5000-series - Updates

[BusHunter]

Yessir!

After saying that I remembered that that wouldn't be too out of the ordinary if they did 6 cars to purple/red. So #5473-76 must be around Howard yard then. If they did another 4 cars this week off the flatbed to skokie that should put them in the area of #5483-84. I saw about 4 to 6 single cars this week up at Skokie and counted about 10 total, so if they delivered 6 to the line they would have 4 left plus any that they delivered in the last two days. I wonder with all these new #5000's on the purple (now 26 cars) have they started storing a few at Linden yard?

[BusHunter]

Yeah I know. I feel bad for the Northwest Side. Why do they save it for last to get new trains and buses?

You just get used to it. In all fairness, they should really get a whole fg garage of #7900's, but we know that's not going to happen. Seems everyone is worried about the south side. I was watching the press conference on youtube of Pace buses going to Brookfield Zoo and they mentioned the bus goes to 95/Dan Ryan about 6 times. One speaker did say the bus was going to Cicero, but no one even mentioned it was going to Forest Park Green or Blue line. They even brought a political rep from the 95th area district.

BTW, I almost fell in the floor, #6512 has updated seat inserts, not the old worn out seat is worn down to the slimy rubber backing. (that I complain about) That must be the only one like that.

[garmon757]

After saying that I remembered that that wouldn't be too out of the ordinary if they did 6 cars to purple/red. So #5473-76 must be around Howard yard then. If they did another 4 cars this week off the flatbed to skokie that should put them in the area of #5483-84. I saw about 4 to 6 single cars this week up at Skokie and counted about 10 total, so if they delivered 6 to the line they would have 4 left plus any that they delivered in the last two days. I wonder with all these new #5000's on the purple (now 26 cars) have they started storing a few at Linden yard?

I don't see why not. It's been a increase of 5000 sets on the Purple Line as of lately. I've saw three sets of 5000s today and I wouldn't be surprised if it's fleet increase to at least 50 cars before the end of the year.

[BusHunter]

I don't see why not. It's been a increase of 5000 sets on the Purple Line as of lately. I've saw three sets of 5000s today and I wouldn't be surprised if it's fleet increase to at least 50 cars before the end of the year.

Yeah that should be pretty easy if they are doing 16 to 24 cars a month. They could probably do 50 cars and complete the red line by then. I think howard yard will be totally complete with #5000's by Feb cause then it's off to the orange with the last 75-100 cars, I think once all cars are here there may be a slight fleet decrease at howard yard. I remember when the Green line was 120 something cars and now since they are all #5000's they barely have 100.

[briman94]

Yeah that should be pretty easy if they are doing 16 to 24 cars a month. They could probably do 50 cars and complete the red line by then. I think howard yard will be totally complete with #5000's by Feb cause then it's off to the orange with the last 75-100 cars, I think once all cars are here there may be a slight fleet decrease at howard yard. I remember when the Green line was 120 something cars and now since they are all #5000's they barely have 100.

The orange line doesn't need new cars. The blue line does. They should put the new 5000s after the purple line onto the blue line and maybe even move some of the blue's 2600s over to orange if they still need to replace some 2400s, but the purple line should have plenty 2600s for that.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

...but I saw purple traintracker times on the Brown/Green side...

It happens.

[garmon757]

Yeah that should be pretty easy if they are doing 16 to 24 cars a month. They could probably do 50 cars and complete the red line by then. I think howard yard will be totally complete with #5000's by Feb cause then it's off to the orange with the last 75-100 cars, I think once all cars are here there may be a slight fleet decrease at howard yard. I remember when the Green line was 120 something cars and now since they are all #5000's they barely have 100.

That's because Green and Pink Lines are sharing their 5000s together. I don't know the capacity of Midway Yard but having nearly 160-200 cars including 3200s might be ok but questionable because of the Blue Line has to be in the mix getting some of the 2600s. Howard Yard can't hold 500+ 5000s. So therefore, another line has to get the rest of them after Howard and Linden Yards are completed with them being delivered. I have a feeling down this road, it's going to be hell with this fleet before and after 7000s arrive. Too much to juggle around.

