And the next garage to get New Flyers is...

[trainman8119]

No New Flyers at 103. They are getting Kedzie's 6000's

See post on New Flyers and read through.

[rmadisonwi]

Does 103rd have any New Flyers? Wikipedia says that they are there.

They didn't as of the roster that was issued yesterday. The highest New Flyer shown was 1407, and that was at Chicago Garage.

[Busjack]

At the bottom of the Sun-Times story on Bustracker was the following:

In other action Monday, the board declined to vote on a set of contracts for roughly $155 million that would have authorized the CTA to purchase the last 400 of 1,050 new buses.

The need for clarification on the contracts’ terms was one reason for the deferral. CTA Chairwoman Carole Brown said uncertainty over the agency’s long-term funding outlook was another.

Now if CTA intends to exercise the final option in the near future, I will withdraw my comments about how its management has ignored its own service standards in the allocations to Archer, Chicago, and maybe 77th. However, if it does not pull the trigger, will it be moving buses from Archer to 74th? Me bets not.

[cta5658]

The CTA Exercised The Option For 400 Additional NewFlyer Buses

[Busjack]

We knew that last Thursday. (See the home page.)

[cta5658]

I Know I've Asked This Too many times before but will 103 get the new flyers

[RJL6000]

I Know I've Asked This Too many times before but will 103 get the new flyers

With the entire order of 1,030 New Flyer D40LF buses either delivered or on-order, all eight of CTA's garages will have large numbers of the new buses by the time the delivery of the buses is complete. The only garages not currently having any New Flyers at all whatsoever are 103rd, 74th and Forest Glen. And the North Park garage has a few of the 1###-series New Flyers, but not a large number of them yet.

[qwantae]

As of now, it's one of the "go to" givers. Since the Flexs are getting shifted to 103rd garage. Archer gave them there Flexs until the 1000s arrived. Does that count as a "go to"? But I do agree with you, but since the Flexs(or the remainder of them)are gone, I have seen less breakdowns since the past years.

I hope those TMCs get scrapped soon! They always appear when I want a 1000!

Come on, TMC are my buses and i love them very much, They are RTSes and they are the most popular standard buses for about 30 years now. I really hope that they'll keep them for little bit longer.

[qwantae]

The CTA Exercised The Option For 400 Additional NewFlyer Buses

I think that they should cancel the last 400 order o fNew Flyers, 600 of them is enough to me, Instead of last 400 order of New Flyers, they should place an order of Millenium Transit (RTS Legend) buses like New Jersey and New York. I really hate to see TMCs (4400) to retire, they are my favorites.

[CircleSeven]

Even Though I really loved the TMC's when CTA first bought them in 1990-1991 around that time, I really hate them now. They are just junk now right after they added the Air Conditioning and the heating to get rid of the windows in the back. Now speaking of windows in the back, the TMC 4900s never had the lifts and the aisle were narrow and they had more seats. I really missed those. I will be very shocked that almost every garage will get these newer buses but I wouldn't want to cancel the final option for 400 more buses. I will be so happy when they get rid of all of the TMCs. Here's what CTA should do though when they get rid of all of the TMCs and the Flxible 5300s:

All of the 6000 Flxibles should be at 74th Garage. Move the rest of the 6000s series buses from Forest Glen and move it south to 74th so the Glen can get all of the New Flyers as well. All of the rest of the 6000s should be at 103rd.

North Park need at least the majority of them because they do carry the most TMCs in the system. All of the rest of the Garages can fully get the New Flyer buses. But more in likely All of the garages would end of getting those buses including 74th.

[rmadisonwi]

I think that they should cancel the last 400 order o fNew Flyers, 600 of them is enough to me, Instead of last 400 order of New Flyers, they should place an order of Millenium Transit (RTS Legend) buses like New Jersey and New York. I really hate to see TMCs (4400) to retire, they are my favorites.

