600-series Proterra BE40/ZX5 - Updates

[NewFlyerMCI]

22 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Why not just put a charger in a centralized location like at jeff on the layover lane on the north terminal or at midway out by 59th where the layover buses hang out this way all the buses can use them and if they dont charge usually theres a another bus to take while they wait. All big terminals should have a charger.

This was effectively my original suggestion, in terms of starting a small scale rollout of electric buses, although I missed Howard adn @YoungBusLover had valid structural concerns in regards to 95th

[YoungBusLover]

21 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

This was effectively my original suggestion, in terms of starting a small scale rollout of electric buses, although I missed Howard adn @YoungBusLover had valid structural concerns in regards to 95th

Yeah, if it isn't a viable option I wouldn't chance it. I agree with you @NewFlyerMCI and @BusHunter though for the most part.

[chicagocubs6323]

 

[Shannoncvpi]

40 minutes ago, chicagocubs6323 said:

 

Cool video & aw the new buses sqeaking already ???

[Sam92]

On 3/29/2021 at 6:25 PM, Anthony Devera said:

Other places I was thinking of were Howard Station, Devon/Kedzie, Clark/Arthur, Belmont/Halsted, Grand/Nordica, 31st/Komensky, 63rd/Kedzie, Ford City, 79th/Western, 79th/South Shore. Other possible places to put charging stations are termini of busy and frequent routes, such as the 8, 9, 20, 49, and 77.

Those would be the last places I’d expect chargers for a while. The terminals are tight and having to remain in a certain position to charge would make berthing and layovers a pain when those high frequency routes stack 3-4 buses at a time. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

Can anyone speculate on when we might start seeing the proterra's on the 63? Did they ever build a second charger along the line, or was one slated to be built? Without that, I don't think we'd see service start for a while, the 63 is too long for more than one roundtrip run to be had on one charge. I'm still surprised they built a charger at Midway and decided to start with the 63, instead of the west of midway routes (or even the 54B, since Chicago garage has a bus charger)

[Shannoncvpi]

9 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Can anyone speculate on when we might start seeing the proterra's on the 63? Did they ever build a second charger along the line, or was one slated to be built? Without that, I don't think we'd see service start for a while, the 63 is too long for more than one roundtrip run to be had on one charge. I'm still surprised they built a charger at Midway and decided to start with the 63, instead of the west of midway routes (or even the 54B, since Chicago garage has a bus charger)

The 66 is a longer route then the 63 & the 600's seem to be doing just fine on those

[NewFlyerMCI]

Just now, Shannoncvpi said:

The 66 is a longer route then the 63 & the 600's seem to be doing just fine on those

There's a charger at both ends of the route, no bus is doing multiple full-length, round-trip runs on a single charge. That's why I was asking if a second charger was built or planned to be built along the eastern end of the line. And the 63 and 66 are about the same length, the 66 doesn't go as far east as the 63 does, the 63 doesn't go as far west as the 66 does.

[Anthony Devera]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Can anyone speculate on when we might start seeing the proterra's on the 63? Did they ever build a second charger along the line, or was one slated to be built? Without that, I don't think we'd see service start for a while, the 63 is too long for more than one roundtrip run to be had on one charge. I'm still surprised they built a charger at Midway and decided to start with the 63, instead of the west of midway routes (or even the 54B, since Chicago garage has a bus charger)

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the west of Midway routes are interlined with the 59 (or with one another), so the buses are actually running between their western termini and Stony Island. And I believe the 54B doesn't layover at Midway, so it might not make sense to stop and charge in the middle of the route.

I have a hard time imagining how a charger would be placed on the east end of the 63 unless they put a charger on the side of the street, which seems a little strange.

[YoungBusLover]

There is only one charging station at Midway, nothing has been built at 63rd and Stony as far as I'm concerned. The 66 is about 2 miles or so longer than than the 63 unless you merged the 63W then it is longer but that's nor here or there. I strongly believe that one of the 700's will end up at 74th to be used on 63rd before the #600's. I also wouldn't be surprised if a #600 ends up on the 54B only going as far as the  Midway orange line.

[Shannoncvpi]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

There's a charger at both ends of the route, no bus is doing multiple full-length, round-trip runs on a single charge. That's why I was asking if a second charger was built or planned to be built along the eastern end of the line. And the 63 and 66 are about the same length, the 66 doesn't go as far east as the 63 does, the 63 doesn't go as far west as the 66 does.

