Routes that need Artics or Increased Service

[Brandon93]

I decided to start this thread after having an experience on the 155. Every time I ride the 155 it's crowded and I think Devon could benefit from artics. Anyone have thoughts of a route that could use artics or increased service?

[artthouwill]

I decided to start this thread after having an experience on the 155. Every time I ride the 155 it's crowded and I think Devon could benefit from artics. Anyone have thoughts of a route that could use artics or increased service?

I would say no. First, Devon is a narrow street and it is already congested. Adding artics would make it worse. Secondly, though the buses may be crowded, that alone doesn't justify artic service.

Perhaps an increase in service, I could go along with that as it would only need to add a couple of buses or so, seeing how short a route it is.

[Brandon93]

I've seen artics get down Sheridan & Sheridan is also narrow. Also I heard artics being on Broadway on a couple of occasions.

[artthouwill]

I've seen artics get down Sheridan & Sheridan is also narrow. Also I heard artics being on Broadway on a couple of occasions.

The 151 Sheridan route is a heavy route, especially in downtown and upt to Belmont, which is why half of the buses on that route short turn at Belmont. Even the short turn route is longer than Devon, and serves way many more people in a higher density area. Sheridan Rd north of Hollywood is 2 lanes in each direction, certainly capable of handling artics. Sheridan between Lake Shore and Hollywood doesn't have the commercial traffic that Devon has (that traffic would run on Broadway) There is no comparison.

[NewFlyerMCI]

I'll take a crack, although this has been discussed numerous times by myself and others.

Artics:

9 Ashland

-> At 2012, it ousted the 79 from its throne of route w/ highest ridership, where it had lain there for a long, long time.

-> Multi-Laned street

79 79th

-> Until 2012, was the route w/ highest ridership, now sits in 2nd place ever since

-> Almost always crowded, especially btwn Lakefron & Halsted

-> Prevelant congestion from Dan Ryan to Stony Isl.

49 Western

-> Another "backbone" route

-> Multi-Laned

-> Extreme rush-hour crowding

8 Halsted

-> Backbone route

-> Multi-Laned

-> UIC passenger base

77 Belmont

-> Heavy passenger base

-> Extreme rush-hour crowding

-> Extreme congestion

3/4 King Dr/Cottage Dr

-> Backbone route

-> Multi-Laned

-> Heavy passenger base

-> CSU & UoC (4) passenger base

-> Mag Mile & Downtown.

The list goes on..

[Sam92]

Before I start some of this is based on a hypothetical situation in which FG and 74th were in positions to accommodate artics.

2 Hyde Park Express - to help then out loads in the peak of rush hour

3 King Drive - route has pretty heavy ridership north of 79th

4 Cottage Grove - Has significant crowding as far south as 87th due to people making trips to downtown either for a one seat ride, or via the Green Line or 2 Hyde Park (which both are a big source of crowds for the 4) Also a lot of students traveling to various high schools/colleges along or nearby the route)

8 Halsted - Strong ridership base with a significant amount of traffic generators among the route

9 Ashland - Busiest route in system with large groups of people traveling to various points among route such as Illinois Medical District

20 Madison - Route sees significant ridership before even leaving the loop boundaries.

21 Cermak - While not needed on a large scale North Riverside attracts many crowds for the 21.

34 South Michigan/119 Michigan/119th - a few artics on this route would greatly assist in the rush hour along with the carver h.s trips

49 Western - Very strong ridership overall

53 Pulaski/53A South Pulaski - whole corridor sees pretty good ridership along with curie h.s crowds on the south end

55 Garfield - could mainly run on the St. Louis trips to handle ridership between Green Line and Gage Park area

63 63rd a few in the rush couldn't hurt

65 Grand - strong ridership base from navy pier and river north areas

72- North Ave. - strong ridership

77 Belmont - very strong route overall

79 79th - extremely high ridership along most of the route

80 Irving Park - Heard from other posts that this route could use a few

87 87th - 77th dropped the ball on this one when they had enough to assign some here. CVCA h.s is like the lane tech of the south side for this one .

[BusHunter]

One thing that I was thinking about today was I wonder why they just don't try to run #87's to Ford City? It would seem that the #67 has taken away a few riders from the #79 because now those riders have options at Ford City versus one bus going east on 79th.

As far as artics on FG routes I would say that almost has zero chance of happening, but if anything ever happened to Fg then those routes could see a few artics here and there. The #80 could use one for Lakeview HS even if it ran as a short trip to the #54A terminal, it could then deadhead to the loop via expy.

[mkohut]

Pace has 383 going there.There is no need for 87 to go to Ford City.

