CTA adds #157 & #52/94 Bus Pilots.

[YoungBusLover]

1 hour ago, sht6131 said:

If you look at the run time of the 52 between Chicago and the north terminal it is approximately 60 minutes both directions including layover. Under the current schedule that would be about 7 to 8 bus`s. Why can`t Kedzie just send those bus`s to 74th.  If that weakens kedzie`s bus assignments than a few other like C or 77 could pitch in

Ha that's a good one. I'm pretty sure Kedzie and 74th will share the route similar to how 74th shares western with North Park. So that'll sort itself out real quickly if the top brass goes that route which in my opinion would be the best solution. The only problem with the pilots is the big elephant in the room and that is covid-19 vs ridership for all three.

[Sam92]

30 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

Ha that's a good one. I'm pretty sure Kedzie and 74th will share the route similar to how 74th shares western with North Park. So that'll sort itself out real quickly if the top brass goes that route which in my opinion would be the best solution. The only problem with the pilots is the big elephant in the room and that is covid-19 vs ridership for all three.

Yeah did they adjust the required numbers for this? Or at least  have some type of waiver due to the situation? ?

[BusHunter]

74th will be in high demand. It has alot of long routes now. Its gonna need a good 7-10 buses for the extension. 

I would be a fan of making the #94 a kedzie route shaving off the 74th section. Have the buses do what they were doing before, turn around in Marquette park. Then it would be effectiant because you would have a central layover and pullin and out spot. How do you manage pull ins an hour before they pullin? Like halsted you dont have lsd and with ashland you dont have orange.line short runs from midway  Unless that gets introduced. I suppose they could try that. 

As far as the blue line and green I dont get why a Humboldt park rider would take the green. You would think most go east for se service north for nw service. Green line would take too long to get to. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

20 hours ago, BusHunter said:

74th will be in high demand. It has alot of long routes now. Its gonna need a good 7-10 buses for the extension. 

I would be a fan of making the #94 a kedzie route shaving off the 74th section. Have the buses do what they were doing before, turn around in Marquette park. Then it would be effectiant because you would have a central layover and pullin and out spot. How do you manage pull ins an hour before they pullin? Like halsted you dont have lsd and with ashland you dont have orange.line short runs from midway  Unless that gets introduced. I suppose they could try that. 

As far as the blue line and green I dont get why a Humboldt park rider would take the green. You would think most go east for se service north for nw service. Green line would take too long to get to. 

What's your definition of long? The 9, 49, 62 & new 94 would be the only routes over 10 miles. I think the 94 will be fine as is, routing-wise, and should be shared with Kedzie. And for however long the pandemic is going on during the pilot, they won't actually need extra buses.

If you're at Divison/California or south of that point, you're either equidistant btwn the Blue & Green or closer to the Green Line, making the Green Line the "faster" option. However, if they're banking on the 94's CTA connection being more attractive than the 70, 66 or 65, they're sorely mistaken. I think @artthouwill's statement that this was more an attempt to streamline Kedzie & California rather than get Humboldt Park riders to take the Green Line rings true here.

[Anthony Devera]

29 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I think @artthouwill's statement that this was more an attempt to streamline Kedzie & California rather than get Humboldt Park riders to take the Green Line rings true here.

I think another possible factor is to reduce the load on Kedzie garage. Right now it is operating at full capacity, while 74th has a lot of spare capacity. 74th could easily handle the extension; the only problem I see is deadheads. As many have said, sharing the route with Kedzie could help solve this problem.

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

What's your definition of long? The 9, 49, 62 & new 94 would be the only routes over 10 miles. I think the 94 will be fine as is, routing-wise, and should be shared with Kedzie. And for however long the pandemic is going on during the pilot, they won't actually need extra buses.

If you're at Divison/California or south of that point, you're either equidistant btwn the Blue & Green or closer to the Green Line, making the Green Line the "faster" option. However, if they're banking on the 94's CTA connection being more attractive than the 70, 66 or 65, they're sorely mistaken. I think @artthouwill's statement that this was more an attempt to streamline Kedzie & California rather than get Humboldt Park riders to take the Green Line rings true here.

