More Bus Moves

[artthouwill]

OK I have been a proponent of some garage sharing, especially on long routes (Western and Halsted), but a lot of this garage sharing is ridiculous. Why would 77th be doing 95W, 106, 112, 119 with 103rd doing the 2 and the 6? Alot of unnecessary crisscrossing across the city. Maybe the justification is to consolidate all of the south side artics at one garage.

[Busjack]

OK I have been a proponent of some garage sharing, especially on long routes (Western and Halsted), but a lot of this garage sharing is ridiculous. Why would 77th be doing 95W, 106, 112, 119 with 103rd doing the 2 and the 6? Alot of unnecessary crisscrossing across the city. Maybe the justification is to consolidate all of the south side artics at one garage.

The explanation that was given is that basically any run that uses the 95-Ryan terminal can be interlined with any other run that uses that terminal. All the shared routes you mention use that terminal.

The CTA schedule frequency may be getting close to that on Pace, where interlining basically was justified by the fact that run times on a single round trip did not match the frequency on the route. A typical situation for Pace was that the old 212 would get to Davis about 15 minutes after the outbound 212 left Davis. Not being dumb enough to have the bus sit there for 45 minutes to go back out, it made the next 208 trip. Likewise, the next 208 that came in 50 minutes later went out on 212. The example itself is obsolete, but it illustrates the point.

Take the 106. Midday, it runs about every 20 minutes, but if you do a round trip from 103-Stony to 95th, and back to the next starting time at 103rd, it is 52 minutes, so either you have long recovery time, or you are short a bus, hence interlining. I also see that one bus starts at 103-Corliss, and I don't know from where it comes.

One might argue that only buses from 103 should be in the 95 terminal, but apparently the way things had to be reallocated to account for the garage closing and 77 losing X3, X4, and 6 meant that some 77 buses are there, Also, at least at one time, 95W was assigned to 77.

[jajuan]

Just from looking at assignment patterns the last couple days, it looks like Kedzie got upper 1340s up to at least 1372 because 1372 is on the 12 Roosevelt today.

[RJL6000]

And judging by midday runs, it looks like North Park has been holding back its Novas for part-time runs, except for those that are assigned to operate the few midday #49 runs the garage handles.

[Busjack]

And judging by midday runs, it looks like North Park has been holding back its Novas for part-time runs, except for those that are assigned to operate the few midday #49 runs the garage handles.

This is making me so confused.....

For that matter, except perhaps to offer some familiarity to those on Western, I don't see why NP (which had an all NF fleet) got Novas, and K didn't. If money is that tight, what is the justification for moves that did not directly result in Flxs being replaced?

[RJL6000]

This is making me so confused.....

For that matter, except perhaps to offer some familiarity to those on Western, I don't see why NP (which had an all NF fleet) got Novas, and K didn't. If money is that tight, what is the justification for moves that did not directly result in Flxs being replaced?

Also, #50 ran with Novas while it was an Archer route. But now that the #50 is run entirely from NP, it is currently (at this hour) all NF buses.

In any event, the most likely time periods that you'll see a Nova operating on a NP-only route are weekday AM and PM rush periods and evenings.

[sw4400]

I was amazed to see Optimas running on routes #11 Lincoln and #80 Irving Park. {See attachments.}

Just now, I espied bus #1435 running eastbound on route #77 Belmont. Has that bus been moved, or is it a loan? {see other attachment}

Optimas on Irving is suprising, Optimas on Lincoln not so much. Once upon a time when NP had Optimas, Sunday was Tastee-Freeze day on Lincoln.

[RJL6000]

Optimas on Irving is suprising, Optimas on Lincoln not so much. Once upon a time when NP had Optimas, Sunday was Tastee-Freeze day on Lincoln.

NP still does not have Optimas. And the #11 is one of several routes shared between NP and FG. This means that any Optimas (and for that matter any amber-signed Novas as well as those green-signed Novas with 6500-series numbering) on #11 are from FG.

