5000-series - Updates

[4CottageGrove95th]

I am a native Chicagoan although living in Phoenix Arizona for 15 years now. Nonetheless, I continue to follow the activities of CTA (i.e., equipment purchases, assignments, reassignments, etc.)

With respect to the 5000 series, I was surprised to see that the new stuff was not initially assigned to Blue, Red and Brown lines right off the bat as these appear to be the heaviest travel in the system. Now, I've got to be honest with you. I would love to see the 5000s on the Green line because when this line was rehabbed in the early to mid-90s, I remember at least hearing that it would receive rehabbed 2600 series. However, the 2400 series landed there instead. And that wasn't bad! I've always liked the 2400s. But, in my "quirky" way of reasoning, I don't think the Green line should receive another batch of "hand-me-down" equipment as it did in the 90s in the form of the 2600s.

That having been said, the most reasonable assignment layout would have been to assign the 5000s to Blue line first to as it is a major link between downtown Chitown and O'hare Airport, thus quickly retiring the 2200s. After the Blue line is complete, Brown line should be next to receive a healthy number of 5000s. As the Brown line receives it's new cars, the healthy number of 3200s can go to the Green line. In fact is it's not feasible

When you put it that way, it makes even less sense. I hadn't figured out all the implications of what rjl said, but:

• If the 5000s are going to stick on the Pink Line, the Pink Line could return 3157-3200 back to the Blue Line. No need to mess with the Red, just because of that.
• In the meantime, instead of retiring the 2400s from the Green Line, they are going to degrade the Red Line with them? After they have been off the Red Line for about 10 years?

For that matter, if proximity to the 54th shop is an issue, they could use the (approx.) 64 spaces left there (108 stated capacity-44 cars now assigned to the Pink) to store 5000s, but feed them into the Blue Line at the old junction between the Congress and Douglas.

Note, of course, that this comment is directed to CTA, not you, art. But if CTA is already implementing the transfers as rjl indicates, it has gone (as Crazy Eddie in New York used to say) insane.

[Mr.cta85]

I would have to agree too, even though I wouldn't the 5000's going to the Green Line I also think the 1st line to receive the bulk of the new cars should be the Blue to replace the aging 2200 series then some should go to the Red Line since those are the 2 busiest and heaviest lines. After that the remaining 5000's should go to the Brown line that way the Green Line would receive the 3200's from the Brown Line.

[Amtrak41]

After the Blue, the 5000's should go to the Red. You can't leave the 2nd busiest line in the system with the oldest cars (and all its noisy, flat wheels). With 706 cars, I assume that is all the 22, 24, and the worst 2600's are gone (except to the IRM and the like).

Alternatively, run the 2600's on the Purple, and sprinkle on all other lines so they do not get used off-peak.

A similar mistake was done in NYC. The #7 Flushing line got no new technology R142 trains, but hand-me-downs from the main line IRT, and they are troubleprone, especially since it is a heavily-used, high stress line that is also mostly outside exposed to the weather.

[MetroShadow]

After the Blue, the 5000's should go to the Red. You can't leave the 2nd busiest line in the system with the oldest cars (and all its noisy, flat wheels). With 706 cars, I assume that is all the 22, 24, and the worst 2600's are gone (except to the IRM and the like).

A similar mistake was done in NYC. The #7 Flushing line got no new technology R142 trains, but hand-me-downs from the main line IRT, and they are troubleprone, especially since it is a heavily-used, high stress line that is also mostly outside exposed to the weather.

The 2600's are still in decent shape, even as they are approaching 30 years of age (depending on when CTA received them). However, it would make sense to get rid of the older equipment first, and replace them as time moves on. I'm sure, the Red has survived these cars for the past decade-plus (after the rehab), and will survive as the newer trains come in.

As for the 7 line, when are they supposed to get the 188s?

[BusHunter]

Spotted a few more #2600's on the blue line. Initially about the last week or two I've only seen #2963-64, but yesterday #2958-57 and #2956-55 were on the blue also. These are coming off the Purple line. (Purple used to have #2966 - #2949) I wonder what purple line is using for cars, not gaining anything so far off the Pink? As far as the #5000's, the cars are in the same position in the yard as they were the week before. Also if anyone's interested Logan Square/Blue line looks complete now with it's facelift. The bricks have been powerwashed (looks alot cleaner) and they installed lights along the side on the station walls (like in the subway between stations) at the point where the ceiling is raised in the station. All the station lights have been changed to the newer energy efficient lights. They also put those signs like they have downtown at the ad racks on the station walls (at the new station rehabs) that say you are here and show a map from the station to the terminus point. I was surprised the station got so much attention, the only thing is now it makes Belmont/blue look dirty. Hopefully they'll be attacking that next.

