6000-series Flxible - Retirements

[sw4400]

Here's a checklist of getting these these buses up and running for service again if they do return(about as likely as the Cubs winning the World Series this year)... This is most things I can think of, although I'm probably missing a few items.

-New Commercial Batteries: $200.00/ea

-Fresh Motor Oil: These buses take a lot more than 5 quarts of Motor Oil, and oil is over $100.00/barrel right now.

-Fresh Diesel Fuel: Large tanks and Diesel price was locked in the $4.00 range I believe by the CTA a few years ago. Fuel starts to varnish if left without running for a long time, resulting in hard starting buses or buses that won't start at all

-Air Brakes: System needs to be purged and checked. Parts might need to be replaced

-Commercial Fuel Filters: Clogged fuel filters will make the bus run very rough, or not at all.

-Bus Tires: Tires could have flat spots and will most likely need to be replaced.

-Transmission: Bus sits for an extended period, tranny might become seized up requiring repair of seized components or replacement transmission.

-Hoses: After a period of sitting without running, the hoses could start to deteriorate requiring replacement.

-Belts & Pulleys: Belts could start deteriorating and pulleys could be seized or seizing, requiring replacement.

-Exhaust: Pipes and muffler could start getting rusty from sitting, making for a very noisy bus. Those in that condition will need to be replaced in order to avoid being cited for noise pollution.

-Wheelchair Lifts: These need to be functional since 100% of CTA Bus routes are now accessible, according to the displays I see on NOVA's on occasion. Sitting without being used probably seized the motors, requiring replacement. Wheelchair Ramps are easier maintenance.

Added all together to get these 12 or so buses that are parked at various garages throughout the system, and you're talking thousands of dollars for what??? Twelve 18-year old buses that will be used occasionally??? That's a waste of money, not to mention all the complaints CTA will be getting from Seniors who are mobility-challenged expecting a low-floor bus that can kneel down to make boarding easier, instead they have to climb three steps up and three steps down.

I don't see the Flxibles returning... if anything, how about the original New Flyer 5800-Series Buses??? They're low floor and they kneel, like the current fleet. If you're going to bring back an 18-year old bus for "occasional" use, here's a series that matches up with the NOVA LFS and current New Flyer in everything except age. If any of these buses are sitting around saved from the shredder, they would make more sense. I know the CFD has one. Will the New Flyers have to go through this same checklist? Yes, but they're probably in a much better shape, plus you don't need to worry about a failed Wheelchair Lift, as the ramp can be pulled down and pushed up if it fails(that's most likely what that strap is for on it).

[BusHunter]

Some of the Nova's don't kneel anymore. I actually came across someone who refused service because of it. One rider actually couldn't believe this was true, (the bus don't kneel) but it is.

[Busjack]

Some of the Nova's don't kneel anymore. I actually came across someone who refused service because of it. One rider actually couldn't believe this was true, (the bus don't kneel) but it is.

The real question is that, even if the bus doesn't kneel, can the driver still flip the ramp?

[sw4400]

The real question is that, even if the bus doesn't kneel, can the driver still flip the ramp?

I know that this was asked in another thread, as I rode one of the NOVA's with a non-functional kneeler(#6755)

[Kevin]

Anyone want to buy a 6000?

[Busjack]

Anyone want to buy a 6000?

Apparently one of 5750's Fire buses, but the description is incorrect.

[Guest]

Apparently one of 5750's Fire buses, but the description is incorrect.

This is a surprise! This also explains why there were two CTA wreckers waiting at the City shops where the buses were stored about three weeks ago. I guess CFD will not be going forward with their plans to use these buses. I did confirm that the CFD does have another ex5800 New Flyer. I spotted it at the Academy the other day.

I will be going by the Fire Academy tomm. morning. If its there, I will try to get the number. Its marked with CFD decals but no CFD number assigned to it.

[sw4400]

Sounds like your buying a shell of a bus here, as the auction description indicates...

