5000-series - Updates

[Sam92]

Some 2600s are expected to bite the dust with this purchase as well and they expect an increase in 40 cars by the time all cars are delivered

[BusHunter]

Just read it, fares will remain the same along with service levels

If.... and only if the unions agree to big cuts. In a way it's smart giving the problem back to the unions. Sounds like something out of the Daley playbook. This way if they don't agree to it, it looks like it's their fault. But that could also blow up in their face, if the union doesn't agree to the terms. Also during negotiations not all concessions will likely stand, unless the union is weak. If all that is needed to balance budgets were a restructuring why didn't the former Presidents do it? I would be interested to know when the cut off date of this agreement is. If they wait until the last minute there may be hasty cuts not thought out. I still say in the end it will be some concessions some cuts some fare increases.

[sw4400]

I'm reading you guys post and are all writing interesting things about the next moves once the 5000's hit revenue service on the Pink and Green Lines. I also noticed no one has mentioned the 3200 series. So my question is what do you all think happens to them, do the stay on the Brown and Orange Lines? Or what are the possibility of them going to the Blue Line along with the 2600's??

That's been my speculation(at least for the Brown Line). With 162 3200-Series Cars at Kimball Yard, there are enough trainable cars to replace the Blue Line 2200's(132 total) with 30 extra that can be sent to the Purple Line to retire half of the 2400's there(which include the oldest ones, built in 1976). The Brown Line can then be a all 5000-Series Line along with the Pink Line, and makes the most sense in my book, since the Blue Line needs 318 cars to maintain stock as is and the Brown Line and Pink Line only need 162 and 44, respectively, which equals... wait.... 206!!!

[Sam92]

That's been my speculation(at least for the Brown Line). With 162 3200-Series Cars at Kimball Yard, there are enough trainable cars to replace the Blue Line 2200's(132 total) with 30 extra that can be sent to the Purple Line to retire half of the 2400's there(which include the oldest ones, built in 1976). The Brown Line can then be a all 5000-Series Line along with the Pink Line, and makes the most sense in my book, since the Blue Line needs 318 cars to maintain stock as is and the Brown Line and Pink Line only need 162 and 44, respectively, which equals... wait.... 206!!!

Now to figure where the final 500 would end up under that plan. Most likely the Red Line or maybe the Blue for their extra baggage space.

[Busjack]

Now to figure where the final 500 would end up under that plan. Most likely the Red Line or maybe the Blue for their extra baggage space.

None of this speculation is worth anything so long as the man in charge doesn't even know.

The only thing of interest in the budget on this subject is that on page 50 it indicates only a fleet growth of 60 and the crushing of a portion of the 2600s, even though the opposite was indicated a couple of months ago. Also, the budget finally admits that approval to go ahead with the production order was given.

[Sam92]

None of this speculation is worth anything so long as the man in charge doesn't even know.

The only thing of interest in the budget on this subject is that on page 50 it indicates only a fleet growth of 60 and the crushing of a portion of the 2600s, even though the opposite was indicated a couple of months ago. Also, the budget finally admits that approval to go ahead with the production order was given.

So it looks like the 300 fleet increase that I read about was a joke after all

[RJL6000]

That's been my speculation(at least for the Brown Line). With 162 3200-Series Cars at Kimball Yard, there are enough trainable cars to replace the Blue Line 2200's(132 total) with 30 extra that can be sent to the Purple Line to retire half of the 2400's there(which include the oldest ones, built in 1976). The Brown Line can then be a all 5000-Series Line along with the Pink Line, and makes the most sense in my book, since the Blue Line needs 318 cars to maintain stock as is and the Brown Line and Pink Line only need 162 and 44, respectively, which equals... wait.... 206!!!

Maybe that's your wish. But then, you also forgot the Green Line: That line also has some of the very oldest 2400s (the ones that were delivered shortly after the first four 2400s completed their 600-hour revenue service test), as well. In fact, that line has been entirely equipped with 2400s even today (apart from the cars in other series that occasionally find their way onto the Green Line due to equipment shortages).

By the way, the Purple Line actually has the last 2400-series cars built (numbered in the upper 2500s to 2600). However, the Green Line has the last 2400s delivered to the CTA (2493-2500; these differ from the other 2400s numbered in the vicinity of this group of eight in that their interior car numbers as delivered are in the Helvetica typeface like cars 2566-2600 instead of Univers like cars 2401-2492; most of the 2500s have a mixture of both Helvetica and Univers typefaces for the interior car numbers). The last of the 2400s were delivered in 1978.

