More Bus Moves

[Aiden Tabucic]

13 hours ago, Busjack said:

Again, that has been posted. Do not expect others to do your work.

Honestly ima go search for this thx anyways 

[BusHunter]

21 hours ago, Busjack said:

Yes, and for that reason, nothing is going to happen at FG (except token moves to take care of emergency situations) until the 8325s and electric buses show up. Unless the other garages figure out some way to use the artics more effectively, there aren't buses free to move.

I just don't get how those #6400's can keep moving some will be celebrating 17 and a half years old. I think when all these buses come in they will retire the #6400's. FG will probably just get nf's.

[Busjack]

5 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

I just don't get how those #6400's can keep moving some will be celebrating 17 and a half years old. I think when all these buses come in they will retire the #6400's. FG will probably just get nf's.

Among other things, I thought at the time that it was a con on the feds in that the CMAQ application said that the electric buses would replace 17 year old buses with high emissions. Now, it no longer does.

But CTA has kept stuff, like some MAN Americanas, about as long.

[andrethebusman]

Historically, CTA has kept many series for around 20 years. This is far from unusual.

[Mr.cta85]

Earlier today I saw 1366 or 67 on route 67. 

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

24 minutes ago, Mr.cta85 said:

Earlier today I saw 1366 or 67 on route 67. 

That was bus 1366.

[jajuan]

19 hours ago, Mr.cta85 said:

Earlier today I saw 1366 or 67 on route 67. 

 

19 hours ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

That was bus 1366.

Yeah 74th gained both 1366 and 1367 last weekend. See RJL6000's post reporting it here Mr.cta85. 

[Aiden Tabucic]

On 4/8/2018 at 8:49 AM, jajuan said:

 

Yeah 74th gained both 1366 and 1367 last weekend. See RJL6000's post reporting it here Mr.cta85. 

Honestly When do these rosters get updated 

[jajuan]

1 hour ago, Aiden Tabucic said:

Honestly When do these rosters get updated 

Spring, summer, fall, and winter with minor tweaks in between. Each season has a different service level need among the garages. The biggest roster changes happen typically at the summer pick and fall pick starts due primarily to CPS school service needs and the beach service needs changing. When the rehabs of the 4000 series artics finally start there's a potential for roster changes there as different buses undergo rehab, although the artic assignments being reduced back to down to Kedzie, 103rd, and North Park after Chicago like 77th showed it couldn't figure out how to use artics efficiently may cover that front. 

[Mr.cta85]

just a quick question for you guys. But with the new 95th south terminal opening, do you think 103rd will get the remaining Novas? You know how cta like to show off their new equipment rather if its with a new train station or in this instance a whole new terminal. 

 

[Busjack]

1 minute ago, Mr.cta85 said:

just a quick question for you guys. But with the new 95th south terminal opening, do you think 103rd will get the remaining Novas? You know how cta like to show off their new equipment rather if its with a new train station or in this instance a whole new terminal. 

 

Nope. FG is short and 103rd already has a surplus of artics. Basically, CTA is limiting garages to 2 series, to the extent possible.

Maybe it does on the 2019 proposed contract, depending on which company wins it.

The real question is whether the new layout will facilitate artics.

[Aiden Tabucic]

4 hours ago, Busjack said:

Nope. FG is short and 103rd already has a surplus of artics. Basically, CTA is limiting garages to 2 series, to the extent possible.

Maybe it does on the 2019 proposed contract, depending on which company wins it.

The real question is whether the new layout will facilitate artics.

FG Is short flyers to lowkey 

[jajuan]

5 hours ago, Aiden Tabucic said:

FG Is short flyers to lowkey 

Sorry but no. This isn't about CTA assigning buses to fit an enthusiast's specific wishlists to see any one model at a given garage. It's about whether CTA keeps enough operable buses assigned at the garages to fit the schedule needs for each of the garage's assigned routes. 

[andrethebusman]

Artics have always been a funny issue. When CTA first got their first artics in 1980, they were used as "unassigned spares" for at least a year, being tried out on practically every route out of every garage. Then they finally settled on there routes - 99-Stevenson Express, 6-Jeffery Express, and 22-Clark. When the 7100's showed up, they went on basically the same routes, just adding 151-Sheridan and 147-Outer Drive Express. Attempts to run them on other routes have been made from time to time, such as on 15-Jeffery Local and 28-Stony island on weekends for one pick, and of course 79 and 66, but in the end the artics have pretty much stayed where they were initially, on routes with long non-stop portions for the most part. On local routes, the dwell times at stops are just too long compared with standard buses, and unless you make the schedule almost walking-speed, endless delays are almost inevitable.