Auction #711123 1994 Flxible Passenger Bus

First Offer: $100.00

Current Price: $3,050.00

Description

Year: 1994

Make: Flxible

Model: Passenger Bus(or as we know it, Metro)

Mileage: 540,158(that's actually low mileage for a 18-year old bus. I expected the mileage to be more like 750,000 or more)

VIN: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX928

Running Condition: UNKNOWN

Engine: Diesel(It's #6165, so it's a Detroit Diesel-I can't copy the engine pic to show here, but check that out and you'll see the barcode.)

Transmission: Automatic(ZF Transmission)

NOTE: Duplicate Title; Passenger Side Front and Side Rear Access Doors

Driver Operated Public Address System

(This Vehicle May Be Missing Some Parts Or Have Other Unidentified Issues)

Condition: POOR

Sounds like this bus probably has the traditional Flyer treatment, seized up engine and transmission to prevent use.

[Busjack]

Sounds like your buying a shell of a bus here, as the auction description indicates...

...

Sounds like this bus probably has the traditional Flyer treatment, seized up engine and transmission to prevent use.

Unlike the CTA proposals for scrap, and the City's one for 25 cawp cars to be sold in one lot, this one doesn't look that bad, but all the references to "poor condition" indicate that this isn't one of those "if Busjack wants to buy" items

[sw4400]

Unlike the CTA proposals for scrap, and the City's one for 25 cawp cars to be sold in one lot, this one doesn't look that bad,

Neither did 1606 that CHBM has or had. Outside, it looked good, but under the hood was a several thousand pound paperweight.

CPD sells their old Crown Vics all the time, but unlike the CTA, they don't cut the hoses and do their own version of "Cash for Clunkers" and run them until they seize up. They just sell them as-is. All they do is remove the "Chicago Police" decals, take off the Police Lights, Computer, Radio, Gun Racks(maybe I'm thinking too much Adam-12 here), Siren System and Searchlights.

[Busjack]

CPD sells their old Crown Vics all the time, but unlike the CTA, they don't cut the hoses and do their own version of "Cash for Clunkers" and run them until they seize up. They just sell them as-is. All they do is remove the "Chicago Police" decals, take off the Police Lights, Computer, Radio, Gun Racks(maybe I'm thinking too much Adam-12 here), Siren System and Searchlights.

Note that the City didn't just give the bus back to CTA to put in the dead lot at 77th.

As far as the cawp cars, the conditions in the solicitation are essentially the same as in the CTA solicitation. Elwood Blues is not going to be buying one for the purpose of jumping the 95th St. Bridge. Neither are the movie producers. And certainly not the cab companies that convert police Crown Vics into taxis.

[sw4400]

Maybe it is operable... I just checked some other auction items, including a 1993 Garbage Truck the City is auctioning currently. Everything they are auctioning says RUNNING CONDITION: Unknown and CONDITION: Poor.

[cta_44499_FG]

Spoke with mobile repair the other day and several of the remaining Flxibles will be reactivated from Archer Garage to be used as street blockades during the NATO activities.

Keep your eyes (and your cameras) posted.

[sw4400]

Spoke with mobile repair the other day and several of the remaining Flxibles will be reactivated from Archer Garage to be used as street blockades during the NATO activities.

Keep your eyes (and your cameras) posted.

Eyes maybe, cameras might be difficult. Those Flxibles will be in high security areas... CPD and Secret Service will be monitoring those areas for what they consider unusual activity. People taking pictures in that area could be misinterpreted as a possible terrorist threat.

[Tmc cta 4550]

Eyes maybe, cameras might be difficult. Those Flxibles will be in high security areas... CPD and Secret Service will be monitoring those areas for what they consider unusual activity. People taking pictures in that area could be misinterpreted as a possible terrorist threat.

I saw some flxibles on Roosevelt by went worth pictures will be up soon

[Tmc cta 4550]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79045679@N08/?uploaded=3&magic_cookie=5240e327aa209b29f8aae15e39865d95

link for the pictures of the 6000s that were downtown

[sw4400]

These were probably cooling buses(story)

[YoungBusLover]

well i don't think this matters but im gonna bring it up anyway.But do they wash buses before they're taken away for scrap? Also a lot of flxibles are still at the 77th shops and i saw one washed sitting in the garage and another sitting at the front of 79th with tow on the back of it i think it was flxible 6158 or somewhere in the 6150`s but i didn't see much else but new flyers and a few nova`s down there which are probably all gone soon.

