CURRENTZ_09 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 We'll i hope the CTA does something for the 2200-series. I would be really disappointed if they just disaappeared and their was no customer interaction with the 2200-series retirement. This could also spark interest to increase service levels for the new 5000-series rail cars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 We'll i hope the CTA does something for the 2200-series. I would be really disappointed if they just disaappeared and their was no customer interaction with the 2200-series retirement. This could also spark interest to increase service levels for the new 5000-series rail cars No. As you can see (if not from the above, from all the adverse news coverage the 5000s have received) nothing is going to spark interest in them from the everyday customer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitowndude84 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Looks like Bombardier is getting business from the BART. They were... *surprise surprise* the LOWEST BIDDER!!! They beat out Alstom, a well known French firm that rebuilt the 2600's for their mid-life overhauls and Hyundai-Rotem, a South Korean Manufacturer. I hope they don't have any problems with their orders if BART accepts the bid and starts production on new railcars for them. Story Yes !!,I can help on this one I live in the SF bay area and this is all over the local news that they are the HIGHEST bidder for the new BART trains But the news anchor also mentioned that a final review has to be made to make sure a certain amount of the parts are made in the USA ahhh........ Around here in California,Issues like this are taken VERY seriously !!!! To prevent any "NABI Lemon" type of nonsense Lets see what happens here in my neck of the woods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I'm more than willing to give the 5000's a chance.... But they gotta be in revenue service uninterrupted for 1 year!!! Thus far, they haven't been in uninterrupted revenue service for even 6 months!!! The older equipment fared better during their introductions with limited time out of service for changes in some equipment(2200's) or retrofitting(2400's). And these are the very railcars these 5000's are supposed to be replacing. How much longer can the 2200's keep going? Some are already retired because they've had it... they can't just do it anymore and needed to be removed from service. The 2400's might have some more life in them because they're just over the 30-year mark, but the 2200's are all over 40 years old!!! This was probably the final year for them, but because of ongoing issues with the 5000's, the CTA is forced to attempt to keep them chugging along, but they are slowly disappearing on their own... 2291-2292 are authorized for retirement 2325-2326 are authorized for retirement 2329-2330 are authorized for retirement 2283-2284 are long-term holds 2345-2346 are long-term holds 2299-2300 are possibly retired Info above credited to BusHunter 2269-2270 are retired Info above credited to artthouwill The cars with the roll signs removed at Rosemont Yard are #2205-06, #2265-66, #2277-78, #2287-88. The other 4 cars at Howard are #2201-02 and #2349-50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Yes !!,I can help on this one I live in the SF bay area and this is all over the local news that they are the HIGHEST bidder for the new BART trains But the news anchor also mentioned that a final review has to be made to make sure a certain amount of the parts are made in the USA ahhh........ Around here in California,Issues like this are taken VERY seriously !!!! To prevent any "NABI Lemon" type of nonsense Lets see what happens here in my neck of the woods Apparently, you aren't from LA County, where they had the stink that Morrison Knudsen was a lower bidder than whatever Japanese car builder got the contract, not that MK was in business much longer than that, and also where they have about 1500 NABIs. The Buy America audit is only to assure that the 60% American content requirement is met to get federal funds, not the quality. Maybe unfortunately, there isn't mandated Altoona testing for trans like there is for buses. I also understand that San Francisco (and Boston) had problems with their Breda LRVs. Was that the case, and has that been cleared up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitowndude84 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Apparently, you aren't from LA County, where they had the stink that Morrison Knudsen was a lower bidder than whatever Japanese car builder got the contract, not that MK was in business much longer than that, and also where they have about 1500 NABIs. The Buy America audit is only to assure that the 60% American content requirement is met to get federal funds, not the quality. Maybe unfortunately, there isn't mandated Altoona testing for trans like there is for buses. I also understand that San Francisco (and Boston) had problems with their Breda LRTs. Was that the case, and has that been cleared up? Ahhh good catch busjack lol Ya I should rephrase it to SF/Bay area