February System Pick

[MetroShadow]

Yesterday I went to the uniform store at Jeff Pk. to get some Pace uniforms and badges made. In the store I ran into one of my buddies from FG, he tells me of the changes happening next month. He told me that its possible with all the route shuffling due to Archer's closing that FG may get the #76 Diversey back. In addition he also tells me #74 Fullerton may also be transferred to FG.

Now that actually makes sense...take the northern parts of C and bring it up to FG would free up space. Replace the buses for the X80 and give it to the 76 and a few more to the 74, can allow for displaced A routes to end up there.

[T8H5307A]

He told me that its possible with all the route shuffling due to Archer's closing that FG may get the #76 Diversey back. In addition he also tells me #74 Fullerton may also be transferred to FG.

Forest Glen will have some runs on the 74. The 76 is still all Chicago

[jajuan]

According to what I read on the budget the service frequency will decrease even in the rush period. To quote them 'we will try and impact the least amount of customers". Based on that any frequency cuts in the rush would be not as extreme but sounds like there will be cuts. According to the budget, they will run 18 percent less bus service and I believe 9 percent less rail service overall. (in total) As far as the signs stating that all local routes running with x routes (like #80) will not be cut in the rush, they are saying the service frequency cuts will be in the off peak only on those routes. The rush service will most likely be increased to a frequency level that parallels the surrounding service levels after the cuts.

The way I understood the service change info on the CTA website as far as the locals where the X routes currently operate go, is that the frequency reductions instituted to shift those buses to the expresses will stand for sure and in some instances on all of them could go up to the 20 min intervals mentioned, when first announcing the 2010 budget to resolve the funding shortfalls, because some of them already operate operate on up to 15 min intervals on those hours that the respective express route isn't running. I didn't understand it to mean that they were increasing anything in the rush periods though. I understood it the same as you did on the rush periods also getting some reductions but not as bad because of the fact that a number of rush hour only routes are on the frequency reduction list. Thus my view that the local counterparts for the X routes won't likely see rush increases. Also if the rush periods will also see reductions that will answer the question from Busjack and others of how the reductions also will account for taking enough buses out of service to scrap the 6000s.

[BusHunter]

The way I understood the service change info on the CTA website as far as the locals where the X routes currently operate go, is that the frequency reductions instituted to shift those buses to the expresses will stand for sure and in some instances on all of them could go up to the 20 min intervals mentioned, when first announcing the 2010 budget to resolve the funding shortfalls, because some of them already operate operate on up to 15 min intervals on those hours that the respective express route isn't running. I didn't understand it to mean that they were increasing anything in the rush periods though. I understood it the same as you did on the rush periods also getting some reductions but not as bad because of the fact that a number of rush hour only routes are on the frequency reduction list. Thus my view that the local counterparts for the X routes won't likely see rush increases. Also if the rush periods will also see reductions that will answer the question from Busjack and others of how the reductions also will account for taking enough buses out of service to scrap the 6000s.

If the #80 stays as is in the rush, there's going to be massive overcrowding on it and the #49's and #55's. There's just not enough service on it currently in the rush. It would probably be good as a rider to stay away from those routes if they do cut there x counterparts. You'll have all the same riders at rush with 3/4 of the service missing. As far as the sharing of routes between garages, i'm starting to wonder if part of the reason there going to share routes (especially the long ones) is because they are foreseeing a possible shortage of buses (if they remove all the #6000's) and this way they can fill a possible shortage from two places versus one. It's weird how some garages (74th, Kedzie and NP) seem to be having a bigger duty to fill and others like Fg seem to have the same or less.

