7900-series Nova LFS - Updates

[BusHunter]

As I noted many times before, with your rosters of about 1360 cars, they are storing whatever overage there is now. I've also noted that there is plenty of storage room at 54th and 61st yards (was the latter used during the Howard-Ashland summer)?

That has to be wrong, what F&F claims that the Orange line is keeping the #3200's and not even getting #5000's. Howard yard only needs about 100 cars to fill it with #5000's. What do they intend to do store brand new #5000's at 61st yard? LOL!! Then if the Orange line gets #5000's, they have 86 #3200's already and they might want to store the #2400 work cars. I don't know if they'll be retiring or not, probably not right away as they have to establish a set of 20 #2600's to do the job now. So unless they plan to store #3200's, then that's not going to happen either. What i say is going to happen is the only rational possibility.

[BusHunter]

Welcome to Cta #7925!

Good pic, at least they are getting something. So we might actually see #7907 in service this week and if there's more than just #7925, we'll see #7927. Hey garmon blowing up the picture it looks like #7929, are you positive it's #7925?

[garmon757]

Good pic, at least they are getting something. So we might actually see #7907 in service this week and if there's more than just #7925, we'll see #7927. Hey garmon blowing up the picture it looks like #7929, are you positive it's #7925?

It's indeed #7925. I saw the back of it but I decided not to take another shot of it. Speaking of #7907, I highly recommend you or anybody else to find it on the tracker because I saw it pulling out of the garage before I spotted #7925. #7927 is yet to be in service.

[sw4400]

I don't see any Novas out of 77th except for 7901 operating on 53A today. As far as 7925 arriving after a month since 7927 arrived.... if that is the only new Nova Bus on premises..... "Wow" *clap clap* One bus in over a months' time... great job, Nova Bus!!! BTW: New Flyer still runs circles around you, delivering about 5-6 buses in a weeks' time and CTA putting them on the road approx. 1-2 weeks after arrival and inspection. Both buses are driven from the factory to the CTA by hired drivers, as many have mentioned during deliveries of the 1000's, 4000's, 4300's and 4333's of seeing them on an expressway Chicago-bound.

I'll rescind the colored sarcastic text reply if there is any proof of more than just 7925 on CTA property now. Because one bus in one month's time is outrageous, IMO. Get with it, Nova Bus, if that is the case! If you're hiring former Orion workers, then you should have enough help to get these buses flowing out at least 5-6 at a time to all your customers ordering your buses on time!

[garmon757]

I don't see any Novas out of 77th except for 7901 operating on 53A today. As far as 7925 arriving after a month since 7927 arrived.... if that is the only new Nova Bus on premises..... "Wow" *clap clap* One bus in over a months' time... great job, Nova Bus!!! BTW: New Flyer still runs circles around you, delivering about 5-6 buses in a weeks' time and CTA putting them on the road approx. 1-2 weeks after arrival and inspection. Both buses are driven from the factory to the CTA by hired drivers, as many have mentioned during deliveries of the 1000's, 4000's, 4300's and 4333's of seeing them on an expressway Chicago-bound.

I'll rescind the colored sarcastic text reply if there is any proof of more than just 7925 on CTA property now. Because one bus in one month's time is outrageous, IMO. Get with it, Nova Bus, if that is the case! If you're hiring former Orion workers, then you should have enough help to get these buses flowing out at least 5-6 at a time to all your customers ordering your buses on time!

Preach!!!!

[andrethebusman]

I don't see any Novas out of 77th except for 7901 operating on 53A today. As far as 7925 arriving after a month since 7927 arrived.... if that is the only new Nova Bus on premises..... "Wow" *clap clap* One bus in over a months' time... great job, Nova Bus!!! BTW: New Flyer still runs circles around you, delivering about 5-6 buses in a weeks' time and CTA putting them on the road approx. 1-2 weeks after arrival and inspection. Both buses are driven from the factory to the CTA by hired drivers, as many have mentioned during deliveries of the 1000's, 4000's, 4300's and 4333's of seeing them on an expressway Chicago-bound.

I'll rescind the colored sarcastic text reply if there is any proof of more than just 7925 on CTA property now. Because one bus in one month's time is outrageous, IMO. Get with it, Nova Bus, if that is the case! If you're hiring former Orion workers, then you should have enough help to get these buses flowing out at least 5-6 at a time to all your customers ordering your buses on time!

