7900-series Nova LFS - Updates

[Mr.cta85]

54 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Wow I'm actually surprised fg seems to have higher ridership than 103rd. But the #77 is a beast top 5 in ridership and they have some high profile routes like the #80 and #81. No reason to run old junk on a top 5 route. Fg just gets the shaft. Things have gotten worse over time. Used to be when fg got buses they weren't stolen away. Last two deliveries have been like that. Why cant they just take the 8236s and call it a day? Taking new buses is insulting to fg because they have the oldest equipment. Do you know counting the 89 buses and the 7 novas not even half the garage is equipped with buses at least from this decade. That's right. The majority of the fg fleet has buses 2006 and older. That's saying over half of fg has buses past the FTA 12 year service life. While we can argue a rehab gets the 1000s to 18 years what can you say about the 6400s. No rehab in 18 years!!! Are they the oldest buses in the nation. They got to be getting close. In a  way it dont make sense to have 7 new buses at fg. If they are not going to split them they should just take them all. Believe it. If cta goes all electric guess what garage will be last on the list. You know what would be interesting is figuring the average age of buses per garage. I bet fg is dead last. 

?? so the 8200's and 8300-24 are not new buses?? I understand FG don't have the spaking new buses but the 1's they do have are still new. The only case you have is the 6400's which still dont make sense to move them anywhere other than where they are until they're all gone. 

[sw4400]

21 minutes ago, Mr.cta85 said:

?? so the 8200's and 8300-24 are not new buses?? I understand FG don't have the spaking new buses but the 1's they do have are still new buses. The only case you have is the 6400's which still dont make sense to move them anywhere other than where they are until they're all gone. 

And I think we have a few which might be getting ready to be written off soon.... I got a few missing for over 10 days so far.

[NewFlyerMCI]

53 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

But the #77 is a beast top 5 in ridership 

Which does make me wonder why they don't share it with NP and throw the occasional artic on it for a Kimball to Octavia run like they do the 82

[artthouwill]

10 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Wow I'm actually surprised fg seems to have higher ridership than 103rd. But the #77 is a beast top 5 in ridership and they have some high profile routes like the #80 and #81. No reason to run old junk on a top 5 route. Fg just gets the shaft. Things have gotten worse over time. Used to be when fg got buses they weren't stolen away. Last two deliveries have been like that. Why cant they just take the 8236s and call it a day? Taking new buses is insulting to fg because they have the oldest equipment. Do you know counting the 89 buses and the 7 novas not even half the garage is equipped with buses at least from this decade. That's right. The majority of the fg fleet has buses 2006 and older. That's saying over half of fg has buses past the FTA 12 year service life. While we can argue a rehab gets the 1000s to 18 years what can you say about the 6400s. No rehab in 18 years!!! Are they the oldest buses in the nation. They got to be getting close. In a  way it dont make sense to have 7 new buses at fg. If they are not going to split them they should just take them all. Believe it. If cta goes all electric guess what garage will be last on the list. You know what would be interesting is figuring the average age of buses per garage. I bet fg is dead last. 

I agree only to the extent it didnt make sense to split the 8325s for the exact same reason I have said the 6400s should stay at one garage.  Either FG should have all of the 8325s, and they should've had them all, or give them all to 103rd.  

The 6400s make FG the garage with the oldest fleet and 103rd is second oldest.  C and NP have the youngest fleets.

Pace West ha2003 and 2005s running still and they are half of W's fleet, while NW, SW, S, and maybe N and NS are all newer Eldorado Axxess.  Whenever Pace gets around to it, I'm sure they will replace those old buses.  CTA will eventually do the same.

 

[YoungBusLover]

Well to me sending what 20 or so new novas to 103rd just for driver shields seems a little ridiculous to me when you have nearly 20 out 190 or so shared between 74th and 77th to choose from. Why not send some #7900's or #8000's to 103rd in exchange for some lower #1000's then?

[Mr.cta85]

10 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

Well to me sending what 20 or so new novas to 103rd just for driver shields seems a little ridiculous to me when you have nearly 20 out 190 or so shared between 74th and 77th to choose from. Why not send some #7900's or #8000's to 103rd in exchange for some lower #1000's then?

I dont understand why is this such a big deal to begin with. I can see if FG lost all of their new novas but it's only 18 buses while they still have 89 brand new novas. Even if my garage did get them from another garage it's still only 18 buses as far as exchanges went. Dont be surprised if 8343-49 are gone also in exchange for more flyers lol that's still only 25 in comparison to 83 they'll have...83!!! Maybe if 103rd had smooth easy going routes like FG we wouldn't need Novas for their shields and I'm not saying that's the sole reason we have Novas in the 1st place,  but as a operator out of 103rd I'm glad we have them because of the better shields and just to have new 40ft buses in general. It's a lot more hetic out south than it is up north I know that for a fact.

