4300/4330-series DE60LF/D60LF - Updates

[Sam92]

Rereading this post by BusHunter, some things jumped out at me. First, the bus was going northbound on Cicero at Armitage. The correct answer would have been to take a SB Cicero bus to North Ave, then take a WB North Ave bus to Menard (5800W). It is possible that this operator has never driven the 73 Armitage or 72 North for that matter. That is why I mentioned route training in an earlier post. It seems a new driver might get one day (if that) of training on a given route, but if you are an extra board driver, you could wind up anywhere. For instance, a rookie driver out of Chicago Garage could see a lot of action on Madison, Chicago Ave, Cicero, and Pulaski Ave, then one day wind up on the 65 Grand. Let's suppose this day they have to pull out of the Garage and pick up the route going eastbound from Chicago & Grand going to Navy Pier. Then going WB on route, they get to Grand and Homan. Anyone familiar with that area knows that you have to turn left, go under viaduct, and turn right to continue on Grand. if you keep straight and not turn left, that street becomes Homan. If that driver misses that turn, now that driver is driving the 82 and may not be aware of it since there are bus stops along Homan. South siders who drive out of a south side garage should be familiar with that territory, but if based on seniority they get bounced west or north, they will have problems if they have never or rarely been in those parts of town. ,

Back to the topic at hand, my guess is the bus involved in the accident was a J14? To the east of the garage along the bridge at 103rd is a trucking company (I believe). To the north of the 103rd garage, there are trucks there, accessible by a service road that runs west of the garage. Also many trucks are coming from the northbound Bishop ford at the 103rd st exit as well as trucks coming from Doty Rd East. Also traffic travels at a high rate of speed through this area, as there is really nothing around there. Can't tell rrom the pic if this accident happend on 103rd or as the bus was turning into the garage area.

They say the driver was returning from runs on the 6 Jackson Park Express in the articles... So that means he must have gotten hit while making a left into the garage

[BusHunter]

Rereading this post by BusHunter, some things jumped out at me. First, the bus was going northbound on Cicero at Armitage. The correct answer would have been to take a SB Cicero bus to North Ave, then take a WB North Ave bus to Menard (5800W). It is possible that this operator has never driven the 73 Armitage or 72 North for that matter. That is why I mentioned route training in an earlier post. It seems a new driver might get one day (if that) of training on a given route, but if you are an extra board driver, you could wind up anywhere. For instance, a rookie driver out of Chicago Garage could see a lot of action on Madison, Chicago Ave, Cicero, and Pulaski Ave, then one day wind up on the 65 Grand. Let's suppose this day they have to pull out of the Garage and pick up the route going eastbound from Chicago & Grand going to Navy Pier. Then going WB on route, they get to Grand and Homan. Anyone familiar with that area knows that you have to turn left, go under viaduct, and turn right to continue on Grand. if you keep straight and not turn left, that street becomes Homan. If that driver misses that turn, now that driver is driving the 82 and may not be aware of it since there are bus stops along Homan. South siders who drive out of a south side garage should be familiar with that territory, but if based on seniority they get bounced west or north, they will have problems if they have never or rarely been in those parts of town. ,

Well the customer was on the bus south of North Ave. and was still traveling north when he got to Armitage. The operator had thought he wanted the Menard's store, which would seem to indicate she didn't know there was one on North Ave. either. When she discovered Home Depot at Armitage and discovered he didn't want to go to Menard's, the store, she told him the #73 would take him to Menard the street, which it don't. I guess it's no worse than a customer asking at Jeff Pk how does he get to Foster and Western and the #81W operator tells him to go over by the #92 bay at 10-10:30 at night on a saturday night. I guess he didn't know the service stopped running earlier than 10.

[BusHunter]

They say the driver was returning from runs on the 6 Jackson Park Express in the articles... So that means he must have gotten hit while making a left into the garage

The Sun-Times has a few short video clips of the accident. http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/20992480-418/cta-bus-driver-critically-injured-in-crash-with-dump-truck.html I didn't know the dump truck was a full size one, luckily it didn't appear to be carrying a load or the injuries/wreckage would have been much worse.

[Busjack]

The Sun-Times has a few short video clips of the accident. http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/20992480-418/cta-bus-driver-critically-injured-in-crash-with-dump-truck.html I didn't know the dump truck was a full size one, luckily it didn't appear to be carrying a load or the injuries/wreckage would have been much worse.