Remember when the 4400-4875 RTS's were coming in? Low 4400's were among the last to be delivered, as they had the most post-production mods. This is likely what is happening here. Post-production mods are not unusual, so that higher numbers appear before lower. The lower ones exist already, but they have to be retrofitted before delivery.

[sw4400]

Remember when the 4400-4875 RTS's were coming in? Low 4400's were among the last to be delivered, as they had the most post-production mods. This is likely what is happening here. Post-production mods are not unusual, so that higher numbers appear before lower. The lower ones exist already, but they have to be retrofitted before delivery.

I'm not questioning order of delivery, andre(e.g 7915 before 7901), what bothers me here is that New Flyer, which had several changes in design with the 1000's, got the buses here about 5-6/time every week or two weeks, whatever their schedule was. And they had many changes over the course of the 1,030 that were delivered...

1000-1629 had two different Cummins ISM model engines I believe. Starting with 1305, a new style of seat of introduced into the fleet. 1000-1304 still have the old style boxy seats(some might've been retrofitted)

1630-1929 introduced carbon frames as opposed to steel frames found on 1000-1629 as well as a low emission Cummins ISL engine, and the all-too-familiar blue LED lighting on the inside which is slowly being phased out(I liked it personally, being a fan of blue)

1930-2029 introduced a new seating layout as well as a new transmission for the buses.... the Allison transmission.

So there were many changes over the course of this order, yet New Flyer got them to the CTA, who got them on the road relatively quickly. Nova Bus, on the other hand...... the jury's still out on and it doesn't look too promising given the apparent hangups at this time.

Deliveries started in May, and we have a grand total of eight(8) buses in approx. two months' time. Eight buses only? In two months' time with New Flyer delivering the 1000's, we had close to twenty(20) buses!

[jajuan]

I'm not questioning order of delivery, andre(e.g 7915 before 7901), what bothers me here is that New Flyer, which had several changes in design with the 1000's, got the buses here about 5-6/time every week or two weeks, whatever their schedule was. And they had many changes over the course of the 1,030 that were delivered...

1000-1629 had two different Cummins ISM model engines I believe. Starting with 1305, a new style of seat of introduced into the fleet. 1000-1304 still have the old style boxy seats(some might've been retrofitted)

1630-1929 introduced carbon frames as opposed to steel frames found on 1000-1629 as well as a low emission Cummins ISL engine, and the all-too-familiar blue LED lighting on the inside which is slowly being phased out(I liked it personally, being a fan of blue)

1930-2029 introduced a new seating layout as well as a new transmission for the buses.... the Allison transmission.

So there were many changes over the course of this order, yet New Flyer got them to the CTA, who got them on the road relatively quickly. Nova Bus, on the other hand...... the jury's still out on and it doesn't look too promising given the apparent hangups at this time.

Deliveries started in May, and we have a grand total of eight(8) buses in approx. two months' time. Eight buses only? In two months' time with New Flyer delivering the 1000's, we had close to twenty(20) buses!

Would you rather they just rush them out and somebody got injured because engineers and inspectors missed or overlooked a potentially dangerous flaw that should have been fixed or because they didn't retrofit any possible design modifications that Andre alluded to properly which depending on the modification could present a situation potentially as dangerous as not catching a serious flaw, simply because a bunch of bus fans are too darn impatient to let these folks do their jobs and make sure these buses are as safe as possible before putting them out on the road? For all you or anyone else know, there could be modifications that are much more involved than what we saw in the New Flyer 1000s that are holding things up.

[BusHunter]

And they were supposed to deliver in February!! They should have had 100 buses on the road by now. Maybe CTA is spooked by the brakes being involved in the NABI bus mishap and a few defects from Bombardier. I did a search of Nova bus recalls and guess what? Nova is known for brake recalls, the 2012 model has a problem I believe with the spring valves on the brakes and I believe other years models were affected. I pulled up about 2-3 different year's models so maybe I'm not offbase when I'm concerned about the brakes after all.

[sw4400]

Would you rather they just rush them out and somebody got injured because engineers and inspectors missed or overlooked a potentially dangerous flaw that should have been fixed or because they didn't retrofit any possible design modifications that Andre alluded to properly which depending on the modification could present a situation potentially as dangerous as not catching a serious flaw, simply because a bunch of bus fans are too darn impatient to let these folks do their jobs and make sure these buses are as safe as possible before putting them out on the road? For all you or anyone else know, there could be modifications that are much more involved than what we saw in the New Flyer 1000s that are holding things up.