Yeah and guess what garage they all come out of? Green line is not faster because you can't fly over Metra you have to go around it. Plus once your there service is not that good like the blue line. The #52 has alot of ridership to have it end at Chicago is a waste. They should have at least ran it to Logan Square. You know as far as the west side where the #94 is pro green line the #94 is anti Forest Park branch. All the riders from southern Oak Park, the southern West side, and Forest Park are the big losers cause now they have no connection to points north on California at Congress, cause the blue line don't stop there. So while there may be a positive there is also a negative.

[NewFlyerMCI]

9 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Yeah and guess what garage they all come out of? Green line is not faster because you can't fly over Metra you have to go around it. Plus once your there service is not that good like the blue line. The #52 has alot of ridership to have it end at Chicago is a waste. They should have at least ran it to Logan Square. You know as far as the west side where the #94 is pro green line the #94 is anti Forest Park branch. All the riders from southern Oak Park, the southern West side, and Forest Park are the big losers cause now they have no connection to points north on California at Congress, cause the blue line don't stop there. So while there may be a positive there is also a negative.

I know they're all ran out of 74th, that's why I mentioned them. And what I'm saying is that if those are all the routes over 10 miles, 74th can handle the 94 just fine, especially during the pandemic.

I absolutely agree the 52 should've gone to Logan Square.

Are there enough people coming from the West Side that that's a legitimate issue? That can't be resolved via the 82 or 49? Or some other right angle transfer? I imagine the Congress Branch, much like the Dan Ryan, doesn't have that many walk-up riders

[BusHunter]

25 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I know they're all ran out of 74th, that's why I mentioned them. And what I'm saying is that if those are all the routes over 10 miles, 74th can handle the 94 just fine, especially during the pandemic.

I absolutely agree the 52 should've gone to Logan Square.

Are there enough people coming from the West Side that that's a legitimate issue? That can't be resolved via the 82 or 49? Or some other right angle transfer? I imagine the Congress Branch, much like the Dan Ryan, doesn't have that many walk-up riders

Don't know but there are also the Pace riders coming into Forest pk from the west like Oakbrook, Maywood, Berkeley, Westchester. Even the north Kedzie community is affected going north is basically riding to a dead end. We shall see, but you never know Logan Square might become a reality, that area has high foot traffic, so it could be a draw. Target is moving in to Logan Square. Where is there a Target on the west side? Just Racine/blue line that's about it.

[TransitQueen22]

my perfect solution:

extend 52 up north to logan square blue; there should be enough space at the terminal (if i’m not mistaken) since only 56 & 76 stop there. 

extend 94 to montrose (would have to terminate at kimball brown) 

i might have said this before on here (but my memory is sh*t so don’t judge me lmaoo) but i think the route would be great to better serve albany park. i for one have always wanted a way to better travel down california; the 93 terminates at kimball, but there is no other possible way to go more south without having to take 93, 52 & 94. just a thought idk i could be wrong. 

 

[TaylorTank1229]

4 hours ago, TransitQueen22 said:

my perfect solution:

extend 52 up north to logan square blue; there should be enough space at the terminal (if i’m not mistaken) since only 56 & 76 stop there. 

extend 94 to montrose (would have to terminate at kimball brown) 

i might have said this before on here (but my memory is sh*t so don’t judge me lmaoo) but i think the route would be great to better serve albany park. i for one have always wanted a way to better travel down california; the 93 terminates at kimball, but there is no other possible way to go more south without having to take 93, 52 & 94. just a thought idk i could be wrong. 

 

I agree, there’s an extra bus bay at Logan Square that is barely used (unless it’s for shuttle buses), and that way, #52 passengers don’t  lose their connection to the O’Hare branch of the Blue Line. But then it would be duplicating the #82 between Douglas Blvd (1400S) & Milwaukee Ave, which is 1/4 mile west of Kedzie. 
 

If the 94 was extended north of Addison, I would say have it terminate at Western Brown Line, going via California, Montrose, Western, Western Brown Line Terminal. There is a extra bay there that is also rarely used unless it’s for shuttles.