First one that indicated that the truck took the whole front of the bus out.

Looks like Gilbert Trucking (or whatever) better have a pretty large liability insurance policy.

[artthouwill]

Either the bus driver misjudged the speed and distance of the truck or the truck driver was really speeding, especially coming down off of that bridge. Perhaps a combination of both

[RJL6000]

#4300 bus assignments (last updated 12/22/13):

103rd Garage

#4300 - #4322 (23 total)

Kedzie Garage

#4324 - #4338 (15 total)

77th Garage

#4339 - #4377 (39 total)

Chicago Garage

#4378 - #4399 (22 total)

Out of service / Long-term hold:

#4323 (1 total)

[MetroShadow]

Re: Chicago Garage -- If Bus Tracker has told me much of anything, is that right now (at 1600 hours), they're all covered by artics on the 66 (and I do not believe those are interlined either).

[BusHunter]

Re: Chicago Garage -- If Bus Tracker has told me much of xanything, is that right now (at 1600 hours), they're all covered by artics on the 66 (and I do not believe those are interlined either).

I wonder if their using the same amount of buses. 77th when it ran 40 foot buses on 79th could run as many as 33 buses in the rush. I need to do another count now that it's artic just to see if service has been cut. Capacity versus Quantity.

[MetroShadow]

I wonder if their using the same amount of buses. 77th when it ran 40 foot buses on 79th could run as many as 33 buses in the rush. I need to do another count now that it's artic just to see if service has been cut. Capacity versus Quantity.

I've seen several of 103rd's 4000's as well, in addition to the 4300's. Not sure if it's holiday-related or otherwise...

[Busjack]

I've seen several of 103rd's 4000's as well, in addition to the 4300's. Not sure if it's holiday-related or otherwise...

pace2322 (who works at 103rd) said earlier that the unwrapped 4000s were transferred to C about a week ago.

[geneking7320]

Re: Chicago Garage -- If Bus Tracker has told me much of anything, is that right now (at 1600 hours), they're all covered by artics on the 66 (and I do not believe those are interlined either).

I'm a living witness - I was at Chicago and Wabash for dinner this afternoon around 4:15pm and all the buses I saw were 43XX's.

[jajuan]

I wonder if their using the same amount of buses. 77th when it ran 40 foot buses on 79th could run as many as 33 buses in the rush. I need to do another count now that it's artic just to see if service has been cut. Capacity versus Quantity.

It's about the same on both routes. I know there's an impulse to think they'd change the number of buses in place because of higher capacity buses now being used, but they haven't. The routes are operating with the same headways as when they were operated with 40 foot buses, meaning the counts are about the same. Sam92 even voiced his opinion that 77th should have had more when the artic count at 77th was still just under 60 buses because of 79th using up about 30-plus depending on the time of day and leaving about 30 max available to spread out among the 2, 8 and 77th's other busier routes. Now they have even less to spread around outside of the 79 because of the recent transfer of maybe 15 to 20 to Chicago Garage. The whole idea of implementing articulated buses on a route to reduce the number of buses serving that route died with Huberman's departure from CTA to head CPS and was pretty much never more than fantasy since it never got implemented. Why it still seems to keep coming up in discussion as a possibility when there's never been any evidence that it ever will be and years after he left is quite interesting.

By the way, this isn't the first time the 66 had artics that were regular service and not supplements. I used to see artics here and there on the route during the ealiest days of the MAN 7000s and 7100s. I even have a memory of riding on one on the 66 when I was a kid. That ride happened to be my first ride ever on a CTA artic which is kind of surprising if you consider most of my childhood spanned the 80s and the earliest part of my childhood my family lived along the 94 S California route, which in approximately the first half of the 80s was assigned to Archer Garage before its assignment to Kedzie (and not Lawndale as Bill V incorrecly has stated on his website as Lawndale never had Americanas which were seen often on the 94 mid 80s to 1994) from 1986 to 1994. And during that time Archer had artics and would often place a few of them on the 94 along with the fishbowls. In those days even though artics were sporadically used on either route, you still were more likely to see one of the MAN artics on the 94 than you would the 66. So it's ironic my first ever artic ride was on the 66 Chicago.

[artthouwill]

I wonder if their using the same amount of buses. 77th when it ran 40 foot buses on 79th could run as many as 33 buses in the rush. I need to do another count now that it's artic just to see if service has been cut. Capacity versus Quantity.

