sw4400 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 3 hours ago, BusHunter said: Yeah I thought I might have scared everyone off with my hot forecast. Lol!! But there out here. I'm on one now testing the AC. They seem to be better it's like you say just don't sit in the rear. The front isn't all that great either but there's like 8 seats beyond the back door that are alright. That's where I'll be sitting. #8200 #8201 #8204 and #8206 are out here on the west end. Random thought based on the picture comparison of #6738 and #8021's HVAC Unit. Could size..... well..... matter?(not trying to sound smart or crass or start the "That's what she said" jokes, but seriously) A smaller HVAC Unit on a 40' bus may not be able to cover the same area as the larger HVAC Unit on the older Novas, hence why they feel cooler in the summer than the newer Novas do. Thermo King HVAC on #6738 starts at the 1st window behind the driver and runs to the beginning of the 4th window. On #8021, the Thermo King HVAC starts at the 2nd window and runs to the beginning of the 4th window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Could be the case. I don't know but it seems like the air is running, you can hear it, it's just not flowing which sounds like the fan on the blower motor is not so good. I know the optimas for instance had terrific ac, that was probably the best thing about them. The fan force was at least double to triple what it is on these #7900's. Probably the specs that thermo king or whoever churned out for these #7900's was what was deemed as passible, not necessarily built for comfort. This is where CTA needs to be doing their homework and say hey wait a minute beef that up a little. In Canada they don't need much AC. In a hot weather market like New Orleans or Miami they must really be complaining. Maybe most Novabus purchases are in the north. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 2 hours ago, sw4400 said: Random thought based on the picture comparison of #6738 and #8021's HVAC Unit. Could size..... well..... matter?(not trying to sound smart or crass or start the "That's what she said" jokes, but seriously) A smaller HVAC Unit on a 40' bus may not be able to cover the same area as the larger HVAC Unit on the older Novas, hence why they feel cooler in the summer than the newer Novas do. Thermo King HVAC on #6738 starts at the 1st window behind the driver and runs to the beginning of the 4th window. On #8021, the Thermo King HVAC starts at the 2nd window and runs to the beginning of the 4th window. 1 hour ago, BusHunter said: Could be the case. I don't know but it seems like the air is running, you can hear it, it's just not flowing which sounds like the fan on the blower motor is not so good. I know the optimas for instance had terrific ac, that was probably the best thing about them. The fan force was at least double to triple what it is on these #7900's. Probably the specs that thermo king or whoever churned out for these #7900's was what was deemed as passible, not necessarily built for comfort. This is where CTA needs to be doing their homework and say hey wait a minute beef that up a little. In Canada they don't need much AC. In a hot weather market like New Orleans or Miami they must really be complaining. Maybe most Novabus purchases are in the north. It shouldn't matter. Remember the 1000s don't have roof mounted air conditioners. Neither did the 4000s, 5300s, and 6000s. And the A/C on all these cooled those buses perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 11 minutes ago, jajuan said: Neither did the 4000s The artics do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 5 minutes ago, Busjack said: The artics do. Oops, I mistyped. I meant 4400s. But speaking of the artics, their A/Cs don't take up much roof space relatively speaking. Yet they still cool all 60 feet per bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 1 hour ago, jajuan said: It shouldn't matter. Remember the 1000s don't have roof mounted air conditioners. Neither did the 4000s, 5300s, and 6000s. And the A/C on all these cooled those buses perfectly. The 1000's might have similarly sized HVAC units in the back area, or one heck of a blower motor, though.... it is noisy back there with the A/C running. Maybe that's the problem with the new Novas.... too small of a HVAC unit, blower motor, or both. Specs on Chicagobus.org don't have model or size of the HVAC units, nor could I find it by doing a search of 2000-2002 Nova Bus LFS Specs in Google Search. It mentions engine types and says they installed HVAC Units, but nothing about model or size of the units themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 #8215 has began service while on #77 right now. Also, #8207 was operating #N81 making it the first new bus on behalf of Forest Glen to run night owl. