Random CTA

[Sam92]

Caught this in the advanced timetables section.... Weekend UIC turn backs go away with this new rail pick. As a result the O'Hare Branch sees a reduction from every 7-8 min to every 12 min. Forest Park recieves a slight frequency boost as a trade off. Not sure if mayor Johnson has anything to do with that but I remember him claiming west side supposedly was under served (which I think is more to secure votes cause clearly he doesn't realize that even though Douglas was separated to send more trains to FP; 2012 adjustments proved that just like the Dan Ryan/Howard imbalance, you don't need so many trains out west especially with green not being too far away). Still picking through to see if I can find anything else.

[Shannoncvpi]

4 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Caught this in the advanced timetables section.... Weekend UIC turn backs go away with this new rail pick. As a result the O'Hare Branch sees a reduction from every 7-8 min to every 12 min. Forest Park recieves a slight frequency boost as a trade off. Not sure if mayor Johnson has anything to do with that but I remember him claiming west side supposedly was under served (which I think is more to secure votes cause clearly he doesn't realize that even though Douglas was separated to send more trains to FP; 2012 adjustments proved that just like the Dan Ryan/Howard imbalance, you don't need so many trains out west especially with green not being too far away). Still picking through to see if I can find anything else.

Tbh the Westside is undersevred long wait times etc if you don't do it on one end do it for the whole line cause it's people who ride from FP to downtown up north & ohare which I don't see why people ride from FP to ohare when they can just take the 303 pace from FP to Rosemont then get the blue line it a be much quicker

[Sam92]

Just now, Shannoncvpi said:

Tbh the Westside is undersevred long wait times etc if you don't do it on one end do it for the whole line cause it's people who ride from FP to downtown up north & ohare

I think the long waits are staff related more so underserved. I remember people saying barely enough people to fit a train car were riding on the FP side which is why we had turn backs 

 

 

 

[Tcmetro]

1 hour ago, Sam92 said:

Caught this in the advanced timetables section.... Weekend UIC turn backs go away with this new rail pick. As a result the O'Hare Branch sees a reduction from every 7-8 min to every 12 min. Forest Park recieves a slight frequency boost as a trade off. Not sure if mayor Johnson has anything to do with that but I remember him claiming west side supposedly was under served (which I think is more to secure votes cause clearly he doesn't realize that even though Douglas was separated to send more trains to FP; 2012 adjustments proved that just like the Dan Ryan/Howard imbalance, you don't need so many trains out west especially with green not being too far away). Still picking through to see if I can find anything else.

I noticed that Red is going from 7-8 to 10 mins weekday middays; Orange weekday midday going from 12 to 15 mins; Orange Saturday midday going from 10 to 12 mins. Also seems like they are cutting back the peak service a bit by transitioning to midday or evening frequencies earlier.

It will be interesting to see how well the Blue Line holds up to the new schedule. The tracks are still in really bad condition from IMD to Forest Park so I wouldn't be surprised if the delays from before the line split come up again.

[Sam92]

25 minutes ago, Tcmetro said:

I noticed that Red is going from 7-8 to 10 mins weekday middays; Orange weekday midday going from 12 to 15 mins; Orange Saturday midday going from 10 to 12 mins. Also seems like they are cutting back the peak service a bit by transitioning to midday or evening frequencies earlier.

It will be interesting to see how well the Blue Line holds up to the new schedule. The tracks are still in really bad condition from IMD to Forest Park so I wouldn't be surprised if the delays from before the line split come up again.

