5000-series - Updates

[CURRENTZ_09]

As indicated by this Tribune piece on the investigation of the apparently now aborted Bombardier sole source contract, Molly Sullivan and her crew at the CTA have other things to do than get information to the public, including hiding information from the public and press.

In any event, I don't think that the Emanuel administration is interested in another celebration of another CTA embarrassment. What will be more likely is that someone on this forum will post "I saw cars 50XX-50XY on the Pink Line this morning, with a Pink or Orange sign." The Mayor has too many other press appointments, such as explaining how the murder rate went up after he changed police chiefs (come to think about it, that is another embarrassment of a different kind).

Oh WOW, ok. I am very disappointed to hear all this secrey going on, but i do agree with the mayor, i wouldn't want another public display of another embarassement again either, so the video that i have of the November 8th celebration will be the one they will keep too. But, the CTA is an agency of the public, you would think that being involved with the community and it's riders would be important to them in keeping them informed about the lastest transit happenings, but if they gonna be shady like that, then ill be shady with my coin and drive around the city. Shame CTA Shame

[sw4400]

According to the Sun Times report here, the new railcars will be phased back in on the Pink Line. Do you think the following married pair units will be returned there when they get re-entered into service in May?

Former Pink Line Units:

5001-5002,5013-5014,5015-5016,5019-5020,5021-5022,5023-5024,5037-5038,5039-5040,

5041-5042,5043-5044,5045-5046,5049-5050,5051-5052,5053-5054,5055-5056,5057-5058,

5059-5060,5061-5062,5063-5064,5065-5066,5067-5068,5069-5070

Unknown Assignments/Unassigned Units:

5003-5004,5005-5006,5007-5008,5009-5010,5011-5012,5017-5018,5025-5026,5027-5028,

5029-5030,5031-5032,5033-5034,5035-5036,5047-5048

[sw4400]

The CTA doesn't appear to be in a big hurry to reintroduce the 5000-Series railcars in May, as this story suggests. The cars haven't been formally accepted for service, despite repairs and only a few of the 54 cars will be added at a time. Rail Operators need to undergo training as to how to operate them again, so expect to see out-of-service railcars in the coming weeks into May, I guess. The CTA is checking for other issues extremely carefully and all cars will undergo additional testing before given the green light for service again. The 2200's and 2400's appear to be remaining in service indefinitely as the CTA is not comfortable enough with the new railcars to start retirements yet.

Return to service will be as follows:

-Pink Line as soon as the railcars start returning for service

-Green Line when the Pink Line finishes getting their allotment of 5000-Series railcars

-Red Line will start getting the railcars in 2014, following repairs to the North and South sides of the line.

In-between, look for another one or two lines to probably receive the 5000-Series railcars when they start returning for service. My possibilities are Orange, Yellow, Brown and Blue. The Purple Line uses the same North Side rails past Belmont that the Red Line uses, and those tracks are in the same deteriorated condition, if not worse. My Purple Line Express from Howard to Belmont had to stop and move slowly in certain sections around Granville, Thorndale, Sheridan and just before the Clark St. Jct.(that could've been because of Brown Line passings). So look for the Purple Line to probably get the 5000-Series railcars around 2014 as well. 2600-Series and 3200-Series railcars could retire the 2400's they have in the meantime.

[See Tea Eh]

The CTA doesn't appear to be in a big hurry to reintroduce the 5000-Series railcars in May, as this story suggests.

The most shocking part of that story to me isn't that they're being careful in returning the cars to service, but that Peter Ousley is still there. He should have been the first guy to leave after Rich Rodriguez was shown the door.

I still don't see how CTA can have a COO who had never worked in the transportation industry in his life before coming over from city hall just a year or so earlier.

[Busjack]

The most shocking part of that story to me isn't that they're being careful in returning the cars to service, but that Peter Ousley is still there. He should have been the first guy to leave after Rich Rodriguez was shown the door.

