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garmon757

Bringing Back a Route and/or Segment

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Bus lanes will only work on N Michigan with prepayment. There are so many routes, that the buses end up delaying each other. 

If they do go through with bus lanes, they should be in the median to prevent conflicts with other turning vehicles. A set up like Loop Link won't work.

In the short term, leap frog stop patterns should be pursued. 

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7 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

Bus lanes will only work on N Michigan with prepayment. There are so many routes, that the buses end up delaying each other. 

If they do go through with bus lanes, they should be in the median to prevent conflicts with other turning vehicles. A set up like Loop Link won't work.

In the short term, leap frog stop patterns should be pursued. 

If lower Michigan stretched far enough I'd go Seattle style and have all the buses underground 😎😎

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19 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

More like without dedicated patrol & enforcement, they'd be effectively useless since everyone uses it to get on Norf LSD. Bus lanes on Clark probably wouldn't work that well either, only 2 buses. Dearborn, and at least SB State (5 regular service buses vs NB State's 3), however, are excellent ideas. 

After all, anything is better than the PM rush LaSalle Express crawl on Wacker, with all the buses essentially forcing their own bus lane ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

It hasn't been too bad actually whenever I've ridden the PM 136. But I will admit that the repaving work being done on LSD between Monroe and North Avenue has really mucked things up in recent weeks. I remember the Friday of that first week that work started caused traffic to back up so bad, that it took 20 mins for the bus to crawl from Upper Wacker/Columbus to the entrance ramp that LaSalle Express buses of either route usually take to enter the Drive. It was just our luck that supervisors had ended the detour up Michigan Avenue that was in place that day. The previous detour that was in place that experienced, the bus I was one breezed up Michigan by using the left lane the whole way through up to Delaware. 

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28 minutes ago, XE NewFlyer said:

155 Devon Should go west to Cumberland or should get taken over by pace after Kedzie

Demonstrate how this isn't fantasy. Ridership needed to comply with Community Guidelines, especially given prior failures by both CTA and Nortran.

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 The 143 and 148 should run both ways AM rush to PM rush and run on the weekends. In other words run in a similar pattern to the 146 and 147. I can't say this will work but i don't see how it will cause too much extra cost. as the 143 could be interlined with the Belmont+Halsted 151's and the 148 with the 22 on weekends and 146 or Devon+Clark 151's on weekdays.

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2 hours ago, XE NewFlyer said:

 The 143 and 148 should run both ways AM rush to PM rush and run on the weekends. In other words run in a similar pattern to the 146 and 147. I can't say this will work but i don't see how it will cause too much extra cost. as the 143 could be interlined with the Belmont+Halsted 151's and the 148 with the 22 on weekends and 146 or Devon+Clark 151's on weekdays.

More fantasy and redundant routes.

Instead of playing, why don't you tell us what passenger demand would be met?  Are there that many potential passengers going from Tribune Tower to the zoo at 8 a.m.? If so, they can take 151.

Seriously, there are obvious reasons why you are not employed by the CTA planning department.

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2 hours ago, XE NewFlyer said:

 The 143 and 148 should run both ways AM rush to PM rush and run on the weekends. In other words run in a similar pattern to the 146 and 147. I can't say this will work but i don't see how it will cause too much extra cost. as the 143 could be interlined with the Belmont+Halsted 151's and the 148 with the 22 on weekends and 146 or Devon+Clark 151's on weekdays.

Um as @Busjack mentioned with your idea about running 155 to Cumberland, explain to us how and why this would be needed passenger-wise and not simply ideas you're pulling up from thin air and just proposing them just for the sake of proposing them.

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5 hours ago, XE NewFlyer said:

 The 143 and 148 should run both ways AM rush to PM rush and run on the weekends. In other words run in a similar pattern to the 146 and 147. I can't say this will work but i don't see how it will cause too much extra cost. as the 143 could be interlined with the Belmont+Halsted 151's and the 148 with the 22 on weekends and 146 or Devon+Clark 151's on weekdays.

Passengers wishing to get to the areas served by 143/148 outside of rush hour can use the 

  • 36 Broadway
  • 146 Inner Drive/Michigan Express
  • 151 Sheridan
  • The Red Line (and/or connecting E-W route)
  • The Brown Line (and/or connecting E-W route)

Honestly, outside of downtown, if there is any area of the city saturated with bus service, its the section btwn Foster, Clark, Diversey & the lake.