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 7 hours ago, sw4400 said: The 1000's might have similarly sized HVAC units in the back area, or one heck of a blower motor, though.... it is noisy back there with the A/C running. Maybe that's the problem with the new Novas.... too small of a HVAC unit, blower motor, or both. Specs on Chicagobus.org don't have model or size of the HVAC units, nor could I find it by doing a search of 2000-2002 Nova Bus LFS Specs in Google Search. It mentions engine types and says they installed HVAC Units, but nothing about model or size of the units themselves. You're missing my point. Size should not matter as much, or else all home A/C units folks by to fit in a window and cool a room would have to be monster size units that need more than one person to move around instead of one person of moderate strength. 2 hours ago, garmon757 said: #8215 has began service while on #77 right now. Also, #8207 was operating #N81 making it the first new bus on behalf of Forest Glen to run night owl. It would seem 8207 was also be the first FG new Nova seen on a route other than 76 and 77. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 1 hour ago, jajuan said: It would seem 8207 was also be the first FG new Nova seen on a route other than 76 and 77. Very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 4 hours ago, jajuan said: You're missing my point. Size should not matter as much, or else all home A/C units folks by to fit in a window and cool a room would have to be monster size units that need more than one person to move around instead of one person of moderate strength. I kind of have to disagree, jajuan. I live in a three bedroom apt., and in order to have the whole house cooled with window A/C(which we don't use, we just use fans now), we would need two A/C units as one would not be sufficient. One in the front of the house and one in the rear. Size of the unit in a location may determine how effective the units are, and the unit is noticeably smaller on the newer Novas. Something is different with these new ThermoKing units on them that make them less effective than their 6400-Series counterparts or the newly rehabbed 1000-Series New Flyer D40LF's. Right now, since the bus is 40', and both these series of buses can work fine with their A/C units, the possibility is that maybe the units are undersized and/or underpowered. It's a possibility that has to be considered, jajuan. Might have something to do with the eCooling system on the back(the fin)..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 17 minutes ago, sw4400 said: Might have something to do with the eCooling system on the back(the fin)..... Which isn't the air conditioner, but engine cooling as the video points out. Would be consistent with what BusHunter said about the back being hot and Andre saying that that hatch was open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 50 minutes ago, Busjack said: Which isn't the air conditioner, but engine cooling as the video points out. Would be consistent with what BusHunter said about the back being hot and Andre saying that that hatch was open. I think it also has to do with design, the interior rear on these buses are higher or vaulted so that air is higher and can't be felt. They are effectively cooling the ceiling. That's why the 8 seats behind the back door work because the ceiling is lower there and you can't feel it in the front because you're a good 5-6 feet from the ceiling in a seated position. Now should they have had a better fan, yes they should. Out of all the buses I've been on and that includes the TMC's these have the weakest AC (of course we're not counting buses without AC) as you barely feel it and in some places you can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Just passed #8201 in service on the #92 at long eb. #6806 is it's leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 just looked at the glen #8206 -#8208 and #8215 are in the yard. #8200, #8203 and #8204 were in the #77 #8201 was on the #92. So maybe #8202 and #8205 are out in service somewhere. #8214 is in the 3rd yard along with #8210. I took some pictures over here I'll be sharing those this evening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 6 hours ago, sw4400 said: I kind of have to disagree, jajuan. I live in a three bedroom apt., and in order to have the whole house cooled with window A/C(which we don't use, we just use fans now), we would need two A/C units as one would not be sufficient. One in the front of the house and one in the rear. Size of the unit in a location may determine how effective the units are, and the unit is noticeably smaller on the newer Novas. Something is different with these new ThermoKing units on them that make them less effective than their 6400-Series counterparts or the newly rehabbed 1000-Series New Flyer D40LF's. Right now, since the bus is 40', and both these series of buses can work fine with their A/C units, the possibility is that maybe the units are undersized and/or underpowered. It's a possibility that has to be considered, jajuan. Might have something to do with the eCooling system on the back(the fin)..... Still missed my point. I said an A/C unit to cool one room, not the whole house. Window units for the home aren't meant to cool the whole house. For that you need one of those units with the big blow fans that sit outside of the home and are about the size in height and diameter of one of the city's black alley trash dumpsters. Besides the A/C may appear smaller on a 7900's roof than one atop a 6400, but like a 6400 the vents for it on the middle part of the bus ceiling