I still don't see how CTA can have a COO who had never worked in the transportation industry in his life before coming over from city hall just a year or so earlier.

But then you also have Claypool, who doesn't have any qualifications, either.

At least Ousley said who he was, as opposed to the usual "CTA Spokesperson" or on occasion Molly Sullivan identifying herself.

I sure don't know what the internal politics are at CTA, but the story sounds credible, except for the inference that after getting 164 or so cars to run the Pink and Green Lines (supposedly about 140 already in some stage of manufacture or delivery), CTA is just going to hold onto 2 to 4 cars a week (or about 100-200 cars) to get both ends of the Red Line in a state of partial repair.

But, despite the 1-1/2 years of prior testing, I guess CTA doesn't want to get bit again.

[artthouwill]

Other than my saying that I used a [fictitious name as a] place holder because I was too lazy to look it up, one would assume that the new Chinese and German foundries that are supplying the replacement parts on the 5000s would also be used.

But, with regard to any other parts, one would assume that if the issue was that the 3200s have to be compatible with the 5000s and that required the use of Bombardier proprietary information, then whatever parts are going to be used in the 5000s going forward would have also been used in the rehabbed 3200s.

Are you saying the 3200s will be rehabbed to be compatible with the 5000s?? Aside feom the testing period back in 1993 and aside from 3457 /3458, I have yet to see a 3200 train with any current series, even though they are compatible with them all. Why would I think they would even consider training Rehabbed 3200s with 5000s. If the reason is to make more railcars DC, then ok, but you will still have incompatible AC 2600s for another decade.

[Busjack]

Are you saying the 3200s will be rehabbed to be compatible with the 5000s?? Aside feom the testing period back in 1993 and aside from 3457 /3458, I have yet to see a 3200 train with any current series, even though they are compatible with them all. Why would I think they would even consider training Rehabbed 3200s with 5000s. If the reason is to make more railcars DC, then ok, but you will still have incompatible AC 2600s for another decade.

My comment was based on the following from the Tribune article:

In return, the company would be awarded a multiyear, $300 million contract to update 20-year-old rail cars at the facility, CTA officials confirmed. ...

By allowing Bombardier to use proprietary information to create a uniform rail car design, the CTA's older trains from another maker would be configured with many of the same technical specifications on the new trains from Bombardier — resulting in greater operational and maintenance efficiencies, Sullivan said.

If that isn't as clear of a statement of what the intention is, I don't know what is.

I previously mentioned that the CTA budget indicated about $900K per car. The headline of the Tribune story and the above quote say "$300 million contract," which would be $1.16 million a car. For that money, CTA darn better get something compatible with the 5000s, especially if they are using Bombardier proprietary information as an excuse for what they tried to do.

What they intend to do with the remaining 200 2600s is beyond me. Maybe they think they will get another grant.

[Ptbnl]

Im a new flagman hire and the other day I saw a 5000 rail car on the brown line track that was "not in service". It had like 6 cta guys in it.

[BusHunter]

I took a quick tour of Harlem yard (Green) yesterday. Seems they have at least 20 #5000's there. They have 12 around where the training train lays up. Most cars seem to be #5047 and up. Spotted #5079 - #5082 there as well. (previously unmentioned) 2 or 4 cars a couple tracks north of that. I also spotted 2 sets in the Harlem shop.

[sw4400]

I took a quick tour of Harlem yard (Green) yesterday. Seems they have at least 20 #5000's there. They have 12 around where the training train lays up. Most cars seem to be #5047 and up. Spotted #5079 - #5082 there as well. (previously unmentioned) 2 or 4 cars a couple tracks north of that. I also spotted 2 sets in the Harlem shop.

I wouldn't bank on seeing these units in service anytime soon. The CTA reportedly is going to take a long, slow, thorough time inspecting each and every car that returns from rehab and comes in brand new from Plattsburgh. 5000's may not start running on rail lines in revenue service until mid-summer.