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2 hours ago, jajuan said:

Um as @Busjack mentioned with your idea about running 155 to Cumberland, explain to us how and why this would be needed passenger-wise and not simply ideas you're pulling up from thin air and just proposing them just for the sake of proposing them.

there are passengers during rush hour who still live and work along the routes and still go downtown at a time other than rush hour. someone who lives on Barry and Sheridan can either take the 151 downtown which could take as much as 30 minutes or walk two blocks north and take 146 which would be at most 8 minutes. if you can't tell already most people would go for the 146 and those 146's get packed and the the stop that's the most crowded is Belmont and Lake shore. same thing goes for the 146 vs. 147 at Foster. The main point is to reduce crowding and to provide faster service.

Honestly what is the downside. there are so many 151's that usally come at two at a time surely some of those buses could be used on the 143 or 148

3 hours ago, Busjack said:

  Are there that many potential passengers going from Tribune Tower to the zoo at 8 a.m.? If so, they can take 151.

there actually may be. some tourists going out for the day or some kids going on a day off school. even if there was not demand there are still not in service buses going up north which some or all could go up Michigan rather than LSD and accept passengers without too much delay.

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11 minutes ago, XE NewFlyer said:

there are passengers during rush hour who still live and work along the routes and still go downtown at a time other than rush hour. someone who lives on Barry and Sheridan can either take the 151 downtown which could take as much as 30 minutes or walk two blocks north and take 146 which would be at most 8 minutes. if you can't tell already most people would go for the 146 and those 146's get packed and the the stop that's the most crowded is Belmont and Lake shore. same thing goes for the 146 vs. 147 at Foster. The main point is to reduce crowding and to provide faster service.

Honestly what is the downside. there are so many 151's that usally come at two at a time surely some of those buses could be used on the 143 or 148

there actually may be. some tourists going out for the day or some kids going on a day off school. even if there was not demand there are still not in service buses going up north which some or all could go up Michigan rather than LSD and accept passengers without too much delay.

The main point of the north side peak expresses are to get the 9 to 5 people to their jobs quicker/add capacity by splitting the zones up which would be overloaded and bogged with high dwell times since beefing up the 146, 147, 151 and red line already run every 2-3 min at rush and thus can't really add any more service to them.  That's the reason the LaSalle corridor doesn't have weekend service as it's mainly for west loop,  financial place and Wacker drive commuters.  It would be different if there was a case similar to 6 and 14 where the 20 block deviation through Hyde park on the 6 was deemed problematic enough to make Jeffery it's own route and use the 6 for mainly hyde park and end it in south shore but for these which are pretty much an 8 block express zone difference those midday/reverse peak riders are good with what they have. I doubt they'd leave that hour wait between Devon/Clark runs in the morning if the demand was that heavy

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3 hours ago, XE NewFlyer said:

there are passengers during rush hour who still live and work along the routes and still go downtown at a time other than rush hour. someone who lives on Barry and Sheridan can either take the 151 downtown which could take as much as 30 minutes or walk two blocks north and take 146 which would be at most 8 minutes. if you can't tell already most people would go for the 146 and those 146's get packed and the the stop that's the most crowded is Belmont and Lake shore. same thing goes for the 146 vs. 147 at Foster. The main point is to reduce crowding and to provide faster service.

Honestly what is the downside. there are so many 151's that usally come at two at a time surely some of those buses could be used on the 143 or 148

there actually may be. some tourists going out for the day or some kids going on a day off school. even if there was not demand there are still not in service buses going up north which some or all could go up Michigan rather than LSD and accept passengers without too much delay.

Adding on to @Sam92's point, you also have not demonstrated that the demand is even that high during the weekends. If weekend riders were feeling that hard up for extra service, they would have pressed for it. But they have not, so the routes in question should remain as they are. 

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4 hours ago, jajuan said:

Adding on to @Sam92's point, you also have not demonstrated that the demand is even that high during the weekends. If weekend riders were feeling that hard up for extra service, they would have pressed for it. But they have not, so the routes in question should remain as they are. 

And with the 143 and 148 being a bit more costly to operate than the routes they overlap and shadow,  you'd really have to have a situation where like the 6 and metra where the red line has so many issues that everyone flocks to 146, 147 and 151, drive demand to the point where even running at 2-3 minutes apart those 3 routes still can't handle the loads at which point someone will figure ok NOW might be a good time to bring more 148 hours cause we're maxed out on being able to add to 146.

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20 hours ago, XE NewFlyer said:

 The 143 and 148 should run both ways AM rush to PM rush and run on the weekends.... I can't say this will work but i don't see how it will cause too much extra cost. as the 143 could be interlined with the Belmont+Halsted 151's and the 148 with the 22 on weekends and 146 or Devon+Clark 151's on weekdays.

