What to Do With Surplus Artics

[jajuan]

On 10/13/2018 at 7:02 PM, artthouwill said:

It's possible the 49 may use an artic or two for Lane Tech school trips.

The 62 artic trip is operated by K and serves Curie High School. 

The 126 could possibly use artics serving Whitney Young High School. 

From what I've been seeing every school day on the 49, the artics seen are for both Lane Tech and Clemente. They all head north to Berwyn terminal and then deadhead down Foster and LSD to do whatever runs needed on NP's LSD routes keeping in line with everyone else's observations that many of the school tripper artic runs are interlined with LSD routes or local routes that regular see artics. 

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, jajuan said:

From what I've been seeing every school day on the 49, the artics seen are for both Lane Tech and Clemente. They all head north to Berwyn terminal and then deadhead down Foster and LSD to do whatever runs needed on NP's LSD routes keeping in line with everyone else's observations that many of the school tripper artic runs are interlined with LSD routes or local routes that regular see artics. 

They interline with 22

[Busjack]

2 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I suppose NP could theoretically put artics on the 22 and 36 and move those 40' buses to FG.  It's not going to happen.  I suppose we will know in a week or so what will actually happen. 

They are on 22, but at the moment aren't.  @maths22 tracker indicates that 14 were on 22 at 8 a.m. today.

[andrethebusman]

The pattern on 22 is kind of odd. AM pullouts are artics that pull in after the rush, replaced by 40 footers off 143-146-148. After PM rush these all pull in and are replaced by artics off 147 that are then out all evening.so there are three separate sets of equipment, am rush, midday and pm rush, and evening.

[Sam92]

20 minutes ago, andrethebusman said:

The pattern on 22 is kind of odd. AM pullouts are artics that pull in after the rush, replaced by 40 footers off 143-146-148. After PM rush these all pull in and are replaced by artics off 147 that are then out all evening.so there are three separate sets of equipment, am rush, midday and pm rush, and evening.

Sounds a bit old cause now those PM rush artics come on at 3-4 which were formerly used for 135/136 although some 147s still interline as well

[jajuan]

On 1/7/2019 at 11:49 AM, andrethebusman said:

The pattern on 22 is kind of odd. AM pullouts are artics that pull in after the rush, replaced by 40 footers off 143-146-148. After PM rush these all pull in and are replaced by artics off 147 that are then out all evening.so there are three separate sets of equipment, am rush, midday and pm rush, and evening.

They can't be from 143 since that one is assigned to Kedzie and not North Park. Maybe midday 40 footers are also coming from some of those that might be on the 151 in AM rush. But the 40 footers one the 143 weekday AM rush are from K.

[jajuan]

Speaking off the artics, all are parked system-wide including the surplus due to slick and wet conditions on LDS and the other roadways the artic routes use that likely still remain from the overnight snowstorm and the now windy conditions that might be causing blowing snow. So CTA will definitely need to rethink having 300 plus artics on hand when it comes time to replace the 4000s when part of the winter preparedness policy is that all artics get sidelined when a major snowstorm hits on the weekend. 

[XE NewFlyer]

if Artics were put on routes including but not limited to : 3, 20, 35, 36, 49, 66, 77, and 79 the cta may be able to take out some runs reducing operating costs without packed buses.

This would work well on the 49 as it has a leap frog stop pattern and extra Dwell time becomes less of a problem.

The 66 and 79 have already been tested but i'm not sure if there was a schedule change which may have caused the problem. 

[artthouwill]

32 minutes ago, XE NewFlyer said:

if Artics were put on routes including but not limited to : 3, 20, 35, 36, 49, 66, 77, and 79 the cta may be able to take out some runs reducing operating costs without packed buses.

This would work well on the 49 as it has a leap frog stop pattern and extra Dwell time becomes less of a problem.

The 66 and 79 have already been tested but i'm not sure if there was a schedule change which may have caused the problem. 

It won't.   Besides the other issues previously discussed, see jajuan's post immediately above yours.

