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[Busjack]

One Last Question, which garage will get them first?

My garage except that it is only about 20 foot long. :lol:

[Mr.cta85]

One Last Question, which garage will get them first?

My guess is 103rd especially with the new Jeffery Jump coming in this fall. What better way to kick that off than with brand new articulated buses.

[Busjack]

My guess is 103rd especially with the new Jeffery Jump coming in this fall. What better way to kick that off than with brand new articulated buses.

Well, except as well documented, they are retrofitting the old ones. Wouldn't doing so be a waste of money, then?

[Mr.cta85]

Well, except as well documented, they are retrofitting the old ones. Wouldn't doing so be a waste of money, then?

No not really I mean I know they're suppose to basically retrofit 1,030 buses but the main ones they are going to tackle 1st are the 1000 series's that we're delivered in 2006 and 07 the latter part of that series were delivered in like 2008 and 09. They want to give an extra 6yrs to the earlier models so they can (for a lack of better words lol) live out their full 12 yrs of operation, and back to the money no it wouldn't be a waste cause the 4000 series are still fairly new only 4yrs and younger, and those buses can be transferred to other garages as the newer buses are coming in.

[Busjack]

No not really I mean I know they're suppose to basically retrofit 1,030 buses ...

You apparently missed all the stories about the Jeffery Jump, including the wraps. Go back to the home page.

[Mr.cta85]

You apparently missed all the stories about the Jeffery Jump, including the wraps. Go back to the home page.

No actually I read it, and the only thing that stuck out to me was when it said "the buses that serve the route will have special wrapping" but still whose to say they can't wrap the newer buses with the jump livery? But I'm not going to say I'm right about anything I'm just saying it wouldn't be a bad idea or a waiste of money if cta decided to go that direction as well.

[sw4400]

These buses will either be part of the Red Line reconstruction project, the de-crowding plan the CTA is implementing December 16, or both. So expect these 100 to probably be at garages that either have an overcrowded bus route or a garage that helps overcrowded bus garages. North Park comes to mind as one...

[Sam92]

No not really I mean I know they're suppose to basically retrofit 1,030 buses but the main ones they are going to tackle 1st are the 1000 series's that we're delivered in 2006 and 07 the latter part of that series were delivered in like 2008 and 09. They want to give an extra 6yrs to the earlier models so they can (for a lack of better words lol) live out their full 12 yrs of operation, and back to the money no it wouldn't be a waste cause the 4000 series are still fairly new only 4yrs and younger, and those buses can be transferred to other garages as the newer buses are coming in.

Noooo. They are using the artics that 103rd already has for the Jeffery Jump. Although 103rd may get some additional artics for other purposes. I'm thinking 77th and 103rd might be getting artics as these come in and then when May hits, 77th will have them for the shuttle service

[Sam92]

but still whose to say they can't wrap the newer buses with the jump livery?

The picture on the front page of 103rd's Artic already wrapped and ready for service come November says it quite well :lol:

[Sam92]

These buses will either be part of the Red Line reconstruction project, the de-crowding plan the CTA is implementing December 16, or both. So expect these 100 to probably be at garages that either have an overcrowded bus route or a garage that helps overcrowded bus garages. North Park comes to mind as one...

North Park's had their share. Its definitely 77th's turn along with a few more for 103rd to keep 6 covered along with the J14. Plus 103rd might wanna throw a few on other routes like 26, X28( which has seen a steady increase in artics and crowds) plus maybe 34 and 119 in their heavy times. Plus no doubt those 100 are gonna be helping with the shut down.

[artthouwill]

One Last Question, which garage will get them first?

You never know for certain with.CTA, but my guess is 77th based on storage capacity and the upcoming Red Line project next year.

[Busjack]

Noooo. They are using the artics that 103rd already has for the Jeffery Jump. Although 103rd may get some additional artics for other purposes. I'm thinking 77th and 103rd might be getting artics as these come in and then when May hits, 77th will have them for the shuttle service

As history shows, my mention of coincidence doesn't necessarily mean those 100 buses, but there isn't going to be relief to the rest of the system or Novas retired until that project is done.