You might also see a few green-signed Novas numbered in the upper 6680s to 6708 on Lincoln. Those approximately 22 buses are the only Novas based at the predominantly New Flyer-equipped NP Garage at this present time.

[ChicagoNova]

NP still does not have Optimas. And the #11 is one of several routes shared between NP and FG. This means that any Optimas (and for that matter any amber-signed Novas as well as those green-signed Novas with 6500-series numbering) on #11 are from FG.

You might also see a few green-signed Novas numbered in the upper 6680s to 6708 on Lincoln. Those approximately 22 buses are the only Novas based at the predominantly New Flyer-equipped NP Garage at this present time.

I saw some of those Novas numbered with the upper 6500's on #77 Belmont today. I'm wondering if those buses came out of F or P. I read somewhere that F is sharing #77 with K. Is that true? Or is F sharing that route with P?

[nflyer22]

Just from looking at assignment patterns the last couple days, it looks like Kedzie got upper 1340s up to at least 1372 because 1372 is on the 12 Roosevelt today.

I rode 1371 on the 62 this morning to school, still had the 'P' decal on the front windshield. One thing I really noticed was the bad braking it had; every time the bus was about to come to a complete stop there would be a loud screeching and the entire bus was subject to a harsh vibration. I will try to catch another transferred bus on the commute home later.

[Busjack]

I saw some of those Novas numbered with the upper 6500's on #77 Belmont today. I'm wondering if those buses came out of F or P. I read somewhere that F is sharing #77 with K. Is that true? Or is F sharing that route with P?

6570s and 6580s would be FG. Higher than that are supposedly 74.

[RJL6000]

6570s and 6580s would be FG. Higher than that are supposedly 74.

Actually, FG's green-signed Novas are numbered from around 6567 up to 6593. Most of the 6470s and lower 6480s plus 6594 to 6687 are 74th while the 6520s to mid-6560s are C. 6476 and 6688-6708 are NP. The rest of the green-signed Novas are 77th.

As for the amber-signed Novas (which were originally delivered as such), 6709-6844 are FG while 6845-6883 are 77th.

Also, some of NP's upper 1800s and lower 1900s are now starting to pop up on Chicago Garage-exclusive routes. With all this swapping going on, eventually all New Flyers numbered above 1850 would be C, while most of the 1300s and the upper half of the 1200s would be K. The 1600s would end up at 103, 74 or 77 while many of the 1700s would end up at NP. But for now there is little if any contingency among the 1000-series assignments.

[7944]

On Monday Feb 8, NF artic was working 80

[RJL6000]

On Monday Feb 8, NF artic was working 80

In this case, it was a loan from NP. FG was not supposed to receive any artics at this time.

By the way, the Nova #6476 that I mentioned in my previous post was working this afternoon's rush period on route #22.

[jajuan]

Actually, FG's green-signed Novas are numbered from around 6567 up to 6593. Most of the 6470s and lower 6480s plus 6594 to 6687 are 74th while the 6520s to mid-6560s are C. 6476 and 6688-6708 are NP. The rest of the green-signed Novas are 77th.

As for the amber-signed Novas (which were originally delivered as such), 6709-6844 are FG while 6845-6883 are 77th.

Also, some of NP's upper 1800s and lower 1900s are now starting to pop up on Chicago Garage-exclusive routes. With all this swapping going on, eventually all New Flyers numbered above 1850 would be C, while most of the 1300s and the upper half of the 1200s would be K. The 1600s would end up at 103, 74 or 77 while many of the 1700s would end up at NP. But for now there is little if any contingency among the 1000-series assignments.

