CTA New Bus Order 2020

[Mr.cta85]

On 2/10/2021 at 3:01 PM, NewFlyerMCI said:

Ugh. The next ~400 bus order better not be Nova as well

Exactly smh I’m pissed Nova got the contract instead of New Flyers. But like you said hopefully the next 400 will be Flyers.

[Mr.cta85]

23 hours ago, strictures said:

What I want is a software fix that will prevent the drivers from jerking the bus from a standing start.  The Pace drivers manage to start their buses without the jerk, but CTA drivers seem to love doing it & coming close to knocking passengers over. 

No Cta driver loves jerking the bus and coming close to knocking passengers over that’s a ridiculous thing to say considering how fast the operators get called in the office for call ins let alone a fall on board. I resent that statement. Those Nova buses are just built like that until you get used to the breaking and acceleration of the 7900-8324 buses. 8325-49 are different in acceleration and breaking.

[Mr.cta85]

5 hours ago, geneking7320 said:

I hope I can ask this question without derailing this thread.

I just searched for the wheelbase of the 40ft Novabus LFS and it was 244in.

The 40ft New Flyer DLF has a wheelbase of 293in. 

To the operators on this site - are those differences good, bad, or indifferent?

 

It depends on what you like. For me I prefer the Flyers wheel base cause you can go over bumps, dips, and humps easier without the bounciness like you would with a nova lol. Novas with the shorter wheel base you have to know the street you’re working to be more cautious of the bumps on that street cause if you hit a bump going too fast your bus will be a bouncy house lol. I like both flyer and nova tho. Still most operators prefer Flyers over Novas but it’s still a lot of operators who prefer novas as well.

[artthouwill]

6 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I never drove for CTA, but generally speaking from my motor coach experience, longer wheelbase give better, more stable rides.  The pivot point for turns us shorter on the shorter wheelbase vehicles, but that tends to lead to more swing out action with the rear of the bus. My eye test tells me the front end of the Novas are longer (slightly) than the New Flyers.  The  back end from the back wheels also seems longer on the Novas cs the New Flyers.  While I have never driven a Nova, u have driven New Flyer low floors.  They are quick and hold the road well.  I hated driven an Xcelsior though.

Should say i haven't driven an Xcelsior. Not hated one.

[YoungBusLover]

8 hours ago, Mr.cta85 said:

It depends on what you like. For me I prefer the Flyers wheel base cause you can go over bumps, dips, and humps easier without the bounciness like you would with a nova lol. Novas with the shorter wheel base you have to know the street you’re working to be more cautious of the bumps on that street cause if you hit a bump going too fast your bus will be a bouncy house lol. I like both flyer and nova tho. Still most operators prefer Flyers over Novas but it’s still a lot of operators who prefer novas as well.

Those novas are the decedents to the Flxible Metro series just for the suspension alone, they bounce so much it makes me feel like I'm operating a Jeep Cherokee off road. I personally perfer the New Flyers over the newest Novas but id rather operate the oldest novas and flyers. They're much more tolerable to operate.

[Sam92]

1 minute ago, YoungBusLover said:

Those novas are the decedents to the Flxible Metro series just for the suspension alone, they bounce so much it makes me feel like I'm operating a Jeep Cherokee off road. I personally perfer the New Flyers over the newest Novas but id rather operate the oldest novas and flyers. They're much more tolerable to operate.

Man. Era of the flyers to era of the novas 

[YoungBusLover]

1 minute ago, Sam92 said:

Man. Era of the flyers to era of the novas 

Yeah one day it will be the era of Gillig ???????.

[BusHunter]

3 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Man. Era of the flyers to era of the novas 

Now the official press release says the first 100 buses will retire buses bought in 2002. Didnt they say the Proterras were going to do that before? So what does that mean the novas will get here before the proterras? Regardless it's a snail's race. They claim in 2 years most (did they say 70 percent?) Of the fleet will be beyond it's useful life. Hate to tell them but by then they might have 300 novas. Just fix the ac guys, that's all we ask. 

 

[BusHunter]

So I guess if ordered in the 8325 spec, we can say goodbye to hopper windows. Probably no back windows either.

[geneking7320]

33 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

So I guess if ordered in the 8325 spec, we can say goodbye to hopper windows. Probably no back windows either.

When I sit next to the rear side windows of the 8325 spec I have a clear view out. With other buses the bottom of the hopper is in the way. ?

[Sam92]

18 hours ago, strictures said:

I don't care where the 1930s go, as long as they replace the seats with the seats on the rest of the 1000s!  There's a couple of them at NP & those seats are an atrocity!

Not to be that guy but longtitutional seating DOES have its purposes on certain routes especially if you’re not on the bus for a long time. It may be on uncomfortable but at least you’re still getting where you need vs on a vehicle without the seats in which you might get skipped for lack of space. I can’t imagine 2600’s on the red line now as crowded as it is lmao. It’s no coincidence that 77th, NP, and C having the highest ridership routes usually end up with any longtitutional seating weather artic or 40ft. 