Good call. Looks like CTA is following the trend of "not everyone is a 9-5 commuter" and thus transitioning toward a flatter schedule without as heavy of a peak. As far as on time performance for the blue line that depends on if the run times accurately account for slow zones which CTA doesn't do a good job of according to some rail operators 

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, Shannoncvpi said:

Tbh the Westside is undersevred long wait times etc if you don't do it on one end do it for the whole line cause it's people who ride from FP to downtown up north & ohare which I don't see why people ride from FP to ohare when they can just take the 303 pace from FP to Rosemont then get the blue line it a be much quicker

I have to disagree with you fam.  Tho O'Hare branch of the Blue Line is the 2nd busiest branch in the CTA system behind the Howard branch of the Red Line.   Why shouldn't that branch have increased frequencies when that branch clearly has way more riders?  It's bad enough the Forest Park branch is a slow zone, but now you want a lit if people to suffer so the west side can have more empty trains?  Also, the Northwest side doesn't have alternative rail options.   The west side has two with the Green Line and the Pink Line.   Therefore the West side is NOT undeserved.  Add to that the parallel bus routes that also serve downtown like the 7, 126, and the 20.  Add to this the fact that the O'Hare branch of the Blue Line is busy during the day, especially in the rush, in BOTH DIRECTIONS.   The turning of half the trains at UIC provides better service  for the mist riders, and by extension the whole line. 

There are probably two issues going on and I think Brandon Johnson has his hand in both.  The first is political.   He's fanning fires by insinuating that White citizens are getting better service than Black citizens .  He doesn't realize that many Blacks that use the O'Hare branch of the Blue Line for work live on the SOUTH SIDE.  This affects them too 

The second issue is a union issue.   Obviously with more short turns,  it's likely that more runs would originate from Rosemont/O'Hare.   Union reps probably cried foul and wanted more runs to originate from Forest Park because they live closer there and didn't want to travel to the airport to work. 

People only care about what benefits them immediately without considering the big picture.  The moment their circumstances change in the moment they want everything else to adapt.  

I

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, Tcmetro said:

I noticed that Red is going from 7-8 to 10 mins weekday middays; Orange weekday midday going from 12 to 15 mins; Orange Saturday midday going from 10 to 12 mins. Also seems like they are cutting back the peak service a bit by transitioning to midday or evening frequencies earlier.

It will be interesting to see how well the Blue Line holds up to the new schedule. The tracks are still in really bad condition from IMD to Forest Park so I wouldn't be surprised if the delays from before the line split come up again.

To your point about the Blue Line,  I promise you they will..  I'm on board with all of the adjustments except for the elimination of the UIC  short turns.  I believe that was a political decision as Brandon Johnson  made it a political issue while running for mayor.  Funny that he never spoke about the peak direction Red Line service imbalance that favors the North Side .  Bur we all know that the Dan Ryan branch has less riders than the Howard branch . CTA would short turn Reds at Roosevelt if it could.  Evidently they felt that 63rd middle on the Red line and 37th Middle on the Green Line weren't viable options for turning back Red Line trains.  So the south side gets a lit if empty trains in the nonpeak direction.   But Brandon Johnson only cares about his own neighborhood.   Off topic for a quick second  but has anyone else noticed that NONE of these migrant shelters are on the West side  (* Garfield Park,  Lawndale,  Austin )?

[Sam92]

29 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

  Off topic for a quick second  but has anyone else noticed that NONE of these migrant shelters are on the West side  (* Garfield Park,  Lawndale,  Austin )?

Well that's interesting ????

[Sam92]

39 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

CTA would short turn Reds at Roosevelt if it could.  Evidently they felt that 63rd middle on the Red line and 37th Middle on the Green Line weren't viable options for turning back Red Line trains.  So the south side gets a lit if empty trains in the nonpeak direction.   

Yeah Roosevelt would need some type of signal work to make that happen. But it's worth the investment. I'd say transponders would work like on orange and pink lines so you wouldn't have to rebuild the tower for line of sight issues. But again if purple line were to get sent that way you'd have to send the reds to 63rd but again transponders would work. Apparently unlike the old days where you'd have to pick up an identracoil; all 5000s (and I'm assuming all future cars) have the transponders built in and activate based on the run so all you really need to pay for are signal updates, no wasting time picking up transponders in the clerks office etc. I feel it's worth the investment. The imbalance gets worse when Dan Ryan gets extended to 130th without short turns due to efficiency issues. You could use those service hours somewhere else. You could have Howard/Argyle-Garfield Reds if you turn some trains out of 98th at Winnona middle.