NOT California in general.Jeez,God only knows what happens in Los Angeles 1500 NABI's you say ?? I really don't follow L.A transit that much.There is enough "Good stuff" to keep up with here in the San Francisco bay area PCC's,LRV's,ETB's....even some good 'ole '91 D60 artics are put out sometimes during rush hour And I wasn't around or can't recall hearing of any BREDA LRV issues??,But I do know the old Boeing LRVs where TROUBLE I remember riding one as a kid in the 80's and it got stuck in the MUNI METRO tunnel for hours ,But that was decades ago !!.Maybe your confused the Breda LRV's with the Boeing's ?? And also MUNI has some EX-AC Transit Nabi's (same as that "Weird 70's colored" shuttle system for U students lol) and SAMTRANS NABI artics and they have been pretty good buses so far. Back to the news report,Yes I knew it was a "Buy American" reference that she mentioned it at the end of the story. Funny if they only knew what was going on in Chicago with the 5000's ..............hmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busfan2847 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 How long were the North Shore Line cars that ran on the Loop until 1963 ? Early ones were 56'1" x 8'8"; later ones 55'3" x 8'8" over drawbar, However these did not have flat ends like the cta cars but were rounded which meant the length at the side from vestibule corner post to vestibule corner post was around 46'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 The Buy America audit is only to assure that the 60% American content requirement is met to get federal funds, not the quality. It was this same audit that prevented M.A.N from delivering 484 Americanas to the CTA in 1989. While M.A.N had a plant in North Carolina at the time, many of the parts still came in from Munich, Germany. The shells were made here in the U.S, but the Renk Transmission and M.A.N Diesel Engine probably came in from Munich, Germany, among other parts. The CTA didn't even have TMC on their radar when they were looking for a manufacturer in 1989. They were forced to look to them because of the Buy America Act because TMC had over 60% of it's parts made in the U.S. It was this act which ultimately killed M.A.N in the U.S, as less than 60% of their equipment was made here. M.A.N was a popular bus company in the 1980's with Americanas and Articulateds in bus fleets across the U.S. Another thing was the Americans with Disabilities Act requiring all new buses being wheelchair accessible. I don't think this prevented M.A.N from possibly getting the contract for the 484 buses in 1989. The CTA could've had the Americana buses retrofitted with the wheelchair lifts at the front of the bus, like they did with the TMC's, which otherwise would've had them at the rear doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 It was this same audit that prevented M.A.N from delivering 484 Americanas to the CTA in 1989. While M.A.N had a plant in North Carolina at the time, many of the parts still came in from Munich, Germany. The shells were made here in the U.S, but the Renk Transmission and M.A.N Diesel Engine probably came in from Munich, Germany, among other parts. ... No it wasn't. MAN had closed the plant by then. There were also the pre-ADA accessibility protests, as well as the "sole source spec" protests by the other assemblers that delayed awarding the contracts. Also, according to the sticker, a Fiat assembled in Mexico has 15% U.S. content because it has a Chrysler joint venture engine assembled in Michigan. You don't have the MAN audit (and if you do, post it). More totally unfounded speculation on your part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 And I wasn't around or can't recall hearing of any BREDA LRV issues??,But I do know the old Boeing LRVs where TROUBLE I remember riding one as a kid in the 80's and it got stuck in the MUNI METRO tunnel for hours, But that was decades ago !!.Maybe your confused the Breda LRV's with the Boeing's ?? What I know, I know only from the web. However, what I understand is that somehow the combination of being low floor and being too heavy for the streetcar tracks made the Bredas prone to derail. But maybe that was a Boston thing. Apparently Boston didn't like either the Boeings or Bredas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I was wondering about the Voice of the People link on the home page, and it is to Bombardier's response to the Trbune's article. As far as details, it is consistent with the Montreal Gazette, cited earlier, with a bit more embellishment that safety was not at risk, and they exceed Buy America requirements. I'm surprised that it was a Letter to the Editor instead of incorporated into an article, but so be it. Anyway, for those of you with high anxiety (as Mel Brooks put it), either Bombardier meets its representations, or it is up to the CTA's inspectors to assure that it does. But, notwithstanding Bombardier's initial "lack of comment" to Hilkevitch, this does not seem to be a situation like the NABI apologists saying two years into the litigation that CTA had not afforded NABI an opportunity to inspect the