MTRSP1900-CTA3200 Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 They're still going to have too many inward facing seats on the 7000s as the seats between the platform doors to the motorman's cab will be that way, instead of facing forward/backwards & a set in the middle of the cars will be inward facing, because they refuse to reorient the HVAC return duct to fit under a forward/backward seat. They just can't do them the way the public wants, can they? And they refuse to change the seats on the undelivered cars, despite the hatred for the layout. Total scum running this railroad! Evolving Engineering and technology is harder than you think, given the finite space to put everything. As London Underground knows with their tube stock. No AC at all due to their size and ventilation constraints. The S Stock posted by Chicagopcclcar is better off though, even if the third and fourth rails have to get boosted to 750 volts. Maybe something to improve the 7000 Series seats will come out by 2019. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 .... Maybe something to improve the 7000 Series seats will come out by 2019. There was about 20 years ago, but nothing means that the CTA Rail Engineer has been interested so far. You haven't seen that kind of seats in buses. So, it depends on what the Rail Engineer accepts probably in 2016 (assumed due date for the reissued solicitation). In fact, what has been said so far indicates that the revised seating arrangement announced in the middle of the aborted solicitation hasn't been changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Jazz Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 With the recent re-bid for the 7000-series, CTA better not make the mistake of choosing AnsaldoBreda. Almost all recent AnsaldoBreda customers have had issues with their rail cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 CTA re-bid the contract for two reasons.... Price(more units spread out= cheaper price per car) Railcar Manufacturers(Bombardier bid on the first contract, but CTA pulled away. They might have their eye on another manufacturer). When the CTA stated before the 7900's got a manufacturer that they were wanting to have a spread of fleets. It told me that New Flyer was a good manufacturer, but CTA was looking elsewhere for now. With Nova Bus having past history with CTA from 2000-2002, it was the only manufacturer I could think of to get the bid as NABI will never be trusted by CTA and Orion was a company that the CTA never dealt with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geneking7320 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 CTA re-bid the contract for two reasons.... Price(more units spread out= cheaper price per car) Railcar Manufacturers(Bombardier bid on the first contract, but CTA pulled away. They might have their eye on another manufacturer). When the CTA stated before the 7900's got a manufacturer that they were wanting to have a spread of fleets. It told me that New Flyer was a good manufacturer, but CTA was looking elsewhere for now. With Nova Bus having past history with CTA from 2000-2002, it was the only manufacturer I could think of to get the bid as NABI will never be trusted by CTA and Orion was a company that the CTA never dealt with. Quick aside: With NABI swallowed by NF and Orion gone, it appears that the remaining transit bus manufacturers [with U.S. plants] are El Dorado, Gillig, New Flyer and Nova. How will CTA be affected if all 4 do not bid on their contracts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Jazz Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Quick aside:With NABI swallowed by NF and Orion gone, it appears that the remaining transit bus manufacturers [with U.S. plants] areEl Dorado, Gillig, New Flyer and Nova. How will CTA be affected if all 4 do not bid on their contracts?Does Gillig ever actually bid on CTA contracts? It seems that historically Gillig tends to avoid the largest TAs and focus mostly on small- to medium-sized TAs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Quick aside: With NABI swallowed by NF and Orion gone, it appears that the remaining transit bus manufacturers [with U.S. plants] are El Dorado, Gillig, New Flyer and Nova. How will CTA be affected if all 4 do not bid on their contracts? Probably the same when the only two assemblers were whoever assembled the RTS and Flxible, which were sold several times, then foreigners came in and foreigners left. That's sort of what happens when an industry is dependent on the government, and government funding isn't a priority. Has anyone heard of big federal projects around here once the stimulus was over? I'm also pretty sure that 2 assemblers are not in Plattsburgh because of the vast reservoir of skilled labor there, as opposed to it being near their Quebec operations. Nova was in, out, and back in again, so one has to wonder about their staying ability (other than having sewed up the Quebec provincial contract). Let's not forget East New York, who was convinced that Millennium would win the contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 CTA re-bid the contract for two reasons.... Price(more units spread out= cheaper price per car) Railcar Manufacturers(Bombardier bid on the first contract, but CTA pulled away. They might have their eye on another manufacturer). When the CTA stated before the 7900's got a manufacturer that they were wanting to have a spread of fleets. It told me that New Flyer was a good manufacturer, but CTA was looking elsewhere for now. With Nova Bus having past history with CTA from 2000-2002, it was the only manufacturer I could think of to get the bid as NABI will never be trusted by CTA and Orion was a company that the CTA never dealt with. Indications are CTA pulled away from