[Busjack]

If the #80 stays as is in the rush, there's going to be massive overcrowding on it and the #49's and #55's. There's just not enough service on it currently in the rush. It would probably be good as a rider to stay away from those routes if they do cut there x counterparts. You'll have all the same riders at rush with 3/4 of the service missing. As far as the sharing of routes between garages, i'm starting to wonder if part of the reason there going to share routes (especially the long ones) is because they are foreseeing a possible shortage of buses (if they remove all the #6000's) and this way they can fill a possible shortage from two places versus one. It's weird how some garages (74th, Kedzie and NP) seem to be having a bigger duty to fill and others like Fg seem to have the same or less.

To clarify, I'm not making any prediction on whether underlying routes might be somewhat beefed up if the X is canceled, although I think that they must be to some degree. My only point is that other routes that don't have an X may also see frequency cuts, including in the rush hour.

74th getting more routes is understandable, in that it is losing 3 X routes. As I previously mentioned, probably also 77th as it is losing two.

I previously figured that since FG was losing X80, it would pick up other NP or C work. NP, even though not losing X routes, probably will lose frequency.

K is understandable, since several Archer routes were once there, and hence the clear statements about what it was getting, and the somewhat less definitive statements of what it might split with 74 or NP.

[BusHunter]

To clarify, I'm not making any prediction on whether underlying routes might be somewhat beefed up if the X is canceled, although I think that they must be to some degree. My only point is that other routes that don't have an X may also see frequency cuts, including in the rush hour.

74th getting more routes is understandable, in that it is losing 3 X routes. As I previously mentioned, probably also 77th as it is losing two.

I previously figured that since FG was losing X80, it would pick up other NP or C work. NP, even though not losing X routes, probably will lose frequency.

K is understandable, since several Archer routes were once there, and hence the clear statements about what it was getting, and the somewhat less definitive statements of what it might split with 74 or NP.

Good points, but figuring service frequency cuts I would think places like FG or 103rd would actually have a reduction in buses where Kedzie would increase or at least stay the same. With Fg not to close to many of NP's lakefront service routes.(anything east of Western) what could they pick up? I would think they'd be better aligned to pick up or share something from Chicago like the #74 TDH mentioned. i wonder if there isolation from the center of the city could possibly play a key.

[artthouwill]

I will miss the X9 and the X49, but I also will be glad that all of the soon to be former Archer routes will once again see New Flyer buses. For some, this does NOT mean the elimination of Novas, but at least some variety. With that, gone are the days when you could guess which bus route was coming or going based on the type of bus or bus number.

[qwantae]

I will miss the X9 and the X49, but I also will be glad that all of the soon to be former Archer routes will once again see New Flyer buses. For some, this does NOT mean the elimination of Novas, but at least some variety. With that, gone are the days when you could guess which bus route was coming or going based on the type of bus or bus number.

Since Kedzie gets 62- Archer and if some Novas don't go to Kedzie then Novas will be no longer operating on Route-62 Archer, that would be odd. Yes, it will be awesome to see NF 1000s back to former Archer routes, but I will miss the Novas on 62, plus 21 and 60.

[Busjack]

Good points, but figuring service frequency cuts I would think places like FG or 103rd would actually have a reduction in buses where Kedzie would increase or at least stay the same.

I finally comprehended that one. If you mean actual buses, no, because CTA is removing about 280 buses and about 250 spaces of storage capacity.

Hence, I beleive that work will be shifted to the two, although, for the reason you state, it is harder to figure out what it would be.

[trainman8119]

Is Archer so bad that it needs to be shut down ? I know it goes back to streetcar days, but is the end result of this closing a real good idea when more facilities for storage and maintenance are needed ??? Lots of deadheading going on right now...probably more than there should be. This certainly won't help. I would still think that the long term benefit would be replacement (once/if there is $$$$) rather than total closure.

[BusHunter]

I finally comprehended that one. If you mean actual buses, no, because CTA is removing about 280 buses and about 250 spaces of storage capacity.

Hence, I beleive that work will be shifted to the two, although, for the reason you state, it is harder to figure out what it would be.