[YoungBusLover]

16 minutes ago, Mr.cta85 said:

I dont understand why is this such a big deal to begin with. I can see if FG lost all of their new novas but it's only 18 buses while they still have 89 brand new novas. Even if my garage did get them from another garage it's still only 18 buses as far as exchanges went. Dont be surprised if 8343-49 are gone also in exchange for more flyers lol that's still only 25 in comparison to 83 they'll have...83!!! Maybe if 103rd had smooth easy going routes like FG we wouldn't need Novas for their shields and I'm not saying that's the sole reason we have Novas in the 1st place,  but as a operator out of 103rd I'm glad we have them because of the better shields and just to have new 40ft buses in general. It's a lot more hetic out south than it is up north I know that for a fact.

I understand the reasoning behind it and i'm all for driver safety. However I just feel that the method behind it is a little shady to me. I do feel that the #7900's fleet as a whole should get spread out a little more at some point in the future.

[BusHunter]

2 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

I understand the reasoning behind it and i'm all for driver safety. However I just feel that the method behind it is a little shady to me. I do feel that the #7900's fleet as a whole should get spread out a little more at some point in the future.

What's shady about it is how can 18 buses make your garage safer? That's barely any buses that's like 10 percent of the 103rd fleet. 

@Mr.cta85

To say though that fg routes are a breeze is another thing. You must have never seen the #77. That route uses up buses like candy and the buses are packed. It's right up there with 79th and King drive. It's possible fg will lose all the new buses cause it's only 7 buses. I'm starting to wonder if possibly they could lose all the newer novas. I wouldnt be surprised. I wonder who decided on this anyway cause the buses did show up to fg in the first place. Looks like someone was overruled. Kind of weird we've been led to believe that fg has the least ridership and it dont yet it is portrayed to. Does sound kind of shady. 

[YoungBusLover]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

What's shady about it is how can 18 buses make your garage safer? That's barely any buses that's like 10 percent of the 103rd fleet. 

@Mr.cta85

To say though that fg routes are a breeze is another thing. You must have never seen the #77. That route uses up buses like candy and the buses are packed. It's right up there with 79th and King drive. It's possible fg will lose all the new buses cause it's only 7 buses. I'm starting to wonder if possibly they could lose all the newer novas. I wouldnt be surprised. I wonder who decided on this anyway cause the buses did show up to fg in the first place. Looks like someone was overruled. Kind of weird we've been led to believe that fg has the least ridership and it dont yet it is portrayed to. Does sound kind of shady. 

Its shady because of the points being made about FG getting the short end of the stick when it comes to receiving new equipment,As I stated earlier if its all about driver safety why not keep the 8325s at FG and have 74th or 77th send some #7900's and #8000's over to 103rd if it was that serious of an issue.Originally that was the initial plan with 77th sending some 7900's over to 103rd that seemed to be in the works then for whatever reason it fell apart.

[Sam92]

35 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

Its shady because of the points being made about FG getting the short end of the stick when it comes to receiving new equipment,As I stated earlier if its all about driver safety why not keep the 8325s at FG and have 74th or 77th send some #7900's and #8000's over to 103rd if it was that serious of an issue.Originally that was the initial plan with 77th sending some 7900's over to 103rd that seemed to be in the works then for whatever reason it fell apart.

How did it get the short end when it has new Novas? Just cause they aren't the highest numbered? Come on y'all been complaining for years now you got second gen Novas it's STILL not enough ??. Technically with the oldest 4000's and only middle range flyers Kedzie kinda seems a bit shafted. Plus no one said FG was lowest ridership it's more rush hour heavy which is perfect for an old fleet seeing as they get a lot of rest off peak and weekends. The same logic that was a applied for why purple shouldn't have 5000

[Guest]

8 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

I understand the reasoning behind it and i'm all for driver safety. However I just feel that the method behind it is a little shady to me. I do feel that the #7900's fleet as a whole should get spread out a little more at some point in the future.

While it’s nice that FG got the majority of the 8325s. It’s still a low number of newer Novas at FG.  When you look at the bigger picture. A majority of the 7900s are on the south and west sides. 7900 to about half the 8200s are on south and west side routes. So that only leaves half of 8200-and all 8300s at FG. Very uneven distribution if you ask me. CTA should return the 8200s they took from FG back. I feel at some point knowing CTA and the mayoral elections. I could see CTA removing some new Novas from FG again so that the south and west sides can continue to have more newer buses. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

I propose we find another avenue of discussion other than the "woe is me FG" track, because neither side will ever rest until the 6400s are gone or all 450 7900s are at FG. Right now, the main focus is why 8325-8349 got distributed so unevenly and whether or not that'll change or we'll have another 8212-8223 situation

[XE NewFlyer]

6 hours ago, BusHunter said:

What's shady about it is how can 18 buses make your garage safer? That's barely any buses that's like 10 percent of the 103rd fleet. 

