Bringing Back a Route and/or Segment

[NewFlyerMCI]

10 hours ago, artthouwill said:

The X54 use to go Jeff Pk.  How did that routing go?

 

9 hours ago, CircleSeven said:

It turned west on Montrose, then north on Milwaukee to Jeff Park.

That needs to return. I could see the 8A/24 counting as a "connection", but the 54 situation is especially bad

[Master58]

Bring back # 173. 

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, Master58 said:

Bring back # 173. 

Are you going to get the University of Chicago to pay for it? That's been, for the past 10 years, CTA's condition for running any of those routes.

And you haven't given any reason to do so.

 

 

[cta5658]

How about the X28 Stony Island Express, but make it stop every 4 blocks instead of stopping at every block like the local 28 before running express on Lake Shore Drive and make all stops to Union Station and the rush hour 28's can terminate at 47th/Lake Park. What do you all think?

[Master58]

6 hours ago, Busjack said:

Are you going to get the University of Chicago to pay for it? That's been, for the past 10 years, CTA's condition for running any of those routes.

And you haven't given any reason to do so.

 

 

Easier way for students to get to the north side from the south side.  Without having to transfer to another route or take the the red line.  

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

I want 144 and 145 to come back. I used to ride 145 a lot before it got discontinued around 2010, and the 144 was a cool route I saw years ago that probably seemed useful. I’d be happy if these routes come back, especially 145 since there were recent sign glitches with 146 buses that kept showing up as a 145

[artthouwill]

4 hours ago, Master58 said:

Easier way for students to get to the north side from the south side.  Without having to transfer to another route or take the the red line.  

No one hardly rode 173 which is why the CRA and the University cut it.  Not only was the ridership nonexistent from Hyde Park. It actually duplicated the 151 to Belmont that hardly anyone took.  Unless students overwhelmingly demand it, it's not coming back. 

[Anthony Devera]

2 hours ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

I want 144 and 145 to come back. I used to ride 145 a lot before it got discontinued around 2010, and the 144 was a cool route I saw years ago that probably seemed useful. I’d be happy if these routes come back, especially 145 since there were recent sign glitches with 146 buses that kept showing up as a 145

Much of the old 144 routing is covered by the current 148, so if the 144 is brought back, the 148 should be discontinued. This actually might make sense; the 148 currently makes a weird set of turns at Lawrence, so straightening it into the 144 routing could make things simpler. If having the 144, 146, and 136 is too much service on Marine, the 136 can be moved to Clarendon between Irving Park and Lawrence, then run via Lawrence and Sheridan to Sheridan/Foster, then continue via its current routing on Sheridan.

As for the 145, it basically duplicated the 146 south of Irving Park (and to some extent, south of Wilson). All the sign glitches are for the 146 short turns to Grace (close to Irving Park), which covers the shared portion of the 145/146. I'd say instead of bringing back the 145, if people on Wilson really want a direct bus to Downtown, the 135 could be extended west via Wilson, restoring its original routing before 2003.

[Busjack]

5 hours ago, Master58 said:

Easier way for students to get to the north side from the south side.  Without having to transfer to another route or take the the red line.  

Apparently not worth the U of C's money, and Hyde Parkers generally rode the ME. See what art said.

But your rationale reminds me of the even more bizarre 174 to  the Red and Green Lines, even though the 55 bus was available,

[NewFlyerMCI]

11 hours ago, cta5658 said:

How about the X28 Stony Island Express, but make it stop every 4 blocks instead of stopping at every block like the local 28 before running express on Lake Shore Drive and make all stops to Union Station and the rush hour 28's can terminate at 47th/Lake Park. What do you all think?

The X28 never made all stops anyway. And while it's not as important due to the pandemic, there still needs to be additional service on Hyde Park Blvd, the 6 can't handle all that by itself.

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 minute ago, Busjack said:

Apparently not worth the U of C's money, and Hyde Parkers generally rode the ME.

