3200-series - Updates

[Busjack]

6 hours ago, rvwnsd said:

Maybe CTA will put car 3294 on a flatbed, truck it up Lawrence to Jefferson Park, and then lower it onto the tracks so it can go on its merry way to O'Hare. 

CTA could build the proposed Lawrence subway in time. Not!!!

[Guest]

On 9/28/2018 at 12:15 AM, ChicagoNova said:

Someone may have suggested this before, but perhaps they should take the 3200 Series rail cars off the Brown Line & transfer them as well to the Blue Line.

I had been suggesting it for the last few years! Taking a beating from some on this site! But I didnt care!  Im just glad CTA FINALLY is paying some very long overdue attention to the Blue line instead of all the attention and resources going to the Red and Green lines 

[BusHunter]

10 hours ago, CTA5750 said:

I had been suggesting it for the last few years! Taking a beating from some on this site! But I didnt care!  Im just glad CTA FINALLY is paying some very long overdue attention to the Blue line instead of all the attention and resources going to the Red and Green lines 

It has no choice. It's either that or cut service on blue due to not enough working rail cars. They can blame themselves for bonehead moves like making the purple line get all new cars and leaving high demand lines like blue to fend for itself. Even green doesnt need all those new cars. Wheres the demand? It not on the south side green that's for sure. This consolidation is silly. I guess the last 100 years of transit hasn't taught them anything. How can you physically couple a DC car to an ac? The couplers dont match. 

[artthouwill]

3 hours ago, BusHunter said:

It has no choice. It's either that or cut service on blue due to not enough working rail cars. They can blame themselves for bonehead moves like making the purple line get all new cars and leaving high demand lines like blue to fend for itself. Even green doesnt need all those new cars. Wheres the demand? It not on the south side green that's for sure. This consolidation is silly. I guess the last 100 years of transit hasn't taught them anything. How can you physically couple a DC car to an ac? The couplers dont match. 

You guys are glossing over 2 major issues still.  First there is the power issue on the Blue Line.  The power needs upgrading to handle a bunch of 5000s and future 7000s.  The second is fleet flexibility.  CTA can rotate cars between the Red, Purple, and Yellow Lines easily since they all share Howard Yard.

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

[Guest]

6 hours ago, BusHunter said:

It has no choice. It's either that or cut service on blue due to not enough working rail cars. They can blame themselves for bonehead moves like making the purple line get all new cars and leaving high demand lines like blue to fend for itself. Even green doesnt need all those new cars. Wheres the demand? It not on the south side green that's for sure. This consolidation is silly. I guess the last 100 years of transit hasn't taught them anything. How can you physically couple a DC car to an ac? The couplers dont match. 

Its a complete joke!  The Blue should have had updated cars like the 3200s, which I love personally! Years ago!!! This was a way overdue issue! CTA was allowing the for the 2600s to fall apart including the stations for too many years!  Now finding out from a CTA worker, the line is not equipped to handle the 5000s alongside 3200s   I told him, "Why am I not surprised???"  Even he was telling me how long CTA has neglected the line while others saw many upgrades! He told me that CTA puts the Blue at "the back of the line" when it comes to priorities! 

[Sam92]

8 minutes ago, CTA5750 said:

Its a complete joke!  The Blue should have had updated cars like the 3200s, which I love personally! Years ago!!! This was a way overdue issue! CTA was allowing the for the 2600s to fall apart including the stations for too many years!  Now finding out from a CTA worker, the line is not equipped to handle the 5000s alongside 3200s   I told him, "Why am I not surprised???"  Even he was telling me how long CTA has neglected the line while others saw many upgrades! He told me that CTA puts the Blue at "the back of the line" when it comes to priorities! 

I think blue line being isolated from the system is part of the neglect

[artthouwill]

6 hours ago, CTA5750 said:

Its a complete joke!  The Blue should have had updated cars like the 3200s, which I love personally! Years ago!!! This was a way overdue issue! CTA was allowing the for the 2600s to fall apart including the stations for too many years!  Now finding out from a CTA worker, the line is not equipped to handle the 5000s alongside 3200s   I told him, "Why am I not surprised???"  Even he was telling me how long CTA has neglected the line while others saw many upgrades! He told me that CTA puts the Blue at "the back of the line" when it comes to priorities! 