Your saying no there will not be any less buses at fg or 103rd. Based on your theory, there cannot be any more buses at Kedzie because the closing of archer and the 280 buses basically cancel each other out. If we base the cuts as on 20 minute intervals versus 15 minutes midday that's roughly 1 bus cut per service hour. 2 for most east/west service and the north south service per route (not including any feeder service cuts)at Fg. I figure that alone could cut 20 there and the #X80 being removed 15-20 more. Maybe 40 or 50 buses cut if you figure at least the same amount gets cut for the rush. Put 5-8 buses on #74 and I see a 30/40 bus loss at least. Maybe what some places lose some places will gain like those 30/40 lost at FG end up at Kedzie. On another side of this same topic i wonder if we will see any early retirements of rail equipment with less frequency on the rails. Some of the beefed up service such as the UIC bound Blue line trains in the rush might be on the chopping block also.

[Busjack]

Your saying no there will not be any less buses at fg or 103rd. Based on your theory, there cannot be any more buses at Kedzie because the closing of archer and the 280 buses basically cancel each other out.

Yes, basically my theory is that the remaining garages or yards get about 250 buses each. Other than my surmises, based on that and which garages have room because X routes are being cut from them, I can't go much further. I agree with trainman about more deadheading, but, apparently, so be it, even though the assignment of the 145s and 148s to Kedzie now involves deadheading that would be eliminated by assigning them to NP (assuming that Wilson is the end of the line), and thus something else from NP gets assigned to FG.

With regard to L cars, the question is whether they will be cutting rush hour frequency, and, if so, whether there will be longer trains. There may be lines where 6 car trains can go to 8, although which ones don't come to my mind at the moment (the Green Line seems too infrequent now, but that may be a possibility on the Harlem-Ashland/63 route). However, as in the case of Krambles implying that there would still be 2000s to replace after the 3200s were received, but in fact there were not, maybe you are right that the attrition of 2200s may be quicker than implied by the 5000 delivery schedule.

[sw4400]

Yes, basically my theory is that the remaining garages or yards get about 250 buses each.

Elaborate on your theory, Busjack... How can each of the remaining garages(Chicago, Kedzie, North Park, 74th, 77th and 103rd) get 250 buses each when Archer has a capacity of 290?

[BusExpert32]

Elaborate on your theory, Busjack... How can each of the remaining garages(Chicago, Kedzie, North Park, 74th, 77th and 103rd) get 250 buses each when Archer has a capacity of 290?

It's 250 each from the reminaining buses after the Flxibles are retired- not just the ones from Archer.

[Busjack]

It's 250 each from the reminaining buses after the Flxibles are retired- not just the ones from Archer.

Yep, that's what I meant. Each garage supposedly has a capacity of 250 and each will supposedly have 250 when this is done, for a total of 1750, more or less. I'm not implying from where they would come. Maybe I should have said "have" instead of "get."

[rmadisonwi]

Archer Garage does not have a capacity of 290.

[Chicago13]

Archer Garage does not have a capacity of 290.

Well actually, according to Bill Vandervoort's site, Archer does have a capcity of 290.

[busfan2847]

Well actually, according to Bill Vandervoort's site, Archer does have a capcity of 290.

I reckon at present there are only 244 allocated to Archer (30 Opus, 214 Nova)

[rmadisonwi]

I didn't realize that websites were the final authority on how many buses a garage could fit. Silly me.

Archer Garage is physically smaller than Kedzie Garage, and it doesn't have the room to park buses outside that Kedzie does (granted, by taking up some parking, and the apron in front of the garage).

Kedzie Garage has 292 buses assigned, and can't come close to fitting them all inside. Explain to me how Archer Garage can have a higher capacity than Kedzie.

[Busjack]

Explain to me how Archer Garage can have a higher capacity than Kedzie.

I guess you explain that to the moderator. However, in 3 weeks, it will be moot, anyway.

