Service beyond SP2025 (was: March 25 System Pick)

[artthouwill]

49 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Well yeah I get that part but the fact but keep in mind 52A isnt frequent like the 53A. For the warehouse workers getting on the bus from say 76th.... there's no loss of frequency since the extended 53 would be running on the same 8 min headway that the 53a maintains for someone going north of the orange line. Even if you take out the 79th to Orange trips the 53A is still gonna have a bus every 8 min so technically this extension is doing the job that the 53A shorts were doing. I think the existing 53A would be more frequent north of the orange line otherwise 

If this works out the way you laid it out,  that would lead me to believe that C would handle the extended 53 alone and possibly C gives up the 37 and 157.

[Sam92]

47 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

If this works out the way you laid it out,  that would lead me to believe that C would handle the extended 53 alone and possibly C gives up the 37 and 157.

Same cause they try to avoid sharing if possible. With K's downtown demand not being what it once was on the 130s they might take back 12 as well. Bringing things AM/PM service balance into play I wouldn't be surprised if 120/121/125 has some changes as far as who's handling them and when cause less service on commuter focused routes means some garages aren't being utilized as much as they used to like K as mentioned, NP to an extent but they did pick up K's 151 work

[artthouwill]

49 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Same cause they try to avoid sharing if possible. With K's downtown demand not being what it once was on the 130s they might take back 12 as well. Bringing things AM/PM service balance into play I wouldn't be surprised if 120/121/125 has some changes as far as who's handling them and when cause less service on commuter focused routes means some garages aren't being utilized as much as they used to like K as mentioned, NP to an extent but they did pick up K's 151 work

12 is and has been a K route.  I know C helped out on the route which didn't make sense to me because K was helping out on the 66 also.  But C certainly could give up the 12s that it does.

U would like K to pick up the 50 and maybe North Park could add short turns to the 22 or 36.  Or maybe K could do those short turns.

[NewFlyerMCI]

On 3/4/2025 at 11:11 AM, YoungBusLover said:

The 53 will be getting an extension to Ford City while the 53A will get cut to the orange line. The 82 will more than likely takeover the terminal for the 53/53A at Komensky/31st. The 52 has also been rumored to get an extension to Roger's Park (Devon/Kedzie).

All I wanted was 53 to Devon/Kedzie and 53 to Pulaski Orange, and I suppose at least one of these is becoming real, although not in the way I imagined.

The 52 getting extended instead of the 94 is interesting, if true, especially b/c of the points Busjack made. Also, wouldn't Devon/Kedzie be West Ridge?

[Busjack]

11 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

The 52 getting extended instead of the 94 is interesting, if true, especially b/c of the points Busjack made. Also, wouldn't Devon/Kedzie be West Ridge?

• There isn't a clear path on California around the river. That's why there is the 93.
• Yes

[artthouwill]

9 minutes ago, Busjack said:

• There isn't a clear path on California around the river. That's why there is the 93.
• Yes

Given this context I can see the plausibility of extending the 52 but I still wonder how much that will affect the 82.

[Busjack]

I'm somewhat surprised that while there was an announcement for the Frequent Network there isn't anything official on any of the above. It may happen, and it would be 2 weeks out, but restructuring Pulaski seems more transformative than just making sure 8 routes run every 10 minutes.

[$100KBusoperator]

On 3/4/2025 at 10:11 AM, YoungBusLover said:

With the system pick looming for the summer, a lot of rumblings about route extensions and new creations have been gaining traction around the system lately with one being confirmed to be true. The 53 will be getting an extension to Ford City while the 53A will get cut to the orange line. The 82 will more than likely takeover the terminal for the 53/53A at Komensky/31st. The 52 has also been rumored to get an extension to Roger's Park (Devon/Kedzie). There is also a possibility that the Charter service that Northwestern has may get taken over by the CTA with several new peak AM/PM routes that run similar to the 120/121. The System Pick has been long overdue for Bus operations so hopefully with normal service coming in full strength things will pan out well. 

