Random CTA

[Busjack]

23 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I just find it interesting that they messed up the standardization of all the michigan expresses now. I agree with art in that it was never a big deal, since these were routes for locals, bar maybe the 146, but that was covered by it's destination sign. 

Amazing how they can do this, but still have -A instead of -S and -B instead of -N. And they didn't even manage to get that right, since they flipped it for Cicero for some odd reason.

You're right about inconsistency, especially since the bus signs are programmable.

They didn't need "Mich" on 146, because there was never a comparable LaSalle route.

The only two times CTA tried to standardize route names were around 1973, when they cut superfluous stuff, like 55 Garfield-55 to just Garfield and 155 Devon-Sheridan to 155 Devon; then around 1976, when they went to the Helvetica signs, gave express routes numbers, and did away with a lot of historical -A routes, such as 22A Wentworth to 24, 36A State to 29, and 111A Vincennes-111 to 112. However, they still left the As and Bs, and did not go to N and S, on such routes as 49, 52, and 53.

[jajuan]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I just find it interesting that they messed up the standardization of all the michigan expresses now. I agree with art in that it was never a big deal, since these were routes for locals, bar maybe the 146, but that was covered by it's destination sign. 

Amazing how they can do this, but still have -A instead of -S and -B instead of -N. And they didn't even manage to get that right, since they flipped it for Cicero for some odd reason.

 

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

You're right about inconsistency, especially since the bus signs are programmable.

They didn't need "Mich" on 146, because there was never a comparable LaSalle route.

The only two times CTA tried to standardize route names were around 1973, when they cut superfluous stuff, like 55 Garfield-55 to just Garfield and 155 Devon-Sheridan to 155 Devon; then around 1976, when they went to the Helvetica signs, gave express routes numbers, and did away with a lot of historical -A routes, such as 22A Wentworth to 24, 36A State to 29, and 111A Vincennes-111 to 112. However, they still left the As and Bs, and did not go to N and S, on such routes as 49, 52, and 53.

On that point about using A and B instead of N and S for the extreme end routes on different streets like 52A that continues further south beyond the main 52 route, perhaps they thought it would cause confusion because other symptoms like CUMTD down in Champaign-Urbana use S and N (as well as E and W for that matter) to denote direction of travel on a route. 1S for their 1 Yellow route, for example, would mean that given bus is operating southbound on the Yellow route. But of course the CTA has the routes 63W and 81W in the system, and those throw the obvious monkey wrench in that thought.

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I just find it interesting that they messed up the standardization of all the michigan expresses now. I agree with art in that it was never a big deal, since these were routes for locals, bar maybe the 146, but that was covered by it's destination sign. 

Amazing how they can do this, but still have -A instead of -S and -B instead of -N. And they didn't even manage to get that right, since they flipped it for Cicero for some odd reason.

There once was a 90N  North Harlem, but that was eliminated.  Thus the only N route that could be used is changing the 49B to the 49N.  However CTA made the decision to designate all of their owl routes as N routes with the N in front of the route number.  Will people be able to differentiate an N49 from a 49N?  The routes would overlap for 3/4 mile.  Unless there's a route deviation for the owl service (like the N9) there's no need for some of the routes to have an N designation like N20, N22, N34 N49, N53,N55, N63,N77, N79 N81, and N87. I would keep N4, N5, and N66.  Honestly, I'd rather see the N5 as two interlined routes 71 and 95 with or without an N designation.

As for the 146, you're right that it didn't need the Michigan designation to begin with.  When the 146 was a Sheridan Express,  it didn't have a Michigan designation.   The 136 was the LaSalle counterpart.   When the 146 became the Marine/Michigan Express,  it still had no LaSalle counterpart    i don't know if CTA was planning one or if they felt Marine was too short of a street (1 1/2 miles) to warrant its own street name so to match the 135 and 145, CTA paired the 136 as LaSalle and 146 as Michigan.  It wasn't done this way on Sheridan Road when they were a true pair so why when the route became Marine?  I guess 146 Marine Dr Express was too short a name.   Then to make matters worse, the 146 ( and 144) were rerouted to run along State in both directions south of Wacker.  So the 147 not named Michigan Ave has a longer run on Michigan Ave in both directions than the Michigan designated routes.  

 

I guess some old habits die hard.

At least CTA dies have E and W designations.