[Busjack]

That's because Green and Pink Lines are sharing their 5000s together. I don't know the capacity of Midway Yard but having nearly 160-200 cars including 3200s might be ok but questionable because of the Blue Line has to be in the mix getting some of the 2600s. Howard Yard can't hold 500+ 5000s. So therefore, another line has to get the rest of them after Howard and Linden Yards are completed with them being delivered. I have a feeling down this road, it's going to be hell with this fleet before and after 7000s arrive. Too much to juggle around.

Most of this has to do what what is each yard's capacity, which isn't that clear, but there are constraints.

• On the Red Line, half the runs, and I presume half the cars, are out of 98th Yard. Remember when the South Red Line reopened, there were the reports that 98th was starting to get 5000s? I've never seen anyone (at least here) break down what's at 98th vs. what's at Howard.
• Regardless, Howard has always had the capacity to hold its share of Red, plus maybe 6 Yellow and 70 Purple.
• A certain amount of Purple cars are assigned to Linden, but, again, nobody has said what the split is between Howard and Linden, only that there are 104 cars assigned to Purple (as of last year). There is also the issue whether the existing 5000s on the Purple Line all come out of Howard, or whether consists are being made up at Linden combining Howard and Linden cars.
• Similarly, on Green, there is a split between Harlem and 63-Ashland, and the Red Line project showed that cars could still be stored at 61st.
• It appeared from the story about the welds that Pink Line shop work is being done at Harlem-Green Line. That probably indicates that the cars are being exchanged.
• Midway Yard must have a capacity of at least 160 now, or it couldn't run the Brownage.
• The Blue Line is fairly isolated, as it only is connected through the Paulina connector and then changing ends to go down the ramp. Compare that to the Brown Line,to which Ravenstons, Brownages, and others can easily run.
• 54 Yard, originally designed to be part of the Blue line, now is very under capacity.

If once can allocate cars based on these constraints any better, good luck.

[garmon757]

Most of this has to do what what is each yard's capacity, which isn't that clear, but there are constraints.

• On the Red Line, half the runs, and I presume half the cars, are out of 98th Yard. Remember when the South Red Line reopened, there were the reports that 98th was starting to get 5000s? I've never seen anyone (at least here) break down what's at 98th vs. what's at Howard.
• Regardless, Howard has always had the capacity to hold its share of Red, plus maybe 6 Yellow and 70 Purple.
• A certain amount of Purple cars are assigned to Linden, but, again, nobody has said what the split is between Howard and Linden, only that there are 104 cars assigned to Purple (as of last year). There is also the issue whether the existing 5000s on the Purple Line all come out of Howard, or whether consists are being made up at Linden combining Howard and Linden cars.
• Similarly, on Green, there is a split between Harlem and 63-Ashland, and the Red Line project showed that cars could still be stored at 61st.
• It appeared from the story about the welds that Pink Line shop work is being done at Harlem-Green Line. That probably indicates that the cars are being exchanged.
• Midway Yard must have a capacity of at least 160 now, or it couldn't run the Brownage.
• The Blue Line is fairly isolated, as it only is connected through the Paulina connector and then changing ends to go down the ramp. Compare that to the Brown Line,to which Ravenstons, Brownages, and others can easily run.
• 54 Yard, originally designed to be part of the Blue line, now is very under capacity.

If once can allocate cars based on these constraints any better, good luck.

It's very difficult to determine the allocations of the cars because of the constraints. I think 98th can hold about 120-150 but I would have to go out there to see for myself. The Pink Line shop work makes sense. Good question about the Howard-Linden split though. My concern is that whether the Linden Yard is going to get the green light to be a 5000 yard or not but we'll just have to see when to time comes. Also, it's really atrocious that 54th Yard is under capacity (making it seems like that it didn't make any sense for the Pink Line getting first dibs of the 5000s). Just for kicks, if Pink and Green Lines had 3200s then the 5000s story would be very different but interesting.

[Guest]

Yeah I know. I feel bad for the Northwest Side. Why do they save it for last to get new trains and buses?

The NW side is riding 30 year old train cars and a majority of the buses on this side of the city are old!