[sht6131]

9 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Don't know but there are also the Pace riders coming into Forest pk from the west like Oakbrook, Maywood, Berkeley, Westchester. Even the north Kedzie community is affected going north is basically riding to a dead end. We shall see, but you never know Logan Square might become a reality, that area has high foot traffic, so it could be a draw. Target is moving in to Logan Square. Where is there a Target on the west side? Just Racine/blue line that's about it.

Going north to Logan Square  riding to a dead end is absolutely correct. It serves no purpose. There would be almost 0 revenue between Augusta  and North ave due to Humboldt Park on the east side. Besides, its already 82 territory 2 blocks west and presently extends the ride to north of Logan Square. 

[artthouwill]

On 5/17/2020 at 12:04 AM, BusHunter said:

74th will be in high demand. It has alot of long routes now. Its gonna need a good 7-10 buses for the extension. 

I would be a fan of making the #94 a kedzie route shaving off the 74th section. Have the buses do what they were doing before, turn around in Marquette park. Then it would be effectiant because you would have a central layover and pullin and out spot. How do you manage pull ins an hour before they pullin? Like halsted you dont have lsd and with ashland you dont have orange.line short runs from midway  Unless that gets introduced. I suppose they could try that. 

As far as the blue line and green I dont get why a Humboldt park rider would take the green. You would think most go east for se service north for nw service. Green line would take too long to get to. 

7 to 10 extra buses?  No way.

Also, the talk of essentially keeping the California portion of the 52 AND  extending the 94 is ludicrous.   Any west sider or  Forest Park branch rider wishing for ride north can use the 49 or 82 or ride the Blue to California...  North California's not able to support two routes . 

[BusHunter]

53 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

7 to 10 extra buses?  No way.

Also, the talk of essentially keeping the California portion of the 52 AND  extending the 94 is ludicrous.   Any west sider or  Forest Park branch rider wishing for ride north can use the 49 or 82 or ride the Blue to California...  North California's not able to support two routes . 

Way. They will need spares and what you propose 3 buses is a sunday schedule. Heck they'll need 3 buses just to extend to Armitage. Expect to see droves of people switching buses at Chicago/Sacramento. Don't know if it will catch on. My experience with the #94 is as it goes north it gets less riders, by the time you roll through the heart of the west side Jackson, Madison, Warren the bus is basically dead. The area around the green line is supported by it not the #94. Now the #52 is different it maintains a steady flow of traffic throughout the north Kedzie community. There are not factories and more affluent condo owners that won't ride the CTA in that neighborhood like the north #94 segment. So it works. Now it's going to be dysfunctional. CTA will probably keep the changes though the #31 still rolls around and it has basically no ridership. Kedzie has some good draws, the high school, the west side shelter, the police station, shopping at Roosevelt. It's a good economic engine. California is residential at best, the only thing that really draws is the hospital at ogden but the pink line or #157 goes there. I honestly think what will happen is the #82 ridership will skyrocket. it's 2 blocks away and does link to logan square and points north. It serves all train service except the green but that is only 2 blocks away. If I was living there that's what I'd ride. At least it's functional. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

40 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Way. They will need spares and what you propose 3 buses is a sunday schedule. Heck they'll need 3 buses just to extend to Armitage. Expect to see droves of people switching buses at Chicago/Sacramento. Don't know if it will catch on. My experience with the #94 is as it goes north it gets less riders, by the time you roll through the heart of the west side Jackson, Madison, Warren the bus is basically dead. The area around the green line is supported by it not the #94. Now the #52 is different it maintains a steady flow of traffic throughout the north Kedzie community. There are not factories and more affluent condo owners that won't ride the CTA in that neighborhood like the north #94 segment. So it works. Now it's going to be dysfunctional. CTA will probably keep the changes though the #31 still rolls around and it has basically no ridership. Kedzie has some good draws, the high school, the west side shelter, the police station, shopping at Roosevelt. It's a good economic engine. California is residential at best, the only thing that really draws is the hospital at ogden but the pink line or #157 goes there. I honestly think what will happen is the #82 ridership will skyrocket. it's 2 blocks away and does link to logan square and points north. It serves all train service except the green but that is only 2 blocks away. If I was living there that's what I'd ride. At least it's functional. 

