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TripleTransit1

If I ran Transit for one day...

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I Thought That You Could Have The X29 Route Run To North/Clark Instead Of Navy Pier.

The only reason given for the X system is that rapid transit was not available. You tell us how rapid transit is not available between 95th and State and North. Didn't the state just put $425 million into that?

See is certainly correct about you.

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Okay, I'll bite (and, I will presume that there would be not outside interference from King Rahm or the College Clowns):

1. Explore the feasibility of limited mid-day service on the Purple Line between Linden and the Loop. There the the chance that such a move would require track upgrades over the Howard Red Line tracks, which is why I said "feasibility" of such a move.

2. Explore the feasibility of a permanent "Brown-age" - all Brown Line trains would be cross-routed to the Orange Line via the loop, or, at a minimum, more regularly scheduled "Brown-age" trains.

3. While I understand the sentiments towards restoring "X" routes, you also have to take into consideration whether or not (1) existing L alternatives exist and (2) whether current street conditions would permit simultaneous "X" lines and local services.

...

1. The announcement that the new Wilson station would have express-local transfer platforms (similar to Belmont), plus various studies indicating that the north side of the Red Line has insufficient capacity compared to the south side indicates that someone is at least thinking about that.

2. That was contemplated by the Circle Line plan. However, the indication in that plan that there would also be a connection between the Brown Line and the Pink Line, plus the boarding statistics indicate that the Brown Line would still be heavy compared to the combination of Orange and Pink. The other issue is that basically other than the Brink, that would eliminate Brown and Orange from Wabash and Lake, necessitating some sort of transfer to the Green. Unless the Loop Shuttle were reinstated, that might be possible at Roosevelt from the Orange and Clinton from the Pink, but instead of waiting for the Brink every 9 minutes instead of a Brownage every 3, not too convenient for Brown. (I am also assuming that the Purple Express mentioned in 1 would go into the State St. Subway, which was also contemplated in the Circle Line plan).

3. TaylorTank: Again, maybe you should read this.

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... Although CTA could easily implement this program by adding a Ventra reader at every exit turnstile and an Addfare machine within the paid zone, this would considerably slow down the exit process during rush hour. That's probably why neither Chicago nor New York have implemented such a system. ...

The San Diego Trolley used a zone-based fare structure for several years, but abandoned it a few years ago. It was an absolute pain in the neck, particularly since they use an honor system. If you decided to ride an extra stop and the Transit Police happened to be checking tickets, you could end up paying a steep fine....

I believe Boston had "pay another quarter" when exiting at a few suburban rapid transit stations. However it (on the Green Line) at least at one time had that you paid double on boarding in the suburbs but the standard fare boarding in the city even if you ended up in the suburbs (apparently no longer, as the map says travel anywhere on the 4 lines for the same price). That isn't much different than the last express fare charged by the CTA that you had to buy an express check in Evanston or Skokie (and I suppose at Howard) if you wanted to ride the Purple Line segment between Howard and Belmont, but not for the return trip.

Your reference to the "transit police" brings up the other common model, which I know is also used in Buffalo (where the downtown is a free fare zone, but you have to buy something to show the Transit Police if you ride north of there). That's no different than my saying that Metra will need some way for the conductor to audit fares. But considering that CTA eliminated conductors, and there isn't enough police to deter crime on the CTA, there certainly isn't the manpower to enforce zone fares (or, I suppose the cost justification for hiring it).

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I believe Boston had "pay another quarter" when exiting at a few suburban rapid transit stations. However it (on the Green Line) at least at one time had that you paid double on boarding in the suburbs but the standard fare boarding in the city even if you ended up in the suburbs (apparently no longer, as the map says travel anywhere on the 4 lines for the same price). That isn't much different than the last express fare charged by the CTA that you had to buy an express check in Evanston or Skokie (and I suppose at Howard) if you wanted to ride the Purple Line segment between Howard and Belmont, but not for the return trip.

The pay another quarter on the MBTA's Red Line applied at Braintree and Quincy Adams until the fare system was revamped around 2007 when the T introduced their Charlie Card smart-card system. The Green Line's fare scheme only applied on the "D" branch to Riverside, as I recall (I don't recall the exact fare structure for that branch off the top of my head).

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The pay another quarter on the MBTA's Red Line applied at Braintree and Quincy Adams until the fare system was revamped around 2007 when the T introduced their Charlie Card smart-card system. The Green Line's fare scheme only applied on the "D" branch to Riverside, as I recall (I don't recall the exact fare structure for that branch off the top of my head).

I was referring to the Riverside train. And, to show how far back my experience went, the normal fare was 25 cents, but the fare to board in Newton was 50 cents. Boston was cheap them, but based on the current fare chart, is the same as CTA.