[Sam92]

As history shows, my mention of coincidence doesn't necessarily mean those 100 buses, but there isn't going to be relief to the rest of the system or Novas retired until that project is done.

Of course not. And speaking of retiring Novas, 77th has 70 of the oldest novas that can be knocked off the list by artics or whatever is here as soon as the shutdown is over

[sw4400]

I see that you fixed your prior message in bold, but you still seem to have D (diesel) and DE (diesel electric hybrid) confused.

Actually, I was following this Procurement info, and that's how I came up with my number series for the 60' buses, hence the D60LFR and DE60LFR.

a Minimum of Fifty (50) and a Maximum of One Hundred and Fifty (150) Low Floor, 60 Foot, Accessible, Air Conditioned, Diesel or Hybrid Diesel-Electric Articulated Transit Buses...

That is under the presumption that the CTA will get a mix of Diesel and Diesel-Electric Articulated buses in the 60' order.

[sw4400]

As history shows, my mention of coincidence doesn't necessarily mean those 100 buses, but there isn't going to be relief to the rest of the system or Novas retired until that project is done.

Actually, this part of the procurement mentioned above in my prior post will pretty much retire the NOVA LFS when they start arriving sometime late 2013, early 2014...

Minimum of Three Hundred (300) and a Maximum of Four Hundred and Fifty (450) Low Floor, 40 Foot, Accessible, Air Conditioned, Diesel Transit Buses

300 is about 67% of the NOVA fleet, and 450 about 93% of the fleet. I think with the 60' Articulateds in the order as well, the NOVA fleet will start retirement when this new fleet starts rolling in.

[Busjack]

Actually, I was following this Procurement info, and that's how I came up with my number series for the 60' buses, hence the D60LFR and DE60LFR.

a Minimum of Fifty (50) and a Maximum of One Hundred and Fifty (150) Low Floor, 60 Foot, Accessible, Air Conditioned, Diesel or Hybrid Diesel-Electric Articulated Transit Buses...

That is under the presumption that the CTA will get a mix of Diesel and Diesel-Electric Articulated buses in the 60' order.

Doesn't answer that you got DE and D confused.

Obviously, the 100 options are for 33 DEs and 67 Ds. So, maybe, based on what MVTArider provided, the first 33 DEs will be 4300-4332. Who knows what Ds XX00 to XX66 will be (assuming that they are a different series). Maybe 4600 to 4666.

The procurement is for any number between 50 to 150 either DEs or Ds.I guess we agree on that.

[jajuan]

These buses will either be part of the Red Line reconstruction project, the de-crowding plan the CTA is implementing December 16, or both. So expect these 100 to probably be at garages that either have an overcrowded bus route or a garage that helps overcrowded bus garages. North Park comes to mind as one...

North Park already has 100 plus artics. So who would be driving any new ones assigned there. And the powers that be there are already using those artics on both express routes and busy local routes.

[jajuan]

North Park's had their share. Its definitely 77th's turn along with a few more for 103rd to keep 6 covered along with the J14. Plus 103rd might wanna throw a few on other routes like 26, X28( which has seen a steady increase in artics and crowds) plus maybe 34 and 119 in their heavy times. Plus no doubt those 100 are gonna be helping with the shut down.

I agree with you that 103rd may possibly get a few more artics to cover the 6 since it would be a little off to have the wrapped artics on the 6 when not on the J14. I'm leaning to 77th retaining more of them after the need for shuttles is over than you're probably accounting for though, just enough to cover the 6 at 103rd then enough at 77th to do work on the 3, 4, 79 and maybe the 87. Then start expanding out to some other garages that can house and maintain artics but doesn't already have them. So no to Kedzie and North Park especially with the changes of the North Lake Shore expresses from those two. I'm counting the artics from the 100 and those among the up to 450 mixed requisition since if a contract gets assigned the 450 should start a short time after the Dan Ryan rehab is complete.