[artthouwill]

well i don't think this matters but im gonna bring it up anyway.But do they wash buses before they're taken away for scrap? Also a lot of flxibles are still at the 77th shops and i saw one washed sitting in the garage and another sitting at the front of 79th with tow on the back of it i think it was flxible 6158 or somewhere in the 6150`s but i didn't see much else but new flyers and a few nova`s down there which are probably all gone soon.

Not sure, but I saw a recent story that Fresh Moves, a non-profit organization that sells fresh fruits and vegetables in "food deserts" on the west side was expanding to the south side. CTA is supposed to be donating another bus for this program. Fresh Moves is already using one 6000 series Flxible, so it is possible that the bus you saw could be the second bus.

[Guest]

Not sure, but I saw a recent story that Fresh Moves, a non-profit organization that sells fresh fruits and vegetables in "food deserts" on the west side was expanding to the south side. CTA is supposed to be donating another bus for this program. Fresh Moves is already using one 6000 series Flxible, so it is possible that the bus you saw could be the second bus.

I worked for Fresh Moves, they did tell me their future plans were to aquire as many as ten buses from CTA to expand their operation.

[sw4400]

I would venture the NOVA's will find a new life upon retirement as Fresh Moves buses(at least around 10 of them). These would be better suited as you can deploy the ramp and allow wheelchair and handicapped people access to the fruits and vegetables stored inside the bus.

[Amtrak41]

What is the consensus: was the RTS of Flexible a better or more durable bus ?

[Busjack]

What is the consensus: was the RTS of Flexible a better or more durable bus ?

In that 5300s lasted longer than 4400s without getting a life extending rehab, and it wasn't clear that the 6000s were done when they were pulled in the Feb. 2010 service cuts, it appears Flx, at least from the Chicago evidence.

But comparing both with what came thereafter, it wasn't the case with either that they "had" to be pulled at the end of the 12 year service life.

Also, I don't get that the engines now only have a 6 year life (5800s compared to the 6000s, and supposedly now the 1000s).

[sw4400]

Also, I don't get that the engines now only have a 6 year life (5800s compared to the 6000s, and supposedly now the 1000s).

That's probably due to the mileage charts. Most of the New Flyers have close to or a little over 250,000 miles on them. That's a lot of miles on an engine. Most powertrains last about 100,000 miles before major components start to fail and break down, causing the vehicle to be put out of service frequently. A 6-Year life span on powertrain probably assures a more reliable vehicle.

[sw4400]

What is the consensus: was the RTS of Flexible a better or more durable bus ?

Both, IMO were the workhorses of the CTA from 1989-2010. I don't yet see a clear workhorse in the current stock other than New Flyer with the sheer numbers of buses operating.

Past Workhorses of the CTA(1972-Present)

-GM Fishbowls(1000, 7400, 9000, 9600): These were workhorses based on the numbers of buses operating and length of service these units had.

-Flyer D901A(9900, 1600): These took the workhorse title in the early 1990's, despite the lawn mower speed many mention they had as the Fishbowls started to retire. They held it very briefly as the Flxibles and TMC's started proving themselves

-TMC RTS(4400): These may have retired before the Flxible(5300), but these units are definitely the workhorses of the CTA from the mid 90's until their retirement in 2008. Even after rebuild and some being as slow as a Flyer D901, they still were tough and on the road.

-Flxible Metro(5300): These were the other workhorse units of the CTA from the mid 90's until their retirement in 2009. They didn't have a rebuild and thus were a little less reliable than the TMC's. A rebuild might've made them the more prominent workhorse

-Flxible Metro(6000): With the TMC's and sister Flxible series buses retired, the 6000's became the new workhorse for the CTA in 2009, but it only lasted about a year as lack of funding mothballed them early from service.

-NOVA LFS(6400): The NOVA LFS are a very durable model, but I don't believe they are the workhorses of the CTA.

-New Flyer D40LF(1000): The New Flyers are getting close to be considered the workhorses of the CTA, based more-so on their sheer numbers. Bus Operators have mixed reviews on these buses.