More Bus Moves

[garmon757]

I understand where you're coming from BusHunter but are you trying to say that Cta is becoming geographically biased? Don't get me wrong, there were people bitching about the Flxibles (1995) not being on the north and northwest sides and how the west and south sides were getting the benefit of the doubt. I was too young to understand at the time. About the 2600s on the Blue Line, that line is in complete turmoil on both ends (west and northwest sides) to begin with. The heart of the west side are dealing with the same issue like the northwest side. The only difference is that you don't have to deal with abandoned and demolished stations for over 40-80 years. Over 75 percent of stations being demolished happened on the west and south sides. I will say that I don't understand why the northwest side is getting the short end of the stick but is there a solution to get y'all voices heard???

sw4400, you finding that video (well music) I thought it was pretty cool.

[artthouwill]

I think the real issue is fleet allocation. Someone at CTA wants every bus at every garage to be homogenous. As it stands, 103rd, K, P are all New Flyers and FG is all Novas. Until the 7900s came along, 77th had just become all New Flyer as well. Right now 77th, 74th, and Chicago are mixed fleet, but Chicago has the least almount of Novas, so I expect them to shed their Novas in the near future, leaving only 74th and FG with the old Novas.

There is precedent in that Archer became all Novas while 74th was all Fxbles (6000 series). Had not Archer closed and those Flxs not been breaking down at such a high level, 74th may have never seen any New Flyers. Look at the rail fleetr and you will see the Orange Line is the only line with a mixed fleet.

I believe that as 74th gets more new Novas, any New Flyers it has to give up could go to Chicago so that they can ditch their Novas to FG. Then once 74th gets their allotment of 7900s, FG will get the last set, leaving 77th and 74th as the only two garages with mixed fleets..

[Busjack]

I think the real issue is fleet allocation. Someone at CTA wants every bus at every garage to be homogenous. As it stands, 103rd, K, P are all New Flyers and FG is all Novas. Until the 7900s came along, 77th had just become all New Flyer as well. Right now 77th, 74th, and Chicago are mixed fleet, but Chicago has the least almount of Novas, so I expect them to shed their Novas in the near future, leaving only 74th and FG with the old Novas.

There is precedent in that Archer became all Novas while 74th was all Fxbles (6000 series). Had not Archer closed and those Flxs not been breaking down at such a high level, 74th may have never seen any New Flyers. Look at the rail fleetr and you will see the Orange Line is the only line with a mixed fleet.

I believe that as 74th gets more new Novas, any New Flyers it has to give up could go to Chicago so that they can ditch their Novas to FG. Then once 74th gets their allotment of 7900s, FG will get the last set, leaving 77th and 74th as the only two garages with mixed fleets..

As I noted above, Huberman had the policy of consolidating maintenance supplies, which apparently led to the Archer situation.

However, if FG is to go from all Nova to all Nova, the last 100 of the base plus 150 of the option would have to go there. I doubt that, but as I said, whoever is running the bus moves appears to have lost it upstairs.

[BusHunter]

Fleets being homogonous is one thing but we are transferring same fleet type buses here. Bottom line there is no justification to send the #6800's to 74th. Hello!! 74th is getting new buses. It's like they are trying to PO us. Then they transfer 500-600 buses just to get all the rehabbed buses in one place when they will get that anyway in 6 months. Then they send 74th #6400's to FG instead of retiring them. That to me is the straw that breaks the camels back. Now the fleet is so screwed up I don't know how a wrecker knows where to take a bus. FG is not putting F stickers on the #6600's so far and I haven't seen many other garages do it either. They might have ran out of stickers, if you can believe that!! .This thing going on on the NW side has been going on for years but these latest transfers take it to the extreme. Like I have said many times, the only reason F got most of the new buses in the early 2000's is because they were forced to. That would never happen with free will. Expect more of the same. All #1000's is a real possibility in 2016.

