New Eldorados?

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, Gil said:

The 5 of them 40ft buses are for Pulse Halsted Street Line that will debut soon from Harvey Transportation Center to 95th/DanRyan CTA Station and it will be wrapped you're trying to say, look at the difference the 40ft diesel and GNC buses and the new 30ft Eldorado national axess that is recently debuting since the beginning of February. I'll post some pics you'll see what the difference is?

I know what the Axxess CNG 20500s look like.  What you don't seem to understand is that the 20300 series buses that are debutingARE NOT AXXESSES  BUT THEY ARE EZ RIDERS.  The front ends were changed from the flat faces of the 2600s to the same front end styling the Axxess buses have. Again, the 30 ft buses (20309 series) are EZ Riders, not Axxess. 

[Gil]

Look at the difference between a 40 Ft Eldorado national axess GNC and a Eldorado national axess 30ft but it does look kinda similar to EZ Rider II but it's not gonna sound the same because it has a different engine for example, back in 2006 when the EZ Rider II debuts it has a Cummins 6.7 ISB and now 15 years later the new buses has a Cummins L9.

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, Gil said:

Look at the difference between a 40 Ft Eldorado national axess GNC and a Eldorado national axess 30ft but it does look kinda similar to EZ Rider II but it's not gonna sound the same because it has a different engine for example, back in 2006 when the EZ Rider II debuts it has a Cummins 6.7 ISB and now 15 years later the new buses has a Cummins L9.

Engines are options on buses.   You can order them with Cummins. Detroit Diesel, Caterpillar engines.  Teansmissions are also options.  You can choose Allison, ZF.  You are still calling the 30 ft buses Axxess, and for the LAST TIME  I am telling you that those buses are EZ Riders.  They come in 30 ft and 35 ft.  The Axxess buses come in 40 ft. Stop calling the EZ Riders  Axess. 

[MiExpress]

6 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I know what the Axxess CNG 20500s look like.  What you don't seem to understand is that the 20300 series buses that are debutingARE NOT AXXESSES  BUT THEY ARE EZ RIDERS.  The front ends were changed from the flat faces of the 2600s to the same front end styling the Axxess buses have. Again, the 30 ft buses (20309 series) are EZ Riders, not Axxess. 

 

3 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Engines are options on buses.   You can order them with Cummins. Detroit Diesel, Caterpillar engines.  Teansmissions are also options.  You can choose Allison, ZF.  You are still calling the 30 ft buses Axxess, and for the LAST TIME  I am telling you that those buses are EZ Riders.  They come in 30 ft and 35 ft.  The Axxess buses come in 40 ft. Stop calling the EZ Riders  Axess. 

Long time reader of this forum. I'm unimpressed by the tone of your posts as well as the inaccurate information contained in them. First, neither Caterpillar or Detroit Diesel have offered engines for heavy duty transit buses in many years. 

The Axess (correct spelling) has been offered in both 35 and 40 foot lengths for years, likely since the Axess model was introduced in the early 2000's. Straight from the ENC website https://www.eldorado-ca.com/heavy-duty-bus. The 30 foot version is the newest offering of the Axess model and is not yet reflected on the website.

As for the 30 foot Axess model, there are several things that confirm that these PACE buses are indeed 30 foot Axess buses:

1. REV Group (ENC parent company) press release announcing the order. The pertinent info:

Sep. 12th, 2019

RIVERSIDE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- ElDorado National-California (ENC), a subsidiary of REV Group and manufacturer of heavy-duty transit buses, received an award of contract to supply 23 Diesel Axess 30’ buses to Pace, the suburban bus division of the Regional Transportation Authority in the Chicago metropolitan area. This is the first release of a five-year contract with a provision for 164 Diesel Axess 30’ buses. The contract award is estimated at over $80 million in revenue over the contract life, along with related optional vehicle features, spare parts and training.

2. Buses, like any other vehicle, are assigned Vehicle Identification Numbers (VIN) numbers which provide information on the bus such as body style, length, etc. In the case of ENC, the breakdown can be found here: https://vpic.nhtsa.dot.gov/mid/home/displayfile/66eeaab0-c880-4e77-bd68-c8a3edc63b2b

Note position 4 which identifies the model: A = Axess, M = EZ-Rider. 

Elsewhere on this forum, PACE fleet inventories have been posted. The most recent one includes VIN numbers for the new 20300 series buses. Using the VIN from 20309 as an example:

1N9ALAL92LC084157

Position 4 of the VIN is 'A' which indicates that these buses are Axess buses.

