Random CTA

[Elkmn]

I wonder what comes after ventra, maybe they'll do the palm scanning thing

[Busjack]

53 minutes ago, Elkmn said:

I wonder what comes after ventra, maybe they'll do the palm scanning thing

There are biometric use laws in Illinois, but from my description of the contract, we won't be alive to know.

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

I'm not sure what Ventra problems you're talking about, but CTA got stuck with a lot of long-term technical contracts* that now it has to work around. To limit it to Ventra, it appeared to be a mistake 12 years ago (I don't think Carter was in charge then), and the fare box procurement was not designed to do what modern fare boxes do, including vending and reading tickets, but to interface with the existing Ventra infrastructure. But Carter didn't say "Choose Scheidt + Bankmann"; the procurement department recommended it, "your Chief Legal Officer" had to say that it was proper to reject the SPX bid, and the CT Board approved the contract. Anyway, Metra was the precipitating cause of the February meltdown.

I'm referring to Dorval & the board's Ventra card taps recently getting FOIA'd, showing how much they use (or rather, don't use) the system, not the malfunctions which are Cubic's fault.

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

You seem more concerned about PR appearances than actually running a transit system. I don't know if you were around when Kruesi and Huberman would stand behind an incoherent Mayor Daley, and then come to the podium and say something asinine, or the time when CTA staged a press conference when Richard Jefferson (ATU 241 president) said "we're going on strike if ..." and the then CTA President said "yes they will."

Not more concerned with (I quite literally said the situation in question is low-hanging fruit), but it is an important part of the job, just look at DC, Baltimore or Boston, where either the mayor and/or GM are actively promoting and/or riding the system. Baltimore had their entire light rail system suddenly collapse and Holly Arnold didn't catch nearly as much flack for that as Dorval did for the Yellow Line shutdown.

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

You also seem to think that "social media" should rule. CTA tried that when Carole Brown started the "Ask Carole" blog and demonstrated in about a week that she didn't know anything about transit (certainly nothing about Metra and Pace), and, in those days, you could flame people, and we flamed her away in about 2 months. That didn't deter her from seeking a sales tax increase while not improving cooperation. Yet, Carter is supposed to quiver in his boots and change his public perception because "transit experts" like @nitro are on X?

Do I think social media should rule, or am I referencing conversations that come up there? By no means should the service planning department be run off Twitter lol, all I said what what folks were talking about and that Dorval is clearly reading some of the stuff people are saying about him. I'm not even sure who @nitro is. That said, public perception of CTA is low right now, and a portion of that is tied to him. It's not crazy to say that efforts to change his public perception might help change the public perception of the agency as a whole.

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

It seems more important for Carter to work on such high level policy issues as that NFI not be a sole source than public perception at a hiring event.

Which is why I said that was low-hanging fruit and that there were more salient things folks could press him on.

[Busjack]

40 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I'm referring to Dorval & the board's Ventra card taps recently getting FOIA'd, showing how much they use (or rather, don't use) the system, not the malfunctions which are Cubic's fault.

Nothing new. Every CTA President and Board Member has had that happen to him or her. I guess you rather have Rahm Emanuel's staged press event of riding the Brown Line ONCE from his Ravenswood home. The public was more interested in whether Chicago was his legal domicile.

The only reason there was flack over the Yellow Line was that it took 7 weeks to get it running--not that Carter wasn't on TV every night. As I noted here, "ICMI: Governor Hochul Announces that essentially nothing happened. A couple of trains bumped, and the vandalized train was taken to the yard. The perfect NYCTA said nothing about the pulled cord, brakes that couldn't be reset, signal or communications problems, lookout, or supervision." If you think CTA should run based on this kind of "up front" Governor, who may or may not control MTA operations, as a Brooklyn acquaintance says "fuggedaboudit."

40 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I'm not even sure who @nitro is.

A NY troll that heard words like "FRA," "transit deserts," "unused right of way," but didn't know anything about Chicago conditions. He started insulting members here, and in that the @ didn't generate a click icon like @NewFlyerMCI just did, I assume the moderators dispatched him. However, as I noted under Transit Punditry, the web is full of them.