But your rationale reminds me of the even more bizarre 174 to  the Red and Green Lines, even though the 55 bus was available,

Well, the 174 was probably always more reliable than the 55. Interestingly enough, UofC's shuttle service has restored some semblance of the 174, to at least Garfield Green Line

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

I want 144 and 145 to come back. I used to ride 145 a lot before it got discontinued around 2010, and the 144 was a cool route I saw years ago that probably seemed useful. I’d be happy if these routes come back, especially 145 since there were recent sign glitches with 146 buses that kept showing up as a 145

 

17 minutes ago, Anthony Devera said:

Much of the old 144 routing is covered by the current 148, so if the 144 is brought back, the 148 should be discontinued. This actually might make sense; the 148 currently makes a weird set of turns at Lawrence, so straightening it into the 144 routing could make things simpler. If having the 144, 146, and 136 is too much service on Marine, the 136 can be moved to Clarendon between Irving Park and Lawrence, then run via Lawrence and Sheridan to Sheridan/Foster, then continue via its current routing on Sheridan.

As for the 145, it basically duplicated the 146 south of Irving Park (and to some extent, south of Wilson). All the sign glitches are for the 146 short turns to Grace (close to Irving Park), which covers the shared portion of the 145/146. I'd say instead of bringing back the 145, if people on Wilson really want a direct bus to Downtown, the 135 could be extended west via Wilson, restoring its original routing before 2003.

Basically what Anthony said about 144 and 145 is correct. All they essentially did was take the buses off Wilson, which was getting a new L station. The most nonsensical thing then was that during rush hour, 145 Wilson-Michigan only made it to Grace, and did not run on Wilson, and basically got that designation because people between Irving Park and Belmont complained that their service was cut when that area was only designated 146. 10 years ago, all 145s to Grace became 146 to Grace, so there was no actual change in that zone. As noted, 148 was taken off Wilson to cover 144.

[NewFlyerMCI]

21 minutes ago, Anthony Devera said:

This actually might make sense; the 148 currently makes a weird set of turns at Lawrence,

Pretty sure it's just going to Foster/Marine, to either deadhead back downtown, to the garage, or to Berwyn to return as a 146. Also gives that little slice of Marine a faster way to get downtown since the 148 gets on LSD before the 146

2 hours ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

I want 144 and 145 to come back. I used to ride 145 a lot before it got discontinued around 2010, and the 144 was a cool route I saw years ago that probably seemed useful. I’d be happy if these routes come back, especially 145 since there were recent sign glitches with 146 buses that kept showing up as a 145

I also wouldn't mind the 145 coming back, but I don't see the impetus for that to happen honestly. Unlike the 147, which has only the Red Line, the 145 would have too much competition from the UPN, Red (& Purple) Line(s) & 146. While the 78 & 81 are, well, lackluster bus routes (in terms of frequency), idk if there's a sufficient enough need for the 145 vs taking one of those buses to Wilson or Marine to head downtown

[Busjack]

15 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

The X28 never made all stops anyway. And while it's not as important due to the pandemic, there still needs to be additional service on Hyde Park Blvd, the 6 can't handle all that by itself.

 

In those days, 28 didn't run when X28 did.

If S. Hyde Pk Blvd is the rationale, Union Station trips go via Hyde Park (schedule brochure) so essentially there's no difference.

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 minute ago, Busjack said:

In those days, 28 didn't run when X28 did.

If S. Hyde Pk Blvd is the rationale, Union Station trips go via Hyde Park (schedule brochure) so essentially there's no difference.

Hmm, idk how I missed that first part.

Your second line is essentially the point I was trying to make

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, Master58 said:

Well smart ass, It would give the students / hyde parkers an option. I'm quite aware of the ME and the 173s ridership lol. 

Then I guess my question is, unlike with other CTA routes where they determine the viability, the 173's was determined by UofC's; and they felt it wasn't enough to continue supporting it. So why would they now?

It's also not like there aren't a multiude of options to get from UofC to the north side, at least where the 173 ran. You could actually probably take the 6 & 146/151 and it'd take just under an hour. Less if you took the ME (another argument for Metra to actually join Ventra, but that's another conversation)

Sure, options are nice, (and I'm always one for restoring bus service) but you can't always expect to serve the needs of the few over the many. Especially not on UofC's dime. Besides, if history was any indication, there's no guarantee the 173 would do better now than it was before.