[sw4400]

North Park already has 100 plus artics. So who would be driving any new ones assigned there. And the powers that be there are already using those artics on both express routes and busy local routes.

The only routes that the artics are used on from North Park are #22 Clark, #50 Damen, and the Lake Shore routes that I've seen that North Park runs. But North Park also does trippers on #152 Addison for Lane Tech, #154 Wrigley Field Express when the Cubs are playing at Wrigley, or if there's a concert or other event there. You can bet #77 Belmont will be co-run by North Park when they use artics to ease overcrowding there. I doubt they're going to take artics from 77th or 103rd and bring them all the way up to 3200 N. to help ease overcrowding and drive them all the way back deadheading to 77th or 103rd when North Park located at Foster just east of Kedzie can deadhead a shorter distance to and from there and run work Belmont. And any other north side route that needs help with overcrowding will probably be co-run by North Park, so a couple of extra articulated buses could be useful there, whether they take some DE60LF's from other garages, or a few of the new DE60LFR's that will start coming in probably around December 2012 or January 2013.

Forest Glen doesn't have the capacity to hold articulated buses, and it would be a expensive project to expand land there right now to have room for 60' buses.

[jajuan]

The only routes that the artics are used on from North Park are #22 Clark, #50 Damen, and the Lake Shore routes that I've seen that North Park runs. But North Park also does trippers on #152 Addison for Lane Tech, #154 Wrigley Field Express when the Cubs are playing at Wrigley, or if there's a concert or other event there. You can bet #77 Belmont will be co-run by North Park when they use artics to ease overcrowding there. I doubt they're going to take artics from 77th or 103rd and bring them all the way up to 3200 N. to help ease overcrowding and drive them all the way back deadheading to 77th or 103rd when North Park located at Foster just east of Kedzie can deadhead a shorter distance to and from there and run work Belmont. And any other north side route that needs help with overcrowding will probably be co-run by North Park, so a couple of extra articulated buses could be useful there, whether they take some DE60LF's from other garages, or a few of the new DE60LFR's that will start coming in probably around December 2012 or January 2013.

Forest Glen doesn't have the capacity to hold articulated buses, and it would be a expensive project to expand land there right now to have room for 60' buses.

That's not completely correct. North Park also uses artics on the 151 and school trippers of the 82 which after terminating at Homan and Congress deadhead into downtown for whichever rush hour expresses they get used besides those routes you limited the discussion. And it does not change the point I made that North Park is beyond well stocked in artics and doesn't need any more.

[See Tea Eh]

50 Damen? Other than perhaps school trippers, when does North Park run artics there? I don't see them.

Kedzie used to occasionally run NABIs on Damen back when those were the only low-floor buses at that garage, but that was a long time ago.

[jajuan]

50 Damen? Other than perhaps school trippers, when does North Park run artics there? I don't see them.

Kedzie used to occasionally run NABIs on Damen back when those were the only low-floor buses at that garage, but that was a long time ago.

It's a very rare occurence but he is correct that 50 Damen has had artic use from North Park. Though it's usually been one or two at most whenever I saw it happen. And those sightings are far and in between so I'm not surprised you haven't seen them on the route, and it's why I didn't challenge him on that detail.

[sw4400]

And it does not change the point I made that North Park is beyond well stocked in artics and doesn't need any more.