[BusHunter]

Looking at the tracker looks like FG is having a little trouble getting buses out. On the #77 we have two buses west of Laramie and on the #152 they have 5 buses total. Could be some ghost buses though, the only real way to know is to experience it firsthand. #6474 is on the #78, so that confirms they got those back. #6400's at 74th should be down to 5-6 buses. #6797 is on the #75 and I know I saw #6795 at FG, so it just leaves #6796 to wonder where it's at.

FG should have 52 of the 77th #6400 buses now. That's even more than Chicago has and they have 3/4 of a fleet of #1000's to fall back on!!

[busfan2847]

Looking at the tracker looks like FG is having a little trouble getting buses out. On the #77 we have two buses west of Laramie and on the #152 they have 5 buses total. Could be some ghost buses though, the only real way to know is to experience it firsthand. #6474 is on the #78, so that confirms they got those back. #6400's at 74th should be down to 5-6 buses. #6797 is on the #75 and I know I saw #6795 at FG, so it just leaves #6796 to wonder where it's at.

FG should have 52 of the 77th #6400 buses now. That's even more than Chicago has and they have 3/4 of a fleet of #1000's to fall back on!!

6471 was on the 9 today, 6473 on the 63W and 6468 and 6488 on the 44, so they are still at 74th.

6796 is on the 62 so it has moved.

[BusHunter]

6471 was on the 9 today, 6473 on the 63W and 6468 and 6488 on the 44, so they are still at 74th.

6796 is on the 62 so it has moved.

I put #6677 at Fg too. It's on the #90. We need to also be looking at the 4 #6600's at 74th up to #6686. Fg might have all of those from #6665 - #6687. I also haven't seen #6406 or #6407 at FG but they might be at south shops for maintenance or possibly retired.

[busfan2847]

I put #6677 at Fg too. It's on the #90. We need to also be looking at the 4 #6600's at 74th up to #6686. Fg might have all of those from #6665 - #6686. I also haven't seen #6406 or #6407 at FG but they might be at south shops for maintenance or possibly retired.

6599, 6677, 6680, 6681 and 6683 are all out on F routes (as is 6812). 6406 is showing on Busfinder as on the 56. (Where is 6413?)

6794 is on the 48 so it has moved to 74th. 6688-6690 are all showing on 74th routes.

[Guest]

Imma get to the point and say that some of these posts really pissed me off! Like seriously, is Emmanuel Cta God or something??? The last time I've checked is a mayor is responsible for hiring a Cta President, not who get this and that!!! About the slick shot about the south side crying foul if it was the opposite, I'm extremely offended and disappointed. Yes, I live on the south side but I lived almost every side of town throughout my life and I travel everywhere!!! I wouldn't pull the trigger too soon if I were some of y'all. I'm trying to keep my cool here but this s--t is really bothering me a lot! I respect and love y'all but this is extremely getting out of hand.

I tell y'all what, how about some of us meet up somewhere one day and let's settle this topic like gentlemen (ladies are welcomed too if any are members and guests).

Certainly no one is trying to upset anyone here. Were all just trying give opinions as well as statements and I agree, Emmanuel is certainly no God! Nor is he a human being putting people many on the street since he took office! Also, some of us have worked at CTA including myself. We don't know everything about the inner workings of transit in this city. But we see and hear quite a bit! We observe, we pay attention!. We tend to come up with our own conclusions. And when we see unfairness or something that we feel should be brought to attention, it should be called out! If they offend someone, we are truly sorry but at the same time we certainly would like the opportunity to express our opinions as well.

[Guest]

We're just talking Garmon, what ever happened to free speech??? Maybe some of us wouldn't be so PO'ed if we felt we were being treated fairly. I can't help it you are looking forward to new nova's going past your house, where I wonder if they'll ever go past mine. I also can't help you are working on your second generation of new buses, where we can't even move up to the current generation let alone the future generation. So you would really be all happy if the south side was treated like garbage? I hear stories all the time by south siders saying the north side is favored. Maybe they need to come up some time and see our state of the art equipment. So you think we're getting a fair shake? That's your opinion then. I also have an opinion. That's what makes America so great, we can discuss things freely even if they are difficult to discuss. I'm sorry your offended but the entire city does not have your good fortune. Saying what I said took guts, as I know I'm opening myself up to attack, but the topic needs to be explored. If everyone just sits around the fire and sings Kumbaya, then no change will happen. CTA needs to explain to us why we are being treated unfairly because I just don't understand it and my take on it is some of the brass don't know either. This decision all comes down to a few people and there agendas. Something needs to change cause the systems broken.