The other thing I remember is that the operator's "cab" door was open inbound to collect the fares, but closed outbound. That would have been on the Boeing-Vertol LRVs.

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When the Lake St. L was at grade in Oak Park, you had to pay an extra 15¢ to go to the River Forest station that was just a couple of blocks west of Harlem. When it was raised up to the C&NW embankment, Harlem became the end of the line & no more extra fare.

When there was an extra fare to ride the 97 bus in Skokie, if you boarded at the Howard L, you didn't pay until you got off the bus & always at the front door. That's when you gave the transfer to the driver or paid with cash or a token. Once the bus passed Howard/McCormick [the old route was Howard to McCormick, McCormick to Oakton] everyone paid when boarding, along with an extra 15¢.

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...

When there was an extra fare to ride the 97 bus in Skokie, if you boarded at the Howard L, you didn't pay until you got off the bus & always at the front door. That's when you gave the transfer to the driver or paid with cash or a token. Once the bus passed Howard/McCormick [the old route was Howard to McCormick, McCormick to Oakton] everyone paid when boarding, along with an extra 15¢.

Pay as you exit seems to have been frequently used by bus systems with zone fares. For instance, most Rochester (RGRTA-RTS) local buses went through the "Inner Loop" downtown zone on an interline, such as 1 Park and 1 Lake, and the Inner Loop zone was was free, so you were supposed to pay outbound on the way out (i.e., there would be routes such as 1 Park and 1 Lake Ave.). I guess you needed a transfer if you were riding through downtown, and I remember disputes when a driver on the 15 (Dewey-Latta) Express wouldn't take a transfer from the 15 (Norton St.) bus, even though the routes converged only at the transfer point. I see that as a result of opening the downtown transit center, through routing through downtown will be abolished. Also, since they did away with transfers (but bus drivers do sell 1 day passes), riders will now have to pay another fare downtown, but in a technological advance over what's available here, the fare boxes will dispense any kind of pass and give you stored value if you don't have exact change.

On the other hand, in the Albany area (CDTA), the bus driver just asked where you were going when you boarded, and if you said certain suburbs, charged a higher fare.

Rochester also had zone fares on the Park and Ride and Suburban services, but "solved" the situation by abolishing fare zones, including into the adjoining counties.

The issue seems to be either the Albany one of someone saying they were getting off in town, or old the Rochester and 97 one of someone not paying the fare after getting the ride. However, apparently there wasn't too much risk of either.

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@Jajuan: Most likely the reason behind the 120 artics at np deals with putting them exclusively on the #22 and #151, They need those there as sheridan is heavy in the loop and clark is heavy about everywhere. If you think we could use more artics, then that justifies the need for another order. I know on the north side the #80 and #77 could benefit from artics and maybe the #81 too. The #3 could use them and certainly the #9 and #55 so even another 100 artics wouldn't seem ridiculous to me.

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@Jajuan: Most likely the reason behind the 120 artics at np deals with putting them exclusively on the #22 and #151, They need those there as sheridan is heavy in the loop and clark is heavy about everywhere. If you think we could use more artics, then that justifies the need for another order. I know on the north side the #80 and #77 could benefit from artics and maybe the #81 too. The #3 could use them and certainly the #9 and #55 so even another 100 artics wouldn't seem ridiculous to me.

I live just off Clark and a couple miles north of the #9's north terminus. I take both routes almost everyday, and again that is not entirely true of either route. Yes Clark gets heavy for good stretches, but that is mainly in the rush hour periods and when the Cubs are playing home games during baseball season. Outside of those time frames, the D40LFs that are on the route on weekdays mid morning to the late part of PM rush do just fine on that route most of the time. The only thing I would probably change there is assigning a few more there in the PM rush like is done in the earliest to mid part of the AM rush. As for the #9, most riders on that route tend to be those doing quick jumps from one east-west route to another. Few outside of high school students and those using the Clybourn Metra station tend to ride the 9 more than 10 or 15 minute stretches, and any standees encountered dissipate a lot of times within a few blocks. Basically what you have with that route is a lot of passengers boarding but not really staying on the buses of that route long enough to have the long stretches traveled with a lot of standees that tend to justify needed a good number of artics. So not really seeing a need to make a big change to artics except maybe to clear the Lakeview high school students on special school runs that don't currently exist but definitely might need to be arranged. So no I wasn't advocating ordering more artics. The current ones on hand need to be better deployed first before I'd think of buying more. Yes ridership has increased in some spots, but we still have to realize artics can't be everywhere when we're talking about efficient use of resources. Every small pocket of full 40 foot buses isn't always a justification to rush for more artic buses. Some of that can be solved from making sure buses are actually running on time and doing more efficient scheduling. Plus another thing that has to be thought about is just where they're supposed to be stored. An artic's 60 foot length compared to a 40 footer means that every two artics eats up the storage space of three 40 footers. And we all know that all those artics are not going to be operating 24 hours with there only being approximately 15 or so bus routes that still operate over night, and even the busiest of them won't be using an artic bus.