It wouldn't make that much sense to do any swapping outside of what they already they did this weekend mainly to make room for the former Archer Novas elsewhere and filling empty slots that were held by Flxs with money being tight. So basically you had some upper 1800s and lower 1900s go to Chicago to make room for 6476 and 6687-6708 at NP, upper 1340s-at least 1372 (don't know if anything higher is K's since the other 1370s have been appearing on routes that are both K and NP) to Kedzie to fill in gaps left by K's former Flxs and leave space for Chicago to get Novas to name a few of the shifts. Now if they went further the way you suggest just to get some sequencing of the 1000s or Novas, it would just be a waste of money at that point.

NP having such a small number of Novas pretty much explains why no one has seen a Nova on the 50 since Saturday when Archer was still open.

[artthouwill]

The explanation that was given is that basically any run that uses the 95-Ryan terminal can be interlined with any other run that uses that terminal. All the shared routes you mention use that terminal.

The CTA schedule frequency may be getting close to that on Pace, where interlining basically was justified by the fact that run times on a single round trip did not match the frequency on the route. A typical situation for Pace was that the old 212 would get to Davis about 15 minutes after the outbound 212 left Davis. Not being dumb enough to have the bus sit there for 45 minutes to go back out, it made the next 208 trip. Likewise, the next 208 that came in 50 minutes later went out on 212. The example itself is obsolete, but it illustrates the point.

Take the 106. Midday, it runs about every 20 minutes, but if you do a round trip from 103-Stony to 95th, and back to the next starting time at 103rd, it is 52 minutes, so either you have long recovery time, or you are short a bus, hence interlining. I also see that one bus starts at 103-Corliss, and I don't know from where it comes.

One might argue that only buses from 103 should be in the 95 terminal, but apparently the way things had to be reallocated to account for the garage closing and 77 losing X3, X4, and 6 meant that some 77 buses are there, Also, at least at one time, 95W was assigned to 77.

The 106 has heavy frequency in the a.m. rush to accomodate Corliss high school students and Olive-Harvey students. Eastbound trips could be handled by buses deadheading to 103rd from downtown stopping at 95th and turning into 106s. There are enough routes at 95th that can interline with 106 if necessary without 77th's help.

If you want to account for 77th losing X3, X4, and 6, then 77th shouldn't be sharing the 2, 49A, and 71. It should have been the garage sharing the 8 with K and not 74th. It could've taken back the 95W completely. It could've been the garage that shared 49 with NP and 74th could've handled 94 and 54B alone. K could've handled 62 alone with C or NP operating the 50 and/or NP operating the 82 alone.

[jajuan]

The 106 has heavy frequency in the a.m. rush to accomodate Corliss high school students and Olive-Harvey students. Eastbound trips could be handled by buses deadheading to 103rd from downtown stopping at 95th and turning into 106s. There are enough routes at 95th that can interline with 106 if necessary without 77th's help.

If you want to account for 77th losing X3, X4, and 6, then 77th shouldn't be sharing the 2, 49A, and 71. It should have been the garage sharing the 8 with K and not 74th. It could've taken back the 95W completely. It could've been the garage that shared 49 with NP and 74th could've handled 94 and 54B alone. K could've handled 62 alone with C or NP operating the 50 and/or NP operating the 82 alone.

But since that's not how it occurred, it's moot. In a way it makes more sense for 77th and 103rd to share routes because before the realignment those were the garages that operated service on the far south side and southeast side of the city. Overall it doesn't make much difference because Kedzie is still doing most of the work when it comes to 8 and 62, with 74th pretty much doing rush hour runs. With the 82, NP has been doing equal work in the rush periods and maybe midday, but Kedzie handles it overall late evenings and if Sunday is any indication it will do all the runs on weekends. 145 is shared weekdays but again if Sunday is any indication, NP does all the runs on weekends.

[RJL6000]

NP having such a small number of Novas pretty much explains why no one has seen a Nova on the 50 since Saturday when Archer was still open.

Yep. Most of the NP Novas end up (so far) being used on the weekday #49 runs (plus a few of the weekend runs) operated out of NP. Occasionally, you might see a Nova or two on the #22 (as I detected on BusTracker during today's PM rush) or on a non-downtown route like the #155 (as someone else in these forums detected on BusTracker this past Sunday evening). Conversely, very few of NP's New Flyers are actually operated on the #49; most NFs on #49 are out of 74th.