[artthouwill]

Now when did I say that??? As we were both once CTA employees, I would expect both of us to understand what Im trying to explain here.....Im saying with such a large railcar order that theres no reason why the Blue cant receive some of the 5000 series equipment. I believe that ALL CTA lines should be operating with some or all new cars of this order. No one line should be left out. I think many of us here can agree, both the Red and Blue Lines are the two most heavily used and longest rapid transit lines in the CTA system, I know you know that! Now Im not going to be selfish and say that the entire Blue line fleet be re equipped with new cars but it would be nice for those of us who live on the NW side be given the enjoyment and comfort of new railcars instead of continuing riding 30 year old equipment. The Blue line hasant seen new equipment since 1985!. CTA wants to continue operating 2600s on the Blue Line, Fine!... But with over 700 cars being being built, it would be nice that the residents that live on the NW side be entitled to finally ride some new equipment. Wouldn't that be fair??? But for CTA to retire the 2200s and replace them with more aged 2600 series equipment while the rest of the system gets new cars, it just seems like CTA is thumbing their noses at the residents who live on the NW side. Im sorry if I don't include the west side portion of the Blue only because those residents have new L cars serving on the Green and Pink lines.

I feel what you are saying considering the Blue Line is the only option for NW side riders. However, west siders aren't detouring away from the Blue Line to Green or Pink just to ride new cars. West siders ride the line that is closest or most convenient for them. I fully expect FG to get some 7900s.

I don't know whose lame brain idea it was to not give the Blue Line any 5000s, but I agree the Blue should get some.

[peterpyterek]

I feel what you are saying considering the Blue Line is the only option for NW side riders. However, west siders aren't detouring away from the Blue Line to Green or Pink just to ride new cars. West siders ride the line that is closest or most convenient for them. I fully expect FG to get some 7900s.

I don't know whose lame brain idea it was to not give the Blue Line any 5000s, but I agree the Blue should get some.

That's true, the West Side Blue Liners DON'T detour just for the 5000's, right?

But I still feel bad for the Blue Line not even getting any 3200's for the time being.

[4CottageGrove95th]

I don't know whose lame brain idea it was to not give the Blue Line any 5000s, but I agree the Blue should get some.

I think I'm kinda going way out on a limb by saying this, but given the fact that the 7000 prototypes are not scheduled to arrive on CTA property until sometime in 2019, I think the NW-siders may get their wish sooner than they think. What I mean is this: You're talking 5 years before the first few 7000s go into revenue service. In the meantime, the Blue line (the 2nd busiest transit line on the CTA) is stuck with 30+ year old equipment that is showing every bit of it's age mechanically and otherwise. On the other end of the spectrum, you've got two of the system's more lightly traveled lines by comparison (the Pink and the Green lines) that presently operate exclusively with 5000s. I could be wrong on this, but at some time I can honestly see CTA making car reassignments between the Blue and Pink/Green lines out of necessity. In other words 146 5000s to the Blue in exchange for 146 2600s to the Pink and Green lines because, once again, they are more lightly traveled.

Granted, the 146 5Ks would obviously not be enough to provide full coverage of the Blue line operationally; 200+ 2600s would still have to be retained on the Blue. But it would at the very least take some of the load off the 2600s reassigned to the lighter lines while at the same time giving the Blue line some newer cars. Would such a reassignment likewise be made involving the Purple and Yellow lines to give the Blue line a few more 5000s??? Who knows. After all, what I'm saying is simply hypothetical. But I honestly don't think this or some other major shift in car assignments between now and 2019 is far fetched either.

[R36BoxMotor]

Here's 5475-5476 testing at Plattsburgh on May 28:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29997762@N05/14107318328

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29997762@N05/14290634301

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29997762@N05/14290634301

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

Here's 5475-5476 testing at Plattsburgh on May 28:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29997762@N05/14107318328

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29997762@N05/14290634301

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29997762@N05/14290634301

It looks like from the second and third link the set is missing its third rail shoes, or using paddle shoes for the tests.