Okay. We get it. You love the RTS and hate the New Flyers. But do you really have to say that a million times, flooding half the threads in this forum with that?

[Busjack]

All of the 6000 Flxibles should be at 74th Garage. Move the rest of the 6000s series buses from Forest Glen and move it south to 74th so the Glen can get all of the New Flyers as well.

74th already has about 140 6000s out of approximately 205 total. What do you (and CTA management up to this point, until such time as we see how the final two options play out) have against 74th getting any new buses? Or the riders on the South Side (served by 74th and 103rd)?

I say let 74th get its allocation of about 110 New Flyers, and let 77th get any overflow of 6000s from 74th and Forest Glen, since it appears that 77th abuses its buses the most. More than likely, any extra 6000s or overflow from Forest Glen would go to 103rd, in that, other than the articulateds (which are another type of junk, according to many), nearly all that 103rd is running is old junk, including castoffs from Archer and Kedzie.

[RIPTA42]

Instead of last 400 order of New Flyers, they should place an order of Millenium Transit (RTS Legend) buses like New Jersey and New York.

New York hasn't ordered Millenium RTSes, and New Jersey isn't happy with theirs.

[busangel]

New York hasn't ordered Millenium RTSes, and New Jersey isn't happy with theirs.

103rd deserves flyers badly more than any other garage. Remember 103rd still has 5300s, so how long will it take before those 50 5300s are gone!

[Busjack]

FYI: The presentation in support of the exercise of the last two options indicates that buses 1630-2029 would be received between Feb 08 and Feb 09, depending on when New Flyer can schedule production (page 8).

[qwantae]

Don't rule out the possibility of 74th getting new buses and having their TMC's shifting to

North Park and keeping that garage a TMC haven. Remember, they got a good majority

of the last Americana's before they retired those (replaced with low-floor NABI's). And

althought it would make sense to pacify those who have been displaced by the poor

planning of the Brown Line work, it seems as though old equipment will find it's way

to fill any void (remember the Green Line work...all old stuff, Americana's and old

MAN artics ran a lot of that shuttle work). I am not saying that 74th will in fact get

New Flyers...just don't assume that North Park will get them first.

Yeah, why should NP get those New Flyers while they already got those 5800 rehabbed New Flyers, if 74th gets new flyers, then NP might as well transfer those 5800 series to 74th, then NP gets the new ones. I dont think retiring TMC isnt a good idea because they are good buses with rehabbed and new better A/Cs.

[ryanbytes]

Yeah, why should NP get those New Flyers while they already got those 5800 rehabbed New Flyers, if 74th gets new flyers, then NP might as well transfer those 5800 series to 74th, then NP gets the new ones. I dont think retiring TMC isnt a good idea because they are good buses with rehabbed and new better A/Cs.

Man alive those Flyers are crap. Pure crap. If that's how they are after a rehab I can't imagine what they were like before. I sometimes wonder if the New Flyers will have the same fate with squealing belts, breakdowns, and panels about ready to fall from the ad spaces. If I see a TMC I'm a happy camper. If I see a Flyer I know I'm in for an interesting ride.

[qwantae]

Even Though I really loved the TMC's when CTA first bought them in 1990-1991 around that time, I really hate them now. They are just junk now right after they added the Air Conditioning and the heating to get rid of the windows in the back. Now speaking of windows in the back, the TMC 4900s never had the lifts and the aisle were narrow and they had more seats. I really missed those. I will be very shocked that almost every garage will get these newer buses but I wouldn't want to cancel the final option for 400 more buses. I will be so happy when they get rid of all of the TMCs. Here's what CTA should do though when they get rid of all of the TMCs and the Flxible 5300s:

All of the 6000 Flxibles should be at 74th Garage. Move the rest of the 6000s series buses from Forest Glen and move it south to 74th so the Glen can get all of the New Flyers as well. All of the rest of the 6000s should be at 103rd.

