North | North Shore | Northwest | River Divisions - Changes & Restructuring

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

What #206 changes? #206 is gone?

It's kind of weird but as many times as I've drove the edens I never saw a bus on shoulder yet. I think the traffic is pretty good north of Dempster and they don't really need a bus on shoulder. Usually the edens starts getting issues at Touhy sb.

The Tri state has consistently bad traffic especially up by O'Hare. How in the heck #895 keeps on schedule I don't know.

Only change to #206 is that some school trips now operate via the Church/Chicago routing of the now discontinued #205

http://www.pacebus.com/pdf/initiatives/NSCP/Route-by-Route_Summary_of_Changes.pdf

http://www.pacebus.com/pdf/initiatives/NSCP/NSCP_Final_Report.pdf

[Busjack]

20 hours ago, BusHunter said:

What #206 changes? #206 is gone?

18 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Only change

To repeat.

[TaylorTank1229]

I heard a rumor that phase 2 of the North Shore Transit Coordination Plan will be put into effect in September. If so, then we should be getting information regarding Pace Routes 210, 215, 225, 226 & CTA Route 54A sometime during the summer.

[jajuan]

On 6/13/2019 at 8:04 AM, TaylorTank1229 said:

I heard a rumor that phase 2 of the North Shore Transit Coordination Plan will be put into effect in September. If so, then we should be getting information regarding Pace Routes 210, 215, 225, 226 & CTA Route 54A sometime during the summer.

Well that would line up with the body of the final report stating that phase 2 was targeted for mid to late 2019 (even though interestingly enough the diagrams summarizing the implementation schedule targets state early to mid-2019). 

[renardo870]

On 6/13/2019 at 8:04 AM, TaylorTank1229 said:

I heard a rumor that phase 2 of the North Shore Transit Coordination Plan will be put into effect in September. If so, then we should be getting information regarding Pace Routes 210, 215, 225, 226 & CTA Route 54A sometime during the summer.

Looking at the 210 ridership it seems to average over 330 passengers monthly so I am curious on why service would be cut. I mean it's doing better than the 304 and 326, which will be discontinued after Friday August 9th, 2019 with averages in the 60s and 130s passenger range, respectively. I'm surprised there wasn't any uproar about the cut or is it still under consideration?

Edited July 14, 2019 by renardo870
Added numbers of ridership of the 304 and 326.

[MetroShadow]

On 7/13/2019 at 11:19 PM, renardo870 said:

Looking at the 210 ridership it seems to average over 330 passengers monthly so I am curious on why service would be cut. I mean it's doing better than the 304 and 326, which will be discontinued after Friday August 9th, 2019 with averages in the 60s and 130s passenger range, respectively. I'm surprised there wasn't any uproar about the cut or is it still under consideration?

210 has been historically dismal since the 2004 restructuring (and even more with the cut from the Brown Line). That’s 330 passengers spread against 13 hours a day (still 16.5 passengers/revenue hour) where ridership is spread with no clear objective or destination (crosstown services and whatever is in glenview can make it up)...not to mention if you compared 210 to the route classification (with the rest of the routes OR within Northwest/North Shore), it still ranks badly. 

Pulling resources from the 210 to cover better service (Crawford and 225/226) where markets justify it would be a better trade off. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

On 7/14/2019 at 2:19 AM, renardo870 said:

Looking at the 210 ridership it seems to average over 330 passengers monthly so I am curious on why service would be cut. I mean it's doing better than the 304 and 326, which will be discontinued after Friday August 9th, 2019 with averages in the 60s and 130s passenger range, respectively. I'm surprised there wasn't any uproar about the cut or is it still under consideration?

 

8 hours ago, MetroShadow said:

210 has been historically dismal since the 2004 restructuring (and even more with the cut from the Brown Line). That’s 330 passengers spread against 13 hours a day (still 16.5 passengers/revenue hour) where ridership is spread with no clear objective or destination (crosstown services and whatever is in glenview can make it up)...not to mention if you compared 210 to the route classification (with the rest of the routes OR within Northwest/North Shore), it still ranks badly. 

Pulling resources from the 210 to cover better service (Crawford and 225/226) where markets justify it would be a better trade off. 

Reading this makes me wonder why the 210 hasn't been cut. I always assumed it was Glenview and Oakton-Skokie keeping the line alive

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

 

Reading this makes me wonder why the 210 hasn't been cut. I always assumed it was Glenview and Oakton-Skokie keeping the line alive

I remember when the 210 ran downtown as a NORTRAN ( pre Pace).  Then it was cut back to Western Brown Line and again to Lincolnwod Mall.  Seemed like a matter of time before it would bite the dust. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

I remember when the 210 ran downtown as a NORTRAN ( pre Pace).  Then it was cut back to Western Brown Line and again to Lincolnwod Mall.  Seemed like a matter of time before it would bite the dust. 