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I would lower the fares at O'Hare train station,

Create a Western/Ashland train route.Starting at Evergreen Plaza and ending at Howard Station.

Going Western to Orange Line,Then going down Ashland to Clark,Then Clark to Howard.

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Pay as you exit seems to have been frequently used by bus systems with zone fares. For instance, most Rochester (RGRTA-RTS) local buses went through the "Inner Loop" downtown zone on an interline, such as 1 Park and 1 Lake, and the Inner Loop zone was was free, so you were supposed to pay outbound on the way out (i.e., there would be routes such as 1 Park and 1 Lake Ave.). I guess you needed a transfer if you were riding through downtown, and I remember disputes when a driver on the 15 (Dewey-Latta) Express wouldn't take a transfer from the 15 (Norton St.) bus, even though the routes converged only at the transfer point. I see that as a result of opening the downtown transit center, through routing through downtown will be abolished. Also, since they did away with transfers (but bus drivers do sell 1 day passes), riders will now have to pay another fare downtown, but in a technological advance over what's available here, the fare boxes will dispense any kind of pass and give you stored value if you don't have exact change.

On SEPTA, the only remaining "pay as you leave" routes are most of the suburban routes which operate out of 69th Street Terminal (the P&W/Norristown High Speed Line; the two trolley routes - 101 Media and 102 Sharon Hill; and 11 suburban bus routes), which was a hold-over from the old Red Arrow Lines operating practice. In Pittsburgh, outbound routes from Downtown are pay as you leave until 7pm on buses and at all times on the "T" light rail system as there is a free fare zone within Downtown Pittsburgh and on the T. I know a few smaller systems in Pennsylvania still have pay as you leave on outbound trips, such as Lancaster (on the county routes only; the "metro" city loops are pay as you board).

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I would keep the fares at O'Hare the same as everywhere else. Also, I would put an end to all the bus shuffling except in extreme emergencies such as a fire or other catastrophe at one of the garages.

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I am making this topic because I am interested in other members' opinions on how the CTA can improve their transit service for the commuters. *Note* These are only ideas of your option, and may not really effect the CTA. So go ahead and post anything you might have.

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I might as well say at least an expansion of the 54th/Cermak Yard to at least make the Pink Line compatible with six cars because having four cars during rush hours makes this line weak as hell.....

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Buy more artics and put those into service. (maybe another 200) Abolish longitudinal seating and find ways to correct existing longitudinal seating arrangements. Mix all rail and bus fleets and get rid of the idea of consolidation, put the newest equipment out in earnest and keep the old junk at the yard or garage.

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How about having the Purple Line run along Lake Shore Drive on the north end of the Lakefront Corridor, & then also running it on the tracks that are currently used by Metra between Randolph/Michigan & 92nd Street in the South Chicago area. Want more details, just ask.

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I might as well say at least an expansion of the 54th/Cermak Yard to at least make the Pink Line compatible with six cars because having four cars during rush hours makes this line weak as hell.....

I agree with that. I mean during all times the Pink Line runs, they only run with 4 cars. They could have at least 6 cars running during weekday rush periods, like the purple & green lines.

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How about having the Purple Line run along Lake Shore Drive on the north end of the Lakefront Corridor, & then also running it on the tracks that are currently used by Metra between Randolph/Michigan & 92nd Street in the South Chicago area. Want more details, just ask.

Yes. I like where this is heading. Continue the details.

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But I think it would good if the CTA had the #92 Foster run to Foster Ave. Beach during the summer. I know that one of the city's most popular beaches next to North Ave. & 31st Street. It seems fair to give Foster beach some bus service too.

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But I think it would good if the CTA had the #92 Foster run to Foster Ave. Beach during the summer. I know that one of the city's most popular beaches next to North Ave. & 31st Street. It seems fair to give Foster beach some bus service too.

I agree.

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Yes. I like where this is heading. Continue the details.