[sw4400]

Spotted a few more #2600's on the blue line. Initially about the last week or two I've only seen #2963-64, but yesterday #2958-57 and #2956-55 were on the blue also. These are coming off the Purple line. (Purple used to have #2966 - #2949) I wonder what purple line is using for cars, not gaining anything so far off the Pink?

They still do. When I picked up the Purple Line at Main last night, the car I boarded was #2966.

[Busjack]

These are coming off the Purple line.

On the on topic point this may make sense to the extent that those on the Purple Line get used only a couple of hours a day and may be more fresh. Anyway, those in the Howard Yard are fungible, except for the over the door maps.

I was surprised the station got so much attention, the only thing is now it makes Belmont/blue look dirty. Hopefully they'll be attacking that next.

At the time ARRA (Stimulus) was announced, they said something about "two intermodal stations" and while Chinatown was obviously rebuilt, I thought they said something about also Logan Square. Maybe they finally got to it.

[Amtrak41]

< As for the 7 line, when are they supposed to get the 188s? >

In a couple of years, but that is only 23 cars to spread service to 34th/11th Avenue with 3 more train sets.

They will build 2 * 11-car trains, essentially upgrades of the R142, then a 23rd blind-motor car. A mainline R142 set of 10 cars (actually 2 * 5-car sets) will then be rebuilt by the R188's car builder to be R188-compatible and the 23rd car will be inserted into its consist.

The will have to make upgrades to Corona Car Shops to service New Technology Trains, and also figure out a way to deadhead to Coney Island shops without use of an ex-Red Bird R33 work car, which has trip-cocks on both sides for use on both the "A" and "B" Divisions.

[ctrabs74]

All I know about the 5000s was that they were testing them on the Green Line on Tuesday. My Pink Line train was right behind it on the Loop. That was the only 5000s sighting I saw during my week in Chicago.

It seems like it's taking forever to get them into service, though, admittedly, I'm not up to speed on the CTA procurement process.

[Busjack]

...

It seems like it's taking forever to get them into service, though, admittedly, I'm not up to speed on the CTA procurement process.

Apparently nobody at CTA either, at least anyone willing to talk officially.

[sw4400]

Well in a quote from a quote from Kevin earlier in this thread... he said the wheels need balancing or truing before they are in revenue service. This might be why they are seen on random lines "Out Of Service", so they get their wheels balanced safely without passengers on board, in the event the train de-rails, then the only person(s) on board will be the Operator and maybe a few techs perhaps.

[Mr.cta85]

Well in a quote from a quote from Kevin earlier in this thread... he said the wheels need balancing or truing before they are in revenue service. This might be why they are seen on random lines "Out Of Service", so they get their wheels balanced safely without passengers on board, in the event the train de-rails, then the only person(s) on board will be the Operator and maybe a few techs perhaps.

So I guess once that situation is taken care of it looks like the 5000's will be in service pretty soon then right?

[sw4400]

So I guess once that situation is taken care of it looks like the 5000's will be in service pretty soon then right?

In groups, perhaps. I guess as they come in, they have to spend a period of time going through this procedure. If this is indeed the reason behind the Out Of Service runs on Rail Lines.

[toppdawg12]

All of which is pretty goofy, is it not?

[pudgym29]

Since I ride the Blue Line more than another “L”-Subway line, I have an angle on why older cars like the 2600s might be reassigned there when the 2200s are retired.

On weekends; in particular Saturday afternoon and early evening when there is not a huge traffic generator downtown [e.g.: Lollapalooza, Air & Water Show], CTA tries running four car trains on the Blue Line. Further, one of the two train cars is a 2200.

Inbound, these cars are already at strong standing level {not yet crush} at Belmont. After Logan Square, there is not much space left to stand.

But the traffic level is insufficient to require eight car trains on the line.

Six car trains are the pragmatic answer to this.

But CTA doesn't want to {or perhaps doesn't want to pay to} uncouple four-car train sets in yards in order to send out six-car train sets. Especially if it felt it should marshall the 2200 cars to not be on either end.

With all sliding-door cars on the line, there will less resistance to breaking down a four-car train to attach two cars to another train set. Then there may be fewer runs of eight-car trains and more runs of six-car trains.

[jajuan]

All of which is pretty goofy, is it not?