Absolutely not! But if there is a design flaw, why no info about it? When Bombardier had to be pulled from the rails twice for defects, the public knew. We all know about NABI's big pull-off from service and why. And if there is a serious issue, why are buses like 7900, 7901, 7904, 7910 and 7920 still in service out of 77th, rather than being pulled and put back at South Shops awaiting whatever is needed to be done to get the problems corrected? Would you want a bus with a potential issue like BusHunter pointed out(driver pumping brakes while stopping with passengers onboard) on the road servicing a route?

And they were supposed to deliver in February!! They should have had 100 buses on the road by now. Maybe CTA is spooked by the brakes being involved in the NABI bus mishap and a few defects from Bombardier. I did a search of Nova bus recalls and guess what? Nova is known for brake recalls, the 2012 model has a problem I believe with the spring valves on the brakes and I believe other years models were affected. I pulled up about 2-3 different year's models so maybe I'm not offbase when I'm concerned about the brakes after all.

CTA got 7900 in February and according to the Press Release start receiving in May(we didn't get anything but 7900 until June). If there is a brake issue, fine. Question is why not pull all the 7900's from service until the problem is rectified? 77th would just be short five buses, which isn't a great lot, IMO. In the meanwhile, you got Bus Operators pumping brakes and brakes grinding on buses that are carrying passengers! Where's the CTA's logic there? Pull them from service and road test them empty with just a driver!

[jajuan]

And they were supposed to deliver in February!! They should have had 100 buses on the road by now. Maybe CTA is spooked by the brakes being involved in the NABI bus mishap and a few defects from Bombardier. I did a search of Nova bus recalls and guess what? Nova is known for brake recalls, the 2012 model has a problem I believe with the spring valves on the brakes and I believe other years models were affected. I pulled up about 2-3 different year's models so maybe I'm not offbase when I'm concerned about the brakes after all.

All the more reason for them not to be in a rush to get them on the street because local Chicago bus fans are impatient. I'd rather see them be months late getting them out because they're making sure the buses are safe than rushing to get them out on time as given by a press release that didn't necessarily have serious defects considered.

[jajuan]

Absolutely not! But if there is a design flaw, why no info about it? When Bombardier had to be pulled from the rails twice for defects, the public knew. We all know about NABI's big pull-off from service and why. And if there is a serious issue, why are buses like 7900, 7901, 7904, 7910 and 7920 still in service out of 77th, rather than being pulled and put back at South Shops awaiting whatever is needed to be done to get the problems corrected? Would you want a bus with a potential issue like BusHunter pointed out(driver pumping brakes while stopping with passengers onboard) on the road servicing a route?

CTA got 7900 in February and according to the Press Release start receiving in May(we didn't get anything but 7900 until June). If there is a brake issue, fine. Question is why not pull all the 7900's from service until the problem is rectified? 77th would just be short five buses, which isn't a great lot, IMO. In the meanwhile, you got Bus Operators pumping brakes and brakes grinding on buses that are carrying passengers! Where's the CTA's logic there? Pull them from service and road test them empty with just a driver!

And what makes you think Nova didn't tell CTA about any brake defects?

[sw4400]

And what makes you think Nova didn't tell CTA about any brake defects?

They may have, but why didn't CTA pull them and mention in a Press Release? They did so with the Bombardier railcars both times for their defects. More importantly, why are they still on the road with brake defects? BusHunter just mentioned a few days ago about the Bus Operator of 7920 pumping the brakes and holding them down and hearing a grinding sound. Yet, 7901 was out on 53A today, and 7900, 7904, 7910 and 7920 are at 77th available for service(if they aren't out on the streets as this is posted).

That's the main point I'm driving at now. If defects are keeping the buses from coming in, fine. But we just got 7925 from garmon's photo. Is the brake issue rectified starting with it or do we have another defective bus sitting at South Shops?

[garmon757]

They may have, but why didn't CTA pull them and mention in a Press Release? They did so with the Bombardier railcars both times for their defects. More importantly, why are they still on the road with brake defects? BusHunter just mentioned a few days ago about the Bus Operator of 7920 pumping the brakes and holding them down and hearing a grinding sound. Yet, 7901 was out on 53A today, and 7900, 7904, 7910 and 7920 are at 77th available for service(if they aren't out on the streets as this is posted).

That's the main point I'm driving at now. If defects are keeping the buses from coming in, fine. But we just got 7925 from garmon's photo. Is the brake issue rectified starting with it or do we have another defective bus sitting at South Shops?

