New Eldorados?

[rotjohns]

On 4/6/2016 at 3:05 PM, Busjack said:

While the KTLA video shows that the car fire burned the bus

Good grief, that bus was cut in half.  Bye bye to that bus.

[Busjack]

20 minutes ago, rotjohns said:

Good grief, that bus was cut in half.  Bye bye to that bus.

But it was a NABI artic. That would have happened anyway. The real question is how much of the composite skin burned.

What's notable at the end was that the whole bellows burned, indicating that the fire got to roof level, but, again, the bus did not explode. I wonder if the punks in the MB have enough insurance to cover the potential $750K liability.

[BusHunter]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

 

If the first one isn't saying that they aren't doing their jobs, it sure isn't saying anything else.

The 120 gallons of diesel could have blown, too. Not as volatile as CNG, but it can blow.

Remember what I just said above about 120 gallons of diesel fuel. And the MB's gas tank sure did a number on the LA bus--but that bus DID NOT explode.

Here's something else to consider: The major private garbage haulers around here (Advance, Groot, Waste Management, and, as mentioned in the cited article, Ozinga) use CNG trucks. Have there been mass explosions?

I'm convinced that you and sw relish predicting disasters. Yet neither one of you predicted the Forest Park or O'Hare ones in advance.

As far as the first one, that is what you perceive. I guess when there's a fire by you, you run back in the burning house to get your cell phone. You seem to have no regard for someone's personal safety, a human life is worth more than a bus. Safety first. I can see the fireman's point. My problem with it is you can't put it out from a distance? The flamethrower bus everyone just seems to be standing around. If the fire would have been put out maybe it wouldn't have exploded, but the mentality might very well be if the tanks are compromised they could still explode, so better for everyone's safety to just let them explode.

You don't know what happened with #4333, were you there? A bus burning to the frame is an indication to me it wasn't put out too fast. I don't think you know what is happening with the garbage haulers either. It's not like it's going to be on the news everytime it happens.

Overall my concern is just looking out for the agencies. Maybe the buses can be a little safer. What really interests me is if the bus is so safe why isn't CTA flocking to it? They have an opportunity to clean the environment and they don't? But this time I think they are right.

New studies are showing there's a danger to CNG buses. They emit invisible nanocarbons which have been known to cause cancer. So are you really cleaning the environment? At least exhaust you can see, this is the invisible killer as CNG vehicles have no visible exhaust. So while their heart may be in the right place trying to clean the environment, the technology is still faulty, it's just a question of how faulty? I guess we'll find out in the future.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/environment/pollution/CNG-run-vehicles-emit-dangerous-nanocarbon-CSIR-study-finds/articleshow/48377499.cms

[Busjack]

22 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

You seem to have no regard for someone's personal safety,

I figure it is firefighters' job to put out a fire, in a manner consistent with their training.

I will respect 5750's views on this if he chimes in, but obviously you have not graduated from the Fire Academy.

22 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

A bus burning to the frame is an indication to me it wasn't put out too fast

But it burned to the frame, and there was news footage that the fire dept. was pouring water on it. I remember the discussion here with 5750 about why they used water rather than foam. But my point was THEY DIDN'T STAND THERE WATCHING THE BUS BURN. They put water on the fire.

22 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

I don't think you know what is happening with the garbage haulers either. It's not like it's going to be on the news everytime it happens.

You wanna bet? What news crew is not going to want to have an exploding garbage truck on its airwaves?

But basically you say you know more than every major private garbage hauler in the area. I doubt it.

[BusHunter]

19 hours ago, Busjack said:

I figure it is firefighters' job to put out a fire, in a manner consistent with their training.

I will respect 5750's views on this if he chimes in, but obviously you have not graduated from the Fire Academy.

But it burned to the frame, and there was news footage that the fire dept. was pouring water on it. I remember the discussion here with 5750 about why they used water rather than foam. But my point was THEY DIDN'T STAND THERE WATCHING THE BUS BURN. They put water on the fire.

You wanna bet? What news crew is not going to want to have an exploding garbage truck on its airwaves?