If you are just referring to bitching on X, FB, IG, YouTube, etc., there are means to contact CTA, Pace, and Metra, including the public comment form, but experience shows that no one responds to them, so none of them is reacting to social media, either.

I'll also throw out there that Pace's Metzger being concerned about LGBTQ bus wraps and Women's History Month isn't going to get me to O'Hare any faster, but at least she knows how to schmooze up to politicians to get grants.

[YoungBusLover]

21 hours ago, Busjack said:

Then it seems the question is whether there is enough HR staff to handle it. Pace just gave out a Pacesetter Award just for getting Dempster Pulse staffed, and that's only one line.  Similarly, Carter pushed back against the suggestion to make flaggers rail operators without necessary training.

HR has gotten younger from my understanding at 567 over the past few years so the hiring process isn't progressing as fast as it should. However, with the amount of classes that have come in on the Bus side of things, we're pretty much on pace to have a full fleet of operators soon which is probably the reason why CTA has felt confident enough to release that article about returning serivce to several routes to pre pandemic levels for the upcoming Spring Pick. 5 -7 Minute headways are returning to Halsted during the AM/ PM rush periods. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

Nothing new. Every CTA President and Board Member has had that happen to him or her. I guess you rather have Rahm Emanuel's staged press event of riding the Brown Line ONCE from his Ravenswood home.

It's not unreasonable to expect the board & president to at least semi-actively ride the system. It's very far from ideal, but even a staged press event is 1% better than not riding at all.

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

The only reason there was flack over the Yellow Line was that it took 7 weeks to get it running--not that Carter wasn't on TV every night.

No one said he should be on TV every night, but he did catch flack for the how long that shutdown was (which should've been mitigated when he explained some of the reasons they were taking so long, but that didn't stop folks calling for his head)

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

The perfect NYCTA said nothing about the pulled cord, brakes that couldn't be reset, signal or communications problems, lookout, or supervision." If you think CTA should run based on this kind of "up front" Governor, who may or may not control MTA operations,

The MTA? Perfect? Lol. Also, saying the president/gm (of any transit agency) could/should do more to promote the system doesn't mean I support the weird state level control that Albany has over the MTA (although I'm sure some folks are at a point now where they'd love JB to step in, even though he's very liable to do no better)

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

If you are just referring to bitching on X, FB, IG, YouTube, etc., there are means to contact CTA, Pace, and Metra, including the public comment form, but experience shows that no one responds to them, so none of them is reacting to social media, either.

Yes, well, I suppose op-ed's are the only avenue to get his attention now apparently, at least in such a way that he'll respond

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

I'll also throw out there that Pace's Metzger being concerned about LGBTQ bus wraps and Women's History Month isn't going to get me to O'Hare any faster, but at least she knows how to schmooze up to politicians to get grants.

Public perception of Pace isn't nearly as bad as CTA's. At best, their lapses in service don't affect as many people and at worst, their riders are used to average at best service. I'm also willing to bet the same amount of people know Metzger's name now as they did Dorval's pre-pandemic. That said, many do overlook his ability to secure funds and roll out capital programs. Who's to say BLF, RPM & RLS go as smoothly under someone else

[Busjack]

As I should have made clear by now, it seems you are obsessed with perception and appearances rather than reality.

10 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

It's not unreasonable to expect the board & president to at least semi-actively ride the system.

Bus drivers are dependent on the system for their livelihood, but apparently don't ride the bus, either. The only result so far from the acquisition and demolition of adjoining property at Forest Glen was expanding the employee parking lot.

On "calling for his head," only ones who count are the CT Board, unless you are advocating for the Emanuel method of plucking political lackey Claypool to run CTA, having a puppet board authorize it, and then moving him to CPS, where he met his Peter Principle end.

On NYCTA: You can't figure out sarcasm. But Hochul was playing your "social media" game with stuff like ICYMI.