To take these two peak direction only routes and turn them into bidirectional, all day routes 7 days a week would constitute a huge service increase. Probably the biggest service increase ever embarked by CTA just to improve two routes. It would take more than simply interlining trips with other routes, you'd for sure need more drivers and buses than the current baseline. The cost would be astronomical and probably give the budget and finance staff ulcers.

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17 hours ago, XE NewFlyer said:

there are passengers during rush hour who still live and work along the routes and still go downtown at a time other than rush hour. someone who lives on Barry and Sheridan can either take the 151 downtown which could take as much as 30 minutes or walk two blocks north and take 146 which would be at most 8 minutes. if you can't tell already most people would go for the 146 and those 146's get packed and the the stop that's the most crowded is Belmont and Lake shore. same thing goes for the 146 vs. 147 at Foster. The main point is to reduce crowding and to provide faster service.

Thanks for providing a justification. Personally, I don't think that would do it, certainly not north of Belmont, but that's a matter of opinion.Otherwise, I tend to agree with @orionbuslover.

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I think as if the following...

  • 155 Devon to Pulaski or Pulaski/Peterson as alternating service to Kedzie
  • 112 renamed to 112 Vincennes to 135th/Western (Possibly not)
  • 111 King Drive/111th rerouted from Marshfield Plaza to 111th/Pulaski due to Target closing(Possibly not)
  • 54B extended to 95th and 383 every busy stop until 95th
  • 95 95th renamed 95 93rd/95th runs regular route until Western then travels 95th Street, California, 93rd Street, Pulaski, 95th Street, Hilton Drive, and 94th Street ending at 94th and Cicero
  • 157 Streeterville/Taylor to travel along Ogden after California to Cicero/24th Place
  • With elimination of 54A, 54 Cicero extended to either Jefferson Park Blue Line or the empty lot between Foster and Elston (will CTA have resources)
  • Eliminate 165 West 65th (this shouldn't even be discussed)
  • A new route named 64 Oak Park from Harlem Blue Line to Oak Park Blue Line (nice try)
  • 57 Laramie extend to Jefferson Park Blue Line (nice try as well)
  • 9 or X9 (doesn't matter or both) extend to Edgewater/Ashland

That's all I got and half of this probably and wouldn't happen, never.

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Not bad. I think they should rename the 6 Jackson Park instead of Jackson Park Express cause it makes local stops and because of that alone it shouldn't be called express simply because it runs express on LSD to 11th and Columbus. They should also extend the 111A to 103 stony Island and add new stops on doty road. 

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8 minutes ago, Nova's at 103rd said:

111 King Drive/111th rerouted from Marshfield Plaza to 111th/Pulaski due to Target closing(Possibly not)

You'd have to show that there are enough riders transferring to 112 to justify the duplication.

9 minutes ago, Nova's at 103rd said:

54B extended to 95th and 383 every busy stop until 95th

Similar to the previous one, how many city riders are transferring to 383? I thought you'd also have to determine a turnaround location, but I guess you answered that in the next one:

14 minutes ago, Nova's at 103rd said:

95 95th renamed 95 93rd/95th runs regular route until Western then travels 95th Street, California, 93rd Street, Pulaski, 95th Street, Hilton Drive, and 94th Street ending at 94th and Cicero

What destination is on 93rd Street that can't be adequately served by 95th? Also, 93rd isn't a through street between California and Pulaski, as there's no crossing at the tracks west of Kedzie.

22 minutes ago, Nova's at 103rd said:

will CTA have resources

No.

23 minutes ago, Nova's at 103rd said:

this shouldn't even be discussed

Then why are you posting this on a discussion forum?

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9 hours ago, Mr.cta85 said:

Not bad. I think they should rename the 6 Jackson Park instead of Jackson Park Express cause it makes local stops and because of that alone it shouldn't be called express simply because it runs express on LSD to 11th and Columbus. They should also extend the 111A to 103 stony Island and add new stops on doty road. 

If they did that with the 6, they'd have to rename a lot of routes since the amount of CTA routes that make limited stops is around 8 iirc and only two of those (X9, X49) actually have regular service.

The 111A is being extended to 103rd/Stony Island. Not sure about new stops however, seeing as it won't be serving Olive Harvey (which it might as well) and there is nothing on Doty/Woodlawn other than the Pullman Community Center (which is basically the local version of the Kroc)

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9 hours ago, Mr.cta85 said:

Not bad. I think they should rename the 6 Jackson Park instead of Jackson Park Express cause it makes local stops and because of that alone it shouldn't be called express simply because it runs express on LSD to 11th and Columbus. They should also extend the 111A to 103 stony Island and add new stops on doty road. 

The point of the majority of Express routes is that they run nonstop (express) between two distant points.  The X routes are really Limited Stop services, and once upon a time were actually called Limiteds. What doesn't make sense is having the downtown 28 not have a separate route number like X28 or 27. Especially since the downtown route has a different routing through Hyde Park.