[NewFlyerMCI]

After the artic on the 39 on saturday, we now have 4366 on the 50 on a Sunday. In April, we'll probably have an artic on the 73 

[XE NewFlyer]

On 2/1/2019 at 7:42 PM, artthouwill said:

It won't.   Besides the other issues previously discussed, see jajuan's post immediately above yours.

Ok how won't it work? jajuan's issue happens once or twice a year, on the day that it happens it might seem big but overall it's pretty minor and in addition that issue has nothing to do with what i'm saying.

[Nova's at 103rd]

On 5/27/2018 at 10:57 AM, XE NewFlyer said:

1. the 2 (via 60th street) is artic ridership worthy when ever i see a 2 its always completely packed however the 2 goes on 60th street which is very narrow so the buses might have a hard time navagating through there and passing eachother so the best option would be to send SB 2's west on 59th street

2. i'm not quite sure what the problem was with artics of the 66 and 79 so this analysis might be a bit poor but anyways these routes might do good with artics 2*,3*,4*,20*,52*,72*,74,76*,77,78*,80*,82,91,(135*,136* in the afternoon),(143*,148* In the morning)

*peak period or weekday only

1.Making 60th a one way street between Dorchester and Cottage Grove would be smart then this could be possible.

2.52,82,and 77 occasionally will run artics.As Busjack stated can Loop Link handle several artics (20,J14).The 72 during summer especially,74 I'm not to sure, 78 nope, 80 possibly during rush hour (as you *), and 91 great options but what about the south terminal of the route.When the last of 4300 series were delivered the 3 and 4 ran them during rush hour but only like 5 or 6 buses and to me that worked very well especially on Cottage Grove as it is the 3rd busiest bus route in CTA but since they started planning to extend to 115th that wouldn't work because of the tight viaduct turns. But why it stopped on Kind Drive idk.

[NewFlyerMCI]

20 hours ago, Nova's at 103rd said:

1.Making 60th a one way street between Dorchester and Cottage Grove would be smart then this could be possible.

2.52,82,and 77 occasionally will run artics.As Busjack stated can Loop Link handle several artics (20,J14).The 72 during summer especially,74 I'm not to sure, 78 nope, 80 possibly during rush hour (as you *), and 91 great options but what about the south terminal of the route.When the last of 4300 series were delivered the 3 and 4 ran them during rush hour but only like 5 or 6 buses and to me that worked very well especially on Cottage Grove as it is the 3rd busiest bus route in CTA but since they started planning to extend to 115th that wouldn't work because of the tight viaduct turns. But why it stopped on Kind Drive idk.

52, 82 & 77 w/ artics half of the time are school runs. Artics don't run on the 20. The 2, 3 & 4 stopped running artics because they got pulled from 77th garage, mostly because they weren't working out on the 79, the main route to use them.

[NewFlyerMCI]

TIL that the 50 gets artics when there is an event at the United Center. 4397 is on the 50 as I type.

[YoungBusLover]

Ahhh the days of mismanaged artics.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBKpb2OQ_Is

[NewFlyerMCI]

5 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

Ahhh the days of mismanaged artics.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBKpb2OQ_Is

I so wish the 79 and the 4 could run artics again.

Incidentally, this also reminds me of a bus route near my apartment where they have 45-60 min overnight service and they use artics on the routes. It is never more than 3-5 people on that bus. It runs outside my window, so inevitably I look, and its just an empty 60-ft traffic placeholder

[YoungBusLover]

2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I so wish the 79 and the 4 could run artics again.

Incidentally, this also reminds me of a bus route near my apartment where they have 45-60 min overnight service and they use artics on the routes. It is never more than 3-5 people on that bus. It runs outside my window, so inevitably I look, and its just an empty 60-ft traffic placeholder

Now that's something you'll never see on the south-side at 2 am unless its the UPS Express sadly ..... I wish at times there were more express runs on Ashland with artics. There's usually that one local school trip run from Kedzie that starts at Cermak and ends at 63rd. Seeing how bad first hand for the past 15+ years Ashland is already with on-going re-routes,construction zones and high volume of traffic, having 5 to 10 artics running around being delayed up to hour and a half at times would be a waste of time now that I think about it. Whatever happened to those short runs though? 95th to Archer/Orange line station? I see those runs every blue moon it seems.