This has also been shown to be true in other cities too. Most cities with large fleets use them on express routes of one sort or another. Places like Atlanta and Portland which once had artics gave up on them when the express routes were eliminated by rail extensions. Milwaukee had 40 artics years ago, but never replaced the original fleet when it was discovered they were being used two to three hours a day on Freeway Flyers, and were nearly impossible to run anywhere else because they were so slow loading. New York used theirs on "Select Bus" routes which are prepaid BRT-style runs with stops every half mile or so.

CTA 4300's were bought for a specific reason - Dan Ryan replacement routes. They worked very well there. Once the Ryan was back in service, the 4300's became excess baggage.

[jajuan]

1 hour ago, andrethebusman said:

Artics have always been a funny issue. When CTA first got their first artics in 1980, they were used as "unassigned spares" for at least a year, being tried out on practically every route out of every garage. Then they finally settled on there routes - 99-Stevenson Express, 6-Jeffery Express, and 22-Clark. When the 7100's showed up, they went on basically the same routes, just adding 151-Sheridan and 147-Outer Drive Express. Attempts to run them on other routes have been made from time to time, such as on 15-Jeffery Local and 28-Stony island on weekends for one pick, and of course 79 and 66, but in the end the artics have pretty much stayed where they were initially, on routes with long non-stop portions for the most part. On local routes, the dwell times at stops are just too long compared with standard buses, and unless you make the schedule almost walking-speed, endless delays are almost inevitable.

This has also been shown to be true in other cities too. Most cities with large fleets use them on express routes of one sort or another. Places like Atlanta and Portland which once had artics gave up on them when the express routes were eliminated by rail extensions. Milwaukee had 40 artics years ago, but never replaced the original fleet when it was discovered they were being used two to three hours a day on Freeway Flyers, and were nearly impossible to run anywhere else because they were so slow loading. New York used theirs on "Select Bus" routes which are prepaid BRT-style runs with stops every half mile or so.

CTA 4300's were bought for a specific reason - Dan Ryan replacement routes. They worked very well there. Once the Ryan was back in service, the 4300's became excess baggage.

Yeah I remember when being a small kid of about 5 or 6 and seeing artics for the first time and being mesmerized by how big they seemed compared to standard buses. My first ride ever on one was on the 66 believe it or not. I used to see them quite a bit on 94 since in those days it was assigned to Archer before going to Kedzie for a while starting in 1986. 

[Busjack]

9 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

Artics have always been a funny issue. When CTA first got their first artics in 1980, they were used as "unassigned spares" for at least a year, being tried out on practically every route out of every garage. Then they finally settled on there routes - 99-Stevenson Express, 6-Jeffery Express, and 22-Clark. When the 7100's showed up, they went on basically the same routes, just adding 151-Sheridan and 147-Outer Drive Express. Attempts to run them on other routes have been made from time to time, such as on 15-Jeffery Local and 28-Stony island on weekends for one pick, and of course 79 and 66, but in the end the artics have pretty much stayed where they were initially, on routes with long non-stop portions for the most part. On local routes, the dwell times at stops are just too long compared with standard buses, and unless you make the schedule almost walking-speed, endless delays are almost inevitable.

This has also been shown to be true in other cities too. Most cities with large fleets use them on express routes of one sort or another. Places like Atlanta and Portland which once had artics gave up on them when the express routes were eliminated by rail extensions. Milwaukee had 40 artics years ago, but never replaced the original fleet when it was discovered they were being used two to three hours a day on Freeway Flyers, and were nearly impossible to run anywhere else because they were so slow loading. New York used theirs on "Select Bus" routes which are prepaid BRT-style runs with stops every half mile or so.

CTA 4300's were bought for a specific reason - Dan Ryan replacement routes. They worked very well there. Once the Ryan was back in service, the 4300's became excess baggage.

If I were running  CTA (and obviously I'm nof), I would find a way to sell 100 artics and use the money to buy 100 40 ft. buses. But, from what you say, I might not find any takers.

[jajuan]

19 hours ago, Busjack said:

If I were running  CTA (and obviously I'm nof), I would find a way to sell 100 artics and use the money to buy 100 40 ft. buses. But, from what you say, I might not find any takers.

It definitely brings up the question if CTA will stay at just over 300 artics when it comes time to start replacing artics when the 4000s come up for retirement.

[Sam92]

21 hours ago, Busjack said:

If I were running  CTA (and obviously I'm nof), I would find a way to sell 100 artics and use the money to buy 100 40 ft. buses. But, from what you say, I might not find any takers.