[jajuan]

The 151 Sheridan route is a heavy route, especially in downtown and upt to Belmont, which is why half of the buses on that route short turn at Belmont. Even the short turn route is longer than Devon, and serves way many more people in a higher density area. Sheridan Rd north of Hollywood is 2 lanes in each direction, certainly capable of handling artics. Sheridan between Lake Shore and Hollywood doesn't have the commercial traffic that Devon has (that traffic would run on Broadway) There is no comparison.

Actually Sheridan is 2 lanes in each direction north of Foster, but I still agree with you. The same is true for that small stretch between Diversey and Belmont. (Yes folks that's actually Sheridan along that part where 151, 156 and WB 77 buses run, and not Inner Drive ).

Pace has 383 going there.There is no need for 87 to go to Ford City.

Um 383 is a north-south route though while 87 is east-west. So what does 383 have to do with 87 being routed to take some pressure off the 79 in a similar manner that 67 being at Ford City currently does, which is the manner BusHunter was making the suggestion.

[NewFlyerMCI]

One thing that I was thinking about today was I wonder why they just don't try to run #87's to Ford City? It would seem that the #67 has taken away a few riders from the #79 because now those riders have options at Ford City versus one bus going east on 79th.

That's like an extra 9-10 blocks with an addtional 7-15 travel time for what is supposed to be an east/west route.. It would better to just extend the 54B to 93rd/Kostner (Hope Children's Hospital) or 95th/Kostner (Advocate Christ Medical Center) where there are both turnarounds and riders can transfer for service farther north than Ford City. And where did you get the info for the 67 taking riders away from the 79?

[mkohut]

Actually Sheridan is 2 lanes in each direction north of Foster, but I still agree with you. The same is true for that small stretch between Diversey and Belmont. (Yes folks that's actually Sheridan along that part where 151, 156 and WB 77 buses run, and not Inner Drive ).

Um 383 is a north-south route though while 87 is east-west. So what does 383 have to do with 87 being routed to take some pressure off the 79 in a similar manner that 67 being at Ford City currently does, which is the manner BusHunter was making the suggestion.

The point is how many people transfer at 87th.If there was alot of ridership there I think Pace would add service.Plus,at times 30 minutes on 87.How many people would wait a half hour

[NewFlyerMCI]

The point is how many people transfer at 87th.If there was alot of ridership there I think Pace would add service.Plus,at times 30 minutes on 87.How many people would wait a half hour

If the 87 needs anything, its some artics during rush hour to Cicero OR artics non-rush to Western. Increased service isn't needed, because knowing CTA, they'll just increase the amount of trips to and from Western, which is only going to result in bunching, ghost bussing and crowds of people at a stop. While mkohut is using arbitrary times as his backup (Since the 30 minute intervals to Cicero are those strange midday & Sunday blocks and it typically says something like "10 to 30" or "17 to 30", etc), he does bring up the point of how many people are switching to 383 or better yet, riding to or near the end of the line. Again, while it duplicates slightly, if service is needed, extending the 54B would be a better choice. Pace has more to worry about with the entire 383 and already shortchanges a few trips to Rivercrest S.C. or 104th/Pulaski (Sat. Only) not to mention 30 min intervals during rush hour, while the 54B can do 20 min intervals at certain times of the day on weekends.

tl;dr

87 needs artics on Cicero trips during rush or Western trips during non rush. Increasing service might sound nice, but CTA has priors and will most likely mess it up. If there is service needed, Pace shouldn't try to cover with 383, it has long intervals during rush hour and shortchanges already. Extending the 54B would be more than enough, even though it duplicates service.

[BusHunter]

I was looking at the #53A and thinking CTA always says what's the busiest line. I wonder what the busiest bus stop is? That #53A has quite a load at the Orange line. But i would think the Belmont/Red line stop followed by the Blue line/Belmont stop has to be even busier than that. I know there's also a few spots on the south side too, Garfield at the red line and 79th has got to busy at the red line.

I was also looking at Pulaski on the south side and thinking I wonder if a one lane BRT, rush direction would work well. They have that big island in the center and it doesn't seem to be doing anything. It wouldn't be disruptive to traffic because all lanes of traffic would still exist except maybe a few left turns, but I'm surprised in the computer age they just can't open and close lanes when a bus is tracked as approaching maybe within a mile. For that matter I wonder if they explored a one lane Ashland BRT, just make the buses where they can merge into the left lane if they need to pass each other. It would help the traffic flow and if they ordered buses with doors on both sides they should be able to adapt.