The op-ed may have pissed him off, but didn't change CTA policy, He just explained staff's position to the Board.

On money, I suppose you favored Daley and Huberman blowing $330 million of CTA money on a Block 37 tunnel that had the only effect of closing the accessible State-Washington station. Other than that, I'm sure you have no idea what it takes to get a New Start funded.

But, so long as you think Musk and Zuckerberg host platforms that reflect reality, there's a problem.

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

As I should have made clear by now, it seems you are obsessed with perception and appearances rather than reality.

And as I've repeatedly explained to you, I personally don't think it's the end all, be all, but for many people, perception is reality. Not sure why you're unable to comprehend where I express my own views and where I'm explaining what other members of the public think. I stated more than once that I think some of the things folks criticize Dorval for are low-hanging fruit, or that they're unwilling to acknowledge any good, only the bad. 

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

Bus drivers are dependent on the system for their livelihood, but apparently don't ride the bus, either. The only result so far from the acquisition and demolition of adjoining property at Forest Glen was expanding the employee parking lot.

No one has that same expectation for the front line workers, since they're, y'know, driving the bus.

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

On NYCTA: You can't figure out sarcasm. But Hochul was playing your "social media" game with stuff like ICYMI.

I caught it, which is why I said "lol". That stands for laughing out loud, ICYMI

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

On money, I suppose you favored Daley and Huberman blowing $330 million of CTA money on a Block 37 tunnel that had the only effect of closing the accessible State-Washington station. Other than that, I'm sure you have no idea what it takes to get a New Start funded.

I'm not sure how you arrived here when I quite literally praised his ability to get funding for projects and get them done. "BLF, RPM, RLS are going smoothly under Dorval" "oh, so you liked the block 37 boondoggle & no more Washington Red line?" And it case it's not clear, no, that's not something I favored.

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

But, so long as you think Musk and Zuckerberg host platforms that reflect reality, there's a problem.

There's a lot wrong with Facebook and Twitter (and I'm not even on Facebook) but that doesn't mean there aren't folks that use these platforms to express legitimate grievances with the system. People aren't photoshopping pictures showing crazy headways for trains and buses. And naturally, a lot of that energy is going to be directed at the top

[artthouwill]

46 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

And as I've repeatedly explained to you, I personally don't think it's the end all, be all, but for many people, perception is reality. Not sure why you're unable to comprehend where I express my own views and where I'm explaining what other members of the public think. I stated more than once that I think some of the things folks criticize Dorval for are low-hanging fruit, or that they're unwilling to acknowledge any good, only the bad. 

No one has that same expectation for the front line workers, since they're, y'know, driving the bus.

I caught it, which is why I said "lol". That stands for laughing out loud, ICYMI

I'm not sure how you arrived here when I quite literally praised his ability to get funding for projects and get them done. "BLF, RPM, RLS are going smoothly under Dorval" "oh, so you liked the block 37 boondoggle & no more Washington Red line?" And it case it's not clear, no, that's not something I favored.

There's a lot wrong with Facebook and Twitter (and I'm not even on Facebook) but that doesn't mean there aren't folks that use these platforms to express legitimate grievances with the system. People aren't photoshopping pictures showing crazy headways for trains and buses. And naturally, a lot of that energy is going to be directed at the top

I'll let @Busjack  defend himself,  but I wasn't under the impression that his comments were specifically directed to you other than the reference to WMATA.   There was a comment where he didn't quote anyone.

It's one thing for the public to criticize Dorval Carter,  as he is the face of the CTA.  It's another thing for bus drivers to be making comments about the same thing, especially when they KNOW  that the staffing shortages are due to the drivers and rail operators not showing up for work .  @YoungBusLover just stated that CTA is now staffed enough to restore service to pre pandemic levels for the Spring Pick.  Therefore the only reasons to pull drivers from a route to do another route is either a lack of drivers or a lack of equipment.   The latter is solved by borrowing buses from other garages.  Even with a full staff, extras were built in so that there wouldn't be a shortage due to call offs, vacation reliefs, etc.