[BusHunter]

10 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Not to be that guy but longtitutional seating DOES have its purposes on certain routes especially if you’re not on the bus for a long time. It may be on uncomfortable but at least you’re still getting where you need vs on a vehicle without the seats in which you might get skipped for lack of space. I can’t imagine 2600’s on the red line now as crowded as it is lmao. It’s no coincidence that 77th, NP, and C having the highest ridership routes usually end up with any longtitutional seating weather artic or 40ft. 

I like those seats, but I dont like the 5000s railcar seating config. Probably cause it's a mix of seats on the buses. Plus you have strollers and grocery carts and who knows what else. A nice wide aisle is good. I loved the 5300/4400 seats. 

[strictures]

21 hours ago, Mr.cta85 said:

No Cta driver loves jerking the bus and coming close to knocking passengers over that’s a ridiculous thing to say considering how fast the operators get called in the office for call ins let alone a fall on board. I resent that statement. Those Nova buses are just built like that until you get used to the breaking and acceleration of the 7900-8324 buses. 8325-49 are different in acceleration and breaking.

I flat out guarantee you there are some drivers that love to jerk the bus to a start!   To say they don't is absurd!  As one who was knocked down by a jerk start & the driver didn't do a thing & I was even holding on to a stanchion when he did start it up with a jerk. 

I immediately complained, but of course, you never hear back as to any punishment, if any!

[strictures]

11 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Not to be that guy but longtitutional seating DOES have its purposes on certain routes especially if you’re not on the bus for a long time. It may be on uncomfortable but at least you’re still getting where you need vs on a vehicle without the seats in which you might get skipped for lack of space. I can’t imagine 2600’s on the red line now as crowded as it is lmao. It’s no coincidence that 77th, NP, and C having the highest ridership routes usually end up with any longtitutional seating weather artic or 40ft. 

Those sideways seats have no purposes, either bus or L, because the seats are too narrow for today's sized people!   They are 18" wide & my shoulders are 22" wide.   Most women are wider on the bottom than 18". 

[YoungBusLover]

29 minutes ago, strictures said:

I flat out guarantee you there are some drivers that love to jerk the bus to a start!   To say they don't is absurd!  As one who was knocked down by a jerk start & the driver didn't do a thing & I was even holding on to a stanchion when he did start it up with a jerk. 

I immediately complained, but of course, you never hear back as to any punishment, if any!

Passengers that are standing up before a bus is about to take off is just asking for paychecks in my eyes, I try my best to make a smooth transition when accelerating and deaccelerating but as mr.cta85 stated the Novas are designed like that, some are more noticeable than others but that's just the way they're designed, no matter what the operator does, if you just tap the accelerator the bus will jerk forward before fully taking off, all buses are like that regardless of the brand or operator that is operating said bus at the time. 

[Sam92]

2 hours ago, strictures said:

Those sideways seats have no purposes, either bus or L, because the seats are too narrow for today's sized people!   They are 18" wide & my shoulders are 22" wide.   Most women are wider on the bottom than 18". 

Thats a comfort issue is talking CAPACITY wise they very well have a point. I can tell you from plenty experience when it comes to crush loads on lake shore the 4150s  allow better circulation same for the red line during rush compared to having to dip between both people AND the 2x2 seating. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

50 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Thats a comfort issue is talking CAPACITY wise they very well have a point. I can tell you from plenty experience when it comes to crush loads on lake shore the 4150s  allow better circulation same for the red line during rush compared to having to dip between both people AND the 2x2 seating. 

While I hate all the horizontal seating, it definitely serves its purpose. Two people can stand side by side on the bus, maybe even three on the train. Those extra 13 CTA buses definitely got a lot of complaints in Baltimore for their seating arrangements tho, but that's cause Baltimore doesn't have the same number of high-capacity routes (and also cause they weren't deployed correctly often times lol)

[Sam92]

3 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

While I hate all the horizontal seating, it definitely serves its purpose. Two people can stand side by side on the bus, maybe even three on the train. Those extra 13 CTA buses definitely got a lot of complaints in Baltimore for their seating arrangements tho, but that's cause Baltimore doesn't have the same number of high-capacity routes (and also cause they weren't deployed correctly often times lol)

The cancelled artics ended up with the silver seats too? Guess it took a while to get the normal ones. Ironically the 4150 seats were more “we need whatever you got to replace the NABIs” situation. CTA didn’t want to wait which is why 4300s go back to the original layout

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 minute ago, Sam92 said:

The cancelled artics ended up with the silver seats too? Guess it took a while to get the normal ones. Ironically the 4150 seats were more “we need whatever you got to replace the NABIs” situation. CTA didn’t want to wait which is why 4300s go back to the original layout

It's been years since I rode one, but I believe they did have silver backs. The fabric was changed out to the MTA's space-y pattern on at least one I believe. I just know the only forward facing seats were the two upfront and the 5 across the back. How did MTA even end up with those anyway? Contract option that CTA never exercised?

