Renew The Blue: Forest Park Branch

[Busjack]

So if the Forest Park Branch gets renewed, do you think Blue Lines will operate on the Douglas Branch (54/Cermak Branch) again?

Might be a bit of an increase, but the Lake Green Line is also an existing alternative.

You also have the problem that the tracks between Clinton and the ramp would theoretically be gone. They probably will do something like the UIC or Medical District crossover first and leave it at that, or use a crossover in the subway, like they did before the Congress was built.

Also, if they tear up the tracks and the expressway at the same time, it is going to be a bear to get to the UIC-Medical District area, either by transit or car.

[BusHunter]

The Pink line goes to the medical district. As far as replacement "L" service they would probably have to go with the Green line, because that would most easily link up to the buses at Forest Pk. But we would probably still see a few blue line trains on the Pink line. I doubt they can turn all trains at morgan middle.

[Busjack]

The Pink line goes to the medical district. As far as replacement "L" service they would probably have to go with the Green line, because that would most easily link up to the buses at Forest Pk. But we would probably still see a few blue line trains on the Pink line. I doubt they can turn all trains at morgan middle.

The Pink Line does go to Polk, but not on a direct route. Question is also whether those who get on at the Forest Park part of the line would go to 54/Cermak.

And as far as Blue Line trains either going on the Pink Line or turning at Morgan Middle, the tracks between Clinton and Paulina are just as old as west of there so there would be no way to get to either. The display implies that Morgan Middle would be ripped up for a turnback track west of the Medical District (page 30 of the pdf).

[mkohut]

The Pink Line does go to Polk, but not on a direct route. Question is also whether those who get on at the Forest Park part of the line would go to 54/Cermak.

And as far as Blue Line trains either going on the Pink Line or turning at Morgan Middle, the tracks between Clinton and Paulina are just as old as west of there so there would be no way to get to either. The display implies that Morgan Middle would be ripped up for a turnback track west of the Medical District (page 30 of the pdf).

This is a long way to go before it happens.But,when it happens they do have room for bypass.

It would be interesting to see if the Blue Line Extension gets done before the Red Line just to get Emanuel mad.

[Busjack]

This is a long way to go before it happens.But,when it happens they do have room for bypass.

It would be interesting to see if the Blue Line Extension gets done before the Red Line just to get Emanuel mad.

Admittedly, they are only at the Alternatives Analysis stage, but highway projects seem to get built, and IDOT is the lead agency for this. Still leaves open the question where CTA would get the money for its end of the project, which is where I suppose your last sentence is going. In the meantime, there were stories over the weekend that Emanuel isn't doing so well on his promises, so transit may be one place where his iron hand is getting results, but then he better hope there is another Build Illinois bond program, similar to what has paid for the Dan Ryan project.

[mkohut]

Admittedly, they are only at the Alternatives Analysis stage, but highway projects seem to get built, and IDOT is the lead agency for this. Still leaves open the question where CTA would get the money for its end of the project, which is where I suppose your last sentence is going. In the meantime, there were stories over the weekend that Emanuel isn't doing so well on his promises, so transit may be one place where his iron hand is getting results, but then he better hope there is another Build Illinois bond program, similar to what has paid for the Dan Ryan project.

The last time i check Bonds interest rate for Illinois was 5.9 percent and they having a hard time selling.

Til the College Clowns get its act together or new faces after the next election I don't see this happening.

If i do remember correctly the Wacker Drive Project was 50 million dollars under budget.But,not sure what happen to that money .

[Busjack]

The last time i check Bonds interest rate for Illinois was 5.9 percent and they having a hard time selling.

Til the College Clowns get its act together or new faces after the next election I don't see this happening.

If i do remember correctly the Wacker Drive Project was 50 million dollars under budget.But,not sure sure that money went..

Supposedly the bond interest rate was high enough that Illinois wasn't able to sell this year's worth of Build Illinois bonds (at least when planned in January; e.g. Crain's Tribune), no need to speak about another 5 year program.

[Juniorz]

Or a massive bus shuttle operations

[jtrosario]

Or a massive bus shuttle operations

Nowhere do they say that the Forest Park branch will be closed down, although IF the right of way changes, then there's a possibility of a service cut West of Cicero(maybe a 1 track shuttle??) or it could be staggered similiar to the Belmont/Fullerton/Wilson rebuilds. Also, somewhere in there they do mention moving 1 of the 2 tracks to widen platforms (implied Cicero to UIC stops, possibly Austin to Harlem if the ROW is not changed)

What I don't see possible is getting the 1st Ave to Manheim stops built before the I-290 widening as most of that section is to go in the median West of the Des Plaines river. So even though having the Blue line there would be nice during construction, it looks like that part would have to be constructed concurrently(ideally) or shortly after the I-290 widening.

EDIT: And then there's the whole Toll Lane thing, which could transfer the lead agency (and funding) to the Illinois Tollway Authority - as is happening now on the Elgin-O'Hare expressway, so there is a precedent. If/when that happens, this project gets sped up considerably - and all 4 finalist versions include extending the Blue line to Manheim.