the first bid after Bombardier was the low bidder the first time around because of Bombardier submitting a design with a seating arrangement a lot like that of the 5000s after CTA had already promised riders in the middle of the bidding process that they wouldn't accept cars of the next series that had bowling alley seats. Since Bombardier submitted designs with that seating arrangement again anyway, CTA decided to cancel the first solicitations and restart the bid process from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 Indications are CTA pulled away from the first bid after Bombardier was the low bidder the first time around because of Bombardier submitting a design with a seating arrangement a lot like that of the 5000s after CTA had already promised riders in the middle of the bidding process that they wouldn't accept cars of the next series that had bowling alley seats. Since Bombardier submitted designs with that seating arrangement again anyway, CTA decided to cancel the first solicitations and restart the bid process from scratch. Is there any evidence of that, since CTA announced that the 7000s would have a different arrangement (Press Release; see also Tribune, CTA Tattler). In that unsuccessful bids are not subject to FOIA (as typified by someone suing to get the unsuccessful bids on the open standards fare system), how would you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 Is there any evidence of that, since CTA announced that the 7000s would have a different arrangement (Press Release; see also Tribune, CTA Tattler). In that unsuccessful bids are not subject to FOIA (as typified by someone suing to get the unsuccessful bids on the open standards fare system), how would you know? Why don't you ask the persons who previous mentioned it if you're so gung ho for evidence Mr Detective? This particular post seems to suggest Bombardier didn't move very much from the 5000 seating design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 Why don't you ask the persons who previous mentioned it if you're so gung ho for evidence Mr Detective? This particular post seems to suggest Bombardier didn't move very much from the 5000 seating design. As far as I can tell, that post was referring to revised seating plan, as reflected in the Press Release, not anyone who claimed to have seen Bombardier's proposal. Note the "still" and "as the seats between the platform doors to the motorman's cab will be that way, instead of facing forward/backwards" in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 It's just my opinion here, but I think CTA asked Bombardier to change the seating specs to try and please it's customers and they refused making CTA the fall guy. The rebid of the contract does seem like it does have something to do with that and I say Jajuan is probably on the right track in his thinking. Remember CTA said "they wanted a car that was different than the #5000's". Sometimes the devil is in the details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 It's just my opinion here, but I think CTA asked Bombardier to change the seating specs to try and please it's customers and they refused making CTA the fall guy. The rebid of the contract does seem like it does have something to do with that and I say Jajuan is probably on the right track in his thinking. Remember CTA said "they wanted a car that was different than the #5000's". Sometimes the devil is in the details. Then why.... They published a different seating layout? They said the cars didn't have to be able to train with 5000s? The seating layout would not have affected that. If in fact Bombardier refused, why didn't CTA just throw out their bid as nonresponsive and award the contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Hilkevitch has a column that the revised 7000s solicitation is up, and it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strictures Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Hilkevitch has a column that the revised 7000s solicitation is up, and it is. I'm really baffled why they won't require electrical compatibility with the 5000s. If it limits the number of manufacturers, so what. Any increase in costs from that will be lessened by being able to electrically couple 5000s & 7000s in the same train, thus causing it to be easier to make up trains in the yards. They'll also be able to have a seating mixture, so there won't be a train of all 5000s & their rotten, narrow seats. I remember when the CTA insisted the 2400s couldn't be coupled to the 2200s, but in the Blizzard of 79, that's exactly what they did & continued doing that until the retirement of the 2200s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briman94 Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I'm reading through the RFP...the spec says there will only be two sets of marker lights on the ends of the trains as opposed to the four sets on the current series. The outer ones will be red (tail lights) and the inner ones will be one set of multicolored LEDs that will change color instead of separate sets of lights that are fixed color. That will definitely help differentiate this series with the 5000s.Also notable is that there will be full LCD screens on the inside to replace the LED maps in the 5000s. It sounds like they will animate to show the train's progress along the line and the stations left until the terminal. The interior destination signs are probably going to be colored, too. Can't wait to see that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 I'm reading through the RFP...the spec says there will only be two sets of marker lights on the ends of the trains as opposed to the four sets on the current series. The outer ones will be red (tail lights) and the inner ones will be one set of multicolored