[BusHunter]

That's like an extra 9-10 blocks with an addtional 7-15 travel time for what is supposed to be an east/west route.. It would better to just extend the 54B to 93rd/Kostner (Hope Children's Hospital) or 95th/Kostner (Advocate Christ Medical Center) where there are both turnarounds and riders can transfer for service farther north than Ford City. And where did you get the info for the 67 taking riders away from the 79?

Doesn't it seem like a funny coincidence the #67 started going to Ford City in 2012 and the #79 has lost a few riders since then? A high traffic generator like a mall seems a good enough reason for a modest #87 extension and it could help the #79 by not being so crowded. I bet if the Orange line were extended to Ford City, the #87 would go to it's terminal, so what's the difference?

This concept seems to be working on the NW side, the #78 doesn't have to go to the HIP and Read Mental has been closed for up to 20 years now, (still don't know why the #78's go there) but the fact is it's generating traffic from that mall. The #80 extension from Neenah to Harlem was probably one of the best extensions they ever made on the NW side. The #80 gets alot more ridership because it goes to the mall.

[artthouwill]

Doesn't it seem like a funny coincidence the #67 started going to Ford City in 2012 and the #79 has lost a few riders since then? A high traffic generator like a mall seems a good enough reason for a modest #87 extension and it could help the #79 by not being so crowded. I bet if the Orange line were extended to Ford City, the #87 would go to it's terminal, so what's the difference?

This concept seems to be working on the NW side, the #78 doesn't have to go to the HIP and Read Mental has been closed for up to 20 years now, (still don't know why the #78's go there) but the fact is it's generating traffic from that mall. The #80 extension from Neenah to Harlem was probably one of the best extensions they ever made on the NW side. The #80 gets alot more ridership because it goes to the mall.

I think extending the 87 to Ford City is not a good idea and it is different than the 67 extension. I believe the 2 main reasons that made the 67 extension justifiable were 1) the high traffic generator known as Daley College was 1/2 milel south of the 71st/Pulaski terminal and 2) The SoloCup factory THAT sits halfway between the College and the Mall. This route runs right through impoverished Englewood and a one seat ride to schooling and employment makes as much sense as shopping. Anyone south of 79th wishing to go to Ford City can transfer to 79th.

[strictures]

I'd like to see the 136 buses that end at Devon/Sheridan, turned into 155s for just the one run west to Kedzie. That would take a load off of the 155s that have picked up a full load at the Loyola L Station.

[jajuan]

I'd like to see the 136 buses that end at Devon/Sheridan, turned into 155s for just the one run west to Kedzie. That would take a load off of the 155s that have picked up a full load at the Loyola L Station.

Well I know some of the final trips on the 136 would transport riders along Devon up to Western on their way back to the garage and that helped a little on the rush 155 trips. Only problem with that is not all operators provided those courtesy rides. You had to leave the bus at Sheridan/Winthrop which Clever Devices announced as the last stop.

[TaylorTank1229]

I decided to start this thread after having an experience on the 155. Every time I ride the 155 it's crowded and I think Devon could benefit from artics. Anyone have thoughts of a route that could use artics or increased service?

Well I wouldn't say all the time on the 155, but atleast put a few on during weekday rush periods to help with the crowded perios.

[NewFlyerMCI]

I'd like to see the 136 buses that end at Devon/Sheridan, turned into 155s for just the one run west to Kedzie. That would take a load off of the 155s that have picked up a full load at the Loyola L Station.

Well I know some of the final trips on the 136 would transport riders along Devon up to Western on their way back to the garage and that helped a little on the rush 155 trips. Only problem with that is not all operators provided those courtesy rides. You had to leave the bus at Sheridan/Winthrop which Clever Devices announced as the last stop.

Well I wouldn't say all the time on the 155, but atleast put a few on during weekday rush periods to help with the crowded perios.

They originally tried truncating some 147 trips to Devon/Kedzie, but this was way back in 2008. Last I checked, there are just a few evening trips that end at Sheridan/Devon.

Besides, North Park (and CTA as a whole) are selective with their artics. Rarely do you seen regular rush, non-rush or a combo of artics on a route that doesn't serve downtown, especially not an LSD route. There aren't many, the 82 is barely an exception, every other day or so #4000 and some other artic will be out on the 82, but that's about it. Probably the reason artics got killed at 77th, only 2 routes have regular, all week service heading downtown.

CTA really just needs 40-70 more artics. Unfortunately, good, new buses (like some XDE or XD60's) can be anywhere from $32 million to $56 million ([insert god here] forbid the $80 million it would take for 100 new artics.) and Rauner (and/or apparently, Congress with these transportation cuts) doesn't look like he (and/or they) would be fond of helping out with new buses.