By the way, 6687 is a 74th Nova, not a NP bus. NP has 6476 and 6688-6708. 6687 is on the #62 this evening - one of three 74th Garage runs on that route at the moment. The other two 74th Garage buses on Archer are another Nova (6685) and a 1500-series New Flyer. The four other buses on Archer this evening are all New Flyers from Kedzie.

[jajuan]

Yep. Most of the NP Novas end up (so far) being used on the weekday #49 runs (plus a few of the weekend runs) operated out of NP. Occasionally, you might see a Nova or two on the #22 (as I detected on BusTracker during today's PM rush) or on a non-downtown route like the #155 (as someone else in these forums detected on BusTracker this past Sunday evening). Conversely, very few of NP's New Flyers are actually operated on the #49; most NFs on #49 are out of 74th.

By the way, 6687 is a 74th Nova, not a NP bus. NP has 6476 and 6688-6708. 6687 is on the #62 this evening - one of three 74th Garage runs on that route at the moment. The other two 74th Garage buses on Archer are another Nova (6685) and a 1500-series New Flyer. The four other buses on Archer this evening are all New Flyers from Kedzie.

Looks like during the weekdays where the 145 and 148 are concerned, Kedzie does a lot of the runs when it comes to PM rush and the evenings. They're more even split weekday mornings with each garage primarily doing alternating runs of each other, and NP pretty much handles the 145 midday. Right now all the last 145s, five in total, are Kedzie buses all but one of them 4000s, that one being a 1000. Only one bus on 82 at this hour is from NP, bus 1940. The other five are 1000s from Kedzie.

[RJL6000]

As of 9:23 PM on the 9th, the two Novas (6685, 6687) are the only 74th buses on the #62 (as detected on BusTracker). The other five buses on that route are Kedzie's New Flyers (two 1170s, two 1600s and 1371). 1348 relieved 1371 sometime around 9:30.

And of course, I have yet to spot an artic or a 900-series ISE/Thundervolt series hybrid on either 21 or 60. But then again, the passenger load on either route is not high enough to justify operating artics there. However, I do occasionally detect 800-series 40-foot GM/Allison parallel hybrids on either or both of those routes. Yesterday, three 800s were on 21 and one hybrid was on 60. This evening, bus 800 is on the 60.

[RJL6000]

Conversely, very few of NP's New Flyers are actually operated on the #49; most NFs on #49 are out of 74th.

I spoke a little soon on this. As of 11:45 PM on Tuesday the 9th, two of the NP New Flyers are on 49. The rest of the buses on 49 are all Novas from 74th.

[RJL6000]

There's still no continuity to the assigned fleet numbers at this point. I previously thought the 6470s and all of the 6594-6687 group would be at 74th. As today's BusTracker showed, I was wrong on some counts. During the PM rush on the 9th, I told you about 6476 being on 22 (a NP route). At Midnight on the 10th, 6478 is on 87 and 6653 is on 4 (Cottage Grove) - both of them 77th routes.

[PACE NORTHWEST]

There's still no continuity to the assigned fleet numbers at this point. I previously thought the 6470s and all of the 6594-6687 group would be at 74th. As today's BusTracker showed, I was wrong on some counts. During the PM rush on the 9th, I told you about 6476 being on 22 (a NP route).

According to the new route assignments, 22 is both a NP and a 74th route.

[rideonrulez]

On Monday Feb 8, NF artic was working 80

In this case, it was a loan from NP. FG was not supposed to receive any artics at this time.

There is a North Park trip in the morning on the #80.

[RJL6000]

According to the new route assignments, 22 is both a NP and a 74th route.

There is a North Park trip in the morning on the #80.

Those fall exactly in line with my observation and that of the poster who saw an artic on #80 this past Monday.