vehicle, even though their lawyers could have compelled the inspection using Supreme Court Rule 214. And finally, the statement "We look forward to having your new rail cars back in service in the coming weeks" sure isn't consistent with someone's speculation about the word "retired"in the Gazette story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 And finally, the statement "We look forward to having your new rail cars back in service in the coming weeks" sure isn't consistent with someone's speculation about the word "retired"in the Gazette story. I only quoted directly from the Gazette article, typed up by Francois Shalom and noted by Bombardier Transportation Corporations own Maryanne Roberts, who used the "Retired" word. Montreal Gazette Article And I'll give you the definition of "Retired" straight from merriam-webster.com retired adj Definition of RETIRED 1: secluded <a retired village> 2: withdrawn from one's position or occupation : having concluded one's working or professional career 3: received by or due to one in retirement Dictionary page Apparently Ms. Roberts quote contradicts her superior's, Mr. Raymond Bachant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 And I'll give you the definition of "Retired" straight from merriam-webster.com retired adj Definition of RETIRED 1: secluded <a retired village> 2: withdrawn from one's position or occupation : having concluded one's working or professional career 3: received by or due to one in retirement Apparently you didn't read what you just posted, which doesn't mention anything about transit, or what busfan2847 said about the possible francophone writer, here. Maybe the cars were just secluded at the Skokie shop. If you want to believe that there is a dispute within Bombardier, well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 On the contrary, Busjack... I read your previous post with the voice of the people link which was from the CEO of Bombardier Transportation North America in Saint-Bruno, Quebec, and the article from Maryanne Roberts in the Gazette, which contradicted what her boss, the CEO, wrote. Is that a dispute? Yes!!! Is that a dispute between Bombardier and CTA? Probably not, but when you have one Bombardier member quoting one thing to one paper, and your CEO quoting something else to another paper, that is a dispute. I know my superior would not want me telling a customer they can have a bottle of J.D at $13.99 when he/she says it's $17.99. That is a contradiction of information from a spokesperson and the CEO of the same company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
See Tea Eh Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Since you're so good at quoting the dictionary, how about looking up the word "dispute": 1 a : verbal controversy : debate b : quarrel 2 obsolete : physical combat Can you point to a debate or quarrel between anyone within Bombardier? A mistranslation of a French word with potentially ambiguous meaning into English for an article for a predominantly French speaking market is a completely different thing from quoting a $13.99 price for a $17.99 product. There was nothing in the letter to the editor that contradicted the Gazette article, and if you're hinging your entire argument on the use of the word retired, you should note that the word is that of the reporter, not of the Bombardier spokeswoman (since retired was not used as part of a quotation, we have no idea whether that word was used by the Bombardier representative or not). Bottom line, there's no evidence of a dispute, no contradiction, and one would have to ignore some very obvious explanations for the use of the word "retired" to try and gain any meaning from it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I did a Google Search on the French meaning of the word "Retired", it means the same thing in that dictionary as the English one... to no longer work or serve. I can't post the link from the phone to the site, but the meanings are identical. Google it if you don't believe me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
See Tea Eh Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 "Retired" is not a French word at all. Retirer, on the other hand, means to withdraw. If someone used the French word "retire" in reference to the 5000s, and perhaps forgot to translate that word into its English meaning, or simply mistranslated it, then that would explain a heck of a lot more than your conspiracy theory about debates or quarrels within the Bombardier corporate structure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 "Retired" is not a French word at all. Retirer, on the other hand, means to withdraw. If someone used the French word "retire" in reference to the 5000s, and perhaps forgot to translate that word into its English meaning, or simply mistranslated it, then that would explain a heck of a lot more than your conspiracy theory about debates or quarrels within the Bombardier corporate structure. One time, I got the French CBC service (CBLFT) on cable. The only French I picked up there was "La Soiree du Hockey." Turned out it was "Hockey Night in Canada," but