[Tcmetro]

157 could use more service. Personally, I'd like to see UIC simply discontinue their shuttle service, and use the funds to pay CTA for more service on Taylor St. In reality, I'd expect UIC to dump the shuttle buses altogether and not fund any CTA improvements.

As for artics on the main arterials (i.e. Western, Ashland, Belmont, Irving Park, etc) I'd rather see more service with rigid buses. For the grid system to work, the routes need higher frequencies. Replacing 40' buses with 60' buses will allow the CTA to justify cutting frequencies back from 10 minutes to 12 or 15. In reality, the main buses and trains should be running every 5-8 minutes all day for customer convenience.

Unfortunately, at this point I imagine that CTA will be facing budget cuts soon, continuing the service cuts followed by ridership loss spiral. Trains will still do well because they are the best way to get downtown and they are in a decent state of repair (save for Blue-FP and Red North).

[Busjack]

157 could use more service. Personally, I'd like to see UIC simply discontinue their shuttle service, and use the funds to pay CTA for more service on Taylor St. In reality, I'd expect UIC to dump the shuttle buses altogether and not fund any CTA improvements.

...

UIC also has 7 and 60 using about the same route from downtown,* and thus doesn't look underserved. That includes some 60 trips that end at Roosevelt-Racine.

__________

*And has a Blue Line station.

[NewFlyerMCI]

157 could use more service. Personally, I'd like to see UIC simply discontinue their shuttle service, and use the funds to pay CTA for more service on Taylor St. In reality, I'd expect UIC to dump the shuttle buses altogether and not fund any CTA improvements.

What happened to the 7 & Blue Line? Not to mention, that corridor has suffered enough, with the 37, then the service cuts, then the 38, followed by more service cuts and then a period with no service, until the 157 got extended.

EDIT: Didn't see busjack's post, sorry about that

[4CottageGrove95th]

I'll take a crack, although this has been discussed numerous times by myself and others.

Artics:

3/4 King Dr/Cottage Dr

-> Backbone route

-> Multi-Laned

-> Heavy passenger base

-> CSU & UoC (4) passenger base

-> Mag Mile & Downtown.

The list goes on..

I could see the 3 King Drive getting artics out of 77th. But not 4 Cottage as this line has always been treated like the "unwanted stepchild' by 77th. However, if the 4 ran out of 103rd, then I could see that route having a good chance at getting artics. Otherwise, this route for as heavily travelled as it is, would get overlooked just like it usually has in the past.

[NewFlyerMCI]

I could see the 3 King Drive getting artics out of 77th. But not 4 Cottage as this line has always been treated like the "unwanted stepchild' by 77th. However, if the 4 ran out of 103rd, then I could see that route having a good chance at getting artics. Otherwise, this route for as heavily travelled as it is, would get overlooked just like it usually has in the past.

Actually, the 4 gets artic preference over the 3. I left Chicago in Dec 2009 (my closest garage was 77th, I lived right down the street) and have been back 2-3 times a year, so the artics my memory has down are the 7500s and the 4333s. Now, the 3 & 4 got equal amounts of 7500s, but the 4 got them 1 1/2 months before the 3. And while some 4333s were at 77th for that brief period, the 79 got almost all of them and then half of the buses assigned to the 4 at any time of the week were artics. The 3 didn't get any 4333s whatsoever.

And the 3 & 4 could run out of 103rd, along with the 8A and maybe the 87 (doubtful).

[strictures]

I could see the 3 King Drive getting artics out of 77th. But not 4 Cottage as this line has always been treated like the "unwanted stepchild' by 77th. However, if the 4 ran out of 103rd, then I could see that route having a good chance at getting artics. Otherwise, this route for as heavily traveled as it is, would get overlooked just like it usually has in the past.

Stepchild is correct. The 3 has way too many buses assigned to it & some should be reassigned to the 4.

What's happened over the last 20 years is that all the housing projects along King are gone, plus the Green Line is just a block or so away from it.

I sometimes take the 4 to UofC from Michigan Ave. & it's always the same, several empty 3s pass by, until an overloaded 4 shows up. And it's nothing unusual to wait 20-30 minutes for one at 58th/Cottage Grove, going in either direction.

UofC Hospital is without a doubt, the largest institution in the city with the absolute worst CTA service.

One remedy would be to reroute the 55 through Washington Park to 57th/Cottage Grove, as it already goes south to 5600 S. at the Morgan/Rainey divide. Just have it continue on Morgan to 57th & then east to Cottage Grove & back north to 55th.