From an engineering standpoint, not if it's to be verified that these cars will be safe to use. These are new machines after all, and the first new rail cars in the CTA fleet in about two decades. So like any new machine that will be used by the public, you have to build up confidence they'll be safe to use. Would folks rather they rush the process and then have something go wrong that causes serious injuries? After that whole mess with the NABI artics failing and having serious design flaws because they rushed them through and apparently ignored Altoona design tests, I would very much like to see them do what they need to do and take proper time necessary to make sure these cars will work properly and be safe for transit riders in this city to ride transit fan aside.

[Mr.cta85]

Haven't heard anything or seen the 5000's in a while has anybody else??

[artthouwill]

Since I ride the Blue Line more than another “L”-Subway line, I have an angle on why older cars like the 2600s might be reassigned there when the 2200s are retired.

On weekends; in particular Saturday afternoon and early evening when there is not a huge traffic generator downtown [e.g.: Lollapalooza, Air & Water Show], CTA tries running four car trains on the Blue Line. Further, one of the two train cars is a 2200.

Inbound, these cars are already at strong standing level {not yet crush} at Belmont. After Logan Square, there is not much space left to stand.

But the traffic level is insufficient to require eight car trains on the line.

Six car trains are the pragmatic answer to this.

But CTA doesn't want to {or perhaps doesn't want to pay to} uncouple four-car train sets in yards in order to send out six-car train sets. Especially if it felt it should marshall the 2200 cars to not be on either end.

With all sliding-door cars on the line, there will less resistance to breaking down a four-car train to attach two cars to another train set. Then there may be fewer runs of eight-car trains and more runs of six-car trains.

You really only need one married pair of 2600s for the train to be accessible, thus you could really run 6 car sets on weekends if need be. On another thread, I mentioned I saw an 8 car consist on the Forest Park branch of the Blue line with 4 2600s in the lead and 4 2200s trailing. Besides, when it does run 4 car consists, a 2200 series car will have the lead at some time anyway. I don't think this has any bearing on 5000s being assigned to the Blue Line later as opposed to sooner.

[RJL6000]

For those of you who think that the 5000s should have been assigned to the Blue and Red Lines right off the bat:

This wasn't the first time that the CTA put its newest cars that are/were incompatible with existing cars on less-busy routes. In fact, when the CTA took delivery of the 2000-series cars from Pullman back in 1964, most of them went to the Lake Street line, which had lower ridership than either the West-Northwest Route or the North-South Route. However, the West-Northwest Route did get 40 of the cars while the North-South Route remained equipped entirely with the 6000-series cars. Likewise, when the 2200s came rolling in during 1969-1970, the cars were split between the then-new West-South (Lake-Dan Ryan) and West-Northwest Routes (with all of the West-Northwest's 2000s being reassigned to the West-South Route). The busy North-South Route would not receive High Performance Series cars (as the 2000s and 2200s became known) until the 2400s in 1976.

Speaking of the 2400s, 2599-2600 was the last married-pair of that series built - but not the last one to be delivered to the CTA. 2491-2492, which was originally equipped with a solid-state chopper control, was returned to Boeing-Vertol after testing (2493-2494, 2495-2496, 2497-2498 and 2499-2500 never left the factory with the solid-state chopper control), and all 10 of those cars were converted to the conventional cam control making them the last of the 2400s that were actually delivered to the CTA.

[Busjack]

...

In fact, when the CTA took delivery of the 2000-series cars from Pullman back in 1964, most of them went to the Lake Street line, which had lower ridership than either the West-Northwest Route or the North-South Route. ...

That one was explained by that until the Lake L was put on the embankment, clearances were too narrow for the convex shaped cars. Once it was put on the embankment, the next order went there.

You will note, however, that the 4000s stayed on the Evanston Express for another 10 or so years, instead of putting the remaining 2000s on a very light route (i.e. in the sense of operating only maybe 6 hours a day). While one could mention the trolley wire, I suppose it could have come down 10 years earlier than it did.

We certainly don't have the issue of incompatible lines, any more, unless the signal system is messed up on one of them.

[RJL6000]

That one was explained by that until the Lake L was put on the embankment, clearances were too narrow for the convex shaped cars. Once it was put on the embankment, the next order went there.

What the CTA could have done back in 1964 was to move some of the 6000s to the Lake Street line (which by that time had already been raised onto the Chicago & North Western embankment) and split up the 2000s between the West-Northwest and the North-South Lines since the Lake line had lower ridership than either of the other two routes. (The Ravenswood wasn't even under consideration at the time because it had - and still has - a disproportionate number of sharp turns and curves relative to other lines.) As it turned out, however, the 6000s were only used on the Lake-Dan Ryan route on a temporary basis during times of car shortages in 1969-1970 and 1977-1978.