The 82 is murdered by stop signs. 40 minutes to go from Lake to Irving Park, jeez.

[sht6131]

3 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

The 82 is murdered by stop signs. 40 minutes to go from Lake to Irving Park, jeez.

And they continue after that.

[BusHunter]

15 minutes ago, sht6131 said:

And they continue after that.

Welcome to chi town, where there are more speed bumps, traffic cameras, speeding cameras, Cul de sacs, curb cuts, bike lanes than anyone else. Talk about municipal control. You don't see until you leave the city how much better everyplace else is. South California is like that. Damen is like that. Streets like Western have so many speeding and red light cameras they ruin the street. Then the bike lanes ruin traffic. Milwaukee is a mess. It's like the street was built for bikes not cars. Then most places outside the city are tollways, so you can escape the city but you will pay for it!! The home of Al Capone and organized crime has changed but in ways it's still the same. Home sweet home!!?

Oh I forgot to mention staying on topic the whole california is stop signs north to Division it's almost every street. I was ubering there it's incredible how bad that has been screwed up. It's faster to drive through humboldt park!!

[artthouwill]

56 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Way. They will need spares and what you propose 3 buses is a sunday schedule. Heck they'll need 3 buses just to extend to Armitage. Expect to see droves of people switching buses at Chicago/Sacramento. Don't know if it will catch on. My experience with the #94 is as it goes north it gets less riders, by the time you roll through the heart of the west side Jackson, Madison, Warren the bus is basically dead. The area around the green line is supported by it not the #94. Now the #52 is different it maintains a steady flow of traffic throughout the north Kedzie community. There are not factories and more affluent condo owners that won't ride the CTA in that neighborhood like the north #94 segment. So it works. Now it's going to be dysfunctional. CTA will probably keep the changes though the #31 still rolls around and it has basically no ridership. Kedzie has some good draws, the high school, the west side shelter, the police station, shopping at Roosevelt. It's a good economic engine. California is residential at best, the only thing that really draws is the hospital at ogden but the pink line or #157 goes there. I honestly think what will happen is the #82 ridership will skyrocket. it's 2 blocks away and does link to logan square and points north. It serves all train service except the green but that is only 2 blocks away. If I was living there that's what I'd ride. At least it's functional. 

Look at the current schedule on the 52.  A bus leaves Addison and Rockwell.   By the time it reaches California and Mulwaukee, another bus leaves Addison.   By the time rge first bus reaches Chicago and Kedzie, a third bus is leaving Addison.  Now let's count the first bus at Chicago as a 94 .  The aforementioned 2 buses coming south plus a NB bus around Addison is 3 buses.  Let's add one more NB bus at California and Milwaukee.   That's only 4 additional buses for the 94. These calculations are based in the published schedules. 

Believe it or not,  the 52 and 94 are quite similar in frequency  

[BusHunter]

16 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Look at the current schedule on the 52.  A bus leaves Addison and Rockwell.   By the time it reaches California and Mulwaukee, another bus leaves Addison.   By the time rge first bus reaches Chicago and Kedzie, a third bus is leaving Addison.  Now let's count the first bus at Chicago as a 94 .  The aforementioned 2 buses coming south plus a NB bus around Addison is 3 buses.  Let's add one more NB bus at California and Milwaukee.   That's only 4 additional buses for the 94. These calculations are based in the published schedules. 

Believe it or not,  the 52 and 94 are quite similar in frequency  

The routes are so long they will need extended layovers. That's why you see sometimes 2 or 3 #94's hanging out on Chicago avenue. The #52 is no different. Unless it's late it's not unusual to see 2 buses at a terminal. Hopefully the schedule is practical for the operators or pass out the headache pills at 74th!! So you propose no spares. If a bus breaks down how will they have service? Plus if your employees have no layover they will be grouchy and prone to accidents. They need something sitting at the terminal. If the route is shared it may not need any buses extra. For all the service you have above coming south nothing is going north. you need to look at the NB schedule 3 plus 3 is 6 my friend and a spare or two is 7 or 8.