But basically you say you know more than every major private garbage hauler in the area. I doubt it.

Ditto, the same can be said about you. Unfortunately you don't know my background and you probably never will. With that I will end this discussion with you as I can't seem to reach you. Too bad.

[andrethebusman]

Part of the problem is that indeed the tanks have a safety valve. If they didn't, they could get so hot they would explode. Safety valve lets the gas escape in a somewhat "controlled" fashion. Yes, like a blowtorch, but better than having shrapnel flying all directions. Back in the 1980's several systems were trying out LNG - another VERY, VERY nasty thing to deal with. LNG is so explosive that the ships that bring the stuff from Africa have to anchor way out at sea and attach to basically a pipeline to unload because if one of those were to catch fire, you are talking megatons, small nuclear device size, explosion. LA was one of those that tried LNG on a small number of buses, gave up on it after one bus had a very violent end. Luckily it was outdoors and not in a building.

True, the chances of one catching fire are relatively small. Consider propane, another highly explosive fuel. CTA had a huge number of propane buses for many years, yet there were only two explosions that I know of - the infamous Kedzie one that took out four buses, the fueling island, and every window for several blocks around. The other one was at almost the same time, at 69th, and took out about 6 5500's, though that one was apparently a propane-fueled fire rather than an actual explosion.

 

[BusHunter]

Yeah like I said, there shouldn't be a problem until there is a fire. Pace has had a few fires here and there so potentially you may have a bad incidence up to 5 times in a bus lifetime. Maybe one or two are particularly bad. Hopefully it doesn't happen in a confined space when/if it does.

The nanocarbon thing, tends to have credence with me. I tended to have something similar happen myself. I had a cat in the basement and my furnace is in the basement. The cat died of cancer. I already associated the cat's death having to do with natural gas although natural gas didn't kill it directly. I believe it was the carbons from burning the natural gas. A furnace may be a nice thing to cuddle up by, but it's a silent death device. No more living things live in my basement as a precaution. The cat did live it's normal 16 years so I could be paranoid, but two and two seem to add to 4 for me. 

 

[andrethebusman]

Cancer in old cats is very common, I'm afraid...

[BusHunter]

Probably a few buses wouldn't really hurt anyone, because the toxins can dissipate in the air. But I would be concerned if I worked around these buses in great quantity, like garage personnel or I lived near a garage. I once worked at O'Hare around all the gas guzzling planes and when I got home my clothes would reek of exhaust smells and I would feel like a walking gas station. Your skin would be sticky with soot and you couldn't wait to come home and take a bath. I had thoughts of if my clothes are like this, what is this doing to my lungs? I'm glad I don't work out there anymore. I probably have added years to my life as I wasn't out there more than a few years.

[Busjack]

5 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Probably a few buses wouldn't really hurt anyone, because the toxins can dissipate in the air.

Have you done a complete chemical analysis of diesel exhaust compared to methane exhaust? And you aren't worried about 1860 or so CTA buses putting pollution in the air?

I thought you said you were done with this detour into the irrelevant. Especially since you assumed that NW garage was also going to be all CNG. Looks like you had a change of heart for inexplicable reasons.

[Busjack]

On 4/6/2016 at 2:52 PM, BusHunter said:

Here's an article on the Pace CNG's that goes into more detail on what they intend to improve in Markham as well as the economic figures of going with CNG. ...

 

First indication that the CNGs may be ready to roll: 348 routing change due to low clearance.

[rotjohns]

4 hours ago, Busjack said:

First indication that the CNGs may be ready to roll: 348 routing change due to low clearance.

Interesting.  Usually only 6600s run this route so the fact this is happening let's us know they'll be the first to be moved elsewhere.  

[Pace831]

36 minutes ago, rotjohns said:

Interesting.  Usually only 6600s run this route so the fact this is happening let's us know they'll be the first to be moved elsewhere.  

Not necessarily. 6600s could continue to be used primarily, but the routing would still need to be changed due to the possibility of a CNG on that route.

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, Pace831 said:

Not necessarily. 6600s could continue to be used primarily, but the routing would still need to be changed due to the possibility of a CNG on that route.