the translation, of course, is "Evening of Hockey." Also, that station was called Radio Canada, even though it was the CBC and on television. Also, the English words of the Canadian National Anthem are different in Montreal than they are in Toronto, and both are different than what they are in Buffalo, N.Y., or Detroit, Michigan. At that time, the transit authority was CTCUM in French, MUCTC in English. Apparently now it is just STM in both languages. Probably all of this is irrelevant to transit, but is shows that people who insist on certainties have a lot to learn about culture up north. Thanks for pointing this out, See. I know my superior would not want me telling a customer they can have a bottle of J.D at $13.99 when he/she says it's $17.99. That is a contradiction of information from a spokesperson and the CEO of the same company. Even you know that's not the case at Jewel. I had one of the coupons for a gimmick liquor deal, but the scanner would not accept it. The checker said, "I can't figure out why." Eventually did get the rum for $9.99 per coupon. Here's another thing you can check out--They sell Jewel branded food at Produce World in Morton Grove, including Wild Harvest and Culinary Circle. Go there and verify it if you think I am kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtrosario Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Does anyone know where the 8(so far) repaired 5000's are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Does anyone know where the 8(so far) repaired 5000's are? Skokie Shops would be the best bet, although there have been reports of 5000's at the 54th St. Yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoNova Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-cta-rail-cars-0323-20120323,0,1438145.story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Looks like the 5000's will resume production next week again. According to the Tribune link above, 16 cars on CTA property have been retrofitted with new parts that were previously defective and possibly dangerous. 38 other cars here(guessing Plattsburgh, NY) will be retrofitted. Eight cars should've been shipped to Chicago now or will be soon, although the 38 that'll be retrofitted won't be here until the end of May, so the 2200's will probably be here until June at the earliest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak41 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Looks like the 5000's will resume production next week again. According to the Tribune link above, 16 cars on CTA property have been retrofitted with new parts that were previously defective and possibly dangerous. 38 other cars here(guessing Plattsburgh, NY) will be retrofitted. Eight cars should've been shipped to Chicago now or will be soon, although the 38 that'll be retrofitted won't be here until the end of May, so the 2200's will probably be here until June at the earliest. Be watching for them coming into town on the tail end of Amtrak 49 from the Roosevelt Road overpass any day now Seriously, aren't these new bearings going to be stess-tested for some number of months in case it happens all over again ? If so, they can't send the 2200's off to the hell for some time yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Looks like the 5000's will resume production next week again. According to the Tribune link above, 16 cars on CTA property have been retrofitted with new parts that were previously defective and possibly dangerous. 38 other cars here(guessing Plattsburgh, NY) will be retrofitted. Eight cars should've been shipped to Chicago now or will be soon, although the 38 that'll be retrofitted won't be here until the end of May, so the 2200's will probably be here until June at the earliest. Sounds to me like the 8 cars were cars completed at Bombardier that have been sitting there since Dec. That explains why I'm seeing new cars sitting on flatbeds at Skokie. (note my post from before pan up) With 16 cars retrofitted, I don't see a reason why they wouldn't press those into service soon. With the Green line #2520's heading to Red, I'm wondering if possibly some retrofitted #5000 cars may be heading to Green soon to fill that void. As far as the #2200's, we'll see if there going to store them or not. With 100 #5000 cars here soon, I don't know how much space would be left for #2200's. (They did store some 5-50's at 61st yard before.) It probably would be good to keep them around just in case and when they put the #2400's into long term storage, then retire the #2200's officially. But the days of riding the #2200's is quickly going to come to an end in a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.cta85 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Well I'm just glad they will resume production on them can't wait to see the 5000's back on the tracks again. But once they start makin they're way back don't you all think they will put them on the pink line again since that line only need 44 rail cars or will they put them on the Green Line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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