Let's see.   The Red Line South was in total disrepair and needed to be rebuilt, in part, because it was affecting North Side service as well.  It also had a bunch of 2600s.  But I suppose you think the south Siders should've kept them.

The Green Line reopened in 1996 with ALL 2400s, which were the 2nd oldest cars in the fleet at that time, behind only the 2200s.  Before the shutdown, the Green Line  was saddled with the 2000s,which were even older than the 2200s.  I suppose the West Siders shouldn't have new equipment  either.

The Brown Line was still running 6000s before retirement.  Are Brown  Line riders not entitled to newer equipment?  Remember both the Brown and Orange were also passed over for 5000s. Add in the fact the Orange Line  lost all of their 3200s to your Blue Line.  But I guess it's okay for the southwestsiders to have them.

The entire CTA system was dilapidated.   With limited resource CTA has had to prioritize which projects were most urgent.   While the Blue LineO'Hare branch did get some work, other lines needed the most attention, period.   Now it's time for the  Blue to get the attention. 

[Pink Jazz]

Power issues are one of the main reasons why CTA can't run a large number of 5000s on the Blue, and fleet commonality between lines is another reason.  CTA won't run different series of cars on Red/Purple/Yellow or Pink/Green just to please Blue Line riders; they want the flexibility to swap the cars between those lines.  Also, the 5000s running on the Blue are still technically assigned to the Pink Line and are operated by Pink Line crews, so commonality with the 3200s isn't much of a problem right now.

It seems like some Blue Line riders remind me of those in NYC who complained about losing their R142A cars on the (6) train.  Blue Line riders are not entitled to the newest equipment any more than riders of other lines.

[Aiden Tabucic]

36 minutes ago, Pink Jazz said:

Power issues are one of the main reasons why CTA can't run a large number of 5000s on the Blue, and fleet commonality between lines is another reason.  CTA won't run different series of cars on Red/Purple/Yellow or Pink/Green just to please Blue Line riders; they want the flexibility to swap the cars between those lines.  Also, the 5000s running on the Blue are still technically assigned to the Pink Line and are operated by Pink Line crews, so commonality with the 3200s isn't much of a problem right now.

It seems like some Blue Line riders remind me of those in NYC who complained about losing their R142A cars on the (6) train.  Blue Line riders are not entitled to the newest equipment any more than riders of other lines.

The 5000’s that run on blue line are some X-Red Line Cars the rest are pink line cars the X-Red Cars are now assigned on the blue line but stored on the pink line

[Guest]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

Let's see.   The Red Line South was in total disrepair and needed to be rebuilt, in part, because it was affecting North Side service as well.  It also had a bunch of 2600s.  But I suppose you think the south Siders should've kept them.

The Green Line reopened in 1996 with ALL 2400s, which were the 2nd oldest cars in the fleet at that time, behind only the 2200s.  Before the shutdown, the Green Line  was saddled with the 2000s,which were even older than the 2200s.  I suppose the West Siders shouldn't have new equipment  either.

The Brown Line was still running 6000s before retirement.  Are Brown  Line riders not entitled to newer equipment?  Remember both the Brown and Orange were also passed over for 5000s. Add in the fact the Orange Line  lost all of their 3200s to your Blue Line.  But I guess it's okay for the southwestsiders to have them.

The entire CTA system was dilapidated.   With limited resource CTA has had to prioritize which projects were most urgent.   While the Blue LineO'Hare branch did get some work, other lines needed the most attention, period.   Now it's time for the  Blue to get the attention. 

While all the updates were happening on all these lines you state, The Blue remained almost completely unchanged in over 30 years! All the old equipment is usually shipped over to the Blue. Time has stood still on the Blue!  My point is CTA should be spending its resources better by making sure all areas of the city are entitled to updated equipment and service! The Blue was totally neglected! So Im sorry if you do not share my opinion but thats my thoughts on it! 

[BusHunter]

8 hours ago, CTA5750 said:

While all the updates were happening on all these lines you state, The Blue remained almost completely unchanged in over 30 years! All the old equipment is usually shipped over to the Blue. Time has stood still on the Blue!  My point is CTA should be spending its resources better by making sure all areas of the city are entitled to updated equipment and service! The Blue was totally neglected! So Im sorry if you do not share my opinion but thats my thoughts on it! 