North Park need at least the majority of them because they do carry the most TMCs in the system. All of the rest of the Garages can fully get the New Flyer buses. But more in likely All of the garages would end of getting those buses including 74th.

I do have a feeling now that Forest Glen will be next to get New buses then move those 6000s to one of South side garages or Chicago, but what buses did replaced 6000s from Kedzie Garage?

[trainman8119]

I do have a feeling now that Forest Glen will be next to get New buses then move those 6000s to one of South side garages or Chicago, but what buses did replaced 6000s from Kedzie Garage?

Forest Glen will not be the next to get New Flyers. They had their whole garage redone when they received over 100 Novas and got the newer Flxibles (6000-6100) within the last year and a half or so. North Park will get their share of New Flyers after Chicago gets their balance. They have the most TMC's and they are the next to go after the Flxibles. 74th has newer Flxibles along with the TMC's. 103 has older Flxibles. It is possible that 74th might get Flyers before 103 since they have no low floors and 103 at least has the NABI's. Forest Glen should be last to get New Flyers, if they ever get them. Your guess is as good as mine. This has been discussed in forum after forum, and from the start, this has been a crap shoot as to where these things are going. I can say, the CTA has done a half way decent job in distributing these buses evenly throughout the city...being north some, south some, and west some. It seems as though wherever you go, you have a decent chance of passing one of these buses on the street.

To say TMC's are good is far from the truth. They are old, tired and adding the a/c to them has not helped. Maintenance has been poor. The rebuilding of these has not seemed to prolong their life...more like put them on life support. The TMC's, although I sort of like them, have not been good to the CTA from day one when the lift order was screwed up. It has been downhill from there. They have always had a poor transmission and have not been the most comfortable buses to ride on. Redesigning the lift for the front door has left gaps there (the doors never close right). The best thing about these buses is that when they arrived in town, they looked sharp. Now they are falling apart and look horrible.

As far as I am concerned, the New Flyers are the best buses the CTA has purchased since the last GMC fishbowls strolled the streets of Chicago. Strictly opinion, you can have yours..but frankly, I like em.

[RJL6000]

...but what buses did replaced 6000s from Kedzie Garage?

AFAIK, mostly more old, soon-to-be-retired junk (such as the 4400-series TMCs). Also, a few of the lower-numbered New Flyers from 77th were transferred to Kedzie.

[rmadisonwi]

Also, a few of the lower-numbered New Flyers from 77th were transferred to Kedzie.

Not recently (as in, since the 6000s were shipped out). Early on in the delivery of 1000s to 77th, some got swapped around between there and Kedzie (IIRC, with about four or five of Kedzie's 1000s being sent to Archer to clean out the last few Flxibles at that garage).

Some of 77th's 1000s (11, to be exact) were transferred to North Park, however.

The last set of moves, besides being to accommodate the extra service for three-track, was also to redistribute the buses equipped with automatic passenger counters throughout the system. Since Kedzie already had 100 or so New Flyers (all equipped with APCs), the 6000s (some of which were equipped with counters) were sent to 103rd and Forest Glen, which had a smaller percentage of buses with that equipment.

As new buses are delivered, that becomes less of an issue, as all new equipment will have passenger counters. However, when the APCs were first implemented system-wide, only a handful of the existing fleet (about half of NP's 5800s, and about 10% of the Novas and Flxibles) were retrofitted.

[RIPTA42]

Yeah, why should NP get those New Flyers while they already got those 5800 rehabbed New Flyers

Parts compatibility and driver familiarity?

[CircleSeven]

74th already has about 140 6000s out of approximately 205 total. What do you (and CTA management up to this point, until such time as we see how the final two options play out) have against 74th getting any new buses? Or the riders on the South Side (served by 74th and 103rd)?

I say let 74th get its allocation of about 110 New Flyers, and let 77th get any overflow of 6000s from 74th and Forest Glen, since it appears that 77th abuses its buses the most. More than likely, any extra 6000s or overflow from Forest Glen would go to 103rd, in that, other than the articulateds (which are another type of junk, according to many), nearly all that 103rd is running is old junk, including castoffs from Archer and Kedzie.