Aw yea most definitely they be then died in mid route

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, Anthony Devera said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the west of Midway routes are interlined with the 59 (or with one another), so the buses are actually running between their western termini and Stony Island. And I believe the 54B doesn't layover at Midway, so it might not make sense to stop and charge in the middle of the route.

I have a hard time imagining how a charger would be placed on the east end of the 63 unless they put a charger on the side of the street, which seems a little strange.

I had forgotten about that interline, so yes, it wouldn't be immediately available without changing schedules around. However it would be easier to start it on the 54B, and the bus would simply have to layover at Midway, after returning from Ford City, at the end of a SB shift. I imagine drivers might prefer to do that anyway, cause I've seen a bus operator leave the bus at Midway to run to the bathroom more than once. And it doesn't even take 10 mins, maybe just that, to get from 59th to 76th, on the 54B.

Alternatively, as @YoungBusLover said, there could be some Cermak to Midway trips on the 54B (although none are currently built into the schedule)

[YoungBusLover]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I had forgotten about that interline, so yes, it wouldn't be immediately available without changing schedules around. However it would be easier to start it on the 54B, and the bus would simply have to layover at Midway, after returning from Ford City, at the end of a SB shift. I imagine drivers might prefer to do that anyway, cause I've seen a bus operator leave the bus at Midway to run to the bathroom more than once. And it doesn't even take 10 mins, maybe just that, to get from 59th to 76th, on the 54B.

Alternatively, as @YoungBusLover said, there could be some Cermak to Midway trips on the 54B (although none are currently built into the schedule)

It would be the best way to go. Hell, I'll throw in this scenario. Imagine 74th interlining the 54B with maybe a long layover for charging just to do a few trips on the Midway corridor routes before returning back to 74th.

[chicagocubs6323]

6 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

It would be the best way to go. Hell, I'll throw in this scenario. Imagine 74th interlining the 54B with maybe a long layover for charging just to do a few trips on the Midway corridor routes before returning back to 74th.

The instructor on the Proterra told me the next route they'll be on is the 54B.

[BusHunter]

7 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I had forgotten about that interline, so yes, it wouldn't be immediately available without changing schedules around. However it would be easier to start it on the 54B, and the bus would simply have to layover at Midway, after returning from Ford City, at the end of a SB shift. I imagine drivers might prefer to do that anyway, cause I've seen a bus operator leave the bus at Midway to run to the bathroom more than once. And it doesn't even take 10 mins, maybe just that, to get from 59th to 76th, on the 54B.

Alternatively, as @YoungBusLover said, there could be some Cermak to Midway trips on the 54B (although none are currently built into the schedule)

The only thing that's messed up about that is how will the #54B charge in the 63rd bay. See this is where a universal layover spot makes sense. They could always interline with the #63 but that's a whole new garage. 

[artthouwill]

5 hours ago, chicagocubs6323 said:

The instructor on the Proterra told me the next route they'll be on is the 54B.

That is an interesting choice. However, it's not a long route.  I'm not sure if all of those runs are pull in ms and outs, which would make the 54B an excellent choice for testing. I suppose that a midroute layover cou be added to the schedule at Midway Station  but u don't really think it would happen.  Are there any plans to add a charging station at Cermak and  Kenton or 24th and Cicero?  Otherwise,  the 54B could either deadhead to and from C, or interline with the 54 for garage trips or interline with a round trip on the 66 .  BTW, great video of the Proterra in the 66.

[NewFlyerMCI]

4 hours ago, artthouwill said:

That is an interesting choice. However, it's not a long route.  I'm not sure if all of those runs are pull in ms and outs, which would make the 54B an excellent choice for testing. I suppose that a midroute layover cou be added to the schedule at Midway Station  but u don't really think it would happen.  Are there any plans to add a charging station at Cermak and  Kenton or 24th and Cicero?  Otherwise,  the 54B could either deadhead to and from C, or interline with the 54 for garage trips or interline with a round trip on the 66 .  BTW, great video of the Proterra in the 66.

Seeing as Cermak & Kenton is city streets (and also doesn't exist as an intersection, since Kenton doesn't run south of Jackson), I imagine would would have to deadhead.

 

10 hours ago, BusHunter said:

The only thing that's messed up about that is how will the #54B charge in the 63rd bay. See this is where a universal layover spot makes sense. They could always interline with the #63 but that's a whole new garage. 

The 63 could simply switch spots with the 54B. NB 54B takes the charging spot, SB 54B takes the second 63 bay, the 63 gets that entire curb lane to pull up and layover

[chicagocubs6323]

53 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

 

The 63 could simply switch spots with the 54B. NB 54B takes the charging spot, SB 54B takes the second 63 bay, the 63 gets that entire curb lane to pull up and layover

So right now the 63 has two bays at Midway from last time I went there, two weeks ago.  One of them has the charger so I'm assuming that extra 63 spot is open now for just electric buses only.