@Mr.cta85

To say though that fg routes are a breeze is another thing. You must have never seen the #77. That route uses up buses like candy and the buses are packed. It's right up there with 79th and King drive. It's possible fg will lose all the new buses cause it's only 7 buses. I'm starting to wonder if possibly they could lose all the newer novas. I wouldnt be surprised. I wonder who decided on this anyway cause the buses did show up to fg in the first place. Looks like someone was overruled. Kind of weird we've been led to believe that fg has the least ridership and it dont yet it is portrayed to. Does sound kind of shady. 

 

The best option i see is to convert the 77 ENTIRELY to artics from NP or K. Schedule changes will need to be made or the entire route is a mess. I would say -30% Runs during Rush -20% weekdays -10% on Saturdays and - 1 or 2 on Sundays, just a Guess. Nevertheless this will not only mostly solve the absence of new buses at FG. It will also reduce the route's carbon footprint. The dwell time problem dosen't quite make sense to me yet. I know what it is but i don't know why or how it happens. As far as i can see dwell time on 40 footers will be longer with all the people squirming around each other on those packed buses. 

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, CTA5750 said:

While it’s nice that FG got the majority of the 8325s. It’s still a low number of newer Novas at FG.  When you look at the bigger picture. A majority of the 7900s are on the south and west sides. 7900 to about half the 8200s are on south and west side routes. So that only leaves half of 8200-and all 8300s at FG. Very uneven distribution if you ask me. CTA should return the 8200s they took from FG back. I feel at some point knowing CTA and the mayoral elections. I could see CTA removing some new Novas from FG again so that the south and west sides can continue to have more newer buses. 

Last time I checked, the South Side is much bigger  than the Northwest Side.  The north side equivalent would include Evanston and Wilmette.  Remember, the South Side has THREE garages.  Two of those three have routes that serve the NORTH side of the city.  Of the two West Side garages, only C has Novas and it has routes serving the North Side.

You are walking a very fine line with your insinuations.   Be careful.

[BusHunter]

17 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Last time I checked, the South Side is much bigger  than the Northwest Side.  The north side equivalent would include Evanston and Wilmette.  Remember, the South Side has THREE garages.  Two of those three have routes that serve the NORTH side of the city.  Of the two West Side garages, only C has Novas and it has routes serving the North Side.

You are walking a very fine line with your insinuations.   Be careful.

But wrigleyville is not the nw side

[artthouwill]

11 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

But wrigleyville is not the nw side

It is the NORTH Side.  Last I checked the 8, 9 and 49 are served by South Side garages and the 53 and 54 are covered by a West Side garage.

[sw4400]

Let's not have another lockout here guys, please!

 

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, XE NewFlyer said:

 

The best option i see is to convert the 77 ENTIRELY to artics from NP or K. Schedule changes will need to be made or the entire route is a mess. I would say -30% Runs during Rush -20% weekdays -10% on Saturdays and - 1 or 2 on Sundays, just a Guess. Nevertheless this will not only mostly solve the absence of new buses at FG. It will also reduce the route's carbon footprint. The dwell time problem dosen't quite make sense to me yet. I know what it is but i don't know why or how it happens. As far as i can see dwell time on 40 footers will be longer with all the people squirming around each other on those packed buses. 

Going by what Andre said a while back the added dwell time from an artic is minimal but when you add that up to every block along a local route it adds up along with slower Accel and having to pull back into traffic. Then those fouled dwell times are what start bus bumching. Now what doesn't make sense is why 79th still turns every 3rd bus at Wentworth considering that was due to artic's being there. TBH cta tried to go the same failed route that Seattle did as far as subbing longer buses for frequency. 

[Mr.cta85]

1 hour ago, sw4400 said:

Let's not have another lockout here guys, please!

 

Agreed ????

[BusHunter]

35 minutes ago, Mr.cta85 said:

Agreed ????

What's wrong cant take the heat.  That's why it's a forum to debate. I'm keeping it civil. Besides you got what you want so you dont need to argue. I'm arguing for my rights to equality as a transit rider. Nothing wrong with that. If no one ever made a stand for peoples rights we would be in a dictatorship. That's what democracy is all about. Now back to our scheduled debate.....

[BusHunter]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

It is the NORTH Side.  Last I checked the 8, 9 and 49 are served by South Side garages and the 53 and 54 are covered by a West Side garage.

