5000-series - Updates

[RJL6000]

It seems the cars did go to Bombardier after all. Skokie shops now has single cars again outside the shop (2 cars) indicating an arrival or departure. A quick scan of the Skokie shop area reveals #5009-10 are missing. Those are presumed to be off the property. Looks like maybe they sent half the prototype 1 cars (#5003- #5012) and now there in the process of doing the second half. Maybe when those come back they can start the delivery unless they have to retru the wheels (which shouldn't be the case, being used previously.) Why do I get the feeling all new cars will come thru the Pink Line and broken in first then go to there long term assignment? If the wheels will all need to be balanced that may be a logical choice.

I just noticed what was posted at chicago-l.org with regards to the 5000-series cars.

It's "official". The Pink Line will be the first line to receive the new cars. I've recently begun to see 2950s and 2960s, which were most recently assigned to the Purple Line, already at the Rosemont Yard (which means that the 2950s and 2960s, along with 2940s and some lower numbered 2900s, are in the process of being transferred from the Red and Purple Lines to the Blue Line). The existing upper 3100s currently assigned to the Pink Line will be transferred to the Red Line to compensate for that line's loss of lower 2900s to the Blue Line. These transfers allow the remaining 2200s to be retired from revenue service.

After the Pink Line, the Green Line will be the next line to receive the 5000s, allowing the retirement of many of that line's 2400s and transferring what 2400s left over to the Red and Purple Lines to live out their remaining days.

If these cars were delivered in numerical groups, the Pink Line would have cars 5001-5044 while the Green Line would have cars numbered from 5045 to somewhere in the 5160s to 5170s.

[Busjack]

I just noticed what was posted at chicago-l.org with regards to the 5000-series cars....

Since you referred to chicago-l.org, I took a look.

I can sort of buy "get the teething out of them" by putting them on a light line first, but none the rest he says makes sense, and some are self-contradictory, such as that 5407-5706 are not going to replace anything, but are being used to build the fleet from about 1190 to 1400, but then "While the additional 300 cars ordered under the additional contract options would not be enough to completely retire the 2600-series cars, built by Budd-Transit American in 1981-87, it will allow the CTA to retire a significant number of them."

Also, based on the current car roster he posts, Pink and Green count for only about 164 of the first load of 406 cars, and unless CTA does the really idiotic thing of putting 5165s on the Purple Line, where they might run about 3 hours a day, won't replace the 2200s and 2400s. Revision: Won't even replace the 2400s, not to mention more than 44 2200s.

Other than that, it makes no sense to put the newest equipment on two light lines (Pink and Green) while the two heaviest lines (Blue and Red) get shuffled old equipment.

In the meantime, there is no way I can conceive CTA having a demand for 1400 cars, unless all New Starts are approved and CTA gets enough money for 12 car platforms, but Forrest Gump Claypool claims that there is no source for any money.

Of course, since this is based on what was spit out at ADA meetings and the like, instead of official releases, maybe Gump is as incompetent or inarticulate as he is portraying himself on the CTA Tattler.

[ChicagoNova]

I just noticed what was posted at chicago-l.org with regards to the 5000-series cars.

It's "official". The Pink Line will be the first line to receive the new cars. I've recently begun to see 2950s and 2960s, which were most recently assigned to the Purple Line, already at the Rosemont Yard (which means that the 2950s and 2960s, along with 2940s and some lower numbered 2900s, are in the process of being transferred from the Red and Purple Lines to the Blue Line). The existing upper 3100s currently assigned to the Pink Line will be transferred to the Red Line to compensate for that line's loss of lower 2900s to the Blue Line. These transfers allow the remaining 2200s to be retired from revenue service.

After the Pink Line, the Green Line will be the next line to receive the 5000s, allowing the retirement of many of that line's 2400s and transferring what 2400s left over to the Red and Purple Lines to live out their remaining days.

If these cars were delivered in numerical groups, the Pink Line would have cars 5001-5044 while the Green Line would have cars numbered from 5045 to somewhere in the 5160s to 5170s.

I was told about that 2 when I was at the August 2nd meeting.

[BusHunter]

Since you referred to chicago-l.org, I took a look.