Edit: Also, forgot to add, might want to edit your post. You know the part I mean.

Edited February 11, 2022 by NewFlyerMCI
lol, this should be funny

[YoungBusLover]

8 hours ago, Master58 said:

Easier way for students to get to the north side from the south side.  Without having to transfer to another route or take the the red line.  

The #2(Being the quickest option during the PM rush),#6 along with the #192 are good options to take, I'd say the #2 picked up the slack that the #173 use to cover up until the loop which is where most U of C students would get off at. Most of the time they're getting off at rail stations or walking a few blocks over to transfer to Metra Lines and or northern LSD corridor routes. They've adjusted really well to the service change from almost over a decade ago. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

46 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

The #2(Being the quickest option during the PM rush),#6 along with the #192 are good options to take, I'd say the #2 picked up the slack that the #173 use to cover up until the loop which is where most U of C students would get off at. Most of the time they're getting off at rail stations or walking a few blocks over to transfer to Metra Lines and or northern LSD corridor routes. They've adjusted really well to the service change from almost over a decade ago. 

192 isn't the best option, and that's as an occasional rider when I'm going downtown during pm peak. If you're not at 57th/59th & Cottage, it's not worth walking, at it only lets you off at Roosevelt CTA & CUS/OTC

Agree on the ME thing. I do that now, taking the ME to the 147 when I need to go to the north side

[YoungBusLover]

7 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

192 isn't the best option, and that's as an occasional rider when I'm going downtown during pm peak. If you're not at 57th/59th & Cottage, it's not worth walking, at it only lets you off at Roosevelt CTA & CUS/OTC

Agree on the ME thing. I do that now, taking the ME to the 147 when I need to go to the north side

Well that route was never meant for the occasional rider to begin with but I was mainly implying those three routes as good options for the U of C demand. They serve there purpose better in the place of the now defunct #173.  

[Sam92]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

In those days, 28 didn't run when X28 did.

If S. Hyde Pk Blvd is the rationale, Union Station trips go via Hyde Park (schedule brochure) so essentially there's no difference.

It actually did. What happened was there was never a straight forward decision on where to put the 28 when it briefly became a downtown service. Some complained there were too many buses and contended that 28 belonged on Lake Park in a commercial corridor, others believed the 28 should supplement the 6 in rush hour. So when it was decided 28 shouldn't be a full time express, the X28 was created for the people that wanted a 6 supplement plus direct connection to Union without having to walk and the 28 remained for the people that wanted to ride to Lake Park at the time. 

[Sam92]

5 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

The X28 never made all stops anyway. And while it's not as important due to the pandemic, there still needs to be additional service on Hyde Park Blvd, the 6 can't handle all that by itself.

Stony island flows good as is and wouldn't need BRT unless it was staying on local streets. I'd say bring back downtown service full time but make the downtown routing the same as 6 so you'd have alternating runs. Union Station routing would be served from a new 25 South Hyde Park Express ending at 63rd and Stony. A few buses would be saved so you can give the 15 a bump in frequency for people who want that direct lake Park connection retained. 

[artthouwill]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

In those days, 28 didn't run when X28 did.

If S. Hyde Pk Blvd is the rationale, Union Station trips go via Hyde Park (schedule brochure) so essentially there's no difference.

Initially the 28 ended at 47th and the Red line.   Then in 2003 it became a full time express route ending at Union Station with some rush hour trips going to the Illinois Medical District.   Due to low ridership and overcrowding of the new 6 Jackson Park Express.the 28 was rerouted through Hyde Park via Hyde Park Blvd with the new 15 Jeffery Local swapping the Lake Park routing.   While rush hour ridership improved, nonpeak downtown ridership on the 28 remained abysmal.   It was decided to reinstate the 28 local with Lake Park routing during all service hours with the downtown rush service rebranded the X28 during rush hours.  WHEN this happened,  the 15 was rerouted back on Hyde Park because the local 28 was restored but passengers wanted the 25 back on Lake Park.  The local 28 did run during rush hour but at a reduced frequency as most buses ran the X28.