BusHunter I stand with your statement. Most members who post on here tend to live south and are enjoying the new buses as well as new train cars!. Now for those south siders, come up to the northwest side and you will see an entirely different CTA! No new or recently or even close to new buses or train cars this way! So please understand our frustrations! Now the best example of seeing what we see on the NW side, visit the Jefferson Park Transit station on the Blue Line one day! Youll get a taste having nothing but old worn out equipment. Youll arrive riding the 2600 series cars. Once you enter the bus terminal all you will see are beat up #6400 6500 6600 Novas! The only new buses you will see in this part of the city are the new Pace ElDorados on routes 225 226 and 270. For me and Im sure BusHunter will agree, I myself am very tired and frustrated to be seeing the same riding the same buses since 2001 and the same railcars for the past thirty years!!! New train cars arriving and still no plan to make any changes that could have benefited all CTA rail lines. There are enough railcars in this order for the Blue Line to make some changes for the residents that ride this way! Not to mention this line serves one of our two major airports! While all other CTA lines have benefited in some form or another from the delivery of the 5000 series! But the northwest side is still stuck in the 1980s! The buses, what can we say??? Nothing! thats what!!! Be cause we don't have any nice buses to enjoy this way and we haven't enjoyed any for a long time!. I remember getting excited seeing the NF when they arrived at FG. Then they suddenly were taken away only to be replaced by the same beat up Novas from other garages! Im still seeing and have been riding the same buses I broke in when I was a bus operator at FG almost 15 years ago! I can still remember almost everyday driving old dented, raggedy beat up Flyers and MAN buses. Even our 5500 Flxs were starting to show their age as well. We are certainly not here to offend or belittle anyone, but BusHunter youre right, we do have the right to express opinions on topics discussed here or anywhere even if someone doesent agree with us. For those who don't agree with us, just imagine if it was the other way around and all the new equipment were up northwest and the south side riders were stuck with old beat up 6400 series buses and the Red was still running the entire 2600 railcar fleet. Wouldn't you be just as upset as we are??? I personally have forgotten what it feels like to ride on a brand new bus or brand new railcar because riders haven't been given the opportunity to experience that feeling for a long time if you live on the northwest side! So I ask that some here please understand and respect our concerns and frustrations!

[briman94]

I have a random question...I was waiting for the brown line and a green line got its door stuck because of a piece of ice in the door track. It closed almost all the way but kept dinging and the red light was on. The driver ended up walking to the back of the train to de-ice it and then towards the front, while another green and brown were stacked up behind it.

Hypothetically, if I had gone to remove the ice so the door closed, would he still have to check the back of the train "to make sure?" I almost felt like doing a random act of kindness so he didn't have to walk to the back, but I wasn't sure if he'd still have to check it.

[BusHunter]

6599, 6677, 6680, 6681 and 6683 are all out on F routes (as is 6812). 6406 is showing on Busfinder as on the 56. (Where is 6413?)

6794 is on the 48 so it has moved to 74th. 6688-6690 are all showing on 74th routes.

I think they might intend on taking all the fg amber novas until 74th is complete amber novas we just haven't seen the complete swap yet. As fg inches closer to 80 amber buses left, I feel Chicago might come knocking with its novas next.

[NewFlyerMCI]

#6691 on 55, #6694-95 on 94, #6699 on 76 (not sure if that is new)

[Buslover88]

#6691 on 55, #6694-95 on 94, #6699 on 76 (not sure if that is new)

No, 6699 has been at Forest Glen for a while now.

[BusHunter]

#6678 is out here on tbe #77 cause I'm on it. Slippery floor almost made me fall. Not cool!!