The schedule is the schedule. If it calls for 33 buses, then that means it needs 33 buses, whether they are all 40', 60' or a

combination of the two. The rush hour headways are 3.5 minutes between Western and the Lakefront and 7 minutes between Western and Ford City. Perhaps CTA may tinker with the schedule for fewer buses with increased headways once it decides to dedicate artics exclusively to the 79th route. I would probably prefer keeping the current headways and a mix of 40' and 60' buses. Besides you can't change a schedule midpick.

[BusHunter]

Kind of interesting, I was looking to see what other routes out of Chicago have the next highest ridership. The #53 is about 4,000 riders behind the #66 and the #20 is about 6,000 shy. With 40 artics at Chicago I'm surprised these other routes don't get artics especially on the weekend. The #77 out of FG which is close to Chicago territory has higher ridership than the #53 and #20. The #77 could actually benefit from weekend artics as that route is always busy. One thing that has not stopped is the bus bunching, currently the #66 has 3 artics pinned together mid route and one bus at the west end. Some things are hard to change.

[pudgym29]

Where I have been surprised is how and where Chicago Garage has sent out the sparse 60-footers on other routes. For example, route #74 Fullerton. The east terminal of it is a tight series of 90° turns, with one 135° turn from Webster to Lincoln. That is a tricky turn for a 40-foot bus, much less a 60-footer. Does this run actually return west in the AM rush, or does it go on to another route? Also agree it would be sensible to run 60-footers on #20, #53, and perhaps the odd one on #65.

[Busjack]

.... That is a tricky turn for a 40-foot bus, much less a 60-footer. Does this run actually return west in the AM rush, or does it go on to another route? Also agree it would be sensible to run 60-footers on #20, #53, and perhaps the odd one on #65.

Again, someone is forgetting that a 60 foot bus is 2 30 foot bus sections. New Flyer's specifications indicate the same turning radius for either a 40 or 60 foot bus (44 ft).

[trainman8119]

Kind of interesting, I was looking to see what other routes out of Chicago have the next highest ridership. The #53 is about 4,000 riders behind the #66 and the #20 is about 6,000 shy. With 40 artics at Chicago I'm surprised these other routes don't get artics especially on the weekend. The #77 out of FG which is close to Chicago territory has higher ridership than the #53 and #20. The #77 could actually benefit from weekend artics as that route is always busy. One thing that has not stopped is the bus bunching, currently the #66 has 3 artics pinned together mid route and one bus at the west end. Some things are hard to change.

Moving Belmont to Chicago Ave wouldn't be all that crazy. Remember, it was a North Ave route before it closed. It went to Forest Glen then along with Diversey. Diversey went to the new Chicago when it opened, but Belmont stayed at the Glen. Since Chicago replaced North, it wouldn't be a bad idea to move 77 there if it meant putting some artics there. (Remember Chicago in effect replaced North Ave).

[BusHunter]

They could do what they have done in former picks. Share the #77 by interlining the #74 or try the #65. A few artics would go a long way for belmont. I still think that route could share with fg. The only difference would be chicago would share with fg instead of fg sharing with Chicago

[jajuan]

Again, someone is forgetting that a 60 foot bus is 2 30 foot bus sections. New Flyer's specifications indicate the same turning radius for either a 40 or 60 foot bus (44 ft).

Right, otherwise artics would really struggle to negotiate that tight right turn (due to the curb on Sheridan squeezing in some at the intersection) from westbound Foster to northbound Sheridan when they're operating as a 136 or 147.

[Busjack]

On the agenda is a proposal to rehab the 4300s.

[andrethebusman]

Any ideas what befell 4324? No longer on roster as of 10/3/22.

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

3 minutes ago, andrethebusman said:

Any ideas what befell 4324? No longer on roster as of 10/3/22.

4324 was last out yesterday 

[Policeman]

11 minutes ago, andrethebusman said:

Any ideas what befell 4324? No longer on roster as of 10/3/22.

I hope u mean 4323 because that crashed 6 months after it went into service 

[andrethebusman]

You know, this is starting to make me wonder if anything at SS for even minor work gets dropped from active roster?

[YoungBusLover]

15 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

You know, this is starting to make me wonder if anything at SS for even minor work gets dropped from active roster?

Well to answer that I can tell you a lot of those buses back in the boneyard should have been dropped from roster after several months of sitting.