I wonder how true this is because another operator told me this today

[renardo870]

On 3/4/2025 at 10:11 AM, YoungBusLover said:

With the system pick looming for the summer, a lot of rumblings about route extensions and new creations have been gaining traction around the system lately with one being confirmed to be true. The 53 will be getting an extension to Ford City while the 53A will get cut to the orange line. The 82 will more than likely takeover the terminal for the 53/53A at Komensky/31st. The 52 has also been rumored to get an extension to Roger's Park (Devon/Kedzie). There is also a possibility that the Charter service that Northwestern has may get taken over by the CTA with several new peak AM/PM routes that run similar to the 120/121. The System Pick has been long overdue for Bus operations so hopefully with normal service coming in full strength things will pan out well. 

I'm surprised that the 53A would be cut at Pulaski/Orange Line instead of being extended to Pulaski/Pink Line Station. 53 Pulaski from Peterson to Ford City would be long like Ashland or Western. Maybe the 53 should go as far as the Orange Line and the 53A should be routed via Ford City going NB to Pulaski/Pink and SB to 111th.

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, renardo870 said:

I'm surprised that the 53A would be cut at Pulaski/Orange Line instead of being extended to Pulaski/Pink Line Station. 53 Pulaski from Peterson to Ford City would be long like Ashland or Western. Maybe the 53 should go as far as the Orange Line and the 53A should be routed via Ford City going NB to Pulaski/Pink and SB to 111th.

I think even though there's transfer activity that cta is working to accommodate with this extension of 53; historically South Pulaski was ridership was always strongest with riders to the orange line (probably why the Limited ended there) so it makes more sense to end that there and let the Mainline handle riders going further north. South of Ford City is basically the burbs so that demographic is probably has like 3 times as many people going downtown or through downtown than to factories. 

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, renardo870 said:

I'm surprised that the 53A would be cut at Pulaski/Orange Line instead of being extended to Pulaski/Pink Line Station. 53 Pulaski from Peterson to Ford City would be long like Ashland or Western. Maybe the 53 should go as far as the Orange Line and the 53A should be routed via Ford City going NB to Pulaski/Pink and SB to 111th.

I don't think Ed Burkeville (Archer-Pulaski) has that much cross commerce with La Vilita, but maybe the former neighborhood has changed.

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

2 hours ago, renardo870 said:

I'm surprised that the 53A would be cut at Pulaski/Orange Line instead of being extended to Pulaski/Pink Line Station. 53 Pulaski from Peterson to Ford City would be long like Ashland or Western. Maybe the 53 should go as far as the Orange Line and the 53A should be routed via Ford City going NB to Pulaski/Pink and SB to 111th.

I don’t get why the 53A doesn’t run to 115th on weekends

[artthouwill]

9 minutes ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

I don’t get why the 53A doesn’t run to 115th on weekends

Apparently there's no ridership to justify service.  Mt Greenwood residents will choose the Metra Rock Island, abd Oak Lawn, Evergreen Park, and Hometown residents aren't using Pulaski to get to the Orange Line on weekends   

[Adam Hubbard]

When will these route changes will go into effect? Also, which routes from the existing garages will be shared or change completely prior to the next upcoming pick?

[andrethebusman]

Only thing I would say is run 53 to 81st not 76h & Kostner (far corner of Ford City parking lot). Certainly is need from north of 31st to South of 31st service. 31st is connecting point only because there were no street south of 33rd when streetcar line was built around 1900. I can see 53A becoming 51st to 115th as there is likely little south of 81st to north of 51st business.

[andrethebusman]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Apparently there's no ridership to justify service.  Mt Greenwood residents will choose the Metra Rock Island, abd Oak Lawn, Evergreen Park, and Hometown residents aren't using Pulaski to get to the Orange Line on weekends   

Actually a "historical" reason. 53A used to run to 111th all week, then school trips were extended to 115th and Keeler, then all day weekday only to 115th. When school kicked out CTA, cut back weekday to 111th, but some folks in Alsip and Garden Homes kicked a fuss, so weekdays were extended to 115th again.

[andrethebusman]

On 3/4/2025 at 5:15 PM, YoungBusLover said:

Yeah that rumor was a more little far fetched than the other stuff I heard about but I wouldn't be surprised if got extended to at least Logan Square. 