[Tcmetro]

One of the other big issues with the Blue Line is that it seems to have more police & ambulance calls than the other lines. When someone is overdosing they have to stop the trains and wait for the paramedics to come give narcan which delays service by 20-30 minutes. Taking a proactive approach to getting the drug users off the trains would be a immense benefit.

They also need to get going on the rest of the Forest Park rebuild. They've been talking about it for a decade now and the construction only actually takes a few months.

[Busjack]

ANOTHER QUESTION: What happened to the Blue Line  topic, such as this one? This has become as random as running an _M104 bus between DEVIN-ASH and STATE-PORK.

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

ANOTHER QUESTION: What happened to the Blue Line  topic, such as this one? This has become as random as running an _M104 bus between DEVIN-ASH and STATE-PORK.

Are you serious?  The post that started the new discussion was about increasing Headways on  the rail lines with the Blue Line losing the UIC short turns.   Only the poor immediately above yours mentions anything about Blue Line needing reconstruction on the Forest Park branch and that's the post you want to harp on?  The easiest thing to do is not respond at all or if you have something to contribute, you can do that in whatever thread you want.   This is a Random Topic. Hence the  name of the thread.  So get over yourself. 

[Busjack]

6 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Are you serious?  The post that started the new discussion was about increasing Headways on  the rail lines with the Blue Line losing the UIC short turns.   Only the poor immediately above yours mentions anything about Blue Line needing reconstruction on the Forest Park branch and that's the post you want to harp on?  The easiest thing to do is not respond at all or if you have something to contribute, you can do that in whatever thread you want.   This is a Random Topic. Hence the  name of the thread.  So get over yourself. 

Yes I'm serious. If nothing else this discussion goes somewhere under CTA RAIL. But I guess you believe everything is RANDOM.

Also, there wouldn't be an issue if the Racine area wasn't being reconstructed.

[Shannoncvpi]

9 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I have to disagree with you fam.  Tho O'Hare branch of the Blue Line is the 2nd busiest branch in the CTA system behind the Howard branch of the Red Line.   Why shouldn't that branch have increased frequencies when that branch clearly has way more riders?  It's bad enough the Forest Park branch is a slow zone, but now you want a lit if people to suffer so the west side can have more empty trains?  Also, the Northwest side doesn't have alternative rail options.   The west side has two with the Green Line and the Pink Line.   Therefore the West side is NOT undeserved.  Add to that the parallel bus routes that also serve downtown like the 7, 126, and the 20.  Add to this the fact that the O'Hare branch of the Blue Line is busy during the day, especially in the rush, in BOTH DIRECTIONS.   The turning of half the trains at UIC provides better service  for the mist riders, and by extension the whole line. 

There are probably two issues going on and I think Brandon Johnson has his hand in both.  The first is political.   He's fanning fires by insinuating that White citizens are getting better service than Black citizens .  He doesn't realize that many Blacks that use the O'Hare branch of the Blue Line for work live on the SOUTH SIDE.  This affects them too 

The second issue is a union issue.   Obviously with more short turns,  it's likely that more runs would originate from Rosemont/O'Hare.   Union reps probably cried foul and wanted more runs to originate from Forest Park because they live closer there and didn't want to travel to the airport to work. 

People only care about what benefits them immediately without considering the big picture.  The moment their circumstances change in the moment they want everything else to adapt.  

I

You know these crooked mfs do things for votes I'm just speaking on what I've seen on the blue a few years ago while on the rails

[Shannoncvpi]

Both NF work buses was out on 63rd today 

[artthouwill]

12 hours ago, Shannoncvpi said:

Tbh the Westside is undersevred long wait times etc if you don't do it on one end do it for the whole line cause it's people who ride from FP to downtown up north & ohare which I don't see why people ride from FP to ohare when they can just take the 303 pace from FP to Rosemont then get the blue line it a be much quicker

 

38 minutes ago, Shannoncvpi said:

You know these crooked mfs do things for votes I'm just speaking on what I've seen on the blue a few years ago while on the rails