Well the whole garage is going cng so the whole garage would need adequate clearance on it's routes.

[Pace831]

10 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Well the whole garage is going cng so the whole garage would need adequate clearance on it's routes.

Eventually yes, but I don't think the passenger notice proves that 6600s will start leaving first. Since the CNGs are 40', logically they would start on routes that currently use 40' NABIs. There will probably be 35' buses around until all the CNGs have arrived. That's just my take on it, but of course things don't always happen according to forum predictions.

[Busjack]

1 minute ago, Pace831 said:

Eventually yes, but I don't think the passenger notice proves that 6600s will start leaving first. Since the CNGs are 40', logically they would start on routes that currently use 40' NABIs. There will probably be 35' buses around until all the CNGs have arrived. That's just my take on it, but of course things don't always happen according to forum predictions.

The only thing the passenger notice proves is the same thing a similar rerouting did in Highland Park--Pace has to check the clearances before it can run an 11 foot tall bus, and thus this is an indication that they  intend to run an 11 foot tall bus. I bet they pretty much have to check all clearances under the various CN lines.

Also, like at FG, Pace said they had to do training before starting revenue service.

[Busjack]

In fact, many of them are in service right now:

 

[Pace831]

7 minutes ago, Busjack said:

In fact, many of them are in service right now:

Seeing that they're on 356 and 357, maybe it doesn't matter whether the route has been mostly run with 35' or 40' buses, since they'll all be CNG sooner or later.

[Busjack]

5 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

Seeing that they're on 356 and 357, maybe it doesn't matter whether the route has been mostly run with 35' or 40' buses, since they'll all be CNG sooner or later.

The only thing that seems relevant is that they can't do 348 until June 13 (the schedule change).

[jajuan]

On 6/2/2016 at 9:31 AM, Busjack said:

The only thing the passenger notice proves is the same thing a similar rerouting did in Highland Park--Pace has to check the clearances before it can run an 11 foot tall bus, and thus this is an indication that they  intend to run an 11 foot tall bus. I bet they pretty much have to check all clearances under the various CN lines.

Also, like at FG, Pace said they had to do training before starting revenue service.

Basically it's no different than when CTA got the 4000s and had to reroute 145 and 148 from going to the Damen Brown Line at the time because they discovered the back end of those buses was too tall to fit underneath the UP-North Metra tracks over Wilson Avenue.

[BusHunter]

Now we can wonder where are the castoffs going? to SW? What do you do with NW, give them someone else's Eldorados? I suppose West could take some buses, they have Orions.

[Busjack]

7 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Now we can wonder where are the castoffs going? to SW? What do you do with NW, give them someone else's Eldorados? I suppose West could take some buses, they have Orions.

Betting line is that all NW gets the Pulse and I-90 buses.

Blue NABIs go back to W, so that leaves SW in play.

However for the 8,294th time, I'm not Melinda Metzger.

[rotjohns]

13 hours ago, Busjack said:

Betting line is that all NW gets the Pulse and I-90 buses.

Blue NABIs go back to W, so that leaves SW in play.

However for the 8,294th time, I'm not Melinda Metzger.

Well all of the Orions are gonna be outta here, no matter where they are, very quickly.  In fact, I wouldn't be totally shocked if some of the 6600s or the early 6162s are gone too if they haven't been wrapped yet.  They are 13 years old so at least a handful of them will be put down once all of the 15500s arrive and are put in service.  

[BusHunter]

Yeah probably the #6262's will go to West, the #6162's will go to SW and #6600's may go to either place. Would it be nuts to send the SW eldorkos to NW? #6600's could always run the #2800's runs. There's nothing else I can think of for NW.

Remember Busjack, supposedly the I-90 buses are going to this new garage in Dundee, so the most NW gets new is for Pulse. So possibly they could do this: give NW half the SW eldorko's and wait for Pulse to get rid of the orions that are left. I'm assuming no local #270's will have Pulse buses, although I don't know how they can alternate destinations then because not every run will go to glenbrook hospital every trip.

[mel bernero]

Pace 15507 working Western Avenue