[mkohut]

Nowhere do they say that the Forest Park branch will be closed down, although IF the right of way changes, then there's a possibility of a service cut West of Cicero(maybe a 1 track shuttle??) or it could be staggered similiar to the Belmont/Fullerton/Wilson rebuilds. Also, somewhere in there they do mention moving 1 of the 2 tracks to widen platforms (implied Cicero to UIC stops, possibly Austin to Harlem if the ROW is not changed)

What I don't see possible is getting the 1st Ave to Manheim stops built before the I-290 widening as most of that section is to go in the median West of the Des Plaines river. So even though having the Blue line there would be nice during construction, it looks like that part would have to be constructed concurrently(ideally) or shortly after the I-290 widening.

EDIT: And then there's the whole Toll Lane thing, which could transfer the lead agency (and funding) to the Illinois Tollway Authority - as is happening now on the Elgin-O'Hare expressway, so there is a precedent. If/when that happens, this project gets sped up considerably - and all 4 finalist versions include extending the Blue line to Manheim.

Totally agree with Busjack.If you look back at 1958 according to Chicago-l.org.There was a reroute done that went 2 and a half miles non stop.

[Busjack]

Totally agree with Busjack.If you look back at 1958 according to Chicago-l.org.There was a reroute done that went 2 and a half miles non stop.

If you mean the Garfield Park (which became Congress) route, the difference then was that there was massive land clearance to make way for the expressway. As the Dan Ryan job proves today, there is not going to be that level of condemnation.

The other reroute was Douglas over the Paulina connector, which is essentially the same as the Pink Line today.

The only thing that seems feasible today is that since the median is wide enough for 4 tracks (due to leaving room for the CA&E, according to Krambles) to build a temporary track where tracks 1 and 4 would have been, except that there would still be a cruddy rail bed, and it appears from the display that the extra right of way is to be used for a 4th lane of the expressway or to move out the tracks for wider platforms (or maybe both).

[Busjack]

...If you look back at 1958 according to Chicago-l.org.There was a reroute done that went 2 and a half miles non stop.

In connection with this and BusHunter's link, the CERA blog has a page on construction of the Congress Expressway and relocation of the Garfield Park L, including the L running on Van Buren Street, demolition along the corridor, and Mayor Daley the First driving the "golden spike" on the rapid transit construction.

[mkohut]

In connection with this and BusHunter's link, the CERA blog has a page on construction of the Congress Expressway and relocation of the Garfield Park L, including the L running on Van Buren Street, demolition along the corridor, and Mayor Daley the First driving the "golden spike" on the rapid transit construction.

Thanks for sharing that link. The pictures gives a better understanding of how much work it took to get it done.

I don't think it will be as much work to get everything build If funding ever happens..

[Tcmetro]

Here's an update on the Blue Line Forest Park study:

• Retain multiple entrances at Harlem, Oak Park, Austin, Ill. Med. Dist., Racine, and UIC-Halsted
• Consolidate (dual-headhouse) Cicero, Pulaski, and Western.
• Redesign of Forest Park site, including yards.
• Removal of closed stations

http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/pdfs/i-290_cag18_073014_web.pdf

[Busjack]

Here's an update on the Blue Line Forest Park study:

• Retain multiple entrances at Harlem, Oak Park, Austin, Ill. Med. Dist., Racine, and UIC-Halsted
• Consolidate (dual-headhouse) Cicero, Pulaski, and Western.
• Redesign of Forest Park site, including yards.
• Removal of closed stations

http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/pdfs/i-290_cag18_073014_web.pdf

The inconsistency in the IDOT portion of the presentation is that page 9 says:

Blue Line Extension

– Heavy rail less benefit at relatively high cost

– Express bus on reconstructed shoulder as initial strategy

However, the build alternatives all seem to assume an extension to Mannheim Road, which is about 1/4 mile from the end of the project.The question probably is whether they consulted with the Tollway Authority about BOS on I-88 west of there. Remember that 747 was combined with 301, in part to avoid the Hillside Strangler.

[BusHunter]

Here's an update on the Blue Line Forest Park study:

• Retain multiple entrances at Harlem, Oak Park, Austin, Ill. Med. Dist., Racine, and UIC-Halsted
• Consolidate (dual-headhouse) Cicero, Pulaski, and Western.
• Redesign of Forest Park site, including yards.
• Removal of closed stations

http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/pdfs/i-290_cag18_073014_web.pdf

Wow, the stations really look nice. It might actually rival the Dan Ryan. I'm surprised they want to keep the Blue line footprint west of Central in it's current position. I don't know how they expect to widen the Ike. Is the 11' lane reduction idea the plan to squeeze in a HOV lane and the 3 existing lanes each way? They are still going to have bottlenecks as it doesn't really do anything for car travel. Now the idea to possibly make that a toll road if that happens will flood riders to the Blue line and express bus and may improve traffic. So the express bus west of Forest Pk will run in the footprint of a blue line extension if that ever should happen? I would have those buses possibly serve Oakbrook and the business district there as well as Oakbrook Center Mall.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

Here's an update on the Blue Line Forest Park study:

• Retain multiple entrances at Harlem, Oak Park, Austin, Ill. Med. Dist., Racine, and UIC-Halsted
• Consolidate (dual-headhouse) Cicero, Pulaski, and Western.
• Redesign of Forest Park site, including yards.
• Removal of closed stations

http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/pdfs/i-290_cag18_073014_web.pdf

The PDF doesn't open in Safari, however trying it in Chrome, I can see it.