Well if North Park takes on #77 Belmont to help Forest Glen with the de-crowding plan, they might need additional articulated buses. Belmont is one of the highest volume bus routes when it turns onto Kimball and heads over to the Blue Line Subway station to pick up passengers... it's like half the city boards your bus relentlessly!!! I was one of the unfortunate ones on a 6000-Series Flxible once on Belmont, and when we got to the Subway, there had to be 30-50 people board our bus, taking all the seats, all the standing room and even standing on the stars in the front up against the door!!! It was a nightmare trying to exit the bus when you got to your stop. I doubt the CTA will be dumb enough to assign 77th or 103rd to cover a route that far north from the garage. North Park is the north side articulated bus garage, with Kedzie being the other, although it's located on S. Pulaski, which is a lot longer of a run for a articulated to come from there to cover Belmont. With North Park covering X98 Avon Express, #22 Clark, #50 Damen, #82 Kimball/Homan, #146 Inner Drive Express, #147 Outer Drive Express, #151 Sheridan, #152 Addison, #154 Wrigley Field Express, that already spreads the articulated supply. Now if you include in some of Forest Glen's busiest, high-volume routes like #56 Milwaukee, #74 Fullerton, #77 Belmont, #78 Montrose, #80 Irving Park, and #81 Lawrence, there's 15 routes that are high volume that require articulated buses. 100 sound like a lot, but divided into those 15 routes that comes to about 7 buses/route... That's insufficent, especially if some buses are out of service for repairs.

Again, we'll see what the CTA does with these articulateds that will start to come in around November and December, but I'm thinking North Park, Kedzie will get the DE60LFR's first, with 103rd getting some of their DE60LF's for the Jeffrey Jump project and the Red Line Rehabilitation project due to start in Spring, 2013. Remember, only these three garages are capable of storing and maintaining the 60' buses right now, the other garages have to be overhauled to store and maintain these larger vehicles.

[jajuan]

Well if North Park takes on #77 Belmont to help Forest Glen with the de-crowding plan, they might need additional articulated buses. Belmont is one of the highest volume bus routes when it turns onto Kimball and heads over to the Blue Line Subway station to pick up passengers... it's like half the city boards your bus relentlessly!!! I was one of the unfortunate ones on a 6000-Series Flxible once on Belmont, and when we got to the Subway, there had to be 30-50 people board our bus, taking all the seats, all the standing room and even standing on the stars in the front up against the door!!! It was a nightmare trying to exit the bus when you got to your stop. I doubt the CTA will be dumb enough to assign 77th or 103rd to cover a route that far north from the garage. North Park is the north side articulated bus garage, with Kedzie being the other, although it's located on S. Pulaski, which is a lot longer of a run for a articulated to come from there to cover Belmont. With North Park covering X98 Avon Express, #22 Clark, #50 Damen, #82 Kimball/Homan, #146 Inner Drive Express, #147 Outer Drive Express, #151 Sheridan, #152 Addison, #154 Wrigley Field Express, that already spreads the articulated supply. Now if you include in some of Forest Glen's busiest, high-volume routes like #56 Milwaukee, #74 Fullerton, #77 Belmont, #78 Montrose, #80 Irving Park, and #81 Lawrence, there's 15 routes that are high volume that require articulated buses. 100 sound like a lot, but divided into those 15 routes that comes to about 7 buses/route... That's insufficent, especially if some buses are out of service for repairs.

Again, we'll see what the CTA does with these articulateds that will start to come in around November and December, but I'm thinking North Park, Kedzie will get the DE60LFR's first, with 103rd getting some of their DE60LF's for the Jeffrey Jump project and the Red Line Rehabilitation project due to start in Spring, 2013. Remember, only these three garages are capable of storing and maintaining the 60' buses right now, the other garages have to be overhauled to store and maintain these larger vehicles.

And it's pretty much been established that has more to do with the bad case of bus bunching that is so chronic on Belmont than almost anything else. I pass by that route during various daytime hours and it's not uncommon to see upwards of 5 to 6 buses right behind each other in a given direction. Fix the bus bunching issue and you probably fix half the problem of having crush loads on a Belmont bus after a few blocks. The 147 is a good example of having artics operating on a route having little effect on buses of that route being overcrowded when bus bunching is a factor in any degree.

[sw4400]

Looking back at the roof pods on the now "supposed" DE60LFR at the New Flyer plant... I don't think it's a New Flyer DE60LFR in the picture... it looks like a New Flyer XN60LFR or X60LFR... whatever it is, it looks like a Xcelsior model.