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More Bus Moves


sw4400

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Don't forget, 103rd also operates the 169 and 192 which also are run entirely with artics (meaning there are barely enough for the 6 and 14 at times in the rush). Also 103rd has a few routes that can use them at times such as the 34 and 119 and other routes that serve the Dan Ryan Red Line station. North Park should give about 20 artics to 77th and 10 back to 103rd to help with the crowds on the south side

If there is any garage that is currently equipped with artics that is least in need of them, it might be Kedzie. Kedzie doesn't really need all of its current 56- or 57-artic allocation (based on the ridership levels of the routes they run). Given the limited number of artics currently in service, Kedzie needs only about 30 of them. That way, K could send 20 or so of their higher-numbered artics to 77th while NP could send an additional 10 or so back to 103rd. In addition, Kedzie does need a couple of the 500-series Optimas if they are to continue operating the #17 Westchester for much longer (personally, I think that the CTA should have turned over the route entirely to Pace). As it stands, the #17 is operated with 40-foot 1000s with the occasional 800- or 900-series hybrid (and those buses are often half-empty even during rush hour).

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If there is any garage that is currently equipped with artics that is least in need of them, it might be Kedzie. Kedzie doesn't really need all of its current 56- or 57-artic allocation (based on the ridership levels of the routes they run). Given the limited number of artics currently in service, Kedzie needs only about 30 of them. That way, K could send 20 or so of their higher-numbered artics to 77th while NP could send an additional 10 or so back to 103rd. In addition, Kedzie does need a couple of the 500-series Optimas if they are to continue operating the #17 Westchester for much longer (personally, I think that the CTA should have turned over the route entirely to Pace). As it stands, the #17 is operated with 40-foot 1000s with the occasional 800- or 900-series hybrid (and those buses are often half-empty even during rush hour).

You get no argument from me that Kedzie is also artic heavy but it didn't gain more artics like NP apparently did when it was already at 100-plus in number on the artic side for much of this year. And as busfan points out, the 192 is interlined with the 14 and does use artics that would otherwise run close to empty in the opposite peak direction had they operated on the 14 in that direction in the rush periods so as stated the 192 doesn't have effect on the number of buses needed on the 14 as Sam92 suggests. Overall there is room to improve the efficiency of the different bus sizes available in the whole fleet across the system.

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You get no argument from me that Kedzie is also artic heavy but it didn't gain more artics like NP apparently did when it was already at 100-plus in number on the artic side for much of this year. And as busfan points out, the 192 is interlined with the 14 and does use artics that would otherwise run close to empty in the opposite peak direction had they operated on the 14 in that direction in the rush periods so as stated the 192 doesn't have effect on the number of buses needed on the 14 as Sam92 suggests. Overall there is room to improve the efficiency of the different bus sizes available in the whole fleet across the system.

No wonder 192 and 14 share the same run numbers. Forgot that they interlined. Still need more artics at 103rd to keep the 6 and 14 entirely artic in the rush though. A lot of 1000's popping up in the rush and leads to many people having to wait for a bus to pass them up. And also agree with the plan for getting some artics from Kedzie to 77th and some from NP back to 103rd. On a side-note, is Forest Glen taking up runs on the 151 outside of rush hour? I recall seeing many FG nova's on that route on a Sunday which is odd being that it was the sunday of the air and water show. Seemed like there would have been nothing but 4000's up there

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No wonder 192 and 14 share the same run numbers. Forgot that they interlined. Still need more artics at 103rd to keep the 6 and 14 entirely artic in the rush though. A lot of 1000's popping up in the rush and leads to many people having to wait for a bus to pass them up. And also agree with the plan for getting some artics from Kedzie to 77th and some from NP back to 103rd. On a side-note, is Forest Glen taking up runs on the 151 outside of rush hour? I recall seeing many FG nova's on that route on a Sunday which is odd being that it was the sunday of the air and water show. Seemed like there would have been nothing but 4000's up there

The way the 14 is structured, it doesn't have to be entirely artic run during the rush periods. It just needs to be maintained at a high ratio of artics to 1000s to ease any rush hour overcrowding. From what I see it doesn't remain mad busy in both directions for most of the day just about everyday like on the 6. For that matter it's busy during the rush periods mainly in the respective peak direction of each rush period. That's why the interline it has with the 192 makes a lot of sense. While 103rd doesn't need to be losing anymore artics it doesn't need to gain all that many more either since as stated its rush hour only express routes get by with mainly 1000s. If it's anywhere on the south side that needs to have artic use it would be 77th again for use on routes like the 3 and 4 to help the Novas and 1000s there with the crowds on those routes. Thinking on it the 79 just might be able to use some artics also and handle them on its eastern portion more than some of us previously realized since North Park seems to make it work with the 22 being all artic in the weekday AM rush, owl and weekend hours with Clark Street being just as narrow for most of its stretch through the north side as 79th Street gets on the eastern half of route 79.

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The way the 14 is structured, it doesn't have to be entirely artic run during the rush periods. It just needs to be maintained at a high ratio of artics to 1000s to ease any rush hour overcrowding. From what I see it doesn't remain mad busy in both directions for most of the day just about everyday like on the 6. For that matter it's busy during the rush periods mainly in the respective peak direction of each rush period. That's why the interline it has with the 192 makes a lot of sense. While 103rd doesn't need to be losing anymore artics it doesn't need to gain all that many more either since as stated its rush hour only express routes get by with mainly 1000s. If it's anywhere on the south side that needs to have artic use it would be 77th again for use on routes like the 3 and 4 to help the Novas and 1000s there with the crowds on those routes. Thinking on it the 79 just might be able to use some artics also and handle them on its eastern portion more than some of us previously realized since North Park seems to make it work with the 22 being all artic in the weekday AM rush, owl and weekend hours with Clark Street being just as narrow for most of its stretch through the north side as 79th Street gets on the eastern half of route 79.