 

 

 

 

52 to Logan would be good. North of there traffic problems become hideous, but I could see via Kedzie, Bryn Mawr, Kimball to Mall, and kill off Kimball north of Belmont?

[YoungBusLover]

14 hours ago, $100KBusoperator said:

I wonder how true this is because another operator told me this today

The union has confirmed it to be true and the tentative start date would be around the Fall pick after the system pick takes place this summer.

[Sam92]

11 hours ago, Adam Hubbard said:

When will these route changes will go into effect? Also, which routes from the existing garages will be shared or change completely prior to the next upcoming pick?

Summer pick it seems

[Sam92]

8 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

Only thing I would say is run 53 to 81st not 76h & Kostner (far corner of Ford City parking lot). Certainly is need from north of 31st to South of 31st service. 31st is connecting point only because there were no street south of 33rd when streetcar line was built around 1900. I can see 53A becoming 51st to 115th as there is likely little south of 81st to north of 51st business.

Ford city has the room to store all the buses that would be laying over. It's probably gonna be like 3-5 buses on layover between routes with a route that long and the residents probably wouldn't like that compared to the few pullouts for 53A and 79 bogan trippers that they currently deal with

[artthouwill]

If I am not mistaken,  wasn't the 94 extension ( and 52 truncation) a pilot?  I don't know if this change was made permanent.   If it is still a pilot, maybe CTA is * or will) considering reverting back to the old routing and extend from there. But they could just as easily extend the 94 from there now.   I just can't see CTA extending the 52 even up to Logan Square with the 82 being so close. 

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

If I am not mistaken,  wasn't the 94 extension ( and 52 truncation) a pilot?  I don't know if this change was made permanent.   If it is still a pilot, maybe CTA is * or will) considering reverting back to the old routing and extend from there. But they could just as easily extend the 94 from there now.   I just can't see CTA extending the 52 even up to Logan Square with the 82 being so close. 

Any change CTA (and now Pace) now does is an experiment, so they don't have to hold a hearing before instituting or terminating it. A search of Ordinances for "California" shows that you are correct on the first 2 ordinances: 020-002: "An ordinance authorizing the realignment of bus routes #52 Kedzie /California and #94 South California as a one-year pilot" and 021-035 "An ordinance authorizing an additional experiment for the realignment of bus routes #52 Kedzie/California and #94 South California." However, Ordinance 022-015 "authoriz[ed] the permanent adoption of realigned bus routes #52 Kedzie and #94 California," so it's now permanent.

[artthouwill]

4 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Any change CTA (and now Pace) now does is an experiment, so they don't have to hold a hearing before instituting or terminating it. A search of Ordinances for "California" shows that you are correct on the first 2 ordinances: 020-002: "An ordinance authorizing the realignment of bus routes #52 Kedzie /California and #94 South California as a one-year pilot" and 021-035 "An ordinance authorizing an additional experiment for the realignment of bus routes #52 Kedzie/California and #94 South California." However, Ordinance 022-015 "authoriz[ed] the permanent adoption of realigned bus routes #52 Kedzie and #94 California," so it's now permanent.

Thanks. 

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

If I am not mistaken,  wasn't the 94 extension ( and 52 truncation) a pilot?  I don't know if this change was made permanent.   If it is still a pilot, maybe CTA is * or will) considering reverting back to the old routing and extend from there. But they could just as easily extend the 94 from there now.   I just can't see CTA extending the 52 even up to Logan Square with the 82 being so close. 

 

11 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

52 to Logan would be good. North of there traffic problems become hideous, but I could see via Kedzie, Bryn Mawr, Kimball to Mall, and kill off Kimball north of Belmont?

I agree one route has to go if something gets extended to reduce over serving and andre might be on to something with shorting 82 to do so since south of Belmont is heavy itself. That might be a key in speeding service from this point by connecting routes with freer flowing traffic to each other and shortening dense busier routes 

[sht6131]

6 hours ago, Sam92 said:

 

I agree one route has to go if something gets extended to reduce over serving and andre might be on to something with shorting 82 to do so since south of Belmont is heavy itself. That might be a key in speeding service from this point by connecting routes with freer flowing traffic to each other and shortening dense busier routes