I remember years ago when a driver at work didn't want to be at work so he claimed that there was an issue with his bus.  He wanted to put his passengers on the following bus and take his bus to the garage.  Unfortunately for him,  a CTA Supervisor showed up and found another bus that was headed to the garage.  He asked that driver if there were any issues with his bus.  When he responded no. The supervisor told them to swap buses.  The first driver was so angry, but there was nothing he could do about it .  

My point is that it's easier to blame other people than to take accountability or hold your coworkers accountable for their actions. 

[YoungBusLover]

42 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I'll let @Busjack  defend himself,  but I wasn't under the impression that his comments were specifically directed to you other than the reference to WMATA.   There was a comment where he didn't quote anyone.

It's one thing for the public to criticize Dorval Carter,  as he is the face of the CTA.  It's another thing for bus drivers to be making comments about the same thing, especially when they KNOW  that the staffing shortages are due to the drivers and rail operators not showing up for work .  @YoungBusLover just stated that CTA is now staffed enough to restore service to pre pandemic levels for the Spring Pick.  Therefore the only reasons to pull drivers from a route to do another route is either a lack of drivers or a lack of equipment.   The latter is solved by borrowing buses from other garages.  Even with a full staff, extras were built in so that there wouldn't be a shortage due to call offs, vacation reliefs, etc.

I remember years ago when a driver at work didn't want to be at work so he claimed that there was an issue with his bus.  He wanted to put his passengers on the following bus and take his bus to the garage.  Unfortunately for him,  a CTA Supervisor showed up and found another bus that was headed to the garage.  He asked that driver if there were any issues with his bus.  When he responded no. The supervisor told them to swap buses.  The first driver was so angry, but there was nothing he could do about it .  

My point is that it's easier to blame other people than to take accountability or hold your coworkers accountable for their actions. 

Couldn't have explained it any better. It's really apples to oranges no matter how some may want to perceive it. Not to throw my coworkers under the bus but every garage has that small batch of operators that are only here for a check and time off from operating that bus on the regular. I've had numerous operators pull out bad equipment knowingly and then breakdown with it causing delays of serivce or giving me bad equipment without telling me and then I find out at the worse possible time. 😅  Accountability is a hard pill to swallow for some of them. I do agree with both sides though but in reality the public perception of the head man in charge is irrelevant when the public doesn't try at the very least to use the tools given to them to better understand the system they take on the daily. All this technology at our fingertips and yet we can't use a bus or train tracking app or website properly to plan a trip or let alone figure out why the bus/train is delayed. The public doesn't even bother to get text alerts setup for serivce disruptions. The yellow line debacle was handled properly and during its downtime the CTA had to save face whether they to bad P/R or not. Should Mr.Carter been more vocal and seen during that time? Probably but that's not his M/O, at least Kruesi was active at most accident scenes/service disruptions for thr press to interview him. 

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

And as I've repeatedly explained to you, I personally don't think it's the end all, be all, but for many people, perception is reality.

I don't have any use for those people, and since you say you aren't one of them, I don't see why you keep bringing them up. Carter's job is to run a transit system, not "get the heat off him" by pleasing the delusional. That seems to  be Marjorie Taylor Greene's job (but I really shouldn't get into politics here).

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

No one has that same expectation for the front line workers, since they're, y'know, driving the bus.

My orientation is that when my father worked at the Whiting refinery, he bought Standard Oil gasoline (and quit when he was laid off), Purex when he worked for them, and American cars when he worked for Inland Steel (I don't know if he bought Fords because Inland supplied the Chicago Heights stamping plant). Apparently, your impression of CTA drivers is that they do not take pride in their work or fellow employees and believe that CTA is only for folks who make under $39.53/hour. Yet, it apparently means something to the people you cite that Carter doesn't use his Ventra pass, when no prior CTA President or Board Chairman has done so when the media has done this story. I mentioned Emanuel, and bringing this up reminded me of Jane Byrne (and her newspaper husband) moving int Cabrini Green. As WTTW put it "Some called it 'brave,' while others condemned it as a publicity stunt." But it didn't improve conditions. Similarly, even if Carter rode the Green Line every day to work, it wouldn't magically create the 200 rail operators and 200 bus drivers CTA now needs.

