5000-series - Updates

[Busjack]

On the subject of train length, can't the current Yellow Line layout handle 4-car trains at all stops?

Maybe it can handle a 4 car train at the platforms, but I doubt at the switchback.

Does this clarify what I'm saying a bit more?

No. The ambiguity is what is meant by " the Purple Line Local makes all stops to Linden" in that the only existing Purple Line local is the Howard-Linden shuttle. Are you talking about that,* or about some Red Line clone that makes all local stops between, say Belmont to Linden? Neither interpretation makes practical sense; nor would mixing in 4 car trains in the stretch from the Loop to Belmont (the supposed rationale for the Purple Line Express stopping there being that the Brown Line itself did not provide enough capacity in Lakeview).

BTW, the only relevance to this thread was the observation of the 403/703 Brownage, and whether the 5000s test run will be on it. The rationale for that run was previously exhaustively discussed.

____________

*Update: Further reflection leads me to the to this conclusion, but it has the fallacy (given relative frequencies) of two or three Red Line trains plus a Purple Express dumping off two carloads of passengers to transfer to Skokie, vs. two to four Red Line trains and your express dumping off 6 light carloads of passengers to Evanston.

[sw4400]

Maybe it can handle a 4 car train at the platforms, but I doubt at the switchback.

No. The ambiguity is what is meant by " the Purple Line Local makes all stops to Linden" in that the only existing Purple Line local is the Howard-Linden shuttle. Are you talking about that

Yes. Under the Chicago-L.org site, it mentions two Purple Line routes.... The Evanston Shuttle which goes between Linden to Howard. The one I was saying could be changed is the Evanston Express, which currently goes between Linden to Clark/Lake. I was thinking this route could shuttle people from Clark/Lake to Howard, then instead of going to Linden, it switches to the Yellow Line tracks all the way to Skokie. If someone wants to go to say Linden, they need to transfer at Howard to a Purple Line Shuttle. Maybe they can call the new Purple Line Express the Skokie Express. Those at Linden or any stops before Howard who want to come into the city need to transfer from Howard to a Purple Express or Red Line train.

[ChicagoNova]

Yes. Under the Chicago-L.org site, it mentions two Purple Line routes.... The Evanston Shuttle which goes between Linden to Howard. The one I was saying could be changed is the Evanston Express, which currently goes between Linden to Clark/Lake. I was thinking this route could shuttle people from Clark/Lake to Howard, then instead of going to Linden, it switches to the Yellow Line tracks all the way to Skokie. If someone wants to go to say Linden, they need to transfer at Howard to a Purple Line Shuttle. Maybe they can call the new Purple Line Express the Skokie Express. Those at Linden or any stops before Howard who want to come into the city need to transfer from Howard to a Purple Express or Red Line train.

I was thinking, if CTA could rehab all stations on the Purple Line Shuttle between Howard & Linden to make all stations long enough to accommodate 8 cars like they did for the Brown Line, then what if CTA eliminated the Purple Line, extended the Red Line to operate to Linden, & had the Yellow Line operate between Skokie & Downtown?

[greenstreet]

My question is does the Orange Line run the 5000s on the weekend for testing?

Yes, here is the schedule

Saturday

Scheduled Departure Time from Midway

0600

0731

0900

1100

1230

1400

1530

1700

1900

2030

Scheduled Departure Time from Clark/Lake

0629

0801+

0930+

1130+

1300+

1430+

1600+

1730+

1930

2100

Sunday

Scheduled Departure Time from Midway

0602

0732

0901

1101

1237

1401

1530

1700

1900

2038

Scheduled Departure Time from Clark Lake

0631

0802

0931+

1131+

1307+

1431+

1600+

1730+

1930

2107

[rmadisonwi]

I was thinking, if CTA could rehab all stations on the Purple Line Shuttle between Howard & Linden to make all stations long enough to accommodate 8 cars like they did for the Brown Line, then what if CTA eliminated the Purple Line, extended the Red Line to operate to Linden, & had the Yellow Line operate between Skokie & Downtown?

You'd still have to deal with the Yellow Line not being able to accommodate a longer train (I think you might be able to accommodate a four-car train, but certainly not six). Not only is the Skokie (Dempster) station platform not long enough, but the tail track really can't be extended without extending onto Dempster Street.