Based on your first post, the statement " the west side IS hnderserved'" means presently and not a few years ago.   Even if was a few years ago,  the Forest Park branch ridership was never close to the O'Hare branch ridership.  Back in the day the Blue Line had alternating trains serving Forest Park and 54/Cermak and even then there were some UIC Short Turns sprinkled in.  Forest Park trains weren't full and 54/Cermak trains were virtually empty    That's why the 54/Cermak branch was separated and became the Pink Line. Notice they only run four car consists. CTA realized that they needed higher frequencies on the Blue Line after the Pink Line split, but there weren't enough riders on the Forest Park branch to support the higher frequency along the entire line.  This is why the short turns increased.  It was like running the 54/Cermak branch trains without running the full route. And this was when the FP branch was in good condition.  

Brandon Johnson can do what he wants but he won't be re-elected   He can't run enough Forest Park branch trains for that to happen  

 

[Sam92]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

ANOTHER QUESTION: What happened to the Blue Line  topic, such as this one? This has become as random as running an _M104 bus between DEVIN-ASH and STATE-PORK.

You'd kinda had a point till you recommended posting about a SCHEDULE change in a reconstruction thread ?besides it's rail pick time so usually there'd be a rail pick thread made but since I didnt wanna go through the trouble of setting all that up when I didn't go through the whole changes as others have I settled for this as the closer topic ?

[Sam92]

22 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

 

Based on your first post, the statement " the west side IS hnderserved'" means presently and not a few years ago.   Even if was a few years ago,  the Forest Park branch ridership was never close to the O'Hare branch ridership.  Back in the day the Blue Line had alternating trains serving Forest Park and 54/Cermak and even then there were some UIC Short Turns sprinkled in.  Forest Park trains weren't full and 54/Cermak trains were virtually empty    That's why the 54/Cermak branch was separated and became the Pink Line. Notice they only run four car consists. CTA realized that they needed higher frequencies on the Blue Line after the Pink Line split, but there weren't enough riders on the Forest Park branch to support the higher frequency along the entire line.  This is why the short turns increased.  It was like running the 54/Cermak branch trains without running the full route. And this was when the FP branch was in good condition.  

Brandon Johnson can do what he wants but he won't be re-elected   He can't run enough Forest Park branch trains for that to happen  

 

I thought the same thing when he mentioned blue line needing an increase... Like these mayors need to actually consult CTA and the planning department instead of just making changes that would make them look good. That's part of why we're in this mess now as far as a shortage. Lightfoot thought I was a good idea to force CTA to run as normal Instead of letting them cut routes like pace and metra. Imagine all the extra runs that couldve been redistributed by suspending the LaSalle expresses, the 100, the 30 and some other routes. 

[Shannoncvpi]

12 hours ago, artthouwill said:

 

Based on your first post, the statement " the west side IS hnderserved'" means presently and not a few years ago.   Even if was a few years ago,  the Forest Park branch ridership was never close to the O'Hare branch ridership.  Back in the day the Blue Line had alternating trains serving Forest Park and 54/Cermak and even then there were some UIC Short Turns sprinkled in.  Forest Park trains weren't full and 54/Cermak trains were virtually empty    That's why the 54/Cermak branch was separated and became the Pink Line. Notice they only run four car consists. CTA realized that they needed higher frequencies on the Blue Line after the Pink Line split, but there weren't enough riders on the Forest Park branch to support the higher frequency along the entire line.  This is why the short turns increased.  It was like running the 54/Cermak branch trains without running the full route. And this was when the FP branch was in good condition.  

Brandon Johnson can do what he wants but he won't be re-elected   He can't run enough Forest Park branch trains for that to happen  

 

Yea he's just as crooked as the rest they all only do things that make them look good 

[artthouwill]

13 hours ago, Sam92 said:

I thought the same thing when he mentioned blue line needing an increase... Like these mayors need to actually consult CTA and the planning department instead of just making changes that would make them look good. That's part of why we're in this mess now as far as a shortage. Lightfoot thought I was a good idea to force CTA to run as normal Instead of letting them cut routes like pace and metra. Imagine all the extra runs that couldve been redistributed by suspending the LaSalle expresses, the 100, the 30 and some other routes. 