take up more than half the bus's length. So for the designed purpose the slight difference of size should not matter as I stated. Busjack caught on from Andre's post that the engine cooling system might be contributing to the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 4 hours ago, BusHunter said: They are effectively cooling the ceiling. Cold air sinks. Maybe you are more concerned with the wind speed rather than temperature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 3 hours ago, BusHunter said: just looked at the glen #8206 -#8208 and #8215 are in the yard. #8200, #8203 and #8204 were in the #77 #8201 was on the #92. So maybe #8202 and #8205 are out in service somewhere. #8214 is in the 3rd yard along with #8210. I took some pictures over here I'll be sharing those this evening Here's some pictures of new novas at FG, I left these big so you can zoom them up if you want to see bus numbers etc BTW, I found #8202 it was in the 3rd yard the whole time!! Strange no #8209. It must be around FG somewhere or it was in service. That's #8210 in the distance, you can zoom it up. 3rd yard seems really full this time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 9 hours ago, jajuan said: Still missed my point. I said an A/C unit to cool one room, not the whole house. Window units for the home aren't meant to cool the whole house. For that you need one of those units with the big blow fans that sit outside of the home and are about the size in height and diameter of one of the city's black alley trash dumpsters. Besides the A/C may appear smaller on a 7900's roof than one atop a 6400, but like a 6400 the vents for it on the middle part of the bus ceiling take up more than half the bus's length. So for the designed purpose the slight difference of size should not matter as I stated. Busjack caught on from Andre's post that the engine cooling system might be contributing to the problem. There's little that can be done if the eCooling System is contributing or causing the problem. Personally, I've been in several #8000's and one #8100 on Friday, and while not 95 degree hot, it was 86-88 degree hot(more like 93-95 with Heat Index), and it was comfortable in the Novas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Express Flyer Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 Sat night I saw 8207 on 81. Their definitely moving them around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 15 minutes ago, Express Flyer said: Sat night I saw 8207 on 81. Their definitely moving them around. Haven't yet rode one on #80 or #152. Maybe soon, but it all depends on volume of new Novas assigned at the time I pick it up and a little luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusOps Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 #8195 in accident with CPD vehicle on Pulaski. A few passengers injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 17 hours ago, sw4400 said: There's little that can be done if the eCooling System is contributing or causing the problem. Personally, I've been in several #8000's and one #8100 on Friday, and while not 95 degree hot, it was 86-88 degree hot(more like 93-95 with Heat Index), and it was comfortable in the Novas. I've rode on Ashland on a few hotter days this year seated in positions where engine exhaust heat has been observed to overtake the A/C, and the ride has been of relative comfort. So it appears they've caught that particular issue and have been working on it. The only problem now seems to be what happens on other buses, getting caught in a seat on the sun side of the bus and having the window glass amplify the heat from the sun on a day that the sun is blaring with little to know clouds in the sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 31 minutes ago, jajuan said: The only problem now seems to be what happens on other buses, getting caught in a seat on the sun side of the bus and having the window glass amplify the heat from the sun on a day that the sun is blaring with little to know clouds in the sky. Isn't the Lexan tinted? Those aren't glass windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 3 minutes ago, Busjack said: Isn't the Lexan tinted? Those aren't glass windows. Ok I stand corrected about the windows not being glass, but I think everyone still gets my point. There are days where the glare of the sun as well as the sun's angle both contribute to the tint not quite being high enough to keep from feeling yourself warm up some despite the A/C being at an otherwise comfortable intensity. Nature still trumps technology here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 2 hours ago, jajuan said: Ok I stand corrected about the windows not being glass, but I think everyone still gets my point. There are days where the glare of the sun as well as the sun's angle both contribute to the tint not quite being high enough to keep from feeling yourself warm up some despite the A/C being at an otherwise comfortable intensity. Nature still trumps technology here and there. Yes but that shouldn't be trumping a new bus. If it trumps a new bus what will it be doing in 5 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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