[artthouwill]

Currently following a 5000 series Pink Line ttrain in what looks like revenue service. My Green Line train isn't close enough to get car numbers, but I could see the amber color in the run box .

[joechicago]

Hilkevitch is reporting that 46 5000's have been turned back over to the CTA and will return to revenue service on the Pink Line on Sunday, May 6th.

Story here

[Busjack]

Hilkevitch is reporting that 46 5000's have been turned back over to the CTA and will return to revenue service on the Pink Line on Sunday, May 6th.

Story here

Well, someone else seems to have been incorrect.

What may be interesting in that story is that it referred to 6 car trains, which others here said were possible upon acquiring the new cars, but not what the Pink Line previous ran.

[ChicagoNova]

I spotted the 5000 Series cars actually in revenue service on the Pink Line in the Loop. I didn't get the exact numbers, but the destination sign read "54/Cermak".

[Amtrak41]

6 car trains because of gapping near Tower 18 ?

If so, what happens when they hit the Orange & Green lines - waste car miles off-peak ?

[Mr.cta85]

I spotted the 5000 Series cars actually in revenue service on the Pink Line in the Loop. I didn't get the exact numbers, but the destination sign read "54/Cermak".

Great news! Hey did they have the color LED signs on them?

[artthouwill]

6 car trains because of gapping near Tower 18 ?

If so, what happens when they hit the Orange & Green lines - waste car miles off-peak ?

Apparently no one has figured out why these cars have gapping problems as opposed to the older cars, hence 6 cars on this line. I think 6 cars are justified for rush periods on the Pink Line, but off peak begs a different question.

[Amtrak41]

Apparently no one has figured out why these cars have gapping problems as opposed to the older cars, hence 6 cars on this line. I think 6 cars are justified for rush periods on the Pink Line, but off peak begs a different question.

CTA should send BBD the bill for running up extra car miles until the geniuses figure it out. I think CTA got talked into far too much sophistication and technology for their own good.

[Busjack]

CTA should send BBD the bill for running up extra car miles until the geniuses figure it out. I think CTA got talked into far too much sophistication and technology for their own good.

Depends on the terms of the contract. For instance, if you look at the Construction Reports, they have said for a long time now that Alstom was late on the boards, but only refer to a "recovery schedule" and "an acceptable contract time extension at no cost to the CTA," but not liquidated damages for delay.*

I would assume having the signal system fouled up at Howard, including several service outages on the Yellow Line,** maybe because of it, would incur more definable costs than having to run 40 year old cars an extra 3 months. Unless CTA can prove the costs, and they were proximately caused by the breach of contract, in the absence of a liquidated damages clause, they don't get any compensation.

______

*Liquidated damages mean something like "for each day during the warranty period when each car is out of service, proposer pays CTA $500.00."

** I tried it in Yellow, but I couldn't even see it. Also, I see that someone adept at using the copy and paste keys took down his post, perhaps realizing what he had posted on 03 May, to wit:

I wouldn't bank on seeing these units in service anytime soon. The CTA reportedly is going to take a long, slow, thorough time inspecting each and every car that returns from rehab and comes in brand new from Plattsburgh. 5000's may not start running on rail lines in revenue service until mid-summer.

.

[sw4400]

I took a quick tour of Harlem yard (Green) yesterday. Seems they have at least 20 #5000's there. They have 12 around where the training train lays up. Most cars seem to be #5047 and up. Spotted #5079 - #5082 there as well. (previously unmentioned) 2 or 4 cars a couple tracks north of that. I also spotted 2 sets in the Harlem shop.

Based on the info provided by BusHunter, the fact that only two lines will be getting 5000's currently and how CTA likes to keep the stock in number blocks together to some extent(1,2,3, evens & odds), this should be the assignment list for the 5000's, but I'm not ashamed to say this could be wrong...

Pink Line

5001-5046*

This number of units will allow the Pink Line 2600's to be moved to another needing line and allow those units borrowed from the Blue and Red Lines to be returned there.