On the getting funds point, I may have missed your point.

[Busjack]

8 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

Accountability is a hard pill to swallow for some of them. I do agree with both sides though but in reality the public perception of the head man in charge is irrelevant when the public doesn't try at the very least to use the tools given to them to better understand the system they take on the daily. All this technology at our fingertips and yet we can't use a bus or train tracking app or website properly to plan a trip or let alone figure out why the bus/train is delayed.

There's a couple of things here. I don't know what discipline can be imposed at the garage level, but I'm sure the employees know about the grievance process, and that a section 28 hearing has to be held by the board to discharge or demote an employee.

However, I don't make assumptions about passengers' ability. If (to take the original comment) 28 is supposed to run every 20 minutes, and it is obvious that it isn't, the marginally accurate tracker isn't going to help much (note that @Shannoncvpi 's post obviously reflects that he was using the tracker).

[NewFlyerMCI]

6 hours ago, Busjack said:

I don't have any use for those people, and since you say you aren't one of them, I don't see why you keep bringing them up. Carter's job is to run a transit system, not "get the heat off him" by pleasing the delusional. That seems to  be Marjorie Taylor Greene's job (but I really shouldn't get into politics here).

You not caring for them doesn't change that they're part of the riding public and they're not 100% incorrect about specifically some of the issues they point out and that overall, criticism from that camp is a source of visible frustration for Dorval. On some level, the heat has gotten to him, so other than return to quietly working towards running more buses and trains (which, he is doing), saying he could do something to get the heat off him if he really cares that much shouldn't be crazy

6 hours ago, Busjack said:

Apparently, your impression of CTA drivers is that they do not take pride in their work or fellow employees and believe that CTA is only for folks who make under $39.53/hour. 

Again, not sure how you got here. Drivers, with first-hand experience of the system + more intimate knowledge (of at least the bus network, if not rail as well), don't have the same expectations of "riding" the system than the board, president, c-suite, etc. They already "ride" more than anyone else. 

[Busjack]

17 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

On some level, the heat has gotten to him, so other than return to quietly working towards running more buses and trains (which, he is doing), saying he could do something to get the heat off him if he really cares that much shouldn't be crazy

Only 87% crazy. The only real heat he got was when he didn't show up at the city council. I said he didn't have to, no more than the CT Board could have subpoenaed Ald. Siglo-Lopez (D. Hamas) before it, but the city council had the lever that there is a municipal contribution, and, as was previously reported, Carter got an easy ride the last time.

Yet, while you tried to distance yourself from transit "authorities" such as Citizens' Transit Authority, Commuters Take Action, and every other know it all who has a blog or a social media account, you say it's "not crazy" for him to placate them with some meaningless PR moves. You can't have it both ways.

You want another Brandon Johnson, about whom the Sun-Times just said: "But Mayor Brandon Johnson seems intent on skipping the first part — providing tangible benefit — and heading straight for the letdown. Too often, there's been a new misstep as the mayor and his administration bungle a high-stakes issue, such as the migrant crisis — luckily those "winterized tents" never materialized — and overpaying for a ShotSpotter contract extension." But it said he said he'll keep on campaigning." Probably still placating his base, the same way a certain orange politician does, but not accomplishing anything.

Sorry, it's really 96% crazy.

 

[NewFlyerMCI]

On 3/24/2024 at 10:58 AM, Busjack said:

Yet, while you tried to distance yourself from transit "authorities" such as Citizens' Transit Authority, Commuters Take Action, and every other know it all who has a blog or a social media account, you say it's "not crazy" for him to placate them with some meaningless PR moves. You can't have it both ways.

I didn't say he should in general, I said "if he really cares that much". There's nothing for me to "have both ways", I'm not the target of public ire. 