3. While both the Axess and E-Z Rider now share a similar sloped front design, the headlight arrangements are different between the two. In fact one of the photos you quoted clearly shows that.

Given these facts, especially the VIN information, it is clear these 20300 series buses are Axess buses. So please stop calling these Axess buses EZ-Riders. Lastly, please stop posting like a arrogant know-it-all and belittling other posters when you have no idea what you are actually talking about, as I just showed in my post.

[artthouwill]

5 hours ago, MiExpress said:

 

Long time reader of this forum. I'm unimpressed by the tone of your posts as well as the inaccurate information contained in them. First, neither Caterpillar or Detroit Diesel have offered engines for heavy duty transit buses in many years. 

The Axess (correct spelling) has been offered in both 35 and 40 foot lengths for years, likely since the Axess model was introduced in the early 2000's. Straight from the ENC website https://www.eldorado-ca.com/heavy-duty-bus. The 30 foot version is the newest offering of the Axess model and is not yet reflected on the website.

As for the 30 foot Axess model, there are several things that confirm that these PACE buses are indeed 30 foot Axess buses:

1. REV Group (ENC parent company) press release announcing the order. The pertinent info:

Sep. 12th, 2019

RIVERSIDE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- ElDorado National-California (ENC), a subsidiary of REV Group and manufacturer of heavy-duty transit buses, received an award of contract to supply 23 Diesel Axess 30’ buses to Pace, the suburban bus division of the Regional Transportation Authority in the Chicago metropolitan area. This is the first release of a five-year contract with a provision for 164 Diesel Axess 30’ buses. The contract award is estimated at over $80 million in revenue over the contract life, along with related optional vehicle features, spare parts and training.

2. Buses, like any other vehicle, are assigned Vehicle Identification Numbers (VIN) numbers which provide information on the bus such as body style, length, etc. In the case of ENC, the breakdown can be found here: https://vpic.nhtsa.dot.gov/mid/home/displayfile/66eeaab0-c880-4e77-bd68-c8a3edc63b2b

Note position 4 which identifies the model: A = Axess, M = EZ-Rider. 

Elsewhere on this forum, PACE fleet inventories have been posted. The most recent one includes VIN numbers for the new 20300 series buses. Using the VIN from 20309 as an example:

1N9ALAL92LC084157

Position 4 of the VIN is 'A' which indicates that these buses are Axess buses.

3. While both the Axess and E-Z Rider now share a similar sloped front design, the headlight arrangements are different between the two. In fact one of the photos you quoted clearly shows that.

Given these facts, especially the VIN information, it is clear these 20300 series buses are Axess buses. So please stop calling these Axess buses EZ-Riders. Lastly, please stop posting like a arrogant know-it-all and belittling other posters when you have no idea what you are actually talking about, as I just showed in my post.

Well done.  I stand corrected.  I apologize to you. @Gil, and all the members of this forum.  I try to give accurate information to the best of my knowledge.  I guess sometimes it gets outdated.  Thank you for your excellent reply.  Much appreciated.

[artthouwill]

7 hours ago, MiExpress said:

 

Long time reader of this forum. I'm unimpressed by the tone of your posts as well as the inaccurate information contained in them. First, neither Caterpillar or Detroit Diesel have offered engines for heavy duty transit buses in many years. 

The Axess (correct spelling) has been offered in both 35 and 40 foot lengths for years, likely since the Axess model was introduced in the early 2000's. Straight from the ENC website https://www.eldorado-ca.com/heavy-duty-bus. The 30 foot version is the newest offering of the Axess model and is not yet reflected on the website.

As for the 30 foot Axess model, there are several things that confirm that these PACE buses are indeed 30 foot Axess buses:

1. REV Group (ENC parent company) press release announcing the order. The pertinent info:

Sep. 12th, 2019

RIVERSIDE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- ElDorado National-California (ENC), a subsidiary of REV Group and manufacturer of heavy-duty transit buses, received an award of contract to supply 23 Diesel Axess 30’ buses to Pace, the suburban bus division of the Regional Transportation Authority in the Chicago metropolitan area. This is the first release of a five-year contract with a provision for 164 Diesel Axess 30’ buses. The contract award is estimated at over $80 million in revenue over the contract life, along with related optional vehicle features, spare parts and training.

2. Buses, like any other vehicle, are assigned Vehicle Identification Numbers (VIN) numbers which provide information on the bus such as body style, length, etc. In the case of ENC, the breakdown can be found here: https://vpic.nhtsa.dot.gov/mid/home/displayfile/66eeaab0-c880-4e77-bd68-c8a3edc63b2b

Note position 4 which identifies the model: A = Axess, M = EZ-Rider. 

