4000-series DE60LF - Updates - Rehabs

[andrethebusman]

As a note - 4167 (from Michigan/Lake wreck) is gone from maintnance's computers. I suspect this will be laid up as 'evidence" for so long that CTA has given up on it, like the dead 6000's that sat at SS until they rotted.

[XE NewFlyer]

4062 had a rust spot on the top near the front

[XE NewFlyer]

4140's back doors did not close twice when i was on it so it had to be closed manually

[XE NewFlyer]

I have not seen 4171 for about half a year and i have not seen 4170 for like a year where are these buses

[jajuan]

21 hours ago, XE NewFlyer said:

I have not seen 4171 for about half a year and i have not seen 4170 for like a year where are these buses

They aren't listed as OOS so they should be at North Park.

[busfan2847]

On 8/7/2016 at 1:00 PM, XE NewFlyer said:

I have not seen 4171 for about half a year and i have not seen 4170 for like a year where are these buses

4170 has not been in service since ~May 20th this year but was out on the 146 today.

4171 has not been in service since the end of June.

[jajuan]

17 hours ago, busfan2847 said:

4170 has not been in service since ~May 20th this year but was out on the 146 today.

4171 has not been in service since the end of June.

Still significantly more recent than XE NewFlyer's mention that he hadn't seen them for more than a year and a half. But you also give us a bit of possible evidence, since you didn't specify a reason for the weeks long down time for maintenance on those two, that all that use on the 146 and 147 especially puts a good amount of wear and tear on artics at North Park. 

[Busjack]

CTA has an RFP for overhaul of 208 4000 series buses.

Let the fun begin.

[garmon757]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

CTA has an RFP for overhaul of 208 4000 series buses.

Let the fun begin.

Merged here but yes, let the fun begin!

[Sam92]

Rode past #4099 while it was sitting on Jefferson.  It has new lights like the 1000s if anyone want to track it and check it out

[Sam92]

#4099 has updated lighting identical to the #1000s

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, Sam92 said:

#4099 has updated lighting identical to the #1000s

Probably cause its rehabbed. I might have to look that one up. Its been a slow weekend so far.

[sw4400]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Probably cause its rehabbed. I might have to look that one up. Its been a slow weekend so far.

Doubtful.....

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 3:33 PM, Busjack said:

CTA has an RFP for overhaul of 208 4000 series buses.

Let the fun begin.

The RFP that Busjack alludes to here was posted on September 8th. It's still in a bidding stage, and anyone know what a "Complete Turnkey Overhaul" means? I know a "Gut Rehab" like the 1000-Series New Flyers underwent was pretty much rebuilding from the frame up. What will be overhauled in a Complete Turnkey Overhaul? Exterior? Interior? Mechanical? To me, Turnkey is mechanical only.

But whatever the definition, these overhauls won't begin until sometime in 2017 at the earliest, as a manufacturer/manufacturers of supplies must be determined and a destination of where work is to be done must be determined(South Shops, Bus & Truck, Cummins N Power).

[Busjack]

1 minute ago, sw4400 said:

"Complete Turnkey Overhaul" means

I don't think it has anything to do with the mechanical specifications of the rehab. While I'm not going to download it, for the reason that the mechanical specifications for rehabbing all series of buses were contained in the last specs., turnkey (adjective) usually means a private contractor is responsible for providing a completed job. By this measure, rehabs of 2600s, 5800s, and 1000s were turnkey, while the 3200s definitely are not (CTA had various requisitions for various types of parts).

7 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

But whatever the definition, these overhauls won't begin until sometime in 2017 at the earliest, as a manufacturer/manufacturers of supplies must be determined and a destination of where work is to be done must be determined(South Shops, Bus & Truck, Cummins N Power).

Thus, what is to be determined is if the successful bidder will be Bus & Truck, N Power (you left out New Flyer ULC, Inland Power, and I am sure others), but definitely not South Shops.

[BusHunter]

It would make sense. There are no more #8300's to occupy south shops. 

[jajuan]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

It would make sense. There are no more #8300's to occupy south shops. 

Not if it's a turnkey rehab, which Busjack described as meaning someone else is doing all the work and not CTA. 

[BusHunter]

3 minutes ago, jajuan said:

Not if it's a turnkey rehab, which Busjack described as meaning someone else is doing all the work and not CTA. 

But they have to come and go through south shops and have to be accepted. 

[sw4400]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

I don't think it has anything to do with the mechanical specifications of the rehab. While I'm not going to download it, for the reason that the mechanical specifications for rehabbing all series of buses were contained in the last specs., turnkey (adjective) usually means a private contractor is responsible for providing a completed job. By this measure, rehabs of 2600s, 5800s, and 1000s were turnkey, while the 3200s definitely are not (CTA had various requisitions for various types of parts).

Thus, what is to be determined is if the successful bidder will be Bus & Truck, N Power (you left out New Flyer ULC, Inland Power, and I am sure others), but definitely not South Shops.