[jajuan]

Yes, basically my theory is that the remaining garages or yards get about 250 buses each. Other than my surmises, based on that and which garages have room because X routes are being cut from them, I can't go much further. I agree with trainman about more deadheading, but, apparently, so be it, even though the assignment of the 145s and 148s to Kedzie now involves deadheading that would be eliminated by assigning them to NP (assuming that Wilson is the end of the line), and thus something else from NP gets assigned to FG.

With regard to L cars, the question is whether they will be cutting rush hour frequency, and, if so, whether there will be longer trains. There may be lines where 6 car trains can go to 8, although which ones don't come to my mind at the moment (the Green Line seems too infrequent now, but that may be a possibility on the Harlem-Ashland/63 route). However, as in the case of Krambles implying that there would still be 2000s to replace after the 3200s were received, but in fact there were not, maybe you are right that the attrition of 2200s may be quicker than implied by the 5000 delivery schedule.

One question, where was it said that NP was getting all of 145 and 148 again. The last I saw it was only generically stated that NP was getting 'some of Kedzie's N Lake Shore work' which could still mean some sharing there as well since no specifics were given of how it would be divvied up. With the reported sharing of routes between NP and K and NP and 74th, which in itself is a pickup in work because I don't remember it being said that NP was giving up anything, I don't see NP being able to assume complete assignment of those two and still be able to handle 135, 136, 144, 146 and 147 too in any kind of rush hour scenario despite frequency decreases.

[rideonrulez]

One question, where was it said that NP was getting all of 145 and 148 again. The last I saw it was only generically stated that NP was getting 'some of Kedzie's N Lake Shore work' which could still mean some sharing there as well since no specifics were given of how it would be divvied up. With the reported sharing of routes between NP and K and NP and 74th, which in itself is a pickup in work because I don't remember it being said that NP was giving up anything, I don't see NP being able to assume complete assignment of those two and still be able to handle 135, 136, 144, 146 and 147 too in any kind of rush hour scenario despite frequency decreases.

North Park is giving up some of the Evanston stuff to Forest Glen.

[jajuan]

North Park is giving up some of the Evanston stuff to Forest Glen.

Ok and that still does not cover a complete reassignment of two N Lake Shore routes, rather than a partial assignment of runs, because the Evanston service is already on 15-20 headways most of the time which means they will be getting bumped to 20-30 minute headways come Feb 7 and 8 (remember only the 97 has Sunday/holiday service which itself is already 30 intervals).

[jajuan]

CTA has more specific info on the upcoming cuts posted on the website. You guys won't believe this, but morning rush wait times on a lot of routes are going to be as high as 20 minutes on quite a number of routes depending on the time within the AM rush period I'm assuming. A lot of routes are showing 6-18 min, 7-18 min, 7-20 min or 8-20 min AM rush intervals. So depending on the time of the morning rush hour, it's not going to be pretty in the morning either. PM rush times I saw in general had maximum 15 minute intervals with 20 minute intervals during those times being in general on what's considered lighter service before the cuts come. We already knew that the off peak hours were going to get ugly but rush hour, AM rush at the very least, might be getting ugly too likely in the earliest part of the rush and the tail end of it. Another interesting tidbit is they mention midday frequency changes for 1 and 2, but they're currently rush hour only service routes. 3, 4, 9, 20, 49, 53A, 54, 55 and 80 are listed to get weekday interval increases to account for the X routes they parallel being eliminated even though I thought it was just X9, X49, X55 and X80 that got increased service a few months back in return for those respective locals being reduced during the service times of the express runs.

[New Flyer]

People need to call their respective alderman to complain I've sent e-mails to Jessie Jackson Jr, and Bobby Rush, this is not going to be pretty especially when the weather gets bad. Ask Toni Preckwinkle why she hasn't said anything, 3 oof those routes run through her ward, the x3,x4,x55.

It would help if someone out there couild get a copy of the new schedules so they can be posted on this site to get the info out to the public and the media before its to late.