Elsewhere on this forum, PACE fleet inventories have been posted. The most recent one includes VIN numbers for the new 20300 series buses. Using the VIN from 20309 as an example:

1N9ALAL92LC084157

Position 4 of the VIN is 'A' which indicates that these buses are Axess buses.

3. While both the Axess and E-Z Rider now share a similar sloped front design, the headlight arrangements are different between the two. In fact one of the photos you quoted clearly shows that.

Given these facts, especially the VIN information, it is clear these 20300 series buses are Axess buses. So please stop calling these Axess buses EZ-Riders. Lastly, please stop posting like a arrogant know-it-all and belittling other posters when you have no idea what you are actually talking about, as I just showed in my post.

BTW, welcome to the forum.  I see you just recently joined.  

[BusHunter]

6 hours ago, artthouwill said:

BTW, welcome to the forum.  I see you just recently joined.  

He's gonna make alot of friends!! Lol!!

[NewFlyerMCI]

Just now, NewFlyerMCI said:

https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/Regional_Transportation_Authority_Suburban_Bus_Division

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, they're Axess BRT 30fts. Sort by most recent year on the current roster

And once again, I should read before posting. Ignore my response.

[artthouwill]

3 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

And once again, I should read before posting. Ignore my response.

Yea, I found out about the 30 ft Axxess buses that o thought were still called EZ-RIDERS.   Whatever they are, as BusHunter said, they're Eldorkos. Im sorry for my errors.

[BusHunter]

5 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Yea, I found out about the 30 ft Axxess buses that o thought were still called EZ-RIDERS.   Whatever they are, as BusHunter said, they're Eldorkos. Im sorry for my errors.

I knew they were Axess' but I'm sure Ive got a few things wrong here and there. Unless your a cyborg, I wouldnt expect you to be perfect. I'm more at odds with his tone being a new poster around here. One thing our tech guru has still not explained is why ENC would put a cng type top on its buses and spend the money to do that if the bus was not cng? I'm kind of concerned about raising the height of the bus with all these low viaducts around. Granted that will not be a problem in Aurora but as more buses get that top more places they will go. I kind of get the Williy's myself taking my bus under some of these viaducts, thinking of 33rd and central but theres a bunch more. 11 feet is getting close to my height restriction, so I crawl through some of these. Better to be safe than sorry. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

On 2/13/2021 at 8:31 AM, BusHunter said:

I knew they were Axess' but I'm sure Ive got a few things wrong here and there. Unless your a cyborg, I wouldnt expect you to be perfect. I'm more at odds with his tone being a new poster around here. One thing our tech guru has still not explained is why ENC would put a cng type top on its buses and spend the money to do that if the bus was not cng? I'm kind of concerned about raising the height of the bus with all these low viaducts around. Granted that will not be a problem in Aurora but as more buses get that top more places they will go. I kind of get the Williy's myself taking my bus under some of these viaducts, thinking of 33rd and central but theres a bunch more. 11 feet is getting close to my height restriction, so I crawl through some of these. Better to be safe than sorry. 

I'm not the tech guru in question, but I can only assume Pace asked for the addition. After scouring the Axess BRT page on CPTDB Wiki, I can't find any diesel Axess BRTs with the CNG top, except these new 30ft buses Pace has now recieved. Maybe Pace just wanted the presentation of these buses being CNG?

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I'm not the tech guru in question, but I can only assume Pace asked for the addition. After scouring the Axess BRT page on CPTDB Wiki, I can't find any diesel Axess BRTs with the CNG top, except these new 30ft buses Pace has now recieved. Maybe Pace just wanted the presentation of these buses being CNG?

Is it possible Pace special ordered this way to have the option to convert these buses to CNG in the future,?

[NewFlyerMCI]

15 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Is it possible Pace special ordered this way to have the option to convert these buses to CNG in the future,?

I'm not well versed enough on buses to know; I didn't realize it was possible to convert a bus from diesel to CNG. This also begs the question of why CNG buses have the roof attachments for the : Between ENC's & Gillig's roof backpacks, NFI's higher than normal roof fins and Nova extension of their rear roof spoiler, what component of the bus is up there that requires additional protection? Surely it's not the CNG tanks is it?