Keep in mind that #7925 does not have it's license plates at all.

[sw4400]

Keep in mind that #7925 does not have it's license plates at all.

It'll get them in the next week or two, but it may also have the brake defect that Nova Bus, if aware of, should be rectifying at Plattsburgh before shipment. If they're not, then their own inspectors up there are turning a blind eye to the problem. I'm sure each bus off the assembly line goes through some short course on-site to test it for defects in main components like the brakes for example. If the brakes were grabbing(7901) and later the Operator was pumping the brakes and holding them and they were grinding(7920-both mentioned by BusHunter here and here), then obviously Nova Bus inspectors missed a very serious safety issue here or they chose to be ignorant to the fact and just wanted to get the vehicles out and let CTA deal with the brake defects on their own. Vehicles don't just leave the plant after being built, the inspectors need to go over them and make sure potential defects like this are solved before an incident occurs where passengers and operators get hurt or killed. NABI really dropped the ball in 2003 when they shipped out the 60-LFW buses. Those should've been inspected thoroughly before being shipped from Anniston, AL. If the inspectors then did their jobs, 7500-7725 would've probably still been on the road until 2015-2016 at least. We might not have needed all of the New Flyer DE60LF's(maybe just 4000-4149) and definitely not needed 4300-4399 until the retirements of the NABI's would've begun.

[BusHunter]

#7907's on the #24

[jajuan]

It'll get them in the next week or two, but it may also have the brake defect that Nova Bus, if aware of, should be rectifying at Plattsburgh before shipment. If they're not, then their own inspectors up there are turning a blind eye to the problem. I'm sure each bus off the assembly line goes through some short course on-site to test it for defects in main components like the brakes for example. If the brakes were grabbing(7901) and later the Operator was pumping the brakes and holding them and they were grinding(7920-both mentioned by BusHunter here and here), then obviously Nova Bus inspectors missed a very serious safety issue here or they chose to be ignorant to the fact and just wanted to get the vehicles out and let CTA deal with the brake defects on their own. Vehicles don't just leave the plant after being built, the inspectors need to go over them and make sure potential defects like this are solved before an incident occurs where passengers and operators get hurt or killed. NABI really dropped the ball in 2003 when they shipped out the 60-LFW buses. Those should've been inspected thoroughly before being shipped from Anniston, AL. If the inspectors then did their jobs, 7500-7725 would've probably still been on the road until 2015-2016 at least. We might not have needed all of the New Flyer DE60LF's(maybe just 4000-4149) and definitely not needed 4300-4399 until the retirements of the NABI's would've begun.

Just be glad that CTA inspectors are doing their jobs apparently from it taking longer for the buses to get on the road. Inspections of new buses aren't a one step process as evidenced by the fact that there are BOTH the manufacturers' inspectors AND the individual TA's inspectors. And I see I have to point out yet again that from an engineering point of view, a bus is more complicated machine that some of us choose to remember. Each individual bus has thousands, maybe millions, of parts to tend to. And as such, an issue with brakes might not always show up on site at the plant but does manage to appear after that vehicle has been delivered believe it or not. So lets be careful with speed at which any of us ASSUME someone didn't do their job.

[Kimball401]

#7907's on the #24

Well that's good mileage

[BusHunter]

I just filmed it pictures tonight.

[BusHunter]

Here you go, pictures of #7907.

[ajm522]

A 7900 is on an off rush hour run, 7910 is currently on #8 going south.

[sw4400]

Here you go, pictures of #7907.

Maiden voyage day, I guess. Both my roster and yours doesn't show it at 77th yet.

[BusMaster]

Maybe there testing it on a full run to see how the brakes react for a long distance of time

[BusHunter]

Maiden voyage day, I guess. Both my roster and yours doesn't show it at 77th yet.

I added it to my delivery list page 22 I'll update the roster now.

[sw4400]

Novas are back in hiding again. Checked all posted routes out of 77th and no 7900's show up. One or two show up one day, then none show up another.... if there is an issue, why keep putting them into spotty service? Pull them, rectify the problem and then return them to service! If I was a safety inspector, CTA wouldn't be able to put the 7900's out if they had brake issues for revenue service... I'd blackball all of them until they take them off-line, fix the problem, road test them "Not In Service" and then have them inspected again before they are allowed to return to service...

Bottom line, safety should be the number one priority, but I think the CTA doesn't care about safety if they're putting out buses with brake issues on an almost daily basis thinking "The problem will just go away on it's own."