[artthouwill]

I think I'm kinda going way out on a limb by saying this, but given the fact that the 7000 prototypes are not scheduled to arrive on CTA property until sometime in 2019, I think the NW-siders may get their wish sooner than they think. What I mean is this: You're talking 5 years before the first few 7000s go into revenue service. In the meantime, the Blue line (the 2nd busiest transit line on the CTA) is stuck with 30+ year old equipment that is showing every bit of it's age mechanically and otherwise. On the other end of the spectrum, you've got two of the system's more lightly traveled lines by comparison (the Pink and the Green lines) that presently operate exclusively with 5000s. I could be wrong on this, but at some time I can honestly see CTA making car reassignments between the Blue and Pink/Green lines out of necessity. In other words 146 5000s to the Blue in exchange for 146 2600s to the Pink and Green lines because, once again, they are more lightly traveled.

Granted, the 146 5Ks would obviously not be enough to provide full coverage of the Blue line operationally; 200+ 2600s would still have to be retained on the Blue. But it would at the very least take some of the load off the 2600s reassigned to the lighter lines while at the same time giving the Blue line some newer cars. Would such a reassignment likewise be made involving the Purple and Yellow lines to give the Blue line a few more 5000s??? Who knows. After all, what I'm saying is simply hypothetical. But I honestly don't think this or some other major shift in car assignments between now and 2019 is far fetched either.

What you say makes sense, especially in the necessity department. And there is precedent. The 6000 series Flx buses were eventually assigned to two garages, 74th and FG, with neither garage slated to get any of the new 1000 series New Flyers being delivered at that time. While FG's Flxs kinda held on, 74th's were breaking down at such a high rate, CTA was forced to allocate some new buses there. Then when ARcher closed, 74th was sent the majority of Archer's Novas and some of the newer 1000s were swapped for some of the older ones.

We haven't seen breakdowns of the 2600s on such a high scale that moving 5000s to the Blue Line is a necessity, YET. In the meantime, rest assured that CTA is trying desperately to move the oldest 2600s off of that line. I believe some of the oldest are now on the ORange, and I believe CTA will try to get the highest numbered 2600s (31xx - 3200) off the Red and back to the Blue. In other words CTA will try to keep only 2600s on the Blue Line for as long as possible. I actually would go so far as to say that you will see 3200s on the Blue Line BEFORE you see 5000s. In that scenario, you could make the 3200s the end sets of consists and stick the 2600s in the middle of the consist (Sound Familiar?). Like I said, it would take breakdowns of mammoth proportion of the 2600s to get 5000s to the Blue Line. Besides it would be political suicide to pull these newer cars from the Pink and Green Lines.

[Mr.cta85]

That's true, the West Side Blue Liners DON'T detour just for the 5000's, right?

But I still feel bad for the Blue Line not even getting any 3200's for the time being.

I agree at least give them some 3200's

[Guest]

I feel what you are saying considering the Blue Line is the only option for NW side riders. However, west siders aren't detouring away from the Blue Line to Green or Pink just to ride new cars. West siders ride the line that is closest or most convenient for them. I fully expect FG to get some 7900s.

I don't know whose lame brain idea it was to not give the Blue Line any 5000s, but I agree the Blue should get some.

Theres no doubt in my mind politics is playing into this! Its just not believable that the second busiest rail line which also serves one of two of Chicago's major airport, doesn't recieve any new cars even with a large order such as the 5000s or even rehabbed 3200s. The CTA is obviously playing favorites here and the Blue Line and its NW side riders it serves are not on the list of "favorites"! What a shame!!! The pathetic, unfair, pigheaded and incompetent management at CTA!

[chicagopcclcar]

chicagopcclcar, on 24 Jun 2014 - 16:13, said:

Only on railfans groups like the one here!!

Most transit agency are in the business of giving their patrons travel, and not in the business of hearing railfans. Except the seating, most CTA riders don't care if they ride a 2600, 3200, or a 5000. They want only a safe, clean, an a fast trip.

In the 1990s, the CTA equipped three routes, the Yellow, the Orange, and the Brown. In 2010's, the CTA equipped the Pink, Green, Yellow, Red, and Purple. Sound's like good management to me.

I iterate.......I am so glad that no one in this group is in anyway responsible for making CTA decisions about fleet assignments. CTA has equipped seven of eight routes. Yet a number of posters here would undo this and force the CTA the maintain two stocks on several routes, both of which cannot train together. For what purpose? Does some 5000 series cars on the Blue line mean passengers are ASSURED A RIDE on 5000 cars?