[sw4400]

Not my wish, but numerically, it does make sense RJL6000. There are 206 in the base with options for up to 400 or 700 more, I believe in this set. When the 206 are delivered to the Pink and Brown Lines(according to my "wish"), the other options can go Green, Blue, Red, wherever at that time, as the 2600's will be just about ready to start retirement. The 3200's on the Brown Line roster, meanwhile can retire the 2200's off and the oldest 2400's which the Purple Line has. Another plus here is the 3200's are trainable with the other stock on these rosters(the 2400's and 2600's). The Pink Line 2600's, which are untrainable with the 5000's can be moved to the Green Line to start replacing the oldest 2400's(44 in stock).

Purple Line:

2401-2410(Boeing-Vertol 1976)(Oldest in Fleet)

2539-2578(Boeing-Vertol 1978)

2581-2600(Boeing-Vertol 1978)

Green Line:

2411-2422(Boeing-Vertol 1976)(Oldest in Fleet)

2449-2468(Boeing-Vertol 1977)

2469-2504*(Boeing-Vertol 1977)

2471-2480(Boeing-Vertol 1977)

2483-2502(Boeing-Vertol 1977)

2505-2508(Boeing-Vertol 1977)

2509-2516(Boeing-Vertol 1978)

2519-2530(Boeing-Vertol 1978)

2531-2482*(Boeing-Vertol 1978-1977)

2533-2538(Boeing-Vertol 1978)

[sw4400]

I'll try to illustrate what the rosters might look like with just the base order, according to my "wish".

Base Order of 206 on CTA Property and In Service

Blue Line

2967-3156(186 Total)

3295-3428(132 Total)

Red Line

No changes with the Base Order

Brown Line

All 5000-Series Roster(162 Total)

Green Line

2457-2538*(86 Total)

3157-3200(44 Total)

*= Mismatched Pair(s) in Roster

Orange Line

No changes with the Base Order

Purple Line

2559-2600(42 Total)

2949-2966(18 Total)

3429-3458(30 Total)

Pink Line

All 5000-Series Roster(44 Total)

Yellow Line

No changes with the Base Order

Whether the CTA replaces the 2200's and 2400's with 5000's or newer-aged stock already on property by moving them over to the lines with the outdated stock, the FTA doesn't care, so long as they are replaced.

[Busjack]

So it looks like the 300 fleet increase that I read about was a joke after all

You got it from the bottom of the 5000s page on chicago-l.org. Apparently what Forrest Claypool reportedly said then doesn't correspond to what he said in the budget.

The Pink Line seems supported by the facts on the ground (i.e. car sightings), but I don't know if I would use chicago-l.org to extrapolate much more beyond that.

[toppdawg12]

How are the coupler contact pins different on the 5000s from those on other cars?

[Sam92]

How are the coupler contact pins different on the 5000s from those on other cars?

They could couple physically but things like lighting or signs etc wouldn't work I think

[toppdawg12]

They could couple physically but things like lighting or signs etc wouldn't work I think

[toppdawg12]

Answer the question if you can, please!

[Sam92]

Answer the question if you can, please!

I did. They aren't different.

[toppdawg12]

My question was inspired by the knowledge of that fact; your answer could apply, perhaps, to the 6000s as well, for they can mechanically couple to the 2000-family cars. Those families of cars have different numbers of contact pins in their electrical couplers. I am asking if the 5000-series cars have a different number(or type) as well, perhaps owing to their being ac-powered.

[Busjack]

My question was inspired by the knowledge of that fact; your answer could apply, perhaps, to the 6000s as well, for they can mechanically couple to the 2000-family cars. Those families of cars have different numbers of contact pins in their electrical couplers. I am asking if the 5000-series cars have a different number(or type) as well, perhaps owing to their being ac-powered.

I'm sure you can go to Bombardier and get a wiring diagram, and there are better odds of you getting one than getting an answer here to a technical question about something under wraps.

[Mr.cta85]

So with the 5000's coming into revenue service on the Pink Line real soon (in like a week or 2) how soon will it be before they are on the Green Line? The begining of next year perhaps??

[sw4400]

I'll try to illustrate what the rosters might look like with the additional 200 now, totaling 406 units, presuming this option gets exercised. Again, if this is how the CTA will move things around(this illustrated roster does fully retire the 2400's and retires the very oldest 2600's built in 1981)...