[ChicagoNova]

You'd still have to deal with the Yellow Line not being able to accommodate a longer train (I think you might be able to accommodate a four-car train, but certainly not six). Not only is the Skokie (Dempster) station platform not long enough, but the tail track really can't be extended without extending onto Dempster Street.

You may have to open a new longer station and berth ont the other side of Dempster street if possible.

[Guest DevalDragon]

WOW - This is helpful. Is the Saturday schedule the same during the week?

Yes, here is the schedule

[busfan2847]

Maybe it can handle a 4 car train at the platforms, but I doubt at the switchback.

The switchback can handle a four car train, just! Trip I went on as part of the CERA celebrations in September 2008 used 2895+2896+2897+2898.

Seen below in the switchback.

[greenstreet]

WOW - This is helpful. Is the Saturday schedule the same during the week?

Here's the weekday schedule until Nov. 19

Scheduled Departure Time from Midway

0603

0730

0900

1100

1236

1410

1545

1730

1935

2111

Scheduled Departure Time from Clark/Lake

0633

0802

0930+

1130+

1306+

1440+

1615+

1802

2005

2141

[ChicagoNova]

Here's the weekday schedule until Nov. 19

Scheduled Departure Time from Midway

0603

0730

0900

1100

1236

1410

1545

1730

1935

2111

Scheduled Departure Time from Clark/Lake

0633

0802

0930+

1130+

1306+

1440+

1615+

1802

2005

2141

So where will the 5000 Series Rail Cars go next after this?

[Mr.cta85]

So where will the 5000 Series Rail Cars go next after this?

My guess is they will probably go to the Brown Line after they're done testing on the Orange Line.

[ArcherRider]

I saw the press release and starting Tuesday morning instead Monday morning it go to start testing on the Brown Line.

[Busjack]

I saw the press release and starting Tuesday morning instead Monday morning it go to start testing on the Brown Line.

Link is here.

Since they mention "The 10 prototype rail cars are being tested to determine how they perform when operating in the conditions that CTA's rail fleet is subjected to throughout the year," I wonder if some will go back to lines on which they have already been tested to see if they can cope with winter conditions, or if the Brown, Yellow, Purple, and Pink are enough to test that.

[BusHunter]

Link is here.

Since they mention "The 10 prototype rail cars are being tested to determine how they perform when operating in the conditions that CTA's rail fleet is subjected to throughout the year," I wonder if some will go back to lines on which they have already been tested to see if they can cope with winter conditions, or if the Brown, Yellow, Purple, and Pink are enough to test that.

I was thinking about that when they were on the blue line. If they indeed intend to delivery a high quantity of cars on the blue, it would be good to test there in the snow. With all the new systems there's bound to be some issue that will pop up. That's better than accepting cars and discover we have a problem.

[artthouwill]

Link is here.

Since they mention "The 10 prototype rail cars are being tested to determine how they perform when operating in the conditions that CTA's rail fleet is subjected to throughout the year," I wonder if some will go back to lines on which they have already been tested to see if they can cope with winter conditions, or if the Brown, Yellow, Purple, and Pink are enough to test that.

This is why I was somewhat surprised that the Blue Line was 2nd in testing instead of last. Since that is the line that is probably first to get the new cars (to replace the 2200s already there), it seemed to make sense that if the testing ended there, CTA would already have cars in place when ready to take actual delivery of the rest. If Blue Line had been last, it would've put the cars there right in the middle of winter to test along the expressway median portions of the route to see how they would respond to possibly heavy amounts of snow. Remember back in the winter of 98-99 when the Blue Line was shut down northwest of Jefferson Park because of mechanical problems with the undercarriages of the trains with the heavy snow. Although there is no guarantee we will have a brutal winter, better to find out now if we would have some similar problems as opposed to later having to shelve an entire series or shorten the commute again.