These services remain today except the X28 brand was removed for some stupid reason. 

Personally I never felt the Union Station routing worked well.  I think routing the downtown 38 to Michigan and Ohio or Oglivie would be better for alleviating crowds on the 6 and could even work on a full time basis.   The two problems with the current downtown 28 are the higher frequency of the 6 and the west loop routing of the 28

  While some passengers would take the 28 during the morning rush, the passenger has to choose which route to take during the p.m. rush.  Since the 6 has higher frequency and capacity (artics) and habitually that's what Hyde Parkers are used to doing,  the 6 is an obvious choice.   The 2 and 6 share State Street routing so people between 47th and Hyde Park can ride whatever comes first.

[Sam92]

24 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Initially the 28 ended at 47th and the Red line.   Then in 2003 it became a full time express route ending at Union Station with some rush hour trips going to the Illinois Medical District.   Due to low ridership and overcrowding of the new 6 Jackson Park Express.the 28 was rerouted through Hyde Park via Hyde Park Blvd with the new 15 Jeffery Local swapping the Lake Park routing.   While rush hour ridership improved, nonpeak downtown ridership on the 28 remained abysmal.   It was decided to reinstate the 28 local with Lake Park routing during all service hours with the downtown rush service rebranded the X28 during rush hours.  WHEN this happened,  the 15 was rerouted back on Hyde Park because the local 28 was restored but passengers wanted the 25 back on Lake Park.  The local 28 did run during rush hour but at a reduced frequency as most buses ran the X28.

These services remain today except the X28 brand was removed for some stupid reason. 

Personally I never felt the Union Station routing worked well.  I think routing the downtown 38 to Michigan and Ohio or Oglivie would be better for alleviating crowds on the 6 and could even work on a full time basis.   The two problems with the current downtown 28 are the higher frequency of the 6 and the west loop routing of the 28

  While some passengers would take the 28 during the morning rush, the passenger has to choose which route to take during the p.m. rush.  Since the 6 has higher frequency and capacity (artics) and habitually that's what Hyde Parkers are used to doing,  the 6 is an obvious choice.   The 2 and 6 share State Street routing so people between 47th and Hyde Park can ride whatever comes first.

If you did ogilvie would you do with right turn on to State vs Michigan? I'd say that's good but for matching terminals and possibly interlining, I'd send them both to either the current 6 terminal or both to Ogilvie to make scheduling on an alternating basis easier. J14 can take 26's terminal and do a few peak hour Wacker to 87th runs; 26 can go to Union and Ogilvie then either deadhead back south or become a 192

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Personally I never felt the Union Station routing worked well

This sounds crazy, but I bet ridership would improve even a little bit if the 28 went to CUS via Washington/Madison. The J14 always has a huge group of riders get off at Madison/Wabash. The business/commerce in the loop is really dedicated to the north and west sides, and it shows in the routes. Farther away you get from State and Washington, the less frequent bus service gets. On any given Sunday, Wash/Madison has 5 bus routes along the entire corridor, so at least 1 bus every 5-8 minutes. Adams/Jackson has 2, and one of those routes don't even run the full corridor. Any route that goes that way is doomed to have mediocre downtown ridership if that's the only part it serves.

[artthouwill]

13 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

This sounds crazy, but I bet ridership would improve even a little bit if the 28 went to CUS via Washington/Madison. The J14 always has a huge group of riders get off at Madison/Wabash. The business/commerce in the loop is really dedicated to the north and west sides, and it shows in the routes. Farther away you get from State and Washington, the less frequent bus service gets. On any given Sunday, Wash/Madison has 5 bus routes along the entire corridor, so at least 1 bus every 5-8 minutes. Adams/Jackson has 2, and one of those routes don't even run the full corridor. Any route that goes that way is doomed to have mediocre downtown ridership if that's the only part it serves.

I remember catching the 14 when the route first started.   I got in at State  and Madison when Washington and Madison were reverse flow.   The bus was already full heading for the South side.   The 6 wasn't full before Jackson.   The 14 was so new there were no roller curtain signs for the route.   That took a few months.   Like you said,  the majority of the south side ridership was north loop.