To your point, if conversion is possible, that wouldn't surprise me at all, since Pace seems to be heading towards a majority CNG fleet. I imagine the next order of buses is going to be CNG as well, maybe even XN35s or XN40s

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I'm not well versed enough on buses to know; I didn't realize it was possible to convert a bus from diesel to CNG. This also begs the question of why CNG buses have the roof attachments for the : Between ENC's & Gillig's roof backpacks, NFI's higher than normal roof fins and Nova extension of their rear roof spoiler, what component of the bus is up there that requires additional protection? Surely it's not the CNG tanks is it?

To your point, if conversion is possible, that wouldn't surprise me at all, since Pace seems to be heading towards a majority CNG fleet. I imagine the next order of buses is going to be CNG as well, maybe even XN35s or XN40s

I don't know all the logistics.  You don't necessarily need a roof pack to store CNG, but there must be some reason why manufacturers build them that way.  But if its possible to convert those buses. I suppose it could go both ways depending on the needs of the agency.  At best it could offer flexibility.   I can't discount that maybe Pace likes the look of the roifpack.   With the exception of some BNSF viaducts in Aurora and possibly Evanston, the additional height shouldn't be a problem.

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

I don't know all the logistics.  You don't necessarily need a roof pack to store CNG, but there must be some reason why manufacturers build them that way.  But if its possible to convert those buses. I suppose it could go both ways depending on the needs of the agency.  At best it could offer flexibility.   I can't discount that maybe Pace likes the look of the roifpack.   With the exception of some BNSF viaducts in Aurora and possibly Evanston, the additional height shouldn't be a problem.

What's crazy to me is that while the roof backpack offers a more streamlined look, it still manages to look terrible and good at the same time. It's just something about the Eldorado's. Everyone else has good looking CNG buses except them, I prefer their diesel ones to the CNG.

[andrethebusman]

Roof tanks seem to be because with underfloor tanks a leak can get into body, roof just goes into atmosphere. Also less likely to get damaged in accident.

[artthouwill]

9 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

Roof tanks seem to be because with underfloor tanks a leak can get into body, roof just goes into atmosphere. Also less likely to get damaged in accident.

Maybe I'm late to the game, but the only roof tanks I know carry CNG or propane.  I've never known any diesel or liquid fuels to be on roof tanks.  With liquid being so easy to shift, that would seem to be hazardous making the bus very top heavy.  That's not including any possible roof punctures from viaducts, tree limbs, etc.   Prayerfully,, a leak wouldn't occur at the bottom of a roof tank, leaking into the passenger cabin like condensation used to leak from the a/c on some MCI D model coaches.Alternative fuel tanks at garages don't necessarily have to be underground.  

[NewFlyerMCI]

10 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

Roof tanks seem to be because with underfloor tanks a leak can get into body, roof just goes into atmosphere. Also less likely to get damaged in accident.

Oh ok, so the CNG fuel is stored on the roof? It's not like an advanced, oversized AC unit?

[Gil]

#20309 is on Route 530 going west 

[strictures]

On 2/16/2021 at 8:48 AM, artthouwill said:

Maybe I'm late to the game, but the only roof tanks I know carry CNG or propane.  I've never known any diesel or liquid fuels to be on roof tanks.  With liquid being so easy to shift, that would seem to be hazardous making the bus very top heavy.  That's not including any possible roof punctures from viaducts, tree limbs, etc.   Prayerfully,, a leak wouldn't occur at the bottom of a roof tank, leaking into the passenger cabin like condensation used to leak from the a/c on some MCI D model coaches.Alternative fuel tanks at garages don't necessarily have to be underground.  

My guess is that if a roof tank leaks, then the compressed gas vaporizes & dissipates into the air & there is little to cause it to combust, but if it were an underfloor tank, a leak could end up catching on fire from something, such as a spark & then there would be an explosion, killing people & destroying the bus. 

This is a poor example, but remember that Concorde that was destroyed in Paris, after a piece of FOD [foreign object debris] punctured a fuel tank on takeoff & the plane crashed, killing everyone on board & caused the scrapping of all the Concordes. 

There's all sorts of junk on the streets & if a piece of it punctured a fuel tank, then....  I occasionally see a car with a totally flat tire, riding on the rim, as the tire has been destroyed & a trail of sparks following the car.

[Gil]

#20320 is making its debut on Route 714 heading to Naperville Metra Station to be route 530.

[Gil]

#20301 heading to Naperville Metra Station on Route 722

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, Gil said:

#20301 heading to Naperville Metra Station on Route 722

Those Eldorado EZ-RIDERS  are really starting to roll in!  Lol!

[Gil]

#20321/#20307 is making their debut on Routes 722 and 802

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

16 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Those Eldorado EZ-RIDERS  are really starting to roll in!  Lol!

Correction: Axess BRT