[Busjack]

27 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

When the 146 became the Marine/Michigan Express

There was a justification then, because Marine Drive was served by some 156 buses, so, in effect, the route was changed from LaSalle to Michigan. Of course, it could be argued that 146 Inner Drive Express was a new route, when Marine Dr. was split off to 144 (now 148) on some trips, as you noted.

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

There once was a 90N  North Harlem, but that was eliminated.  Thus the only N route that could be used is changing the 49B to the 49N.  However CTA made the decision to designate all of their owl routes as N routes with the N in front of the route number.  Will people be able to differentiate an N49 from a 49N?  The routes would overlap for 3/4 mile.  Unless there's a route deviation for the owl service (like the N9) there's no need for some of the routes to have an N designation like N20, N22, N34 N49, N53,N55, N63,N77, N79 N81, and N87. I would keep N4, N5, and N66.  Honestly, I'd rather see the N5 as two interlined routes 71 and 95 with or without an N designation.

No need for it on the 9 either. Any Nite Owl services can be shown in blue like the usually are, without the prefix, it's outlined in the legend what that service means

Your interlined 95/71 would be too hard to accurately depict on the map, especially considering significant portions of both routes aren't covered under Nite Owl service

[artthouwill]

8 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

No need for it on the 9 either. Any Nite Owl services can be shown in blue like the usually are, without the prefix, it's outlined in the legend what that service means

Your interlined 95/71 would be too hard to accurately depict on the map, especially considering significant portions of both routes aren't covered under Nite Owl service

I would have to adjust the route so that the owl service runs along 71st instead of 69th, 67th, and Jeffery for that to work.  The current N5 runs the eastern portion of the 67, the Jeffery and 75th portions are historical holdover from the owl routing of the old 27 South Deering.  Back in the day when the 27 ran down Stony Island between 63rd and 73rd, it ran 73rd to Exchange and Exchange to Commercial.   The owl route used Jeffery between Marquette and 73rd.  When the 27 was rerouted to South Shore Drive between 67th and 83rd, the owl service was rerouted to 75th between Jeffery and South Shore. 

[Busjack]

9 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Your interlined 95/71 would be too hard to accurately depict on the map, especially considering significant portions of both routes aren't covered under Nite Owl service

The interlined  something (N5, 67 or 71) and 95, each to 92nd St. makes more sense than the current route, especially since 95E and 95W combined, and BusTracker shows that at least the first trip is a 95 from Damen to 69/Red Line. There could be a footnote on each schedule at 92nd and Commercial that it continues as the other route.

After Pace split Route 411 in this manner into 410 and 411, I don't see any point to official routes that loop back without changing signs. N5 is sort of like that, as it doesn't go directly between  69/Ryan and 95/Ryan. The old CTA 127, and current Pace 354 (Harvey TC Clockwise or Counterclockwise) are equally ridiculous. One should be 354 147th to Cicero-167 and the other should be 351 167th to Cicero.

On @artthouwill's point, the real question is where the passenger demand is at night. By now, historical routings should be irrelevant.

 

[jajuan]

10 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I would have to adjust the route so that the owl service runs along 71st instead of 69th, 67th, and Jeffery for that to work.  The current N5 runs the eastern portion of the 67, the Jeffery and 75th portions are historical holdover from the owl routing of the old 27 South Deering.  Back in the day when the 27 ran down Stony Island between 63rd and 73rd, it ran 73rd to Exchange and Exchange to Commercial.   The owl route used Jeffery between Marquette and 73rd.  When the 27 was rerouted to South Shore Drive between 67th and 83rd, the owl service was rerouted to 75th between Jeffery and South Shore. 

The 127's final route structure before its elimination is one of the signs that CTA didn't know what to do with it after they cut it from operating to McCormick Place. They tried simply having it start and end at Michigan and Balbo. That changed to them running it up to Adler Planetarium following the 146's prior route of Michigan, Balbo and Columbus to McFetridge and Solidarity. It then became that useless Roosevelt/Madison Circulator, which no one rode because they still opted to ride the main Madison and Roosevelt routes over the circulator. About the only real use it had was the interline it had with the 14 when it was still S Lake Shore Express and peak direction only rush period service.