I don't know if the CTA’S contract with the unions allowed for immediate cuts and suspensions.  Pace at least contracted out mist of the routes it suspended.  With each of their garages having different union representation, and a smaller shop, it may have been easier for them to implement and manage.  

Certainly most TAs tried to run as close to normal service as possible if they received any funding from the Feds  to provide service for essential workers .  The staffing shortages made it impossible to consistently maintain normal service and the unions had to eventually agree to the cuts to adjust for the shortages    

Remember that the airlines didn't furlough anyone involuntary as long as the Feds gave them money during the pandemic ( or should I say no furlough ss a condition of receiving a loan).  Once that money ran out, the cuts began .  Now there's a pilot shortage. 

[Sam92]

1 minute ago, artthouwill said:

I don't know if the CTA’S contract with the unions allowed for immediate cuts and suspensions.  Pace at least contracted out mist of the routes it suspended.  With each of their garages having different union representation, and a smaller shop, it may have been easier for them to implement and manage.  

 

Ok you got me on that but as far as what you said here would that apply to cuts period or cuts/suspensions mid pick? Cause if anything they could've stretched the money a bit further if they strategically cut the fat until waiting for the funds to run out. 

[Busjack]

9 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I don't know if the CTA’S contract with the unions allowed for immediate cuts and suspensions.  Pace at least contracted out mist of the routes it suspended.  With each of their garages having different union representation, and a smaller shop, it may have been easier for them to implement and manage.  

Certainly most TAs tried to run as close to normal service as possible if they received any funding from the Feds  to provide service for essential workers .  The staffing shortages made it impossible to consistently maintain normal service and the unions had to eventually agree to the cuts to adjust for the shortages    

Remember that the airlines didn't furlough anyone involuntary as long as the Feds gave them money during the pandemic ( or should I say no furlough ss a condition of receiving a loan).  Once that money ran out, the cuts began .  Now there's a pilot shortage. 

I don't know what you're talking about, and you don't either. CTA employees have only two unions for operators, ATU 241 for bus and ATU 308 for rail, so the Pace setup is irrelevant. Also, CTA didn't suspend any routes--it cut frequency because of labor shortages (which is its own topic).

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

I don't know what you're talking about, and you don't either. CTA employees have only two unions for operators, ATU 241 for bus and ATU 308 for rail, so the Pace setup is irrelevant. Also, CTA didn't suspend any routes--it cut frequency because of labor shortages (which is its own topic).

That was the point I was making.  Someone else suggested that CTA should have done what Pace did and I just pointed out that Pace basically has a different setup.  

[Sam92]

Thoughts? ?  I personally feel like Carter is catching flack from dealing with former decisions as stated in my response. Disclaimer I'm not out to put this guy on blast I just know there's more people on the know compared to this group lol

[Busjack]

22 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Thoughts? ?  I personally feel like Carter is catching flack from dealing with former decisions as stated in my response. Disclaimer I'm not out to put this guy on blast I just know there's more people on the know compared to this group lol

I don't know who Dannhauser is, and if he is one of the know it all transit advocates, I don't care. If he's Xing without real data, it's meaningless. And, comparing to Chicago, MBTA and WAMTA are reportedly bigger messes.

In some senses, CTA is a mess, but I don't know if it could have done something to prevent all the OOS equipment.  I doubt it could have done anything with the labor shortage, given similar turmoil in the school bus, paratransit, health care, pharmacy, and auto industries.

There were some reports that Brandon Johnson wants him out, but Johnson has more pressing problems. According to the CT Board page, he's short a city director, so he couldn't force it anyway.

In my opinion, Carter is the most competent CTA President in 30 years, but could be more transparent. But I suppose Dannhauser would prefer political hacks such as Kruesi, Huberman, and Claypool, who all eventually reached their Peter Principle level.