[artthouwill]

9 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

The routes are so long they will need extended layovers. That's why you see sometimes 2 or 3 #94's hanging out on Chicago avenue. The #52 is no different. Unless it's late it's not unusual to see 2 buses at a terminal. Hopefully the schedule is practical for the operators or pass out the headache pills at 74th!! So you propose no spares. If a bus breaks down how will they have service? Plus if your employees have no layover they will be grouchy and prone to accidents. They need something sitting at the terminal. If the route is shared it may not need any buses extra. For all the service you have above coming south nothing is going north. you need to look at the NB schedule 3 plus 3 is 6 my friend and a spare or two is 7 or 8.

The spare ratio off adding 4 buses to a route may only go up one bus.   This assumption a 15 to 1 ratio.  Even if you go with a 10 to 1 or 5 to 1, , that's only 5 additional buses total for 74th.

[sht6131]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

The routes are so long they will need extended layovers. That's why you see sometimes 2 or 3 #94's hanging out on Chicago avenue. The #52 is no different. Unless it's late it's not unusual to see 2 buses at a terminal. Hopefully the schedule is practical for the operators or pass out the headache pills at 74th!! So you propose no spares. If a bus breaks down how will they have service? Plus if your employees have no layover they will be grouchy and prone to accidents. They need something sitting at the terminal. If the route is shared it may not need any buses extra. For all the service you have above coming south nothing is going north. you need to look at the NB schedule 3 plus 3 is 6 my friend and a spare or two is 7 or 8.

That`s exactly what I figured on my Saturday post. 7 to 8 during rush.  Drivers need at least 10 minutes recovery at the north end. 3 would work on Sunday and 4 would work on Saturday

[artthouwill]

5 hours ago, BusHunter said:

The routes are so long they will need extended layovers. That's why you see sometimes 2 or 3 #94's hanging out on Chicago avenue. The #52 is no different. Unless it's late it's not unusual to see 2 buses at a terminal. Hopefully the schedule is practical for the operators or pass out the headache pills at 74th!! So you propose no spares. If a bus breaks down how will they have service? Plus if your employees have no layover they will be grouchy and prone to accidents. They need something sitting at the terminal. If the route is shared it may not need any buses extra. For all the service you have above coming south nothing is going north. you need to look at the NB schedule 3 plus 3 is 6 my friend and a spare or two is 7 or 8.

You are counting the buses at Chicago Avenue  (one in each direction).  They are already accounted for as the end and beginning what is currently the 94.  In essence,  you are double counting 2 buses.  And you have 2 buses at Addison  (one arriving and one leaving, and 2 buses at California and Milwaukee (one in each direction).  That's 4 buses.  The 2 or 3 or 4 buses at Chicago are assumed to be a part of the current 94.

Spare ratio is the amount of spares per in service buses needed.  For every 15 buses a garage needs for service, they need a spare bus.  Even adding 4 buses to 94 wouldn't necessarily  mean they need an additional spare,but I gifted you one anyway.

[BusHunter]

Yeah but you  have to count double because how can the nb ever become sb with the same headway. You cant stretch the service too thin or you will have tired overworked operators. That's why at clark/belle plaine there can be as many as 4 buses there. They need layover time as well. It's like at my company we get an hour to get to the charter wherever it is. Longer than that if it's far. Do we need that maybe not but rushing your operators and stressing them out will make them make mistakes. That's why most transit companies dont frown on the late operator because most of your job is mental not physical and they need you in top shape. You control the future of its passengers as well as yours in your hands.

[NewFlyerMCI]

I just realized, what's the point of the 94 continuing down to 71st? Why not make the left at 69th? Also interesting that the X49, which stops at 67th where there are no buses, stops at 69th instead of 71st 

[NewFlyerMCI]

Due to work and Orange Line shenanigans, I had to take an alternate route home. Here are some more of the new stops signs. Not sure I like this grey square motif.

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I just realized, what's the point of the 94 continuing down to 71st? Why not make the left at 69th? Also interesting that the X49, which stops at 67th where there are no buses, stops at 69th instead of 71st 

Marquette is 1/2 miles from 63rd.  The reason for 69th being a stop is that it's a transfer point for the 67.  Not all 67s go west of Western.