Yeah, I was still living in Chicago when it went to Bryn Mawr, I think? Although this would've been right as my memory started to work. I always personally thought the 210 would be useless without a proper CTA connection (i.e. not the Yellow line) and it looks like I was right. Probably should've been one of the few Pace routes to continue into the city 

[MetroShadow]

On 7/13/2019 at 11:19 PM, renardo870 said:

Looking at the 210 ridership it seems to average over 330 passengers monthly so I am curious on why service would be cut. I mean it's doing better than the 304 and 326, which will be discontinued after Friday August 9th, 2019 with averages in the 60s and 130s passenger range, respectively. I'm surprised there wasn't any uproar about the cut or is it still under consideration?

From a planning and evaluation. standpoint (and I also wrote the standards), comparing 210 with 304 and 326 may not be in the best interests of comparison.

Different markets, same terrible ridership. Doesn’t detract from your thesis (or mine) that the routes have to go.

[MetroShadow]

9 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

 

Reading this makes me wonder why the 210 hasn't been cut. I always assumed it was Glenview and Oakton-Skokie keeping the line alive

Lincolnwood and the McCormick/Lincoln transfer point were the logical points for folks going south/east or to the mall (Glenview/Golf stations were for those North and Northwest), and CTA would take the passengers to the respective transit stations. 

The terminal changed as a result of the 2009-10 recession and pruning the routes made more sense then (as opposed to cutting everything to the bone).

Edited July 16, 2019 by MetroShadow
Going off of 10 year old memories when I first started working there.

[TaylorTank1229]

Looks like Phase 2 of the NSCP is beginning. On Sunday August 11th, #215 is having its route realigned between Golf/Skokie & Crawford/Church, which will beginning running via Golf Rd, Skokie Blvd, Church Ave, Crawford Ave. At the moment, it’s southbound terminus point is still at Howard Terminal, not yet Jefferson Park. That’s probably come later in the fall.

http://pacebus.com/sub/schedules/route_notice_detail.asp?Notice_ID=1603

[west towns]

on the CTA bus page a new post mentions 54A discontinuation later this fall replaced by 215 and new 641.  anyone know details of 641?

[TaylorTank1229]

10 minutes ago, west towns said:

on the CTA bus page a new post mentions 54A discontinuation later this fall replaced by 215 and new 641.  anyone know details of 641?

It’s the new Pace route that cover service of the 54A between the Skokie Courthouse and Cicero/Touhy.

And where did you see this on the CTA website?

[west towns]

it was on this site cta bus page fall pick

[TaylorTank1229]

2 minutes ago, west towns said:

it was on this site cta bus page fall pick

Oh, you meant on here. I thought you mean on the official CTA website. But yeah, I posted the forum.

[NewFlyerMCI]

30 minutes ago, CircleSeven said:

Follow up. Pace has posted this flyer for public hearings regarding Phase 2 changes. And because of "resource constraints", the proposed changes are different from the original changes:

• From Jefferson Park, the #215 will go straight down Foster to Pulaski, instead of Foster-Cicero-Peterson-Pulaski.
• The proposed #641 is not included in these new changes. That probably means #54A is saved from the blade.
• For the first time in over a decade, the #226 will go straight down Oakton between Mannheim and Busse, instead of serving the Des Plaines Metra. The bus will also turn on Skokie to Howard instead of Crawford, eliminating duplication of the #97 on that one-mile stretch of Oakton.
• The #423 will terminate the Glen of North Glenview Metra station via Waukegan and Willow Roads, but it will still serve Glenview Metra via Waukegan-Dewes-Harlem-Glenview and then back on Waukegan.
• The #422 will only terminate at the Glenview Metra, and will NOT proceed north to the Glen Metra station, as it was originally proposed.
• The new #424 will only terminate at the Glen Metra, and will NOT proceed north on Shermer & Waukegan to Northbrook Court as it was originally proposed.