[jajuan]

Fleets being homogonous is one thing but we are transferring same fleet type buses here. Bottom line there is no justification to send the #6800's to 74th. Hello!! 74th is getting new buses. It's like they are trying to PO us. Then they transfer 500-600 buses just to get all the rehabbed buses in one place when they will get that anyway in 6 months. Then they send 74th #6400's to FG instead of retiring them. That to me is the straw that breaks the camels back. Now the fleet is so screwed up I don't know how a wrecker knows where to take a bus. FG is not putting F stickers on the #6600's so far and I haven't seen many other garages do it either. They might have ran out of stickers, if you can believe that!! .This thing going on on the NW side has been going on for years but these latest transfers take it to the extreme. Like I have said many times, the only reason F got most of the new buses in the early 2000's is because they were forced to. That would never happen with free will. Expect more of the same. All #1000's is a real possibility in 2016.

Understandable that you're upset. But somehow being upset about what's happening with FG currently is leading some to ignore that 74th would not have had 1000s at all for the foreseeable future during the period that that series was being delivered brand new or any other series of bus for that matter because CTA had no plans to retire the 6000s any time soon prior to the February 2010 cuts. And the 6000s were as old or older than the 6400s currently are. The 6400s though are still going to get retired. It took unexpected budget cuts to get rid of the 6000s. That's a big difference that gets little acknowledgement. FG's having all retirement age buses is undeniably temporary one way or the other because those buses are slated to be retired. 74th wasn't being given that opportunity. They got a roster of all retirement age buses and were basically being told deal with it because initially those buses weren't going to be retired any time soon. I remember at the time how it got pointed out how the situation at the time was unfair to 74th and the riders that needed to use its assigned routes (without accusations of racism by the way). But a good number of folks on here were pretty much communicating a consensus amongst themselves that the 6000s were still good buses so 74th just needed to suck it up and anyone continuing to bring up the unfairness of that situation were getting thumbs down out of spite since Kevin hadn't yet removed the thumbing down option for unliked posts. The only reason 74th even got the initial 30 of its 1000s was because it had so many 6000s breaking down. And as I said it took an initially unexpected budget cut to clear it of the rest. Folks rolled with the punches though after voicing their dislike of what was being done to 74th. But now we have a situation where FG is undergoing a similar experience for a temporary period with almost everyone agreeing that that situation is not fair to FG, the temporary part of it not originally planned or meant to be 74th's experience, and we still get beat over the head that CTA is treating the whole of the northwest side as some unwanted stepchild despite FG's having all retirement age buses always meant to be temporary unlike 74th. But the south side and those who simply travel that part of town but not live there got told oh suck it up. Similar set of circumstances yet the reactions so vastly different.

[jajuan]

And as for the freedom of speech aspect. Yeah you get the freedom to say what's on your mind, but we need to be reminded that freedom of speech does not mean you get the freedom to everyone agreeing with or liking everything you say. Just as you get the freedom to say it, other's get the freedom to not like a particular thing you might say at a given instant.

[BusHunter]

Since we are back to stirring the pot, I originally did not say it was racism. But I did say it was a possibility. That might have changed after it hit the fan. But since we are comparing garages and service areas Englewood and Jackson Park has never had the oldest rail cars. You fail to acknowledge that. Your buddies on the NW side did though even back then. Another difference the #6300's were the newest #6000's, a comfort that we soon won't have on the north side. We're down to 1/4 of the newest fleet of post #6709's from 98 percent. Your buddies on the NW side shared those same buses that you were mired with, so we were in the same boat, plus the #6000's you got were rehabbed and Busjack has mentioned that a rehabbed bus is a new bus. The #6400's are unrehabbed. Soon you won't be sharing the 2000 era novas with us because you will have moved two generations ahead. I don't know how long 74th had all the #6000's, but Fg is working on a year with a year to come most likely. So two years. Can you say that? Sorry but the two don't compare.

