7900-series Nova LFS - Updates

[TripleTransit1]

Getting closer to the end of the 7900-block...

To be delivered from NovaBus:

7902,7905,7911,7912,7916,7918,7930,7938,7942,7943,7948,7949,7950,7951,7953,7958,7967,7976,7992,

7993,7994,7997,7998

(23 Buses to be delivered)

Delivered from NovaBus, awaiting first assignment:

7913,7919,7922,7929,7933,7936,7939,7945,7946,7952,7957,7961,7996,7999

(14 Buses on CTA Property awaiting assignment)

(37 Buses in the 7900-block total remaining)

Given two major holidays in the next two months(Thanksgiving & Christmas), no doubt NovaBus will shut down building and deliveries of buses for a week or two near the holidays so workers can spend time with loved ones. So all the remaining to be delivered(in gray) will probably be delivered throughout November and December sans Holiday breaks, and the 8000-block will begin to be built and delivered after January 1, 2015 with the 8000-block and 8100-block being completed near the end of 2015. The option for the 150, if exercised(still pending at this post) will no doubt be built and delivered in 2016.

That's good to know so that people won't be asking about any hold-ups on future deliveries.

[BusHunter]

Getting closer to the end of the 7900-block...

To be delivered from NovaBus:

7902,7905,7911,7912,7916,7918,7930,7938,7942,7943,7948,7949,7950,7951,7953,7958,7967,7976,7992,

7993,7994,7997,7998

(23 Buses to be delivered)

Delivered from NovaBus, awaiting first assignment:

7913,7919,7922,7929,7933,7936,7939,7945,7946,7952,7957,7961,7996,7999

(14 Buses on CTA Property awaiting assignment)

(37 Buses in the 7900-block total remaining)

Given two major holidays in the next two months(Thanksgiving & Christmas), no doubt NovaBus will shut down building and deliveries of buses for a week or two near the holidays so workers can spend time with loved ones. So all the remaining to be delivered(in gray) will probably be delivered throughout November and December sans Holiday breaks, and the 8000-block will begin to be built and delivered after January 1, 2015 with the 8000-block and 8100-block being completed near the end of 2015. The option for the 150, if exercised(still pending at this post) will no doubt be built and delivered in 2016.

#7958's been in service for a week, I have pictures of it on page 22 of this same thread. Also #7992 is at south shops. I think we're going to see the start of the #8000's in December and maybe a slowdown after XMas when the really crappy weather gets here.

[jajuan]

It should be fairly obvious that any slowdowns in the near feature could be explained as being due to holidays and as Bushunter just pointed out potential bad weather from the upcoming winter. And by Bushunter's count, we're only actually talking about around 20 buses out of the 79xx block to be delivered into CTA's possession since about 80 are in their possession now (65 in service + 15 awaiting final checks at South Shops before release to revenue service).

[BusHunter]

#7992 is on the #24.

[BusHunter]

#7913 is on the #87

[BusHunter]

#7922 is on the #2.

[BusHunter]

#7939 is on the #2. #7961 is also out here on the #2.

[garmon757]

#7938 and #7942 have arrived.

[BusHunter]

#7939 is on the #2. #7961 is also out here on the #2.

Here's some shots of the two newest in service Novas at 77th, #7939 and #7961

[Busjack]

.... Novas I believe were purchased with the idea of saving money using a few compatible parts off the other #6400's....

What ever gave you that idea? CTA issued specs in 2012 and apparently Nova met them, notwithstanding numerous "we kindly request." NF also apparently had trouble meeting CTA specs, given that it had numerous requests, too.

Somehow people on chicagobus.org still think that a 2014 Nova is the same as a 2001 Nova, notwithstanding that the current ones have a 2013 compliant engine and all the Nova Smart Bus features advertised, and also a rear engine.

So are you now saying that NF has the [next potential] 2019 procurement sewed up because CTA can salvage parts from the 2006 models? That would be preposterous.

[BusHunter]

#7946 is on the #8.

So Busjack before you get too excited, your telling me a bus coming from the same manufacturer is completely different even though it looks the same. That's like saying the GM New Looks don't have any compatible parts on them between the 60's and 70's. Now at least an Xcelsior does not look like an LF.

[Busjack]

#7946 is on the #8.

So Busjack before you get too excited, your telling me a bus coming from the same manufacturer is completely different even though it looks the same. That's like saying the GM New Looks don't have any compatible parts on them between the 60's and 70's. Now at least an Xcelsior does not look like an LF.

Not enough common parts that it would justify a variance from a specification published to all bidders. NF then would have a basis to protest to the FTA.

Do you go to a salvage yard to get 20 year old parts for your car (assuming you have one)? Or, at a minimum, that a 20 year old Corolla is the same as a new one?

For that matter, the New Looks in the 1970s had significantly different parts than those coming before. I guess, though, in 1972, CTA should have stayed with Flxible rather than buy 1870 GMs, considering that it had only 305 GMs, if we accept this theory,

[garmon757]

sw4400, you forgot to add #7997 into the waiting for assignment list.