As for the clearance problems at the west end of the Lake Line prior to October 28, 1962: Had the 6000s gone there (they would have had to have trolley poles in order to run there - and the only 6000s that were or could have been equipped with trolley poles at the time were 6123-6124 and 6125-6126 plus the experimental cars 6127-6128 and 6129-6130), they would have had to run on the eastbound track at all times because of the aforementioned clearance problems on the westbound track (allowing for some normal jostling, the 6000s would have scraped the retaining wall of the adjacent C&NW embankment). That was the major reason for the continued use of 4000s on that line until after the tracks were raised onto the embankment itself.

When the 2000s arrived on the Lake line, the 4000s were retired (early "Baldie" cars) or reassigned (later "Plushie" cars - most to the Ravenswood, a few to the Evanston).

You will note, however, that the 4000s stayed on the Evanston Express for another 10 or so years, instead of putting the remaining 2000s on a very light route (i.e. in the sense of operating only maybe 6 hours a day). While one could mention the trolley wire, I suppose it could have come down 10 years earlier than it did.

Actually, the continued use of overhead electrification on the Evanston line was due to local law in effect at the time: The Evanston politicians of the time did not want third rail on most of the tracks - even those that were already on an embankment. Evanston did comprmise in the early 1960s and allowed the use of third rail at the south end of the line (from South Boulevard to Howard). That way, the trains could switch from third rail to overhead wire (or vice versa) while stopped at the South Boulevard station instead of having to stop between stations to change over. It wasn't until the early 1970s that the Evanston politicians had to concede on the third-rail issue. The last 4000s ran on the Evanston line in November 1973, and the overhead trolley wire came down during 1974.

[Mr.cta85]

Does anybody know or have any updates about the 5000 series I haven't heard or seen them around in a while. But I do have a feeling they will be in revenue service really soon though. There should be about 60 or more built right about now.

[BusHunter]

For those of you who think that the 5000s should have been assigned to the Blue and Red Lines right off the bat:

This wasn't the first time that the CTA put its newest cars that are/were incompatible with existing cars on less-busy routes. In fact, when the CTA took delivery of the 2000-series cars from Pullman back in 1964, most of them went to the Lake Street line, which had lower ridership than either the West-Northwest Route or the North-South Route. However, the West-Northwest Route did get 40 of the cars while the North-South Route remained equipped entirely with the 6000-series cars. Likewise, when the 2200s came rolling in during 1969-1970, the cars were split between the then-new West-South (Lake-Dan Ryan) and West-Northwest Routes (with all of the West-Northwest's 2000s being reassigned to the West-South Route). The busy North-South Route would not receive High Performance Series cars (as the 2000s and 2200s became known) until the 2400s in 1976.

Speaking of the 2400s, 2599-2600 was the last married-pair of that series built - but not the last one to be delivered to the CTA. 2491-2492, which was originally equipped with a solid-state chopper control, was returned to Boeing-Vertol after testing (2493-2494, 2495-2496, 2497-2498 and 2499-2500 never left the factory with the solid-state chopper control), and all 10 of those cars were converted to the conventional cam control making them the last of the 2400s that were actually delivered to the CTA.

I always wondered why #2499-#2500 went into service 11/20/79, (I thought maybe it was a misprint, I guess not) when others around them like #2503-04 went into service 1/29/78. Speaking of the #2000's, those were removed from West-Northwest when it was discovered they were incompatible with the at grade sections of the Douglas branch. I forget what the problem was. I think either it was the cars were too heavy for that area or there was premature wear on cars traveling through that section, so the cars were yanked. With all the incompatible issues i've heard of lately, like Metra's new engines being too heavy for the Union Pacific bridges, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some issue like that with the #5000's, but the problems could be electrical, like the cars are putting too much load on the system, so they go to lighter lines to avoid it. It may easy to shift around 200 cars, But with 700 cars coming they will end up on most lines problem or not.

[toppdawg12]

How many 5000-series cars are on the property to date?

[Guest]

ToppDawg, add two more to the roster!!! I was driving down Oakton st. in Des Plaines this afternoon, on my way to Des Plaines Hobbies. I spotted one flatbed semi truck carrying car #5049 and within a few minutes #5050 was right behind. Both cars of course headed to Skokie. I quickly changed my plans, turned around and followed the convoy all the way to Skokie Shops, I snapped some good pics in transit, pics of the new Oakton Station and the arrival at Skokie Shops, it was pretty cool to watch. I liked looking at the superclean undercarriages, chalk marks on the wheels and the brand new carbody. Once in Skokie, the convoy truck drivers didnt mind me snapping pics. Also I made sure I stayed across the street so as not to upset anyone! . More to come!!!