Looking at the #6000's lifetime in service roster 74th only had an all #6000 fleet for 6-7 months. Sorry FG has just about done twice that and is slated to do 3 times that. But as usual you have overblown the facts.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

And as for the freedom of speech aspect. Yeah you get the freedom to say what's on your mind, but we need to be reminded that freedom of speech does not mean you get the freedom to everyone agreeing with or liking everything you say. Just as you get the freedom to say it, other's get the freedom to not like a particular thing you might say at a given instant.

Thank you (for this post and your post before this). It seems like almost every time I stray into the bus forum (on a site called Chicagobus.org I should probably be doing that more ) I see complaints about the northwest portion of Chicago having bad transit vehicles.

I don't ride buses that often, but when I do, I'm usually standing up, and from that point on a bus ride is a bus ride. And all CTA buses stop, start, get you from point A to point B, and get cut off by pricks driving taxis and cars (for you bus drivers on this forum, thank you for putting up with these guys). When you're standing and some person cuts the bus off, I don't think it matters how new the handrail you smash into when the driver brakes is, because it's a handrail, and it will hurt. Same thing for when you fall over. The floor might be a little bit older, but it's still a floor that's there and attached to a bus that is getting you where you need to go. And sure, the older buses might break down a little more, but not everything is invincible. I'm sure all of you guys have seen that almost brand new New Flyer articulated bus go up in flames a little while back. Anything can happen.

I apologize if I offend anyone. This is just my take on it.

[BusHunter]

I think they might intend on taking all the fg amber novas until 74th is complete amber novas we just haven't seen the complete swap yet. As fg inches closer to 80 amber buses left, I feel Chicago might come knocking with its novas next.

Looking at the rosters, 74th needs 24 amber buses to have an all amber destination fleet. FG only has 78 amber buses left, so if 74th does take those maybe this weekend Fg would only have 54 amber buses for Chicago, so they might be out of luck.

[artthouwill]

Since we are back to stirring the pot, I originally did not say it was racism. But I did say it was a possibility. That might have changed after it hit the fan. But since we are comparing garages and service areas Englewood and Jackson Park has never had the oldest rail cars. You fail to acknowledge that. Your buddies on the NW side did though even back then. Another difference the #6300's were the newest #6000's, a comfort that we soon won't have on the north side. We're down to 1/4 of the newest fleet of post #6709's from 98 percent. Your buddies on the NW side shared those same buses that you were mired with, so we were in the same boat, plus the #6000's you got were rehabbed and Busjack has mentioned that a rehabbed bus is a new bus. The #6400's are unrehabbed. Soon you won't be sharing the 2000 era novas with us because you will have moved two generations ahead. I don't know how long 74th had all the #6000's, but Fg is working on a year with a year to come most likely. So two years. Can you say that? Sorry but the two don't compare.

Englewood and Jackson Park never had the oldest railcars? Let's see/ When the Lake Dan Ryan had the 2000s and 2200f, Englewood and Jackson Park had the 6000s ()with NO A/C). When the newer 2400s came, the 2400s were shifted to Lake Dan Ryan service and the 2000s were given to Englewood Jackson Park. The 200s stayed there until the Green Line shutdown in 1994. When the Green Line reopened in 1996, all of the 2400s were moved there and stayed until the 5000s came.

I think the consensus is that iit is crazy that FG doesn't at least have New Flyer buses/ We all agree on that. We all agree that the Blue Line should;ve had some 5000s or at least some 3200s. Howeverm the issue is NOT race because those same Blue Line trains that serve the NW side also serve the West Side. Two of FG routes (85 and 91) also serve the WEst Side.

Also note that 74th and FG only has one downtown route each. Perhaps CTA didn't want a lot of those old buses downtown.

[andrethebusman]

Well bless FG's lucky stars! Are they finally getting some new equipment?

1105,1109,1273,1542,1561,1574

It's only six, but is this just temporary? I can see whatever comes to FG getting transferred to 74th for some 6400's and/or 6500's, whatever remains of the 6600's, or to send back some 6800's. We've been down this road before, when FG has some late 1000's, late 1100's and a mix of 1200's only to see them get shipped to 77th for the Novas there.