[artthouwill]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

The interlined  something (N5, 67 or 71) and 95, each to 92nd St. makes more sense than the current route, especially since 95E and 95W combined, and BusTracker shows that at least the first trip is a 95 from Damen to 69/Red Line. There could be a footnote on each schedule at 92nd and Commercial that it continues as the other route.

After Pace split Route 411 in this manner into 410 and 411, I don't see any point to official routes that loop back without changing signs. N5 is sort of like that, as it doesn't go directly between  69/Ryan and 95/Ryan. The old CTA 127, and current Pace 354 (Harvey TC Clockwise or Counterclockwise) are equally ridiculous. One should be 354 147th to Cicero-167 and the other should be 351 167th to Cicero.

On @artthouwill's point, the real question is where the passenger demand is at night. By now, historical routings should be irrelevant.

 

This brings up another interesting thing.  Pace 305 was split into two routes so that EB 305 officially ends at Cicero Blue Line but continues as a SB 316 to Morton College.  I could be wrong but I don't think passengers boarding a 305 have to pay another fare on the interlined 316 

I bring that up because sometimes I take a 272 that interlines with the 574.  Some drivers make me tap my Ventra card again and others dont for the 574 portion of the ride.  I know that if I take a NW based 272 I would have to get off at Hawthorne Mills and transfer to a 574, but a North based 272 interlines with the 574.  I WHAT exactly is the policy for riding routes that interline?  Does Pace or CTA even have a policy?

Fortunately for me,  the 574 is counted either as a 2nd ride (which only costs a quarter) or a last ride which costs nothing.  Either way it doesn't affect my cost for these particular trips.  However any deviation could cost an extra $2.00 if I get the wrong ooerator.operator.

I guess an interesting CTA scenario would be the interline that occurs on the south end of the 111 and the 115.   These were once one route..  Would CTA make those riding through the interline tap again?

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

I guess an interesting CTA scenario would be the interline that occurs on the south end of the 111 and the 115.   These were once one route..  Would CTA make those riding through the interline tap again?

I think the distinction is that 111 and 115 both end at Marshfield Plaza, as opposed to the old 111 that theoretically went all around before it ended at 112-Corliss. I suppose one could take the long way around from 115-Michigan to 111-Morgan, but it could be argued that's 2 routes. The schedules don't indicate that they are interlined, while the 410/411 schedules do.

I was proposing this only to eliminate confusing headsigns.

[Shannoncvpi]

When I be doong the 7 This is why I be blowing the horn when I catch officers parking in the bus stop zone when they pull up to park there as I am about to pick up or drop off people I be having peopke in wheelchairs with walkers & canes getting on & their law breaking ass be in the way 

[artthouwill]

23 minutes ago, Shannoncvpi said:

When I be doong the 7 This is why I be blowing the horn when I catch officers parking in the bus stop zone when they pull up to park there as I am about to pick up or drop off people I be having peopke in wheelchairs with walkers & canes getting on & their law breaking ass be in the way 

But the bus isn't running today  so need to stress.  Nobody waiting for the bus today.  Chill!

[Shannoncvpi]

34 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

But the bus isn't running today  so need to stress.  Nobody waiting for the bus today.  Chill!

No I'm saying when the 7 do be running they still be parking here & it pisses me off when I be having people with wheelchairs walkers & canes there & they be struggling to get over to the bus cause these gangmembers be parking here

[jajuan]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

But the bus isn't running today  so need to stress.  Nobody waiting for the bus today.  Chill!

 

1 hour ago, Shannoncvpi said:

No I'm saying when the 7 do be running they still be parking here & it pisses me off when I be having people with wheelchairs walkers & canes there & they be struggling to get over to the bus cause these gangmembers be parking here

His point is they do this even when the bus is in service. And he has a valid point that if it were civilians doing this, they'd be getting tickets whether the bus is running or not. They tried it with my brother one time, but he was able to provide pictures that clearly showed his car was parked BEHIND the "NO PARKING/BUS STOP" sign. They are no above the law simply because no buses are running at the time of his video. There's no emergency reasons for them to be parked there, so they should be following the same laws the rest of us have to.

[artthouwill]

48 minutes ago, jajuan said:

 

His point is they do this even when the bus is in service. And he has a valid point that if it were civilians doing this, they'd be getting tickets whether the bus is running or not. They tried it with my brother one time, but he was able to provide pictures that clearly showed his car was parked BEHIND the "NO PARKING/BUS STOP" sign. They are no above the law simply because no buses are running at the time of his video. There's no emergency reasons for them to be parked there, so they should be following the same laws the rest of us have to.