Well, these are the places that have done maintenance for CTA Buses before. But any capable heavy maintenance facility for buses can be considered for the job, for sure. I would surmise it might be a two-step rehab. A facility that does rehabs on Hybrid buses will be required for the GM/Allision HybriDrive on these buses. The Cummins ISL engine can be rebuilt/rehabbed at a diesel facility. It will be interesting to see how many contractors get a piece of this job.

[Busjack]

58 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

A facility that does rehabs on Hybrid buses will be required for the GM/Allision HybriDrive on these buses. The Cummins ISL engine can be rebuilt/rehabbed at a diesel facility. It will be interesting to see how many contractors get a piece of this job.

Obviously. someone will have to supply a bus with an overhauled Cummins engine and Allison hybrid configuration, but it being turnkey, would have to do it itself. It would be up to the contractor to find sources of Cummins and Allison parts.

I dug up the past specifications,* and they are for "IS{B, C, L. M} Engine, ZF Brand Automatic Transmission Mounted to Engine, and Specified Auxiliaries, ""ISL, Auxiliary Items and Allison B400,"  and, relevant to the 4000s, ISL, with or without an Allison EP50 hybrid drive unit.

The reference to "turnkey" indicates that it is not like the spec for Pace 2600-2701, which was that 3 separate contracts were awarded for supplying the engine, transmission, and installation of both.

__________

*As I said earlier, the specifications included for all CTA buses, but said that they were effective only with respect to such portions on which a notice to proceed was given.

[BusHunter]

16 hours ago, sw4400 said:

Doubtful.....

The RFP that Busjack alludes to here was posted on September 8th. It's still in a bidding stage, and anyone know what a "Complete Turnkey Overhaul" means? I know a "Gut Rehab" like the 1000-Series New Flyers underwent was pretty much rebuilding from the frame up. What will be overhauled in a Complete Turnkey Overhaul? Exterior? Interior? Mechanical? To me, Turnkey is mechanical only.

But whatever the definition, these overhauls won't begin until sometime in 2017 at the earliest, as a manufacturer/manufacturers of supplies must be determined and a destination of where work is to be done must be determined(South Shops, Bus & Truck, Cummins N Power).

You know what's sneaky though. If it's a jump bus it should be wrapped so they can cheat on the exterior painting. Thats what they did on some 1000's rehabs. Im assuming it still has the wrap. Maybe they are just changing the lights I really have to see the bus to make a better determination of whats going on exactly.

[sw4400]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

You know what's sneaky though. If it's a jump bus it should be wrapped so they can cheat on the exterior painting. Thats what they did on some 1000's rehabs. Im assuming it still has the wrap. Maybe they are just changing the lights I really have to see the bus to make a better determination of whats going on exactly.

 

22 hours ago, Sam92 said:

#4099 has updated lighting identical to the #1000s

There is, of course the possibility that #4099 may have been a test bus for the new-style LED lighting before any of the 1000-Series New Flyers got their rehabs. #6462 got those different seats that #4150-4207 have well before they were delivered. CTA just randomly tests a pilot bus from an older series for changes to see how they work out at times, and apply that to current or future orders at times.

[BusHunter]

I dont know usually these rehabs have a tendency to be done in pieces. Probably bus and truck just does the mechanicals and the lights and painting is done in house at south shops. That appeared  to be what was happening with the #1000's. That may have been why the last ones were done in pieces and we had mechanical rehabs driving around.

Could be #4099 is the prototype like #1005 was. Question is was #1005 done before the #1000's contract was executed?

[jajuan]

26 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

I dont know usually these rehabs have a tendency to be done in pieces. Probably bus and truck just does the mechanicals and the lights and painting is done in house at south shops. That appeared  to be what was happening with the #1000's. That may have been why the last ones were done in pieces and we had mechanical rehabs driving around.

Could be #4099 is the prototype like #1005 was. Question is was #1005 done before the #1000's contract was executed?

There is of course BH the history that not all cosmetic changes to a bus are part of a rehab. That black trimming done to the windows on the prior 4000 series buses, the MAN 4000s, were not a rehab job as you erroneously stated previously in the Final Destinations thread. That was simply an update to the red, white, and blue paint job to bring them in line with the bus models coming after them having black trim windows.

[BusHunter]

2 hours ago, jajuan said:

There is of course BH the history that not all cosmetic changes to a bus are part of a rehab. That black trimming done to the windows on the prior 4000 series buses, the MAN 4000s, were not a rehab job as you erroneously stated previously in the Final Destinations thread. That was simply an update to the red, white, and blue paint job to bring them in line with the bus models coming after them having black trim windows.

And what is your source. They looked pretty updated to me.

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Could be #4099 is the prototype like #1005 was. Question is was #1005 done before the #1000's contract was executed?

No, it couldn't be. The specs for the 1000s was for 1029 buses and the question was "why one short?", and the answer was 1005 was done. This requisition is for 208 buses, not 207.