[csl3407]

This is why I was somewhat surprised that the Blue Line was 2nd in testing instead of last. Since that is the line that is probably first to get the new cars (to replace the 2200s already there), it seemed to make sense that if the testing ended there, CTA would already have cars in place when ready to take actual delivery of the rest. If Blue Line had been last, it would've put the cars there right in the middle of winter to test along the expressway median portions of the route to see how they would respond to possibly heavy amounts of snow. Remember back in the winter of 98-99 when the Blue Line was shut down northwest of Jefferson Park because of mechanical problems with the undercarriages of the trains with the heavy snow. Although there is no guarantee we will have a brutal winter, better to find out now if we would have some similar problems as opposed to later having to shelve an entire series or shorten the commute again.

I wouldn't be surprised if the schedule is such that the CTA intends to test the 5000-series cars on the Blue Line in both the summer AND winter seasons. They have long said that the new cars would be tested through full summer and winter seasons -- which is why I didn't expect to see an initial order placed this year. I expect that sometime in January or February, we will see the 5000s back on the Blue Line - even if it is only for a week or so.

[sw4400]

I wouldn't be surprised if the schedule is such that the CTA intends to test the 5000-series cars on the Blue Line in both the summer AND winter seasons. They have long said that the new cars would be tested through full summer and winter seasons -- which is why I didn't expect to see an initial order placed this year. I expect that sometime in January or February, we will see the 5000s back on the Blue Line - even if it is only for a week or so.

I think the testing on the Blue Line is done. the 5000's spent close to three months there(Aug 2-Oct 24). Regardless of line color, track is track. If they do well during the winter on say, the Purple Line(which will probably be one of the next two following the Brown Line test), they'll do just as well on the Blue Line. With regards to the large amounts of snow up against the median of the expressways, the CTA won't let 1999-2000 happen all over again, like with the 2600's. The motors are protected from snow infiltration and all railcars have snow/sleet/ice scrapers at their couplers to keep the rails clear.

[Busjack]

.... With regards to the large amounts of snow up against the median of the expressways, the CTA won't let 1999-2000 happen all over again, like with the 2600's. The motors are protected from snow infiltration and all railcars have snow/sleet/ice scrapers at their couplers to keep the rails clear.

You aren't taking into account all the salt spray. I was thinking more along the lines of 1979 than 2000, but the expressway routes demonstrate problems that the others, even though the ground level portions of the remaining lines have their own challenges.

[toppdawg12]

Is it possible that the redesign of the intake vents on the 5000s addresses the issues of snow and salt intake on the motors, as well as redesign of the motors themselves from DC traction to AC traction? If such is the case, would additional testing on the Blue Line be necessary?

[teck22]

does anyone have the schedule for the brown line yet?

[Northsider]

does anyone have the schedule for the brown line yet?

I'd like this as well. I keep seeing it going the other way, but not my direction. :-[

[teck22]

I'd like this as well. I keep seeing it going the other way, but not my direction. :-[

Haha second that as I catch in several times a week when i don't feel like driving

[greenstreet]

does anyone have the schedule for the brown line yet?

Weekday schedule until Friday Dec.10:

From Kimball

0600

0743

0930

1148

1330

1515

1653

1830

2037

2218

From Adams/Wabash

0637

0824

1010

1228

1410

1554

1733

1907

2115

2255

Weekdays, Dec. 13-23

From Kimball

0610

0751

0937

1148

1330

1507

1649

1830

2040

2224

From Adams/Wabash

0648

0832

1017

1228

1410

1546

1729

1908

2117

2301

[Northsider]

^^ Thanks for this! I'll try and catch one today. :-]

[BusHunter]

I wouldn't be surprised if the schedule is such that the CTA intends to test the 5000-series cars on the Blue Line in both the summer AND winter seasons. They have long said that the new cars would be tested through full summer and winter seasons -- which is why I didn't expect to see an initial order placed this year. I expect that sometime in January or February, we will see the 5000s back on the Blue Line - even if it is only for a week or so.

If they did intend to return those to the blue line in heavy snow/cold conditions they may have the chance to do that when they go to the yellow line. 8 cars would be free at that time. They could run one final test period coinciding with the yellow line test. If they pass those tests then the delivery could begin around Feb/March. I don't know if it's a coincidence but the pink line only uses four cars also. That may be why they didn't go there yet. There trying to knock out these lines with the biggest demand for cars.