Base Order of 206 on CTA Property and In Service + 200 additional units

Blue Line

2967-3156(186 Total)

3295-3428(132 Total)

Red Line

2673-2700(28 Total)

2703-2720(18 Total)

2723-2790(68 Total)

2791-2856*(2 Total)

2793-2854(62 Total)

2857-2892(36 Total)

2899-2948(50 Total)

5000's(72 Total)

*= Mismatched Pair(s) in Roster

Brown Line

All 5000-Series Roster(162 Total)

Green Line

5000's(86 Total)

3157-3200(44 Total)

*= Mismatched Pair(s) in Roster

Orange Line

No changes with the Base Order or Option 1

Purple Line

5000's(42 Total)

2949-2966(18 Total)

3429-3458(30 Total)

Pink Line

All 5000-Series Roster(44 Total)

Yellow Line

No changes with the Base Order or Option 1

[RJL6000]

I'll try to illustrate what the rosters might look like with the additional 200 now, totaling 406 units, presuming this option gets exercised. Again, if this is how the CTA will move things around(this illustrated roster does fully retire the 2400's and retires the very oldest 2600's built in 1981)...

Base Order of 206 on CTA Property and In Service + 200 additional units

Blue Line

2967-3156(186 Total)

3295-3428(132 Total)

Red Line

2673-2700(28 Total)

2703-2720(18 Total)

2723-2790(68 Total)

2791-2856*(2 Total)

2793-2854(62 Total)

2857-2892(36 Total)

2899-2948(50 Total)

5000's(72 Total)

*= Mismatched Pair(s) in Roster

Brown Line

All 5000-Series Roster(162 Total)

Green Line

5000's(86 Total)

3157-3200(44 Total)

*= Mismatched Pair(s) in Roster

Orange Line

No changes with the Base Order or Option 1

Purple Line

5000's(42 Total)

2949-2966(18 Total)

3429-3458(30 Total)

Pink Line

All 5000-Series Roster(44 Total)

Yellow Line

No changes with the Base Order or Option 1

Now I know why cars 3441-3456 cannot be assigned to either the Red Line or the Blue Line: Overhead clearance issues in the tunnel between 26th and 31st Streets on the Red Line and the Kimball subway connection from the Milwaukee elevated to the Kennedy Expressway on the Blue Line.

[sw4400]

Now I know why cars 3441-3456 cannot be assigned to either the Red Line or the Blue Line: Overhead clearance issues in the tunnel between 26th and 31st Streets on the Red Line and the Kimball subway connection from the Milwaukee elevated to the Kennedy Expressway on the Blue Line.

A quick trip to Skokie could get those roof boards removed from the tops. The CTA has just been lax in doing it.

[artthouwill]

Took a quick trip by 54th Yard today. There appeared to be a total of 16 5000 series cars, 4 cars on 4 tracks each. The outermost set seemed to move about 10 feet, then returned to its original spot. Then 4 yellowjackets emerged from the train, one carrying a "training car" placard. I was too far away to get car numbers, and the sunlight made it difficult to see if the signage was amber or colored, (My guess is it is still amber destination signs). Also on the innermost track, the first two cars were not attached with the last two cars.

[BusHunter]

Took a quick trip by 54th Yard today. There appeared to be a total of 16 5000 series cars, 4 cars on 4 tracks each. The outermost set seemed to move about 10 feet, then returned to its original spot. Then 4 yellowjackets emerged from the train, one carrying a "training car" placard. I was too far away to get car numbers, and the sunlight made it difficult to see if the signage was amber or colored, (My guess is it is still amber destination signs). Also on the innermost track, the first two cars were not attached with the last two cars.

Yes, the signs are still amber. There's a video of cars being trained on youtube (#5021-22) and you can see they have the same signs.

[Busjack]

Yes, the signs are still amber. There's a video of cars being trained on youtube (#5021-22) and you can see they have the same signs.

Do you have a link to that one?

The only one I found via Google was this, but "NOT IN SERVICE" doesn't prove much. Now if it had been "54/Cermak," that would be different.

[Amtrak41]

Why the Pink ? I understand they want a small isolated line, but so is the Purple, it is near Skokie shops, and once the cars can be trusted to behave themselves, they can confidently scrap cars, they can segway to the Red, bumping the 2600's to the Blue.