[jajuan]

Here's some shots of the two newest in service Novas at 77th, #7939 and #7961

cta 7939 on 2.PNG cta 7961 on 2.PNG

These shots made it clearer that it never occurred to me that CTA is getting rid of the bluish tint in the lighting on the 1630s through the rehabbing of the 1000s but still have bluish tinted lighting in some of its 40 foot buses by way of the 7900s.

[BusHunter]

Here's a shot of #7992:

[sw4400]

What ever gave you that idea? CTA issued specs in 2012 and apparently Nova met them, notwithstanding numerous "we kindly request." NF also apparently had trouble meeting CTA specs, given that it had numerous requests, too.

Somehow people on chicagobus.org still think that a 2014 Nova is the same as a 2001 Nova, notwithstanding that the current ones have a 2013 compliant engine and all the Nova Smart Bus features advertised, and also a rear engine.

So are you now saying that NF has the [next potential] 2019 procurement sewed up because CTA can salvage parts from the 2006 models? That would be preposterous.

They are similar on the exterior and in the interior a bit too. Parts can be interchanged if needed, and no doubt the buses that are retired that have parts in decent condition will be stripped and reused again.

Why do you think the 5900's are pretty much stripped? Their body parts were used on the 5800's and some of their subsequent parts were used on the 1000's when needed for repairs.

Obviously, mechanically the buses are incompatible(6400's-Cummins ISC, 7900's-Cummins ISL9, 5800's- Detroit Series-50, 1000's-Cummins ISM, ISL), but body-wise, parts can be reused to save money and recycle rather than scrap. Remember how 6131 had a 6000-Series Flxible front door for the right half and a 5300-Series Flxible front door for the left half? I do.... I even remember some Flxibles having steering wheels that said "TMC" on the horn pad.

[Busjack]

...

Why do you think the 5900's are pretty much stripped? Their body parts were used on the 5800's and some of their subsequent parts were used on the 1000's when needed for repairs.

...

If you are saying superficial stuff like windows, they were both --:40LF and of exactly the same age.

But not even the window arrangements of the 6400s and 7900s are the same.

Maybe you can answer the question why the 900s apparently were not stripped before they were auctioned. (See pictures on auction site; those bodies look in pretty good condition).

But more importantly, that couldn't have been the basis for BusHunter's unsubstantiated claim WHY 7900s were purchased from Nova.

[sw4400]

If you are saying superficial stuff like windows, they were both --:40LF and of exactly the same age.

But not even the window arrangements of the 6400s and 7900s are the same.

1. Maybe you can answer the question why the 900s apparently were not stripped before they were auctioned. (See pictures on auction site; those bodies look in pretty good condition).

2. But more importantly, that couldn't have been the basis for BusHunter's unsubstantiated claim WHY 7900s were purchased from Nova.

1. Because the buses are only 7 years old and are in great condition overall... the only issue is the fact that the powertrains are manufactured by ISE, which is bankrupt making parts hard to get. These buses can get a second life somewhere else to whomever wishes to purchase and gut and rebuild them. With enough time and money put in, you can change these DE40LF's back to D40LF's by taking out the Hybrid components and installing a Cummins engine into the bus, or perhaps just implant a different style Hybrid engine into the bus(like the GM/Allison version). Either way, the CTA didn't merit putting probably 1M+ dollars into a powertrain overhaul for just ten buses, but a private company may find it worth the money since the actual bus shells are just 7 years of age.

2. CTA kind of hinted just before the bid went out that they were open to other manufacturers bidding on the bus order(a subtle hint they didn't want New Flyer to sew up the roster 100%... they already had a good 70-75% of the roster). With little options, even I speculated that Nova was high on the candidate list being back on the U.S Market now. CTA had pretty good history with them before. Other manufacturers(Orion, Eldorado) CTA had little to no history with, and some(NABI) CTA wouldn't want to probably have any business with again.

I don't honestly understand why or how BusHunter came up with the thought that Nova was purchased to recycle Nova parts.... that just happened to be who CTA got the winning bid from.

[busfan2847]

1. Because the buses are only 7 years old and are in great condition overall... the only issue is the fact that the powertrains are manufactured by ISE, which is bankrupt making parts hard to get. These buses can get a second life somewhere else to whomever wishes to purchase and gut and rebuild them. With enough time and money put in, you can change these DE40LF's back to D40LF's by taking out the Hybrid components and installing a Cummins engine into the bus, or perhaps just implant a different style Hybrid engine into the bus(like the GM/Allison version). Either way, the CTA didn't merit putting probably 1M+ dollars into a powertrain overhaul for just ten buses, but a private company may find it worth the money since the actual buses are just 7 years of age.