I can sort of buy "get the teething out of them" by putting them on a light line first, but none the rest he says makes sense, and some are self-contradictory, such as that 5407-5706 are not going to replace anything, but are being used to build the fleet from about 1190 to 1400, but then "While the additional 300 cars ordered under the additional contract options would not be enough to completely retire the 2600-series cars, built by Budd-Transit American in 1981-87, it will allow the CTA to retire a significant number of them."

Also, based on the current car roster he posts, Pink and Green count for only about 164 of the first load of 406 cars, and unless CTA does the really idiotic thing of putting 5165s on the Purple Line, where they might run about 3 hours a day, won't replace the 2200s and 2400s.

Other than that, it makes no sense to put the newest equipment on two light lines (Pink and Green) while the two heaviest lines (Blue and Red) get shuffled old equipment.

In the meantime, there is no way I can conceive CTA having a demand for 1400 cars, unless all New Starts are approved and CTA gets enough money for 12 car platforms, but Forrest Gump Claypool claims that there is no source for any money.

Of course, since this is based on what was spit out at ADA meetings and the like, instead of official releases, maybe Gump is as incompetent or inarticulate as he is portraying himself on the CTA Tattler.

It makes sense to put them on the lightest lines, (if your not confident in your equipment being put to task) Probably later in the order the Red and Blue will get there turn after they see what's going to happen with the first cars. With 706 cars coming, even though you put them on the lightest lines, there should be plenty left over. The red line extension will be lucky if it happens this decade, so based on that they could retire(or whatever they want to put into storage) about 376 #2600's. If they tighten the green line down to not have many spares (if all new equipment) they could maybe push that up to around 400. So with 200 cars (#2600's) left, it would be hard to not see them on the Red and Blue. They just may not have complete fleets of new equipment. Now according to what CTA reports (which don't make much sense keeping 300 cars around). I see this problem almost initially. Where are they going to stick 300 cars more. There is simply not the yard space to hold more than 100 or 150 extra. It almost like they are so unconfident with the #5000's that they would like to have extra cars around in case they fail. Isn't it ironic, that the trains were ordered with longitudinal seating to be used in high traffic situations and so far they are going to the lightest lines. These cars are slowly turning into a joke.

[Busjack]

... It almost like they are so unconfident with the #5000's that they would like to have extra cars around in case they fail. Isn't it ironic, that the trains were ordered with longitudinal seating to be used in high traffic situations and so far they are going to the lightest lines. These cars are slowly turning into a joke.

Now, you are really getting to the point. I hadn't thought of your longitudinal seating point, but it also makes sense.

Again, I can see a breaking in period, but there is no sense to spending $1.4 to $1.6 million a car if CTA is not confident that they will work to replace cars that supposedly are unreliable because they have been in service for 42 or 34 years (at this point), and in the case of the 42 year old cars, about 18 since the last rehab.

Maybe chitowndude was right, although Bombardier is supposed to be world class.

[BusHunter]

Now, you are really getting to the point. I hadn't thought of your longitudinal seating point, but it also makes sense.

Again, I can see a breaking in period, but there is no sense to spending $1.4 to $1.6 million a car if CTA is not confident that they will work to replace cars that supposedly are unreliable because they have been in service for 42 or 34 years (at this point), and in the case of the 42 year old cars, about 18 since the last rehab.

Maybe chitowndude was right, although Bombardier is supposed to be world class.

It might not be that the cars are subpar, it could be something wrong with the CTA's infrastructure whether that be signals trackage or power. They did just go through years and years of signal and electrical updates. I was just thinking, what's the closest line to the pink line that doesn't have much traffic. (green line) Not that far of a ride to 54th shops from Harlem shops. What's the next closest (orange line) Eventually they'll have to put cars on the bigger lines and maybe we'll see how good the cars really are or what the problem is.

[Busjack]

Again that could be. Supposedly all the signals had to be upgraded because electronic propulsion control interfered with the old ones (going back to the chopper control tests on the 2400s; probably now worse since the internal electronics have to convert DC from the third rail to AC). The Pink Line is the newest, as far as having been rebuilt from the ground up on the part paralleling Cermak. On the other hand, it has to go through the Loop, where the signal project is still in progress (although that seems now limited to completing the interlockings). Supposedly the signal and power project was completed on the Blue.

Anyhow, I still think that after over a year of testing on all lines, they should have ascertained what they had, with respect to both the cars and how they interacted with the infrastructure.