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Seeing as Cermak & Kenton is city streets (and also doesn't exist as an intersection, since Kenton doesn't run south of Jackson), I imagine would would have to deadhead.

 

The 63 could simply switch spots with the 54B. NB 54B takes the charging spot, SB 54B takes the second 63 bay, the 63 gets that entire curb lane to pull up and layover

Still it doesnt make sense in that Midway is not the terminus of the #54B. The only thing that would make sense is a #63 terminal charger to go out on the #54B north or south but still the bus couldnt stay out long on the 54B. If the #700s were an indication of bus charging hours they wouldnt need to charge anyway only after 12 hours. So far running trippers dont really use the chargers because there is no need. Now with winter temps then you have some real issues with charging. That may be why they are starting now. Would be cool to see the 700s recharge. 

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, chicagocubs6323 said:

So right now the 63 has two bays at Midway from last time I went there, two weeks ago.  One of them has the charger so I'm assuming that extra 63 spot is open now for just electric buses only.

That makes sense.  I don't know for a  fact,  but I was under the impression that 53 would also be a route with electric buses  with a charging statiin on the east end of the route at 63rd Street Beach.  

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, chicagocubs6323 said:

So right now the 63 has two bays at Midway from last time I went there, two weeks ago.  One of them has the charger so I'm assuming that extra 63 spot is open now for just electric buses only.

The way someone explained it to me, the 63 has had two bays for a minute due to it's frequency (although some of the buses end at Kedzie during rush, so it can't be that frequent). Based on that,  I imagine even with an electric bus, buses will continue to use both bays until nearly half or more of the buses assigned to the route are electric. I've seen up to 4 buses waiting to leave on the 63, and they like to line up behind each other.

 

48 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

That makes sense.  I don't know for a  fact,  but I was under the impression that 53 would also be a route with electric buses  with a charging statiin on the east end of the route at 63rd Street Beach.  

That's what I thought as well, to me there was no sense in putting a charger at Midway, for the 63, if they weren't going to build one at Ashland or Stony Island

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Still it doesnt make sense in that Midway is not the terminus of the #54B. The only thing that would make sense is a #63 terminal charger to go out on the #54B north or south but still the bus couldnt stay out long on the 54B. If the #700s were an indication of bus charging hours they wouldnt need to charge anyway only after 12 hours. So far running trippers dont really use the chargers because there is no need. Now with winter temps then you have some real issues with charging. That may be why they are starting now. Would be cool to see the 700s recharge. 

People north of Midway still need access to the commercial corridor on Cicero from 63rd to 76th, especially seeing as the Pace routes make limited stops from 59th to 76th. Ford City as well, since no Pace route outside the 382 directly serves the mall anymore. And, although less common, preserving the connections to the 67 & 79 allow riders from the south side to access portions of the west side with one transfer

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

People north of Midway still need access to the commercial corridor on Cicero from 63rd to 76th, especially seeing as the Pace routes make limited stops from 59th to 76th. Ford City as well, since no Pace route outside the 382 directly serves the mall anymore. And, although less common, preserving the connections to the 67 & 79 allow riders from the south side to access portions of the west side with one transfer

Just talking in terms of electric buses, not the service itself. They may have to spread out the electrics cause if you have bus bunching then someone is not going to have time to charge, but still that can happen to one electric. They just might have to jump buses at the terminal until the buses charge. Like I say winter will put higher demand on the charger they claim batteries lose their effectiveness in the cold at least by 30 percent maybe more. 

[chicagocubs6323]

What I mentioned earlier.  63 has two bays right now.  The one with the charger will most likely be electric buses only.

[NewFlyerMCI]

36 minutes ago, chicagocubs6323 said:

What I mentioned earlier.  63 has two bays right now.  The one with the charger will most likely be electric buses only.

That's probably still not happening until nearly half or more of the buses assigned to the 63 are electric. If service is that frequent to Midway, which apparently it is, since the 63 has had both bays since the last shuffling of routes around there, they aren't going to effectively reduce it to one lane only for a bus that's gonna come around every ~2 hours. I was there when they blocked off that lane for construction of the pantograph, there would be 3 buses lined up behind each other or waiting at the Pace dropoff lane to line up in the 63 bay, and there was more than one occasion where a 63 bus left from the Pace lane because of another bus sitting in Bay C