I LIKE said, the CTA has equipped the Pink, Green, Yellow, Red, and Purple. The Orange and the Brown were done before. Sounds like good management to me.

People have written their reasons:... "should've been first...are in a too sad of shape....page shows that those complaints....given consideration not just some...except for the Blue get to enjoy....the most ridden lines....can't receive some...save it for last....doesn't need ---Blue line does.

Sounds more like children on a playground talking about their toys.

Note the New York experience with 1980s equipment: R42...A, J, Z; R46...A, F, R; R68-68...B, D, G, S; R32/R32...A, C; R62/R62A...1, 3, 7, S.

5 models, 13 routes, systemwide. I don't know...how many hundreds of cars. People here. writing about ONE model, ONE route. Get real.

Not one person showed any evidence that passenger are not getting real transit service. The last two events downtown, the derailment and the power cut off....what part of the two events might be traced to one model. That right, most people here don't know that the problem was in the first case.

Rather, based on the New York experience, use our 500 plus 2600 series and keep the fleet in enough in good shape and the keep the Blue line running.

In closing....I know some of you will not like what I have said. Please....no buses in your responses. I know nothing about buses, really!

[Guest]

I iterate.......I am so glad that no one in this group is in anyway responsible for making CTA decisions about fleet assignments. CTA has equipped seven of eight routes. Yet a number of posters here would undo this and force the CTA the maintain two stocks on several routes, both of which cannot train together. For what purpose? Does some 5000 series cars on the Blue line mean passengers are ASSURED A RIDE on 5000 cars?

I LIKE said, the CTA has equipped the Pink, Green, Yellow, Red, and Purple. The Orange and the Brown were done before. Sounds like good management to me.

People have written their reasons:... "should've been first...are in a too sad of shape....page shows that those complaints....given consideration not just some...except for the Blue get to enjoy....the most ridden lines....can't receive some...save it for last....doesn't need ---Blue line does.

Sounds more like children on a playground talking about their toys.

Note the New York experience with 1980s equipment: R42...A, J, Z; R46...A, F, R; R68-68...B, D, G, S; R32/R32...A, C; R62/R62A...1, 3, 7, S.

5 models, 13 routes, systemwide. I don't know...how many hundreds of cars. People here. writing about ONE model, ONE route. Get real.

Not one person showed any evidence that passenger are not getting real transit service. The last two events downtown, the derailment and the power cut off....what part of the two events might be traced to one model. That right, most people here don't know that the problem was in the first case.

Rather, based on the New York experience, use our 500 plus 2600 series and keep the fleet in enough in good shape and the keep the Blue line running.

In closing....I know some of you will not like what I have said. Please....no buses in your responses. I know nothing about buses, really!

I honestly cant believe you posted this statement!!! But thats your opinion. All I have to say is, Im very glad you are not runnning CTA!

[chicagopcclcar]

I honestly cant believe you posted this statement!!! But thats your opinion. All I have to say is, Im very glad you are not runnning CTA!

That's true!

But you don't know who I talk too. I bet you would like to be the fly on the wall.

[Busjack]

I honestly cant believe you posted this statement!!! But thats your opinion. All I have to say is, Im very glad you are not runnning CTA!

I should be running CTA, but haven't given to the Emanuel campaign fund. Also, I don't meet the statutory qualification, but neither did Huberman, Rodriguez, or (especially) Claypool.

Melissa Metzger should be running the whole system. However, with the assignment of Orion VIs, she may be working under similar theories.

[Guest]

That's true!

But you don't know who I talk too. I bet you would like to be the fly on the wall.

We have a difference in opinions, I really could care less who you talk to or what connections you have. Once again Im so glad youre not running CTA! Whatever the "fly on the wall" comment means, only you know!

[BusHunter]

We have a difference in opinions, I really could care less who you talk to or what connections you have. Once again Im so glad youre not running CTA! Whatever the "fly on the wall" comment means, only you know!

That's because he is the fly on the wall. People try to swat him away but he comes back!! Lol!! (That's actually a true statement when you think about it)

Btw, #5471-72 is now on the purple line.

[Guest]

That's because he is the fly on the wall. People try to swat him away but he comes back!! Lol!! (That's actually a true statement when you think about it)

Btw, #5471-72 is now on the purple line.

You cant fix ignorance!