[artthouwill]

Let me get this right:

The CTA is going to put its newest cars on the Pink Line, shift the 31xx - 3200 to the Red Line, and shift the 29xxs from the Red to the Blue, and then start retiring the 2200s? And then the Green Line would be next in getting 5000s and its 2400s go to the Red?

After over a year of testing, either the cars work or they don't. To me it would make sense to start them on the Blue Line (or even the Red) and hold off on retiring any old cars for another 6 - 12 months (they can be emergency spares and can be stored at 54th or 63r/Racine. The CTA is spending a lot of money on these cars not to be used on its heaviest routes.

I also wonder if maintenance issues (i.e track on Red and Blue Lines) scare CTA enough to keep its new fleet away from the lines with the highest likelihood of derailments.

[Busjack]

Let me get this right:

The CTA is going to put its newest cars on the Pink Line, shift the 31xx - 3200 to the Red Line, and shift the 29xxs from the Red to the Blue, and then start retiring the 2200s? And then the Green Line would be next in getting 5000s and its 2400s go to the Red?

...

When you put it that way, it makes even less sense. I hadn't figured out all the implications of what rjl said, but:

• If the 5000s are going to stick on the Pink Line, the Pink Line could return 3157-3200 back to the Blue Line. No need to mess with the Red, just because of that.
• In the meantime, instead of retiring the 2400s from the Green Line, they are going to degrade the Red Line with them? After they have been off the Red Line for about 10 years?

For that matter, if proximity to the 54th shop is an issue, they could use the (approx.) 64 spaces left there (108 stated capacity-44 cars now assigned to the Pink) to store 5000s, but feed them into the Blue Line at the old junction between the Congress and Douglas.

Note, of course, that this comment is directed to CTA, not you, art. But if CTA is already implementing the transfers as rjl indicates, it has gone (as Crazy Eddie in New York used to say) insane.

[Sam92]

It looks as if there may be a "More Rail Moves" thread in the future

[BusHunter]

When you put it that way, it makes even less sense. I hadn't figured out all the implications of what rjl said, but:

• If the 5000s are going to stick on the Pink Line, the Pink Line could return 3157-3200 back to the Blue Line. No need to mess with the Red, just because of that.
• In the meantime, instead of retiring the 2400s from the Green Line, they are going to degrade the Red Line with them? After they have been off the Red Line for about 10 years?

For that matter, if proximity to the 54th shop is an issue, they could use the (approx.) 64 spaces left there (108 stated capacity-44 cars now assigned to the Pink) to store 5000s, but feed them into the Blue Line at the old junction between the Congress and Douglas.

Note, of course, that this comment is directed to CTA, not you, art. But if CTA is already implementing the transfers as rjl indicates, it has gone (as Crazy Eddie in New York used to say) insane.

Just to clarify, it was never mentioned the #2400's would go to the Red (unless you know something I don't) Since were talking about stuff not making sense, chicago-l states that 44 #2600's from Red go to Blue and the 130 something #2200's retire. There short 90 cars of doing that. What looks like may happen is that the #2400's may go to blue, which would be kind of cool not running there since the 80's. Unless they intend to have the non accessible blinker door #2200's outlive the #2400's. Then you might wonder what happens to the #2400's on the purple? If the purple line express gets the axe next year, problem solved. As far as transfers are concerned currently the pink line is unchanged.

[RJL6000]

Just to clarify, it was never mentioned the #2400's would go to the Red (unless you know something I don't) Since were talking about stuff not making sense, chicago-l states that 44 #2600's from Red go to Blue and the 130 something #2200's retire. There short 90 cars of doing that. What looks like may happen is that the #2400's may go to blue, which would be kind of cool not running there since the 80's. Unless they intend to have the non accessible blinker door #2200's outlive the #2400's. Then you might wonder what happens to the #2400's on the purple? If the purple line express gets the axe next year, problem solved. As far as transfers are concerned currently the pink line is unchanged.

The move of the 2400s wasn't mentioned. These 1976-vintage cars might live out their remaining days on the Blue Line (like you stated).

[MRCTA]

The move of the 2400s wasn't mentioned. These 1976-vintage cars might live out their remaining days on the Blue Line (like you stated).

I thought the CTA was gonna retire those 2400-style cars! Or did they?