First of all, I have nothing against having those New Flyers at 74th. But I will tell you this though. The reason why I stated that 74th should have a one-model bus garage is because they carried those buses since the building's inception in 1995. Also, Nine of their bus routes carried which is the only garage that doesn't have routes carrying downtown, the Seven of those Nine carries the most heaviest routes in the south side. Those TMCs at 74th also are the slowest ones in the system as well. So why shouldn't they have their entire fleet with Flxible 6000s and replace all of those god-awful TMCs. And like I said if they playout the final options, they will have all of the garages getting the New Flyer Treatment. Now 77th is not the only bus garage that doesn't take care of their buses. Look at Kedzie way before they received them Nabi's in 2004 and look at 103rd now. They both has some wraggety buses including the soon to be defunct Flx-5300s which I think the only garage that kept those buses in the state of good repair was Archer which took the last of those buses. I believe Forest Glen should be next to get them and move the Flx-6000s south and I mean way south. 74th should get them to fill up their fleet and 103rd should get the rest replacing the old Flxs and those no-good TMCs. It's no question that 77th will absolutely get more of those New Flyers and Kedzie & Chicago will get more by the end of the year. This is only my prediction.

[Busjack]

First of all, I have nothing against having those New Flyers at 74th.

Your position then is inconsistent. 74th has at most 60 or so TMCs (and about 140 Flxibles). Forest Glen has about 130 Flxibles. 74th couldn't absorb them as there is, and the only result of making 74th a one type garage is to saddle it with equipment that, according to the New Flyer presentation "even after award of options, CTA will still have 400 buses with an average age of 14 yrs. (page 11 of 12)" while Archer and Chicago now have virtually all new fleets. Despite your logo, it seems as though you must work for Dick Winston. While I said I would retract my criticism of CTA if the first of approximately the 1650 range were allocated to the 103rd and 74th, I certainly would not if your recommendation were accepted. I agree with trainman's post that "our guess is as good as mine. This has been discussed in forum after forum, and from the start, this has been a crap shoot as to where these things are going." I don't agree with trainman with "I can say, the CTA has done a half way decent job in distributing these buses evenly throughout the city...being north some, south some, and west some. It seems as though wherever you go, you have a decent chance of passing one of these buses on the street." At the moment, not if you live near Halsted, Ashland, 55th, 63rd, 67th, or virtually anywhere south of 95th.

As CTA also (somewhat disingenuously) says, your plan would probably get them a suit under the "federal Title VI guidelines that ensure minority routes are not disproportionately impacted and Environmental Justice analyses regarding impacts on populations that are below the poverty level." Yeah, give the south side only 14 year old buses, many of which have not been rehabbed.

[trainman8119]

I guess what I was trying to say when stating there was a good distribution, you have some north, south, and west and that the coverage is decent. All eggs are not in one basket. Archer covers some south and southwest, Chicago west and some northwest, Kedzie downtown and west, 77th south. It is not a perfect placement, but not all that bad, compared to how things were done in the past (it seemed everything at one time went through 77th or Archer).

As for the 5300 Flxibles at Kedzie. Remember that those buses got trashed at Forest Glen. The Glen went from one of the better mechanical garages in the city to one of the worst. I am keeping my eye on the Novas there to see how they hold up and are maintained. Forest Glen was a garage that at one time had a lot of pride in their maintenance. Then an article in the Sun Times (whenever the Flxibles were somewhat new) outlined how the pride was shattered with the gang bangers etching windows and graffitiing interiors. They have never been the same since....and neither were the 5500 and 5600's that were there. I think the 5300's that spent a good part of their lives at 103 are in much better shape than the 5500's that were at Forest Glen. That doesn't say too much and at this point, doesn't make much of a difference, since retirement is soon.