Except that cta has sold them with the following requirement

"Purchaser hereby guarantees to the CTA that Purchaser is purchasing the Scrap Used Buses as scrap metal and that Purchaser shall not utilize nor allow the Scrap Used Buses for the transportation of persons or property."

[Busjack]

1. Because the buses are only 7 years old and are in great condition overall... the only issue is the fact that the powertrains are manufactured by ISE, which is bankrupt making parts hard to get. These buses can get a second life somewhere else to whomever wishes to purchase and gut and rebuild them. With enough time and money put in, you can change these DE40LF's back to D40LF's by taking out the Hybrid components and installing a Cummins engine into the bus, or perhaps just implant a different style Hybrid engine into the bus(like the GM/Allison version). Either way, the CTA didn't merit putting probably 1M+ dollars into a powertrain overhaul for just ten buses, but a private company may find it worth the money since the actual buses are just 7 years of age.

2. CTA kind of hinted just before the bid went out that they were open to other manufacturers bidding on the bus order(a subtle hint they didn't want New Flyer to sew up the roster 100%... they already had a good 70-75% of the roster). With little options, even I speculated that Nova was high on the candidate list being back on the U.S Market now. CTA had pretty good history with them before. Other manufacturers(Orion, Eldorado) CTA had little to no history with, and some(NABI) CTA wouldn't want to probably have any business with again.

I don't honestly understand why or how BusHunter came up with the thought that Nova was purchased to recycle Nova parts.... that just happened to be who CTA got the winning bid from.

1. If you looked at the auction site, it has the standard CTA scrap conditions:

SCRAP USED BUSES SOLD AS SCRAP METAL

Purchaser hereby guarantees to the CTA that Purchaser is purchasing the Scrap Used Buses as scrap metal and that Purchaser shall not utilize nor allow the Scrap Used Buses for the transportation of persons or property.

In short, whoever paid $21,000 for them is not legally authorized to refurbish them, and will incur legal liability to CTA if they do and something happens. (I see that busfan2847 beat me to it).

2. If nothing else, the Q&A (by asking and CTA publishing what was being used on existing buses, including the 1030 New Flyers) would seem to indicate that they wanted something like the 1000s, although not to the extent of the first 7000s spec to the 5000s.

3. I agree on that one.

Update: If you want to speculate about refurbishing, CTA had a solicitation about 15 years ago to repower the 5900s as diesel. Nothing came of that, either.

[sw4400]

1. If you looked at the auction site, it has the standard CTA scrap conditions:

In short, whoever paid $21,000 for them is not legally authorized to refurbish them, and will incur legal liability to CTA if they do and something happens. (I see that busfan2847 beat me to it).

2. If nothing else, the Q&A (by asking and CTA publishing what was being used on existing buses, including the 1030 New Flyers) would seem to indicate that they wanted something like the 1000s, although not to the extent of the first 7000s spec to the 5000s.

3. I agree on that one.

Update: If you want to speculate about refurbishing, CTA had a solicitation about 15 years ago to repower the 5900s as diesel. Nothing came of that, either.

1. I'm pretty sure the CTA of the past had the same thing in mind when they put #301, #9799 and #1606 out to pasture(the only difference is CTA didn't want #1606 running like #301 and #9799 were, they purposely seized the motor, making the bus a paperweight). I'm sure all of these were sold with a scrap title when their series was retired from revenue service.

2. I remember reading a little bit about the solicitation on the 7900's.... the CTA said they welcomed bids from other manufacturers other than New Flyer, which kinda meant they were looking elsewhere for this order. If nobody else offered a bid the CTA liked, they would've probably went with New Flyer.

As far as turning the 5900's from Hydrogen to Diesel, when the CTA got the cost of the bids, they probably said "Scrap them, it isn't worth the money for just three buses." Same with the 900's... the CTA could put out repowering bids, but is it really worth the money for just ten buses? If it was a substantial amount of property, the CTA would've probably done it.

[Busjack]

.....

2. I remember reading a little bit about the solicitation on the 7900's.... the CTA said they welcomed bids from other manufacturers other than New Flyer, which kinda meant they were looking elsewhere for this order. If nobody else offered a bid the CTA liked, they would've probably went with New Flyer.

....

Whatever they said or didn't say, if federal funds were involved, CTA would have had to comply with federal bidding guidelines. Regardless of whether the money eventually came from the feds, the solicitation states that it must meet federal requirements (Section 5, paragraphs FR1 and following). There is also a protest procedure.

Sure, CTA is going to encourage others to bid, but isn't going to telegraph in advance that it wants a particular vendor. That wouldn't be any different than the protest to the FTA with regard to the single source MAN 4400 series spec.in the late 1980s. The 4400s didn't turn out to be MANs, did they?

[BusHunter]

#7919 is on the #8, #7996 has also shown up on the #8.

[BusHunter]

Damn #7945 is out on the #8 too.

[Mr.cta85]

Cta5658 said reported 7933 as a J14 how bout that!!! Lol