After Howard, the next stop for the Purple Line would be Loyola (transfer to Red Line). The Purple Line would follow its current routing, but dive into the subway after crossing Granville (or Thorndale at least), then make a left hand turn smooth enough for trains to travel 35 mph onto Hollywood, then a smooth 35 mph right hand turn onto Lake Shore Drive in the median and come out of the subway. Trains would then stop at the following stations:

  • Bryn Mawr
  • Foster
  • Lawrence
  • Montrose
  • Irving Park
  • Addison
  • Belmont
  • Fullerton
  • LaSalle Dr. (or North Blvd.)
  • Division
  • Chicago/Michigan
  • Millennium Park (Randolph/Michigan)

Trains would travel mainly at grade (some stations may be elevated) between Bryn Mawr and LaSalle Dr. stations. Trains would then dive into the subway before stopping at Division. The subway would then go under Michigan and stop at Chicago, then join the tracks at Randolph/Michigan. The Purple Line would then follow the tracks currently used by Metra, stopping at the following stations from Millennium Park (Randolph/Michigan) to 92nd:

  • Van Buren
  • Museum Campus
  • 18th
  • McCormick Place
  • 31st (instead of 27th)
  • 47th
  • Hyde Park (5100 S.)
  • 55th
  • 59th
  • 63rd
  • Stony Island
  • Jeffery
  • South Shore (71st/Yates)
  • 75th
  • 79th
  • 83rd
  • 87th
  • 92nd

The south end rail yard would be just south of 87th Street, thus calling it the 87th Rail Yard. You may have to expand the Linden Rail Yard. Make all stations ADA accessible. Have the Purple line trains be 8 cars long during rush hours and 4 cars long at all other times unless longer trains are needed. I'd also have the Purple Line operate 24/7 or at least between 4:30 am and 2:15 am weekdays and 5 am and 2:15 am weekends/holidays. The Purple Line service on Lake Shore Drive would replace all the Lake Shore express routes that run along that drive. The reason why I say 31st instead of 27th is because in the summertime, it can give riders access to 31st Street Beach.

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Get rid of the Loop L & put it in a subway.

From the north, the tracks would have a portal at Cortland St, just like the 1943 tunnels do, but run under Halsted to Chicago Ave, east under Chicago & then under the rarely used C&NW industrial sidings to Orleans, then tunnel under the river to Clinton, so both train stations have direct CTA rail service to Congress & go east to Wabash & then west under Lake. From the west, I'd move the entire Lake St. L to the C&NW ROW to California, then a subway under Lake to join the new Loop subway.

There would be two branches to the south. One would go to the Museum Campus, Soldier Field & McCormick Place & then use the unused parts of the IC Mainline to Kensington, which was the 1960s plan.

The Midway trains would enter from the south leads of Union Station.

I would totally rebuild the North Shore line down the Skokie Valley into Lake County, this time with no grade crossings & raise all the current grade crossings on the Swift.

The Blue Line needs to go at least to Maywood along the abandoned CA&E ROW.

Schaumburg has wanted the Blue extended out to there for at least 15 years, so do that.

Build two new subways starting at Howard, going west, one under Western, all the way south & then east to Kensington

The other under Cicero to Midway & Ford City, with a connection to the O'Hare trains so there would be easy rail service between both airports.

I would build a flyover where the Milwaukee Rd trains & The C&NW [uP] trains meet near Western Ave. The A2 Interlocker there causes huge delays for all trains, especially those going in reverse rush hours.

I would electrify all the commuter lines, except the Heritage Corridor, which currently has just six trains total, three inbound in the morning & three outbound in the evening.

Electrify Amtrak east to Paoli, Penn. where the wire now ends & north to Milwaukee & Minneapolis.

Raise [or lower] every single mainline rail grade crossing in Cook & DuPage Counties, starting with Devon, Lehigh, Caldwell & Central, which is a traffic nightmare during the rush hours.

When purchasing new commuter rail coaches, build them so they can have both low & high level boarding & make all the downtown stations nothing but high level, which will speed up the unloading of the trains, but also eliminate the tripping & falling I've seen several times. I'm totally baffled why the current low platforms are lower than the lowest step on the train cars., as no oversized freights ever run through them.

Get rid of the revolving doors at Olgilvie, which are there to control the air pressure higher up in that ugly building above it & move them to the third floor to make the office workers go through them.

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Buy more artics and put those into service. (maybe another 200) Abolish longitudinal seating and find ways to correct existing longitudinal seating arrangements. Mix all rail and bus fleets and get rid of the idea of consolidation, put the newest equipment out in earnest and keep the old junk at the yard or garage.

I agree. Pretty much buy some previously used artics from New Flyer (if there are any left) and have CCW (Complete Coach Works) rebuild them to meet the 2014 standards.

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Get rid of the Loop L & put it in a subway.

...

I'm just wondering; is this complete fiction, or do you have a source for the $55 billion this would take?

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I might as well say at least an expansion of the 54th/Cermak Yard to at least make the Pink Line compatible with six cars because having four cars during rush hours makes this line weak as hell.....

I agree, within Last month that I took Pink Line during the afternoon rush around 5pm from Quincy to 54th/ Cermak, it was an disaster. They need 6-cars badly during the Rush. I wonder does CTA have been getting numerous of Complaints about that.

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