Yeah I just dont understand the thinking here with the rail division. Green line running all 2400s or purple running old cars is acceptable because the cars get a chance to rest but blue line runs 24/7. How did they ever think they could pull that off? 

What's even more head scratching is the fact that basically the ohare branch has been taken down to the ballast and in some cases further than that however they never thought to upgrade the power!!?? Really???  

The forest park branch has to be the most neglected branch at cta. It has never been taken down to the ballast and it's the oldest expressway line. They just dont want to invest in it. You can see the new cars rocking and rolling on the tracks now. Where in the heck is the geometry train!!! 

The nw side always gets the old stuff. No one lives out here of any importance. Not since Jane Byrne. Rideshare would definitely like to thank the cta it's making a killing on cta's folly. You think forest glen is getting electric buses? Not a chance. They cant even let the glen keep its allocated share of 8200s. They silently migrated elsewhere and never came back. I wouldnt be surprised if the 8325s went somewhere else. I see the some 1000s headed up north. Why does one area of the city get 30 year old railcars and 18 year old buses? That's an I-team investigation in my opinion. Lol!!

[BusHunter]

19 hours ago, artthouwill said:

You guys are glossing over 2 major issues still.  First there is the power issue on the Blue Line.  The power needs upgrading to handle a bunch of 5000s and future 7000s.  The second is fleet flexibility.  CTA can rotate cars between the Red, Purple, and Yellow Lines easily since they all share Howard Yard.

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Well they better put some extra 5000s at Howard yard to rotate to pink line so they can rotate to blue. Ask yourself this question. Before cta said anything about power issues were we even having this conversation about power. Sorry I'm not buying it. Not riding it either anymore. Theres better options. When something is broken do you use it? I'd like to know why all this sudden attention to blue. I think they are having a ridership loss. 

It's going to be fun in the future not mixing the 7000s and 5000s but that will be our argument in 10 years from now. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Well they better put some extra 5000s at Howard yard to rotate to pink line so they can rotate to blue. Ask yourself this question. Before cta said anything about power issues were we even having this conversation about power. Sorry I'm not buying it. Not riding it either anymore. Theres better options. When something is broken do you use it? I'd like to know why all this sudden attention to blue. I think they are having a ridership loss. 

It's going to be fun in the future not mixing the 7000s and 5000s but that will be our argument in 10 years from now. 

Put extra 5000s at Howard so that extra 5000s can go to 54th so that some can be put on blue? I can't say that I can make sense of that statement. 

Before they said anything about power, it was just (from what I observed) speculations, accusations and the same old "CTA lays siege to the NW side, NW is CTA's dumping ground" talking points of before. Now, there is a clear reason as to why the blue can't continuously have the latest equipment and from there you can establish a tentative timeline to where service can be comparable with the rest of the city*. FG is no longer exclusively 6400s, there are shoeboxes and 7900s present, there is a goal of bringing the blue line to the modern age, I just don't see what all the outrage accomplishes. As a veteran of this forum, you should know better than I that these things just take time. I'm sure everything will be up to snuff soon

*Happy to be wrong if someone has more pertinent/correct info than I do

[BusHunter]

6 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Put extra 5000s at Howard so that extra 5000s can go to 54th so that some can be put on blue? I can't say that I can make sense of that statement. 

Before they said anything about power, it was just (from what I observed) speculations, accusations and the same old "CTA lays siege to the NW side, NW is CTA's dumping ground" talking points of before. Now, there is a clear reason as to why the blue can't continuously have the latest equipment and from there you can establish a tentative timeline to where service can be comparable with the rest of the city*. FG is no longer exclusively 6400s, there are shoeboxes and 7900s present, there is a goal of bringing the blue line to the modern age, I just don't see what all the outrage accomplishes. As a veteran of this forum, you should know better than I that these things just take time. I'm sure everything will be up to snuff soon

*Happy to be wrong if someone has more pertinent/correct info than I do

Well we definitely wouldnt want to put DC cars at Howard. And of course it wouldnt make sense to put more 3200s on blue and run a few ravenstons since Howard has many extra rail cars that it probably don't need. The rail fleet mileage balance is probably way off. While you have 5300s running 24/7 you have 5400s running barely at all. I would've at least rotated the 5000 fleet there. 