LEDs that will change color instead of separate sets of lights that are fixed color. That will definitely help differentiate this series with the 5000s. Also notable is that there will be full LCD screens on the inside to replace the LED maps in the 5000s. It sounds like they will animate to show the train's progress along the line and the stations left until the terminal. The interior destination signs are probably going to be colored, too. Can't wait to see that! Compared to the last 7000s spec, the first is new, the second is not. However, if you want an analogy to the first, the marker lights on the 6000s and similar series were a single bulb with a color wheel in front of it. There was a knob on the inside of the car to rotate the wheel, and a passenger in the front seat could get to the knob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briman94 Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 a passenger in the front seat could get to the knob.Well that seems like it could be potentially problematic..."Hm. I really want this Brown Line to actually be a Green Line. *flips color wheel from red to green*"Of course the lines weren't colored back then, but you get the point :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briman94 Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 How about the door spec? The new RFP states that in addition to sliding pocket doors, other types of sliding doors would be accepted, like "plug" doors (whatever those are) or external sliding doors (similar to the ones on the O'Hare people mover trains). That would be interesting to see a new type of door on the CTA, for the first time in over 30 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 How about the door spec? The new RFP states that in addition to sliding pocket doors, other types of sliding doors would be accepted, like "plug" doors (whatever those are) or external sliding doors (similar to the ones on the O'Hare people mover trains). That would be interesting to see a new type of door on the CTA, for the first time in over 30 years. Plug door would still be a door sliding on the outside of the vehicle, but not as far out as the parallelogram door (such as on the Pace 6377-91 buses). More interesting is that alternatives are to be presented for the air conditioner (roof or under car) and brakes (pneumatic disc or drum, I guess so that someone we know can operate them). But the freakiest thing I found so far is on page 311 that the #1 side coupler shall be mechanically coupleable with Form 5 couplers through the use of an adapter.Also, it says on page 314 that adapters are to be provided to allow pulling or pushing in the event of an emergency by coupling to the Form 5 couplers used on other series of CTA cars. That means that aside from electrical compatibility, the possibility exists that they won't be mechanically compatible.The only requirement is that they couple to other 7000 series cars without damage. Apparently, CTA is willing to go back to the 1920s, when the various underlying companies had different couplers (CERA 115, page 220). I got bored, so I'll get back to this later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geneking7320 Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 I have not looked at the specs but I hope CTA does NOT revise the door specs to allow more doors on the 7000s. As I have said earlier, I think the current PATH car is 50 feet long with 3 doorways per side. My fear is we would end up with cattle cars with next to no seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 I have not looked at the specs but I hope CTA does NOT revise the door specs to allow more doors on the 7000s. As I have said earlier, I think the current PATH car is 50 feet long with 3 doorways per side. My fear is we would end up with cattle cars with next to no seats. All the references are to drawing DR-1A, starting on page 588. The seating is as indicated in news reports that they would have some cross seats and some longitudinal ones in the cab end. Dimensions are the same as before (48', page 265). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 How about the door spec? The new RFP states that in addition to sliding pocket doors, other types of sliding doors would be accepted, like "plug" doors (whatever those are) or external sliding doors (similar to the ones on the O'Hare people mover trains). That would be interesting to see a new type of door on the CTA, for the first time in over 30 years. To clarify things, this is under "DOOR OPERATOR" page 333. There is a YouTube of a sliding plug door here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 After reading the 600 some pages, the other two things that may be new are: Provision for the berthing system, apparently the same as first discussed here. A per car passenger counting system. I guess they are tired of estimating cross platform transfers while inflating the Ridership Report. Wonder if it will count multiple times if the car is packed and people standing in the door well have to exit to let others exit, and then reboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTRSP1900-CTA3200 Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 ...The new RFP states that in addition to sliding pocket doors, other types of sliding doors would be accepted, like "plug" doors (whatever those are) or external sliding doors (similar to the ones on the O'Hare people mover trains)... Here are examples of each type of door, all from trains in Hong Kong. First links are interior views, while second links are exterior views. Plug doors, used on the (K-Stock)(A-Stock). External sliding doors, used on the (M-Stock)(C-Stock). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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