[RJL6000]

I thought the CTA was gonna retire those 2400-style cars! Or did they?

They are going to retire those 2400s - but the last of those will not be officially retired until unit 5405-5406 is delivered.

[Busjack]

The move of the 2400s wasn't mentioned. These 1976-vintage cars might live out their remaining days on the Blue Line (like you stated).

I'll retract some inferences I made from art's post, but this wouldn't make sense, either.

However, this may be like the buses....Archer gets the new ones first, then they go to Chicago, then Archer gets no buses. Other than what's now on the Pink, and the inference that one would not want to run a line with incompatible equipment mixed, I don't think that anyone can make any conclusion at the moment....

...except that rjl reported that they moved some 2600s from the Red to Blue just to have room for from Pink to Red.

So, it appears that Dogbert is the equipment assignment manager throughout the CTA.*

____________

*Strange that Dilbert has correlated with CTA stories (twice last week with regard to Gump).

[Mr.cta85]

Wow so the 5000's will go to the Pink Line 1st eh? I don't think any one of us would have suspected that move to happen. Which is fine but why would they take the 2600's that are currently on the Pink Line and put them on the Red instead of just putting them back on the Blue that to me makes way more sense than putting the Pink Line 26's on the Red. I say they Put them back on the Blue along with some 2400's to replace the 2200 series or heck put the Orange Line 3200's on the Blue or Green Line. I said this before a while back but another suggestion would be to pair the 2400 up with the 2200's that way once the 5000's start coming in they could kill 2 birds with one stone making it easier to retire the older series.

[BusHunter]

I'll retract some inferences I made from art's post, but this wouldn't make sense, either.

However, this may be like the buses....Archer gets the new ones first, then they go to Chicago, then Archer gets no buses. Other than what's now on the Pink, and the inference that one would not want to run a line with incompatible equipment mixed, I don't think that anyone can make any conclusion at the moment....

...except that rjl reported that they moved some 2600s from the Red to Blue just to have room for from Pink to Red.

So, it appears that Dogbert is the equipment assignment manager throughout the CTA.*

____________

*Strange that Dilbert has correlated with CTA stories (twice last week with regard to Gump).

Yeah, just because there going to be on the pink and green now doesn't mean there going to stay there. When the kinks get worked out they may just end up on the red and blue. If they don't those lines can't have complete fleets of #5000's. That's the paradox there going to put themselves in. These cars are coming in so slowly it may be an accomplishment just to get the 44 cars to the pink line with no problems. :rolleyes:

[chitowndude84]

The new 5000's on the Pink and Green line ?? Can't wait to see new rail cars trashed and "tagged" within a year

[New Flyer]

what makes you think they wouldn't be tagged or trashed on other lines, or what makes you think?

[sw4400]

The new 5000's on the Pink and Green line ?? Can't wait to see new rail cars trashed and "tagged" within a year

That'll happen when they go to the Red and Blue Lines(also known as the port-a-potties and Hilton for the homeless at night)

[New Flyer]

another smart ass lets hope you're able to keep your job and home

[sw4400]

another smart ass lets hope you're able to keep your job and home

I'm not going to go deep into this, but are you ok with the idea of the homeless deficating on the car you're in and you have to sit in-between stations for several minutes while the train is awaiting signals or something and the only legal and safe thing to do is sit in said car smelling that pile until the train is berthed at a station so you can move safely to another car? And yes, I know about the emergency exits, but those are not meant to be used unless an emergency presents itself.

BTW, I have had homeless come into my store that have reeked of urine and feces, and have had to deal with the customer complaints and seen one employee almost lose her lunch because the odor was so strong. I'm in no degrading the homeless, but when they are reeking of urine and feces, I think even you, New Flyer, couldn't deal with that. There are places where they can take a bath/shower & wash/get clean clothes, however, so they can be tolerable.

Just a quick opinion of those who read this.... how many could deal sitting in a CTA "L" car with a homeless person that reeks of urine and feces, or decides to deficate in the car?

[chitowndude84]

Oh ya I have SEEN and smelled things on the blue line !!!

[New Flyer]

and this may surprise you but also the BROWN, and Orange LINES

[New Flyer]

and this may surprise you but also the BROWN, and Orange LINES

and by the way I dealt with it for 26 years because the law says as long as they pay their fare they can ride.