[XE NewFlyer]

This problem shouldn't exist there are routes that need Aritcs but are getting none while the cta has a surplus of artics.

the only reason we know why this isn't happening is because the buses get behind schedule. here are three things the CTA can do.

1. Remove runs on heavy routes, no need to have 50+ artics on a single route even if it's something like the 79 or 77.

2. Dwell time might be increased due to the back doors delayed closing. I don't know what the cta can do other than making the doors manual because if the doors close too fast it becomes a safety issue.

3. Eliminate every other stop on effected routes.

In the end there is no "this simply won't work". This is a big problem that can be solved easily it will save the cta money and reduce their carbon footprint.

[ChicagoNova]

10 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

Ahhh the days of mismanaged artics.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBKpb2OQ_Is

& I made that video too.

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, XE NewFlyer said:

This problem shouldn't exist there are routes that need Aritcs but are getting none while the cta has a surplus of artics.

the only reason we know why this isn't happening is because the buses get behind schedule. here are three things the CTA can do.

1. Remove runs on heavy routes, no need to have 50+ artics on a single route even if it's something like the 79 or 77.

2. Dwell time might be increased due to the back doors delayed closing. I don't know what the cta can do other than making the doors manual because if the doors close too fast it becomes a safety issue.

3. Eliminate every other stop on effected routes.

In the end there is no "this simply won't work". This is a big problem that can be solved easily it will save the cta money and reduce their carbon footprint.

1.  IIRC, they did that with the 66 and 79 and there was still bunching. Happy to be wrong
2. nothing for this, since I don't know anything about it
3. This wouldn't work on E/W routes as they already stop every other block. For most N/S routes, this is something they could do now (barring rare anomalies like why 76th breaks the mold of a major street every 4 blocks, at least east of the ryan)

[Sam92]

9 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

1.  IIRC, they did that with the 66 and 79 and there was still bunching. Happy to be wrong
2. nothing for this, since I don't know anything about it
3. This wouldn't work on E/W routes as they already stop every other block. For most N/S routes, this is something they could do now (barring rare anomalies like why 76th breaks the mold of a major street every 4 blocks, at least east of the ryan)

E/W routes stop every block. Remember east to west every street is a half block. 79th started the "every 3rd bus stops at wentworth" when artics were introduced

[XE NewFlyer]

7 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

1.  IIRC, they did that with the 66 and 79 and there was still bunching. Happy to be wrong

I'm not sure if this was done on the 66 & 79 but i think there was not a schedule change. i may be wrong.

12 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

1. This wouldn't work on E/W routes as they already stop every other block. For most N/S routes, this is something they could do now (barring rare anomalies like why 76th breaks the mold of a major street every 4 blocks, at least east of the ryan)

the reason they do that is because blocks in Chicago are rectangular most of the time the long part is north to south so there are twice as many north south streets in the city as East west streets. what i was meaning to say is the effected routes should have a stop pattern of the 21 west of Cicero.

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, Sam92 said:

E/W routes stop every block. Remember east to west every street is a half block. 79th started the "every 3rd bus stops at wentworth" when artics were introduced

Didn't know it was a half block. I guess it would be more correct to say that E/W routes stop every other street, at least everything 35th & south. If i'm understanding correctly, the distance between King Dr & Eberhart is the same as the distance from 75th to 76th?

[Sam92]

22 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Didn't know it was a half block. I guess it would be more correct to say that E/W routes stop every other street, at least everything 35th & south. If i'm understanding correctly, the distance between King Dr & Eberhart is the same as the distance from 75th to 76th?

Yes. Eberhart to Vernon is a half or 75th st to 75th Pl

[XE NewFlyer]

4000 was on the 52 yesterday and is on the 52 again today. Same bus same route. Let's see what tomorrow has to offer.