Going off what Andre is stating,  Only way to make them worth the money spent while we still have 300 artics would be to reintroduce X-service along with tweak the stopping pattern to the remaining routes that still use them currently.  That was my main reason for advocating bi-directional #26 service.  Not only does it give a quicker link to downtown but it would also give reason to cut back  some #6 service south of 63rd since the south end is what really fouls up the #6's performance with the 2 left turns at 67the/Stony Island and 71St/South Shore along.  That Hyde park segment of the route could also shed a stop or two to help keep in line with what Andre says.  On the north #147 can use the same help cause a lot of stops on Sheridan are pretty close together as well. 

[Busjack]

59 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Going off what Andre is stating,  Only way to make them worth the money spent while we still have 300 artics would be to reintroduce X-service along with tweak the stopping pattern to the remaining routes that still use them currently. 

The way it is sounding, the only way it works is to expand the size of the bus stops. I don't know if the parking deal prevents that (i.e., put in X4 or X8). As previously noted, X9 and X49 being out of 74th (mostly 74th in the case of 49), which doesn't handle artics, puts a fly in that ointment.

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

The way it is sounding, the only way it works is to expand the size of the bus stops. I don't know if the parking deal prevents that (i.e., put in X4 or X8). As previously noted, X9 and X49 being out of 74th (mostly 74th in the case of 49), which doesn't handle artics, puts a fly in that ointment.

Well jujuans observation of the X9's effect on thinning passenger loads supports that Ashland could do without but looking at other routes,  I can see western,  Cicero,  Chicago,  north ave,  79th,  Irving Park,  Kimball(?) benefitting from such changes even if it started off as rush only initially.  This also could possibly attract some people back from uber because even though you wouldn't get door to door service on demand,  the return of quicker cross-town travel for $2.50 vs the cost of an uber could be enough. Of course Irving Park would have to be taken up partially by NP for this. 

[Busjack]

9 hours ago, Sam92 said:

I can see western,  Cicero,  Chicago,  north ave,  79th,  Irving Park,  Kimball(?) benefitting from such changes even if it started off as rush only initially. 

Depends on what are "such changes." If artics, which was your original premise on "Only way to make them worth the money spent while we still have 300 artics would be to reintroduce X-service," they have already struck out on 66 and 79, and the current plan is to make 66 electric. If the real problem is dwell time, you have to reduce it (hence my suggestion of bigger bus stops) . Only thing accomplished by making the routes limited stop would be to slightly reduce the dwell time by reducing stops, but there is going to be a bigger crowd at each stop. Maybe one way to process the crowd more quickly is put several Ventra machines on each bus (sort of like the Go Lane) or prepaid boarding (can't afford the necessary Customer Assistants).

I still say "sell the buses." :Looks like a similar problem as getting something out of the Optimas, and CTA eventually sold half.

[RJL6000]

What this recent part of this discussion now implies is:

Don't anticipate the CTA to order any articulated buses - new or used - in the foreseeable future. As a matter of fact, the CTA can do almost entirely with 40-footers for the foreseeable future.

[Busjack]

21 minutes ago, RJL6000 said:

What this recent part of this discussion now implies is:

Don't anticipate the CTA to order any articulated buses - new or used - in the foreseeable future. As a matter of fact, the CTA can do almost entirely with 40-footers for the foreseeable future.

The budget (if it can be believed) is 600 40 foot buses in the next 5 years.

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

Depends on what are "such changes." If artics, which was your original premise on "Only way to make them worth the money spent while we still have 300 artics would be to reintroduce X-service," they have already struck out on 66 and 79, and the current plan is to make 66 electric. If the real problem is dwell time, you have to reduce it (hence my suggestion of bigger bus stops) . Only thing accomplished by making the routes limited stop would be to slightly reduce the dwell time by reducing stops, but there is going to be a bigger crowd at each stop. Maybe one way to process the crowd more quickly is put several Ventra machines on each bus (sort of like the Go Lane) or prepaid boarding (can't afford the necessary Customer Assistants).

I still say "sell the buses." :Looks like a similar problem as getting something out of the Optimas, and CTA eventually sold half.

I mean there'd still be local service to handle the crowds that don't want to walk to an express stop so the crowds wouldn't be too much bigger.  Plus yeah the struck out on 79Th/Chicago as local routes but who's to say limited stops wouldn't at least make a more accurate schedule 

[Busjack]

59 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

I mean there'd still be local service to handle the crowds that don't want to walk to an express stop so the crowds wouldn't be too much bigger.  Plus yeah the struck out on 79Th/Chicago as local routes but who's to say limited stops wouldn't at least make a more accurate schedule 

Again, limited stops are being made a panacea by commenters for problems other than for which they were intended. First it was Uber, now you are trying to make them justify keeping on 100 articulated buses that CTA management itself acknowledged (in the FOIA response) are not needed.