[Sam92]

4 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

It's been years since I rode one, but I believe they did have silver backs. The fabric was changed out to the MTA's space-y pattern on at least one I believe. I just know the only forward facing seats were the two upfront and the 5 across the back. How did MTA even end up with those anyway? Contract option that CTA never exercised?

Cta had a contract for 900 artics that flopped and mta took on some of them. Like months to a year after the 4150s came. Basically new flyer proceeded with production before cta officially gave word. It’s a topic on here actually under “up to 900 articulated” or something.  Basically cta almost made Seattle’s mistake of thinking artics solve all issues with crowding 

 

[strictures]

5 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

Passengers that are standing up before a bus is about to take off is just asking for paychecks in my eyes, I try my best to make a smooth transition when accelerating and deaccelerating but as mr.cta85 stated the Novas are designed like that, some are more noticeable than others but that's just the way they're designed, no matter what the operator does, if you just tap the accelerator the bus will jerk forward before fully taking off, all buses are like that regardless of the brand or operator that is operating said bus at the time. 

Except I had just boarded that bus & was walking back to a seat, holding on to a stanchion.  It takes one hell of a jerk, both the bus & the driver, to knock someone down while holding a stanchion!

[artthouwill]

6 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

Passengers that are standing up before a bus is about to take off is just asking for paychecks in my eyes, I try my best to make a smooth transition when accelerating and deaccelerating but as mr.cta85 stated the Novas are designed like that, some are more noticeable than others but that's just the way they're designed, no matter what the operator does, if you just tap the accelerator the bus will jerk forward before fully taking off, all buses are like that regardless of the brand or operator that is operating said bus at the time. 

Not sure  if its possible on CTA. but most Pace operators wait until the boarding passengers sit before pulling off from  a stop.  Would that affect running time on CTA?

[YoungBusLover]

1 hour ago, strictures said:

Except I had just boarded that bus & was walking back to a seat, holding on to a stanchion.  It takes one hell of a jerk, both the bus & the driver, to knock someone down while holding a stanchion!

Were there any seats available in the front of the bus? What route did this occur on along with the stop you were picked up at? 

56 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Not sure  if its possible on CTA. but most Pace operators wait until the boarding passengers sit before pulling off from  a stop.  Would that affect running time on CTA?

Most of the time if we see the bus isn't as crowded we would hope the passengers find a seat as quickly as possible instead of playing musical chairs for nearly 10 to 15 seconds in some cases to find a seat, I'm more vigilant with mothers with strollers, young kids, seniors and ADA passengers I wait for them to be fully seated especially on Cottage Grove and South Kedzie because that's like the bread and butter for me as far as seeing the most activity, King Drive comes as a close third but the run paddles we currently have gives the operators in some cases enough time to get up and down the street unless we're aware that we may not have a leader then we'll have to make adjustments along the way to at least stay remotely close on schedule. Safety for me is a top priority at the end of the day I can't speak for the rest of the operators though, some have a quick trigger foot when passengers board and haven't been given a chance to sit down, I remember last month I was with some family members on 63rd going eastbound from Stewart and before we could even find a seat on a fairly crowded bus the operator just smashed the accelerator and just knocked us all back about five feet before we could even grab on to something, I gave him the deepest stare down ever because I'm like come on dude you've seen me before in uniform get on your bus at times and you we're considerate enough for me to wait and let me sit down or at least grab on to the pole.  Those trigger foot operators are usually always ahead of schedule in some cases and safety at times gets thrown out of the window.

[Mr.cta85]

12 hours ago, strictures said:

I flat out guarantee you there are some drivers that love to jerk the bus to a start!   To say they don't is absurd!  As one who was knocked down by a jerk start & the driver didn't do a thing & I was even holding on to a stanchion when he did start it up with a jerk. 

I immediately complained, but of course, you never hear back as to any punishment, if any!

I get the feeling you’re probably one of those passengers who call in and complain about operators all the time for every little thing too. Those type of people have reputations around Cta and will ignore you once you call in enough times cause you’re just nitpicking and trying to get operators in trouble purposely. I stand on what I said about you being ridiculous if you think operators enjoy jerking the bus trying to make people fall cause Cta is a customer friendly business in most cases and operators can get called in the office fast due to a call in and get in trouble a lot of times because of it. So with that being said they’re not lookin for any reason to purposely do something like that because they have families to take care of and not easily trying to lose their job. And people like you make it hard to keep them because of petty call ins because you felt like the bus was too jerky smh.

[BusHunter]

I actually had an injury on the CTA, from those jerky TMC buses way back in high school. I was standing at the back door waiting to exit and the jerking caused me to have a knee injury. I never really went to a doctor for it, but it seems like it was an ACL injury. It would bother me for months, one minute it was fine and then it would like pop and you would get excruciating pain. Finally got over that, but when you get like the flu or something the knee aches, once had it ache for 2 weeks during a bad bout of the flu. Lately I've been having a few knee issues, drivers knee, and took some time off from Uber cause maybe I'm driving too much. Can't help but wonder if it's related. I still got my CDL gig, so all is well, but I don't know if I could work a stand up job anymore. Don't get old guys!!