Anyways, those certainly are interesting station designs.

[strictures]

How much of the former CA&E ROW is still available to extend the line?

It should go at least to 25th Ave.

[Busjack]

How much of the former CA&E ROW is still available to extend the line?

It should go at least to 25th Ave.

Don't know about row, but the proposals are to extend to Mannheim, which is the equivalent of 41st Ave.

There isn't the row down Westchester Blvd., if that is what you are asking.

[BusHunter]

The inconsistency in the IDOT portion of the presentation is that page 9 says:

Blue Line Extension

– Heavy rail less benefit at relatively high cost

– Express bus on reconstructed shoulder as initial strategy

However, the build alternatives all seem to assume an extension to Mannheim Road, which is about 1/4 mile from the end of the project.The question probably is whether they consulted with the Tollway Authority about BOS on I-88 west of there. Remember that 747 was combined with 301, in part to avoid the Hillside Strangler.

Yeah upon a second read I noticed all the options include rail myself. That would be terrific if they extended the Blue line, but they only want to have three stops, 5th Ave, 25th Ave and Mannheim. Maybe they should think about 17th Av. It would be really strange, first they would leave the Ike at Forest Pk and then rejoin it to go to Mannheim. They say they want to reconfigure Forest Pk yard but how? The renderings all show the station in the same spot but more over Des Plaines Avenue.

[Busjack]

...They say they want to reconfigure Forest Pk yard but how? The renderings all show the station in the same spot but more over Des Plaines Avenue.

It said they needed more storage capacity. But you continue to doubt that.

[BusHunter]

It said they needed more storage capacity. But you continue to doubt that.

yeah if it goes to mannheim, but I don't see a fleet expansion if they don't. My question is barring multi level parking garages and yards expanding over the ike. I don't see where you could put an expansion.

[jajuan]

Here's an update on the Blue Line Forest Park study:

• Retain multiple entrances at Harlem, Oak Park, Austin, Ill. Med. Dist., Racine, and UIC-Halsted
• Consolidate (dual-headhouse) Cicero, Pulaski, and Western.
• Redesign of Forest Park site, including yards.
• Removal of closed stations

http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/pdfs/i-290_cag18_073014_web.pdf

They really do need to remove those closed stations because they've been eyesores for just over 30 years on average. I also like the concepts shown for the station rebuilds for those that are open especially when it comes to making better and safer bus connections when it comes to the dual headhouse concepts.

The inconsistency in the IDOT portion of the presentation is that page 9 says:

Blue Line Extension

– Heavy rail less benefit at relatively high cost

– Express bus on reconstructed shoulder as initial strategy

However, the build alternatives all seem to assume an extension to Mannheim Road, which is about 1/4 mile from the end of the project.The question probably is whether they consulted with the Tollway Authority about BOS on I-88 west of there. Remember that 747 was combined with 301, in part to avoid the Hillside Strangler.

Yeah I was a little thrown by that part of the presentation also. Seeing how they would make HOV bus lanes in that area work would be interesting in light of the fact that they merged 747 with 301 and therefore killed express bus service in that area that isn't peak time and direction only.

[artthouwill]

They really do need to remove those closed stations because they've been eyesores for just over 30 years on average. I also like the concepts shown for the station rebuilds for those that are open especially when it comes to making better and safer bus connections when it comes to the dual headhouse concepts.

Yeah I was a little thrown by that part of the presentation also. Seeing how they would make HOV bus lanes in that area work would be interesting in light of the fact that they merged 747 with 301 and therefore killed express bus service in that area that isn't peak time and direction only.

Well during the nonpeak periods, the 747 ridership wasn't that great. During peak periods, the EB Roosevelt ramp to I-290 was always closed so EB 747s were forced to use Roosevelt anyway. The only thing I loathe about the 301/747 merger is the routing via Wolf, Darmstadt, Butterfield, and Elmhurst. Proviso West doesn't have to have every bus serve it, and the ridership between there and Elmhurst Memorial is nearly zilch. The bus driver switch on that route could be done at Roosevelt/Manheim rather than the Pace Park N Ride on Darmstadt.

I would like to see an extension of the Blue Line to Manheim.

[garmon757]

Yeah upon a second read I noticed all the options include rail myself. That would be terrific if they extended the Blue line, but they only want to have three stops, 5th Ave, 25th Ave and Mannheim. Maybe they should think about 17th Av. It would be really strange, first they would leave the Ike at Forest Pk and then rejoin it to go to Mannheim. They say they want to reconfigure Forest Pk yard but how? The renderings all show the station in the same spot but more over Des Plaines Avenue.

It wouldn't make any logical sense to have a station @ 17th. There's hardly anything over there unless you wanna talk about having a pace bus going down on 17th to Broadview Village Square @ 22nd-Cermak Road.