I get it.  I was only messing with him because he was so pissed.    

We've discussed this before.   While generally speaking.there probably isn't an emergency at this particular stop, I would cut the cops some slack at other spots depending on the situation.   If it's an area where there's little to no street parking and that's the only available place to park,  im okay with that.   People complain about slow response times  but want cops to park 2 or 3 blocks away.  A call doesn't always require use of lights and sirens to justify parking at a particular location.   It's like chasing a speeding criminal but expects the cops to catch them while doing the speed limit.

At that particular location,  I feel him.  All I'm saying is every situation is different and should be treated accordingly. 

[Shannoncvpi]

49 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I get it.  I was only messing with him because he was so pissed.    

We've discussed this before.   While generally speaking.there probably isn't an emergency at this particular stop, I would cut the cops some slack at other spots depending on the situation.   If it's an area where there's little to no street parking and that's the only available place to park,  im okay with that.   People complain about slow response times  but want cops to park 2 or 3 blocks away.  A call doesn't always require use of lights and sirens to justify parking at a particular location.   It's like chasing a speeding criminal but expects the cops to catch them while doing the speed limit.

At that particular location,  I feel him.  All I'm saying is every situation is different and should be treated accordingly. 

No I have a issue with it when they are parked here or anywhere when its no good reason they do this on taylor Street when they go and get lunch ive did the 157 before & low-key I scrapped the sqaud car oh well screw them they was in al's beef getting lunch but parked in the bus stop zone 

[Shannoncvpi]

Just now, Shannoncvpi said:

No I have a issue with it when they are parked here or anywhere when its no good reason they do this on taylor Street when they go and get lunch ive did the 157 before & low-key I scrapped the sqaud car oh well screw them they was in al's beef getting lunch but parked in the bus stop zone and that is another reason I do what I wanna do & park where I want & they always look pass me 

 

[Shannoncvpi]

3 hours ago, artthouwill said:

But the bus isn't running today  so need to stress.  Nobody waiting for the bus today.  Chill!

Just like Thursday I was on the 126 pulled up to jackson & Cicero & a gangmember in blue I turned in front of me & tried to park in the bus stop zone to go to Maxwell I got real close up on them & blew the horn till they moved the officer partner was getting out to go get lunch 

[Shannoncvpi]

Was next to 1611 this morning & my daughter had said dad the bus making loud noises it was the battery charging 

[Shannoncvpi]

On 5/29/2022 at 8:13 PM, artthouwill said:

I get it.  I was only messing with him because he was so pissed.    

We've discussed this before.   While generally speaking.there probably isn't an emergency at this particular stop, I would cut the cops some slack at other spots depending on the situation.   If it's an area where there's little to no street parking and that's the only available place to park,  im okay with that.   People complain about slow response times  but want cops to park 2 or 3 blocks away.  A call doesn't always require use of lights and sirens to justify parking at a particular location.   It's like chasing a speeding criminal but expects the cops to catch them while doing the speed limit.

At that particular location,  I feel him.  All I'm saying is every situation is different and should be treated accordingly. 

When they go to the district & they park in the front they are parking to go in & jaw jack or shift change there is no emergency to park at the bus stop at the district CPD just being the biggest law breakers as always

[Shannoncvpi]

6163 got kicked out of the garage its sitting on the side of C & they moved 6836 to the back but it's missing its bike rack 

[BusHunter]

5 minutes ago, Shannoncvpi said:

6163 got kicked out of the garage its sitting on the side of C & they moved 6836 to the back but it's missing its bike rack 

You saw how they put the new gate at chicago and kostner. CTA is taking ownership of the street there so outside the garage is still the garage. 

[Shannoncvpi]

5 hours ago, BusHunter said:

You saw how they put the new gate at chicago and kostner. CTA is taking ownership of the street there so outside the garage is still the garage. 

I saw the gate there they blocked off at that waste of money was police acadmy they building 

[Shannoncvpi]

1633 broke down on Roosevelt & Jefferson while either doing the 12 or 18 

[Shannoncvpi]

1056 gone be out for a few weeks jeep ran into it last night need a new rim & panel