This would be the equivalent of a Cubs-Yankees-Dodgers trade. Dodgers send Matt Kemp to the Cubs temporarily so he may be sent to the Yankees so the Cubs can get three Minor Leaguers.

FG gets 1105,1109,1273,1542,1561 and 1574 from 77th to send them to 74th for 6400-6401,6403,6405-6407, for example. A three-way garage trade.

6400 at FG as of Fri 1/30 on 92. 6405, 6418, others?

[BusHunter]

6400 at FG as of Fri 1/30 on 92. 6405, 6418, others?

What ever happened with sending #6400 to Olive Harvey. Did they ever get a bus or two?

[BusHunter]

Englewood and Jackson Park never had the oldest railcars? Let's see/ When the Lake Dan Ryan had the 2000s and 2200f, Englewood and Jackson Park had the 6000s ()with NO A/C). When the newer 2400s came, the 2400s were shifted to Lake Dan Ryan service and the 2000s were given to Englewood Jackson Park. The 200s stayed there until the Green Line shutdown in 1994. When the Green Line reopened in 1996, all of the 2400s were moved there and stayed until the 5000s came.

I think the consensus is that iit is crazy that FG doesn't at least have New Flyer buses/ We all agree on that. We all agree that the Blue Line should;ve had some 5000s or at least some 3200s. Howeverm the issue is NOT race because those same Blue Line trains that serve the NW side also serve the West Side. Two of FG routes (85 and 91) also serve the WEst Side.

Also note that 74th and FG only has one downtown route each. Perhaps CTA didn't want a lot of those old buses downtown.

Probably one of the better stated points on here. But didn't W-NW have #6000's too up to the mid 80's. Then the ravenswood/evanston express/skokie swift has the oldest until finally just the evanston express in the early to mid 90's. The south side could claim to have the oldest with the #2000's, but weren't those also on the evanston express? Plus they didn't last past the green line rehab. Now we could say #2400's because of the Orange line, then you have me there. But they were the back up fleet not primary fleet. That's what's so crazy here, the old junk is the primary fleet!!

[Sam92]

Understandable that you're upset. But somehow being upset about what's happening with FG currently is leading some to ignore that 74th would not have had 1000s at all for the foreseeable future during the period that that series was being delivered brand new or any other series of bus for that matter because CTA had no plans to retire the 6000s any time soon prior to the February 2010 cuts. And the 6000s were as old or older than the 6400s currently are. The 6400s though are still going to get retired. It took unexpected budget cuts to get rid of the 6000s. That's a big difference that gets little acknowledgement. FG's having all retirement age buses is undeniably temporary one way or the other because those buses are slated to be retired. 74th wasn't being given that opportunity. They got a roster of all retirement age buses and were basically being told deal with it because initially those buses weren't going to be retired any time soon. I remember at the time how it got pointed out how the situation at the time was unfair to 74th and the riders that needed to use its assigned routes (without accusations of racism by the way). But a good number of folks on here were pretty much communicating a consensus amongst themselves that the 6000s were still good buses so 74th just needed to suck it up and anyone continuing to bring up the unfairness of that situation were getting thumbs down out of spite since Kevin hadn't yet removed the thumbing down option for unliked posts. The only reason 74th even got the initial 30 of its 1000s was because it had so many 6000s breaking down. And as I said it took an initially unexpected budget cut to clear it of the rest. Folks rolled with the punches though after voicing their dislike of what was being done to 74th. But now we have a situation where FG is undergoing a similar experience for a temporary period without almost everyone agreeing that that situation is not fair to FG, the temporary part of it not originally planned or meant to be 74th's experience, and we still get beat over the head that CTA is treating the whole of the northwest side as some unwanted stepchild despite FG's having all retirement age buses always meant to be temporary unlike 74th. But the south side and those who simply travel that part of town but not live there got told oh suck it up. Similar set of circumstances yet the reactions so vastly different.

on the subject of 6000's being at 74th, I remember it was so bad that 103rd had to trade some of their #1000's for some #6000's back like 2-3 years before the retirement. I was a feshman in high shool so like 2007-2008. maybe the same will happen with FG