I dont expect a non nw sider to understand my points. Not having 5000 and 7000 compatibility will bite cta at some point. There are going to have the same issues then it will just  be with newer equipment. Not expecting CRRC will have a warranty issue at some point with all the components on board is just naive. What will they do then? 

Its just the status quo up here on the nw side with the equipment. Maybe there is reason ridership is weaker here. No one said we had to ride the old equipment. At least times have changed at Pace north the other graveyard. CTA I'm not holding my breath. They are trying now yes so maybe they deserve some credit but now you have to fix stuff that is older than it should be due to neglect. If they keep it up maybe they can change our outlook of the cta but the frustration is deep rooted now. 

[Tcmetro]

CTA is planning to have the power upgrades completed on the O'Hare branch by 2021. 

[strictures]

9 minutes ago, Tcmetro said:

CTA is planning to have the power upgrades completed on the O'Hare branch by 2021. 

Which in reality means 2022 at the earliest.  

[Busjack]

17 minutes ago, Tcmetro said:

CTA is planning to have the power upgrades completed on the O'Hare branch by 2021. 

@garmon757 also brought up the bad track conditions on the Forest Park branch, which includes the Blue Line Vision Study.The latter indicates that not much of anything has happened since January 2017, or almost 2 years ago.

That's why I said that the 3200s going to the Blue Line and the Orange Line only having 2600s indicated to me that the Orange Line is getting the 7000s first, which, from the budget looks like 2021. IMO, they aren't going to cut it that close on the Blue, nor put the 3200s back on the Orange, although anything is possible.

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

@garmon757 also brought up the bad track conditions on the Forest Park branch, which includes the Blue Line Vision Study.The latter indicates that not much of anything has happened since January 2017, or almost 2 years ago.

That's why I said that the 3200s going to the Blue Line and the Orange Line only having 2600s indicated to me that the Orange Line is getting the 7000s first, which, from the budget looks like 2021. IMO, they aren't going to cut it that close on the Blue, nor put the 3200s back on the Orange, although anything is possible.

Also take into consideration the supposed study to fix or rebuild the Eisenhower through Oak Park and Forest Park.  CTA has its hands tied until IDOT figures out how to go about this project.  

I agree that Orange could get 7000s first, which could put the Brown Line second in line to get them.  Don't  tell BusHunter, sw4400, or cta5750? that.

It wasn't CTA's choice that the 5000s and the 7000s wouldn't be  compatible.  

The only immediate hope for the Blue Line is to swap some more 2600s for some Brown Line 3200s or for CTA to send another set or two of 5000s to 54th Yard to help out Blue Line service.

[Busjack]

49 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

It wasn't CTA's choice that the 5000s and the 7000s wouldn't be  compatible.  

Yes it was. Instead of rejecting the first round of bids and trying again, it could have awarded the contract to Bombardier instead of saying that more competition was necessary.

 

[artthouwill]

48 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Yes it was. Instead of rejecting the first round of bids and trying again, it could have awarded the contract to Bombardier instead of saying that more competition was necessary.

 

Would CTA have been subjected to a lawsuit claiming favoritism towardBombardier?  Apparently  CTA was fed up with Bombardier enough that it badly wanted to choose another builder.

[BusHunter]

12 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Also take into consideration the supposed study to fix or rebuild the Eisenhower through Oak Park and Forest Park.  CTA has its hands tied until IDOT figures out how to go about this project.  

I agree that Orange could get 7000s first, which could put the Brown Line second in line to get them.  Don't  tell BusHunter, sw4400, or cta5750? that.

It wasn't CTA's choice that the 5000s and the 7000s wouldn't be  compatible.  

The only immediate hope for the Blue Line is to swap some more 2600s for some Brown Line 3200s or for CTA to send another set or two of 5000s to 54th Yard to help out Blue Line service.

Yeah well they could double their bang for their buck by starting on the brown line moving 3200s over to blue and getting new cars on the brown. Orange may be desperate for cars but blue is more desperate. Knowing cta they might do 10 here 10 there 

[artthouwill]

12 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Yeah well they could double their bang for their buck by starting on the brown line moving 3200s over to blue and getting new cars on the brown. Orange may be desperate for cars but blue is more desperate. Knowing cta they might do 10 here 10 there 

I actually considered that too.  The question is how long will the 2600s hold up?  We know 100 will get another rehab and those will most likely  ggp to the Blue Line.