Also not sure why you made any mention of Hamas, that's not really forum-appropriate w/o any CTA context.

[Elkmn]

I was riding the brown line today and I found a remnant of the old Ogden ROW in Lincoln park. It's always fun hunting down remnants of old ROWs, whether rail or road.

 

 

 

(That's the remnant in the street view photo)

[NewFlyerMCI]

I created a CTA service comparer. I made this a while back based on a similar concept I saw elsewhere, but using the wayback machine to look at old schedules + looking at the current ones, I did a simple buses per hour comparison from roughly 20 years ago today. Of course, a lot has changed, but overall, there's a general decrease in bph, around 20%-30% averaged out. So far, the routes I have are the:

• (J)14
• 22
• 66
• 75
• 78
• 79
• 152
• 156

Parameters:

• I counted the number of departures per hour for weekday service
• I counted from the starting point given in the schedule (i.e. short turns that start mid-route were not counted, such as the 22's departures from Devon or Foster)
• For routes with variable frequency (e.g. every 2-10 minutes), I just averaged out (so every 6) and applied that for the given hours

Highlights (not many thus far, but):

• 66 & 79, the two busiest routes in the city, actually have increases in bus service
• The 22, which is routinely in the bottom half of the top 10, had probably the sharpest drop-off
  • if I counted max frequencies, it'd be the (J)14. That AM peak was a beast
• Again, only a small sample size thus far, but it seems a lot of the dropoff is either a slight loss of midday service, or just a general service reduction across the board
  • Notably, the 79's service is pretty much consistent across the board, while the 66 went from mostly consistent all day, to sacrificing some of that for some peakiness.

If anyone has route requests, please let me know. Avoid anything that has or had an X route though, I'm not quite sure how to incorporate them yet with their local counterpart (except the 21 I guess, since that was a exception)

[Busjack]

14 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I didn't say he should in general, I said "if he really cares that much". There's nothing for me to "have both ways", I'm not the target of public ire. 

 

As Harry Truman said: "If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen." He can apparently take the heat.

Why don't you ask the know it alls you think are the public, but you disclaim associating with [which is on what you are talking both ways]:

• Who better do they have to run the CTA?*
• What are their qualifications?**
• How is that person going to solve the underlying problem any better than the current administration is attempting to do?*** Has your candidate  had better success with solving the labor problem in similar circumstances?

So far you have only asserted that PR stunts will placate the worthless activists' ire.**** That's not an answer to anything.

______________________________________________

*It's been frequently said that one doesn't fire someone unless one has someone better in the wings. In the sports world, the Bears' failure to follow this rule has resulted in them firing coaches every 3 years but still stinking for 20 years. Yet, @Shannoncvpi started this discussion with "there are only 3 buses on 28, so fire Carter."

**As I previously said, prior CTA Presidents were political hacks who met their Murphy's Law end. You think Brandon Johnson has some teachers' union officer who can run the CTA?

***NY MTA, MBTA, WMATA seem to be bigger messes. Maybe you or the activists want to recruit someone from NFTA. Have them publish their list.

****As I indicated before, Johnson's team has faced pushback on many fronts, so he's drawn ire, too, but he thinks PR will overcome it.  Do you really believe that's the answer? It isn't.

Also, I stand by my political characterization. Looks like he's the target of the public's ire, and by your logic, should resign.

[Busjack]

21 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

... using the wayback machine to look at old schedules + looking at the current ones, I did a simple buses per hour comparison from roughly 20 years ago today. Of course, a lot has changed, but overall, there's a general decrease in bph, around 20%-30% averaged out.

I haven't done a scientific analysis, but:

• Claypool  Rodriguez made a 20% cut in bus service around 2010, and his staff mothballed about 300 6000s, reducing the fleet by about 15%., which, except for bringing back X4, X9, and X49, has not been undone. So, that's probably most of it. One also has to take into account that he  Claypool turned over a decent amount of city territory (such as 49A, 56A, 90N) to Pace, giving those areas less frequency.
• However, that was basically a trend. In response to various posts about low frequency, I compared some routes to when I first came to Chicago (late 60s, early 70s, after the Lake-Dan Ryan realignments), and frequencies on such routes as 4, 55, and 155 were down since then 50% in all cases (for instance, 55 was 3-10 minutes; now it's 6-13). In the old days, there wasn't any need for a schedule brochure.