• (215) That's a lot of duplication to reach the CTA station. At this point, they could also reroute the 210 to Kimball if they really want to be useful (although I recognize its being discontinued). In that same vein, I believe once you reach Pulaski/Foster, Kimball is actually closer than Jeff Pk, although not by a significant margin
  • Speaking of, could they not reroute the 54A along the proposed 641 routing, since it would be cost-neutral (I think, happy to be wrong) and then have the 215 serve the new routing?
• (226) That's an incredible loss of connections for the 226. I'd actually rather see it keep the original routing (to Des Plaines) and terminate there and have the 209 take over its west of Des Plaines routing since its such a shorter route, instead of bypassing it completely
• (423) I'd wonder if it be worth it to extend the 423 to Northbrook Court seeing as it's current service level is probably the max service levels would dictate. That said, I'm sure it's not a well-traversed corridor, so not the highest priority.

[Pace831]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

(226) That's an incredible loss of connections for the 226. I'd actually rather see it keep the original routing (to Des Plaines) and terminate there and have the 209 take over its west of Des Plaines routing since its such a shorter route, instead of bypassing it completely

The only lost connection is to 208. I wouldn't count 234 because most of its trips interline with 209. Since 208 and 226 run parallel, a good portion of riders who currently transfer between the two at Des Plaines could have an alternate way to get close to their destination by transferring to one of the north-south routes instead.

[NewFlyerMCI]

5 hours ago, Pace831 said:

The only lost connection is to 208. I wouldn't count 234 because most of its trips interline with 209. Since 208 and 226 run parallel, a good portion of riders who currently transfer between the two at Des Plaines could have an alternate way to get close to their destination by transferring to one of the north-south routes instead.

There's also the Metra train, which is about as equally important imo, and also the fact that it runs directly through downtown Des Plaines. I guess I don't particularly don't see the need for the detour (or rather restoration), but then again I don't have access to the ridership data, so. It just feels like they've created an unnecessary amount of work for the passenger.

[artthouwill]

Correct me if I am wrong,  but if the 226 runs Skokie to Howard instead of Crawford,  doesn't that mean the 226 won't serve the Oakton Yellow Line station?

[RJL6000]

42 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Correct me if I am wrong,  but if the 226 runs Skokie to Howard instead of Crawford,  doesn't that mean the 226 won't serve the Oakton Yellow Line station?

226 will effectively continue to serve the station since the station itself is on the northwest corner of Oakton and Skokie. Oakton Street east of Skokie Boulevard will continue to be served by the CTA Route 97. The bus stop locations for the 226 might change.

Plus, 226 will operate on weekends east of Milwaukee Avenue; this will replace the east-west segment of the current 215. The portion of the line west of Milwaukee Avenue will continue to operate on weekdays only with the exception of the routing change in Des Plaines mentioned above.

The 225 will also change: it will operate bidirectionally all day on weekdays instead of just during rush hours in the peak direction.

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

11 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

• (215) That's a lot of duplication to reach the CTA station. At this point, they could also reroute the 210 to Kimball if they really want to be useful (although I recognize its being discontinued). In that same vein, I believe once you reach Pulaski/Foster, Kimball is actually closer than Jeff Pk, although not by a significant margin
  • Speaking of, could they not reroute the 54A along the proposed 641 routing, since it would be cost-neutral (I think, happy to be wrong) and then have the 215 serve the new routing?
• (226) That's an incredible loss of connections for the 226. I'd actually rather see it keep the original routing (to Des Plaines) and terminate there and have the 209 take over its west of Des Plaines routing since its such a shorter route, instead of bypassing it completely
• (423) I'd wonder if it be worth it to extend the 423 to Northbrook Court seeing as it's current service level is probably the max service levels would dictate. That said, I'm sure it's not a well-traversed corridor, so not the highest priority.

looks like starting august 2020 215 will come to jefferson park will make better connections with 270L (local) and pulse along with 225 

[NewFlyerMCI]

6 hours ago, Mr.NewFlyer1051 said:

looks like starting august 2020 215 will come to jefferson park will make better connections with 270L (local) and pulse along with 225 

215 to Jeff Park was always the plan, but to replace local service on the 54A that wouldn't be made up by the 641 and serve that section of Pulaski that currently have service. However, there's no connection the 215 can make to Pace 100, 270 or 225 that can't be better served by going to an east-west bus route and then transferring.

[TaylorTank1229]

On 1/11/2020 at 7:13 AM, NewFlyerMCI said:

There's also the Metra train, which is about as equally important imo, and also the fact that it runs directly through downtown Des Plaines. I guess I don't particularly don't see the need for the detour (or rather restoration), but then again I don't have access to the ridership data, so. It just feels like they've created an unnecessary amount of work for the passenger.

Well, I mean the 226 still technically can connect with Metra trains, just only at Dee Road instead of connecting at Des Plaines. 

[renardo870]

How was the feedback from the Phase 2 Restructuring Meetings?