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9 hours ago, Nova's at 103rd said:

I think as if the following...

  • 155 Devon to Pulaski or Pulaski/Peterson as alternating service to Kedzie
  • 112 renamed to 112 Vincennes to 135th/Western (Possibly not)
  • 111 King Drive/111th rerouted from Marshfield Plaza to 111th/Pulaski due to Target closing(Possibly not)
  • 54B extended to 95th and 383 every busy stop until 95th
  • 95 95th renamed 95 93rd/95th runs regular route until Western then travels 95th Street, California, 93rd Street, Pulaski, 95th Street, Hilton Drive, and 94th Street ending at 94th and Cicero
  • 157 Streeterville/Taylor to travel along Ogden after California to Cicero/24th Place
  • With elimination of 54A, 54 Cicero extended to either Jefferson Park Blue Line or the empty lot between Foster and Elston (will CTA have resources)
  • Eliminate 165 West 65th (this shouldn't even be discussed)
  • A new route named 64 Oak Park from Harlem Blue Line to Oak Park Blue Line (nice try)
  • 57 Laramie extend to Jefferson Park Blue Line (nice try as well)
  • 9 or X9 (doesn't matter or both) extend to Edgewater/Ashland

That's all I got and half of this probably and wouldn't happen, never.

  • I've always been a fan of the 53 being extended to Devon/Kedzie in the interest of connectivity. I think the terminal has space constraints however (I might be wrong)
  • Anyone who really needs that is going to take Metra or an EW route to 95th
  • Duplicative
  • Nowhere to turn the bus around and they seem to do just fine with the buses over there
  • Still nowhere to end the bus, 95th is a better route to travel and 93rd gets cut-off
  • I've always been a fan of a full-length Ogden bus route since the old 37 went to Pulaski/Cermak, but this one has been trial'd & error'd enough, CTA has determined that ridership west of California isn't enough for bus service
  • Actually in favor of the 54 going to Jeff Park since its not really close to the entrance of Montrose. This is the same thing that's always annoyed me about the 8A & the 24
  • The 165 is just alternate routings of the 63W, look at the schedule.
  • You're covered up until North. After than, not sure that area would care too much for a bus. Glad you realize
  • Glad you realize
  • Nowhere to layover (a single flyer takes up the entire block) and duplicative, anyone can take the brown line or the 22, its close enough

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18 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

The point of the majority of Express routes is that they run nonstop (express) between two distant points.  The X routes are really Limited Stop services, and once upon a time were actually called Limiteds. What doesn't make sense is having the downtown 28 not have a separate route number like X28 or 27. Especially since the downtown route has a different routing through Hyde Park.

Yeah, the "28 via Hyde Park" thing was confusing until I realized they meant Hyde Park Ave & not Hyde Park in general. I say they should just bring back the X28, but the X80, X54 & X55 all come before it, so oh well

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11 hours ago, Nova's at 103rd said:

I think as if the following...

  • 155 Devon to Pulaski or Pulaski/Peterson as alternating service to Kedzie
  • 112 renamed to 112 Vincennes to 135th/Western (Possibly not)
  • 111 King Drive/111th rerouted from Marshfield Plaza to 111th/Pulaski due to Target closing(Possibly not)
  • 54B extended to 95th and 383 every busy stop until 95th
  • 95 95th renamed 95 93rd/95th runs regular route until Western then travels 95th Street, California, 93rd Street, Pulaski, 95th Street, Hilton Drive, and 94th Street ending at 94th and Cicero
  • 157 Streeterville/Taylor to travel along Ogden after California to Cicero/24th Place
  • With elimination of 54A, 54 Cicero extended to either Jefferson Park Blue Line or the empty lot between Foster and Elston (will CTA have resources)
  • Eliminate 165 West 65th (this shouldn't even be discussed)
  • A new route named 64 Oak Park from Harlem Blue Line to Oak Park Blue Line (nice try)
  • 57 Laramie extend to Jefferson Park Blue Line (nice try as well)
  • 9 or X9 (doesn't matter or both) extend to Edgewater/Ashland

That's all I got and half of this probably and wouldn't happen, never.

Is this happening? What’s going on 

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13 hours ago, Nova's at 103rd said:

I think as if the following...

  • 112 renamed to 112 Vincennes to 135th/Western (Possibly not)
  • 111 King Drive/111th rerouted from Marshfield Plaza to 111th/Pulaski due to Target closing(Possibly not)

I think these would definitely make sense when the Red Line gets extended to 130th. Then West 111th riders would get a faster connection to the Red Line.

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