Edited March 27 by Busjack
Corrected per Sam92

[Sam92]

16 hours ago, Busjack said:

I haven't done a scientific analysis, but:

• Claypool made a 20% cut in bus service around 2010, which, except for bringing back X4, X9, and X49, has not been undone. So, that's probably most of it. One also has to take into account that he turned over a decent amount of city territory (such as 49A, 56A, 90N) to Pace, giving those areas less frequency, and his staff mothballed about 300 6000s, reducing the fleet by about 15%.
• However, that was basically a trend. In response to various posts about low frequency, I compared some routes to when I first came to Chicago (late 60s, early 70s, after the Lake-Dan Ryan realignments), and frequencies on such routes as 4, 55, and 155 were down since then 50% in all cases (for instance, 55 was 3-10 minutes; now it's 6-13). In the old days, there wasn't any need for a schedule brochure.

That was Rodriguez who did the 20% cuts but you're spot on otherwise

16 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I created a CTA service comparer. I made this a while back based on a similar concept I saw elsewhere, but using the wayback machine to look at old schedules + looking at the current ones, I did a simple buses per hour comparison from roughly 20 years ago today. Of course, a lot has changed, but overall, there's a general decrease in bph, around 20%-30% averaged out. So far, the routes I have are the:

• (J)14
• 22
• 66
• 75
• 78
• 79
• 152
• 156

Parameters:

• I counted the number of departures per hour for weekday service
• I counted from the starting point given in the schedule (i.e. short turns that start mid-route were not counted, such as the 22's departures from Devon or Foster)
• For routes with variable frequency (e.g. every 2-10 minutes), I just averaged out (so every 6) and applied that for the given hours

Highlights (not many thus far, but):

• 66 & 79, the two busiest routes in the city, actually have increases in bus service
• The 22, which is routinely in the bottom half of the top 10, had probably the sharpest drop-off
  • if I counted max frequencies, it'd be the (J)14. That AM peak was a beast
• Again, only a small sample size thus far, but it seems a lot of the dropoff is either a slight loss of midday service, or just a general service reduction across the board
  • Notably, the 79's service is pretty much consistent across the board, while the 66 went from mostly consistent all day, to sacrificing some of that for some peakiness.

If anyone has route requests, please let me know. Avoid anything that has or had an X route though, I'm not quite sure how to incorporate them yet with their local counterpart (except the 21 I guess, since that was a exception)

Also looking at some old schedules alot of drop off came from cutting reverse off peak service. (14 and 147 deadheading every other bus in the off peak and evenings). 22's drop off might be offset by the Artics that popped up in large numbers on the route around 2009 till now, maybe same for Roosevelt in weekend. I'd say looking at some short turns might help as far as seeing how capacity was affected. 22 looks to somewhat have kept the same capacity by going all artic. 

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, Sam92 said:

That was Rodriguez who did the 20% cuts but you're spot on otherwise

Yep, you are correct (2010 budget release). Somehow, I got responsibility for that confused with the Crowd Reduction Plan.

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, Sam92 said:

... I'd say looking at some short turns might help as far as seeing how capacity was affected. 22 looks to somewhat have kept the same capacity by going all artic. 

Back in the early days of this forum, short turning buses at both ends of a route was considered heresy; now it's common on such routes as 8 and 146. But I argued with @strictures whether the issue on 22 is frequency or capacity, if scheduled buses are not going north of Devon (Clark-Arthur loop; there's a C at the bottom of the schedule for starting at Clark-Arthur, but I don't see it on the schedule or any bus with a Devon time but not a Howard one; there are several trips with an undefined H that start at Irving Park, and I assume come off Halsted, but I don't know).