I agree that 77th needs some artics, but they're going to need a lot more than just 20 to satisfy Routes 3, 4, and 79.

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I agree that 77th needs some artics, but they're going to need a lot more than just 20 to satisfy Routes 3, 4, and 79.

Here's my ideal assignments for the artics if 77th were to get artics back:

Kedzie: 4000-4039, 4050-4069

77th: 4040-4049, 4070-4102

North Park: 4103-4149

103rd: 4150-4207

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Here's my ideal assignments for the artics if 77th were to get artics back:

Kedzie: 4000-4039, 4050-4069

77th: 4070-4102

North Park: 4103-4149

103rd: 4150-4207

That leaves out 4040-4049. Which garage would get those 10 buses under that scenario?

Never mind. That list assumes 4040-4049 were to go to 77th.

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Here's my ideal assignments for the artics if 77th were to get artics back:

Kedzie: 4000-4039, 4050-4069

77th: 4070-4102

North Park: 4103-4149

103rd: 4150-4207

Looks like Kedzie would be taking a lot more express runs with North Park to balance things with this arrangement but at least this is a more balanced artic assignment

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Let's face it folks--F. Gump Claypool isn't going to listen to any of this. You may have fun deciding what bus to switch where, but, more than likely, a huge fare increase on January 2, 2012 will take care of any overcrowding problem.

Am I being sarcastic? Or am I?

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Let's face it folks--F. Gump Claypool isn't going to listen to any of this. You may have fun deciding what bus to switch where, but, more than likely, a huge fare increase on January 2, 2012 will take care of any overcrowding problem.

Am I being sarcastic? Or am I?

They most likely do service cuts and fare raises.

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Let's face it folks--F. Gump Claypool isn't going to listen to any of this. You may have fun deciding what bus to switch where, but, more than likely, a huge fare increase on January 2, 2012 will take care of any overcrowding problem.

Am I being sarcastic? Or am I?

Fare increase or no, or whatever comes to deal with this state not getting it's act together in paying its bills including what's owed the RTA and thus the three service boards, keep in mind the discussions anyone has here about what goes where is and always has been theoretical. :P

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Yes 74th shares with K, but usually that is only during rush hour as the bulk of the 8 is operated by Kedzie. Also, 77th has the capacity to add buses and routes, so unless they are using the extra space for storing scrap buses, that is not an issue. While there are some routes that require a longer deadhead distance (keyword require), the idea is to operate efficiently. I'm not necessarily saying that 74th couldn't or shouldn't operate the 8, but I am saying that you could make a case for 77th to operate since it has room for buses and the terminus is 3/4 of a mile from the garage compared to a 4 mile deadhead from Kedzie to Halsted. However CTA makes it work is how they work it.

Well, I think I found a reason for the 8 being operated by Kedzie. In the PM rush there's always a 4000 running the 8 but it short turns at the Orange Line and it heads toward Lake Shore downtown. Any ideas of if it's interlining or what it's interlining with? The run number is 'K064' if it helps.

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You think that since some garages appear to be "blocking" the numbers now, that the following will eventually happen...

FG will get 1248-1252 from 103rd

NP will get 1300,1301 and 1323-1329 from 77th and Chicago, respectively as well as 1794,1796,1798 and 1799 from 103rd

C will get 1030-1034, 1598,1599 from 103rd and 1980 from NP, and 1597 from 74th

74th will get 1080-1084 from C and 1757-1759 from NP

This is just a quick glance over the lists of 1,030 New Flyer D40LF's at the CTA Garages. There are most likely more possible shifts to "block" the numbers.

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You think that since some garages appear to be "blocking" the numbers now, that the following will eventually happen...

FG will get 1248-1252 from 103rd

NP will get 1300,1301 and 1323-1329 from 77th and Chicago, respectively as well as 1794,1796,1798 and 1799 from 103rd

C will get 1030-1034, 1598,1599 from 103rd and 1980 from NP, and 1597 from 74th

74th will get 1080-1084 from C and 1757-1759 from NP

This is just a quick glance over the lists of 1,030 New Flyer D40LF's at the CTA Garages. There are most likely more possible shifts to "block" the numbers.

Yes, I think #1248 -#1252 will transfer to FG, if more cuts do occur, as well as most of the #1200's at 77th. 77th would most likely get the #1900's from North Park to offset the higher crowds with longitudinal seating. This seems to be the answer in places that don't have the artics like Chicago. They have to do something with the crowds. The way it's looking if the budget hole is as bad as last time with the cutting of 250 something buses, if they raise fares and cut service they may only lose 100-125 buses. It all depends what ratio the fare increase would be set at: higher fare increase = more buses stay around. With PACE seeing an increase in service, if CTA cuts outlying service PACE could take it over and maybe the cuts would be minimalized. But that would require the service boards working together. It going to be interesting to say the least. :rolleyes:

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You think that since some garages appear to be "blocking" the numbers now, that the following will eventually happen...

FG will get 1248-1252 from 103rd

NP will get 1300,1301 and 1323-1329 from 77th and Chicago, respectively as well as 1794,1796,1798 and 1799 from 103rd

C will get 1030-1034, 1598,1599 from 103rd and 1980 from NP, and 1597 from 74th

74th will get 1080-1084 from C and 1757-1759 from NP

This is just a quick glance over the lists of 1,030 New Flyer D40LF's at the CTA Garages. There are most likely more possible shifts to "block" the numbers.

What would 103 Get

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