Green Line

5047-5144*

*=This will replace the 2400's and 2600's on the Green Line, allowing retirement or movement of those not yet going to be scrapped to another needing line. The six 2600's will be moved to another line.

[BusHunter]

Based on the info provided by BusHunter, the fact that only two lines will be getting 5000's currently and how CTA likes to keep the stock in number blocks together to some extent(1,2,3, evens & odds), this should be the assignment list for the 5000's, but I'm not ashamed to say this could be wrong...

Pink Line

5001-5046*

This number of units will allow the Pink Line 2600's to be moved to another needing line and allow those units borrowed from the Blue and Red Lines to be returned there.

Green Line

5047-5144*

*=This will replace the 2400's and 2600's on the Green Line, allowing retirement or movement of those not yet going to be scrapped to another needing line. The six 2600's will be moved to another line.

Car numbers right now are scattered. (Pink line has cars in #5070's) All cars still have amber destinations. I think (I'm not positive) that #5079 starts new cars that were delivered starting in March 2012. That may be why there on the Green line, they are still in test mode. Interestingly enough, the lighted system maps in the cars do not yet reflect Morgan/Lake on the Green or Pink lines or Oakton station on the Yellow line. Car cards do reflect this over the doors, (not the pink line cards though, only system map ones) but for some reason Morgan/Lake is not reflected as a transfer station. I guess someone made a boo-boo. :P

[Busjack]

Car numbers right now are scattered. (Pink line has cars in #5070's) All cars still have amber destinations. I think (I'm not positive) that #5079 starts new cars that were delivered starting in March 2012. That may be why there on the Green line, they are still in test mode. Interestingly enough, the lighted system maps in the cars do not yet reflect Morgan/Lake on the Green or Pink lines or Oakton station on the Yellow line. Car cards do reflect this over the doors, (not the pink line cards though, only system map ones) but for some reason Morgan/Lake is not reflected as a transfer station. I guess someone made a boo-boo.

That gets back to the definition of a transfer station, including why Ashland was only a transfer station partially, and why every station between Belmont and Merchandise Mart isn't one. If you are going from inbound Pink to outbound Green, or vice versa, and stay on until Clark & Lake, a couple of trains will pass you in the other direction. On the other hand, if you are going from inbound to inbound (or more properly, to 63-Ashland or Cottage Grove), it doesn't matter where you transfer between Ashland and Adams Wabash; your train will still be behind you. Different at Belmont or Fullerton, since a Red can theoretically pass a Brown or Purple.

[jtrosario]

...but for some reason Morgan/Lake is not reflected as a transfer station.

Transfer points are identified at first and last stations where two or more lines converge or diverge. WB Pink and Green converge before Clinton, and diverge after Ashland. EB Pink and Green Converge before Ashland and diverge after Adams. Those are considered transfer stations between the Pink and Green Lines.

This is also why there are no map identified transfers at Randolph, Madison, LaSalle, and Quincy (also Morgan). Although one could transfer at these stations from Pink to 3 or 4 other lines, the first and last opportunities to do so are located at other stations.

[sw4400]

Car numbers right now are scattered. (Pink line has cars in #5070's) All cars still have amber destinations. I think (I'm not positive) that #5079 starts new cars that were delivered starting in March 2012. That may be why there on the Green line, they are still in test mode. Interestingly enough, the lighted system maps in the cars do not yet reflect Morgan/Lake on the Green or Pink lines or Oakton station on the Yellow line. Car cards do reflect this over the doors, (not the pink line cards though, only system map ones) but for some reason Morgan/Lake is not reflected as a transfer station. I guess someone made a boo-boo.

Ok. I'll put 5001-5082 under the Pink Line, and all additional units until the Green Line starts putting 5000's in revenue service.

[artthouwill]

Spotted 5000 series yrain om Pink.Line. I couldn't het.the numbers of the 4 car consist.