But technically chicago garage is on the north side. 74th could be viewed as sw side. Doesnt matter 103rd is serving the se side not the south side. Fg will still get what it gets and 103rd will get what it gets. Whether that is fair is in the eye of the beholder. 

[Mr.cta85]

5 hours ago, BusHunter said:

What's wrong cant take the heat.  That's why it's a forum to debate. I'm keeping it civil. Besides you got what you want so you dont need to argue. I'm arguing for my rights to equality as a transit rider. Nothing wrong with that. If no one ever made a stand for peoples rights we would be in a dictatorship. That's what democracy is all about. Now back to our scheduled debate.....

??? can't take the heat?? Lol nah I'm good.  You say you're talking about equality but still missing the point of it.  You're upset about 18 buses missing from FG when that garage still has 89 new 1's. I never said we got Novas because of their shields alone so the whole 10% thing you mentioned is irrelevant. You're talking about 77 ridership the same as 79 which may be true but my point wasnt based on ridership. As a operator I don't mind a crowded bus full of people, the difference is up north those same group of people all paid their fare and gave me no problems, when out south you have people mad because you requested the fare so now they not only mad but wanna fight, cuss you out, or spit on you over $2.50 which a lot don't have based on my experience for various reasons. So even if the shields alone was based on our reasons for getting the novas, we would still be shorthanded in comparison but at least we have something better than none at all. That's why I said what I said about FG being a breeze as far as route wise, not by ridership numbers but by the drama and things that happen to operators. You're the only 1 who complains about FG being treated unfairly which is funny cause I know a few operators out that garage who are actually glad they have more flyers there than Novas because most of us prefer the flyers anyway because they move faster and the breaks are smoother lol. You can't say the NW side gets the short hand of the stick when you now have Novas across the whole city. Although we're just "debating" I dont want this topic to get closed down again because of it so that's why I agreed to stop the back and forth.

[Sam92]

51 minutes ago, Mr.cta85 said:

??? can't take the heat?? Lol nah I'm good.  You say you're talking about equality but still missing the point of it.  You're upset about 18 buses missing from FG when that garage still has 89 new 1's. I never said we got Novas because of their shields alone so the whole 10% thing you mentioned is irrelevant. You're talking about 77 ridership the same as 79 which may be true but my point wasnt based on ridership. As a operator I don't mind a crowded bus full of people, the difference is up north those same group of people all paid their fare and gave me no problems, when out south you have people mad because you requested the fare so now they not only mad but wanna fight, cuss you out, or spit on you over $2.50 which a lot don't have based on my experience for various reasons. So even if the shields alone was based on our reasons for getting the novas, we would still be shorthanded in comparison but at least we have something better than none at all. That's why I said what I said about FG being a breeze as far as route wise, not by ridership numbers but by the drama and things that happen to operators. You're the only 1 who complains about FG being treated unfairly which is funny cause I know a few operators out that garage who are actually glad they have more flyers there than Novas because most of us prefer the flyers anyway because they move faster and the breaks are smoother lol. You can't say the NW side gets the short hand of the stick when you now have Novas across the whole city. Although we're just "debating" I dont want this topic to get closed down again because of it so that's why I agreed to stop the back and forth.

There was never room to say NW got stiffed to begin with. 74th was all 6000's for a good while, Kedzie has oldest artics and middle flyers, 103rd got hit with the oldest NF after rehab so every part of the city gets shafted in someway if we wanna keep nitpicking. A Novas a Nova The Glen finally got some let it rest. With no heavy downtown routes and light midday and weekends service wise the old Nova's are getting plenty rest and time. 103rd maintenance couldn't keep up with 6400s compared to FG. notice up till a few years ago they used to borrow like crazy from 77th?

[BusHunter]

I'm not upset about 18 buses. I upset about the 36 8200 buses fg lost, I'm upset about them still running 18 year old buses with no replacement in site. I'm upset about them not getting nfs originally. It's just a continual shafting. I dont expect you to understand. You can only understand if you step in our shoes. It is what it is. I'm just surprised ridership hasnt really dropped because when something is neglected it's no longer attractive to use. I stopped using the system I'm sure theres others like me. Im tired of riding old junk. Theres way better ways to travel than cta.  Kick a dog and he wont come back same concept. 

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

I'm not upset about 18 buses. I upset about the 36 8200 buses fg lost, I'm upset about them still running 18 year old buses with no replacement in site. I'm upset about them not getting nfs originally. It's just a continual shafting. I dont expect you to understand. You can only understand if you step in our shoes. It is what it is. I'm just surprised ridership hasnt really dropped because when something is neglected it's no longer attractive to use. I stopped using the system I'm sure theres others like me. Im tired of riding old junk. Theres way better ways to travel than cta.  Kick a dog and he wont come back same concept. 

We have been in your shoes and that's what you refuse to get