 

[BusHunter]

13 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I actually considered that too.  The question is how long will the 2600s hold up?  We know 100 will get another rehab and those will most likely  ggp to the Blue Line.

 

There always plenty of 5000s. 54th is supposed to have a 100 car capacity so worst case scenario they could use up to 50 for blue. 

Kind of interesting 2600 cars are failing ahead of the winter which is when maintenance is most taxed. For cta's sake we dont have a bad winter or blue line might be putting in its order at 54th. 

[Guest]

On 11/16/2018 at 2:07 PM, Pink Jazz said:

Power issues are one of the main reasons why CTA can't run a large number of 5000s on the Blue, and fleet commonality between lines is another reason.  CTA won't run different series of cars on Red/Purple/Yellow or Pink/Green just to please Blue Line riders; they want the flexibility to swap the cars between those lines.  Also, the 5000s running on the Blue are still technically assigned to the Pink Line and are operated by Pink Line crews, so commonality with the 3200s isn't much of a problem right now.

It seems like some Blue Line riders remind me of those in NYC who complained about losing their R142A cars on the (6) train.  Blue Line riders are not entitled to the newest equipment any more than riders of other lines.

No one is saying the "Blue Line" has any kind of entitlement!!! Not even me!  No line should be completely entitled but it seems the Red line came out the winner with the 5000s  Almost 3/4 of the deliveires went to that line  Where did their 2600s go???  To the Blue!!! My argument is, and you even said it!  In addition to no new updated equipment or station upgrades for far too long, Also, No power upgrades! That of course why CTA cant run newer equipment  CTA has neglected the Blue for so long!  The Blue isnt a special line any more than the others, but it did deserve some attention!!! Im glad the CTA finally got off their lazy a....s and started paying some attention to the Blue!  The 3200s are no doubt a welcome sight! I still cant believe CTA did this!t But look how long we had to wait! This low level of service would not have been accepted in any other part of the CTA system. Why is the "Blue" commonly left behind???  Now that they finally decided to pay some attention to the line  They only now realize they have to upgrade the power on the line to handle the 5000s???  I doubt the 7000s will go to the Blue!  Its a punchline to a bad joke for CTA and slap in the face for NW side riders!  We have just as much service as any of the other lines including serving our major airport!  Ask yourself......How would you feel if you lived in an area that had antiquated transit equipment for decades that you rely on everyday as opposed to other areas of the city that did have new and updated equipment and service???  Ask yourself!!!  I would imagine you would have the same argument!
 

[NewFlyerMCI]

26 minutes ago, CTA5750 said:

No one is saying the "Blue Line" has any kind of entitlement!!! Not even me!  No line should be completely entitled but it seems the Red line came out the winner with the 5000s  Almost 3/4 of the deliveires went to that line  Where did their 2600s go???  To the Blue!!! My argument is, and you even said it!  In addition to no new updated equipment or station upgrades for far too long, Also, No power upgrades! That of course why CTA cant run newer equipment  CTA has neglected the Blue for so long!  The Blue isnt a special line any more than the others, but it did deserve some attention!!! Im glad the CTA finally got off their lazy a....s and started paying some attention to the Blue!  The 3200s are no doubt a welcome sight! I still cant believe CTA did this!t But look how long we had to wait! This low level of service would not have been accepted in any other part of the CTA system. Why is the "Blue" commonly left behind???  Now that they finally decided to pay some attention to the line  They only now realize they have to upgrade the power on the line to handle the 5000s???  I doubt the 7000s will go to the Blue!  Its a punchline to a bad joke for CTA and slap in the face for NW side riders!  We have just as much service as any of the other lines including serving our major airport!  Ask yourself......How would you feel if you lived in an area that had antiquated transit equipment for decades that you rely on everyday as opposed to other areas of the city that did have new and updated equipment and service???  Ask yourself!!!  I would imagine you would have the same argument!
 

This reply isn't to call you out, but it touched on something i'd been thinking about for a while. I find it interesting that no one focuses on how the West side may be affected by the current crisis affecting the Blue line. Is it because of new station improvements? Pink line being less than a mile south? No one vocally representing the West side on this forum?