[Sam92]

20 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Back in the early days of this forum, short turning buses at both ends of a route was considered heresy; now it's common on such routes as 8 and 146. But I argued with @strictures whether the issue on 22 is frequency or capacity, if scheduled buses are not going north of Devon (Clark-Arthur loop; there's a C at the bottom of the schedule for starting at Clark-Arthur, but I don't see it on the schedule or any bus with a Devon time but not a Howard one; there are several trips with an undefined H that start at Irving Park, and I assume come off Halsted, but I don't know).

If you're looking at H on 22's schedule those are starting at Belmont (Clark and Halsted). If I'm not mistaken the Clark and Arthur starts are early in the morning and end there during PM rush . Adding artics to 22 gave CTA an excuse to bump the headways from every 2-3 min to every 5-6. The PM short turn point was Foster at one point then moved to Devon. I think the only short turning going on early in the forum was pretty much 151 and some pull-ins or outs. Before 2010 CTA would run the same amount of service in both directions (14 running every 10 min both ways vs the present 10-12 min one way/18-20 the others). 

[Shannoncvpi]

On 3/25/2024 at 10:37 PM, Busjack said:

As Harry Truman said: "If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen." He can apparently take the heat.

Why don't you ask the know it alls you think are the public, but you disclaim associating with [which is on what you are talking both ways]:

• Who better do they have to run the CTA?*
• What are their qualifications?**
• How is that person going to solve the underlying problem any better than the current administration is attempting to do?*** Has your candidate  had better success with solving the labor problem in similar circumstances?

So far you have only asserted that PR stunts will placate the worthless activists' ire.**** That's not an answer to anything.

______________________________________________

*It's been frequently said that one doesn't fire someone unless one has someone better in the wings. In the sports world, the Bears' failure to follow this rule has resulted in them firing coaches every 3 years but still stinking for 20 years. Yet, @Shannoncvpi started this discussion with "there are only 3 buses on 28, so fire Carter."

**As I previously said, prior CTA Presidents were political hacks who met their Murphy's Law end. You think Brandon Johnson has some teachers' union officer who can run the CTA?

***NY MTA, MBTA, WMATA seem to be bigger messes. Maybe you or the activists want to recruit someone from NFTA. Have them publish their list.

****As I indicated before, Johnson's team has faced pushback on many fronts, so he's drawn ire, too, but he thinks PR will overcome it.  Do you really believe that's the answer? It isn't.

Also, I stand by my political characterization. Looks like he's the target of the public's ire, and by your logic, should resign.

I wasn't saying get rid of him cause it was only 3 buses on the 28 but he needs to go for overall slow hiring process not getting a handle on ghost buses for having enough buses/trains out etc not taking the public seriously it a mix of things things that he can control 

[Busjack]

8 hours ago, Shannoncvpi said:

I wasn't saying get rid of him cause it was only 3 buses on the 28 but he needs to go for overall slow hiring process not getting a handle on ghost buses for having enough buses/trains out etc not taking the public seriously it a mix of things things that he can control 

My response is the same as in what you quoted. It isn't going to get any better just firing him if you can't answer the questions I posed there. As I said before, Carter can't have s-x with his slaves to increase the inventory of workers.  CTA at least has the Meeting the Moment Plan, and noted that

Quote

The first, “Transit Workforce Shortage” (October 2022) issued by the American Public Transportation Association (APTA) – which represents more than 1,500 public- and private-sector organizations in North America – found that:

• 96% of agencies surveyed are having workforce challenges
• 84% of agencies reported that staffing shortages are impacting service

:

Although I don't have any way of verifying it,  CTA claims

Quote

On the bus side, CTA hired 1,000 new bus operators in 2023 to get very close to its optimal staffing levels. CTA will continue to publish its staffing levels—along with many other measures of agency performance—at transitchicago.com/performance.

So, what's your plan? As I indicated, firing Marc Tressman didn't make the Bears any better. Neither did firing John Fox. Trading Justin Fields will work only if Caleb Williams works out.