Busjack Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 ...but if the CTA wants to take possession of them starting in 2016, they need to exercise the option this year ....As I indicated above, it looked more like 2017, as representations were that deliveries of the base order would be through 1Q 2016. One part of the specifications is that the manufacturer has to disclose its order book. Only to CTA, not to us.The rest is just speculation in which I said I will no longer engage, especially given CTA's history or orders that did not go through as first represented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 As I indicated above, it looked more like 2017, as representations were that deliveries of the base order would be through 1Q 2016. One part of the specifications is that the manufacturer has to disclose its order book. Only to CTA, not to us.That's not what is in the budget. The budget says they will take possession of the option next year, but that was before they went on the electric bus pipe dream. We probably won't know their real intentions until the budget comes out for 2016. These #8100's are supposed to be delivered this year, probably 3rd quarter, but they can complete the 300 buses delivery as late as December. The option is all going to be tied to bus cuts, which will probably be announced by them around the announcement of the budget, whether that will happen or not. They might get buses anyway even though there are cuts. Capital has funding, it's the operating that don't. If not I would look into ordering more artics because with this Gov. they may just need them as more and more service gets cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) ...They might get buses anyway even though there are cuts. Capital has funding, it's the operating that don't. If not I would look into ordering more artics because with this Gov. they may just need them as more and more service gets cut.First, why all the demonizing of the Governor? Why not demonize the Illinois Supreme Court even more for saying that there won't be any budget relief by reforming pensions, because pensions can't be reformed, and hence the legislature will even have to cut more to comply with the balanced budget portion of the Constitution?Second, with it coming out that Metra has to raise fares for capital, we can't assume that capital is there. The CTA Budget has in the back all sorts of bond deals and equipment leases, which undoubtedly are paid out of the farebox.More artics just gets us back to Huberman lying when he asked the board to lease artics, and the issue that if 77th doesn't want them, there isn't any place to store them. If it is more artics, there is still the unaccepted portion of the solicitation, and it certainly will take longer to award that contract and give a notice to proceed and have that contractor gear up than to just exercise the option on the contract that has already been awarded. Edited May 11, 2015 by Busjack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 First, why all the demonizing of the Governor? Why not demonize the Illinois Supreme Court even more for saying that there won't be any budget relief by reforming pensions, because pensions can't be reformed, and hence the legislature will even have to cut more to comply with the balanced budget portion of the Constitution?Second, with it coming out that Metra has to raise fares for capital, we can't assume that capital is there. The CTA Budget has in the back all sorts of bond deals and equipment leases, which undoubtedly are paid out of the farebox.More artics just gets us back to Huberman lying when he asked the board to lease artics, and the issue that if 77th doesn't want them, there isn't any place to store them. If it is more artics, there is still the unaccepted portion of the solicitation, and it certainly will take longer to award that contract and give a notice to proceed and have that contractor gear up than to just exercise the option on the contract that has already been awarded.Wait a minute, you approve of Gov. Rauner? Then you must not care about transit because he is anti transit. I don't expect to see him riding a #147. Buying artics at least will help provide service and ease the overcrowding on the CTA. Better to have less frequent service than no service. Have you seen the traffic on Thurs-Sat? The city is slowly gridlocking due to poor planning and expansion of roads and transit. We are essentially on the cusp of putting more people into their cars with this potential service cut. We may not have a storage issue if 100's of buses get cut.Rapid transit is really the golden goose of transit around here, but they are basically to the point where it can't be expanded any further. With BRT on a long development schedule it just adds fuel to the fire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Wait a minute, you approve of Gov. Rauner? Then you must not care about transit because he is anti transit. I don't expect to see him riding a #147. Buying artics at least will help provide service and ease the overcrowding on the CTA. Better to have less frequent service than no service. Have you seen the traffic on Thurs-Sat? The city is slowly gridlocking due to poor planning and expansion of roads and transit. We are essentially on the cusp of putting more people into their cars with this potential service cut. We may not have a storage issue if 100's of buses get cut.Rapid transit is really the golden goose of transit around here, but they are basically to the point where it can't be expanded any further. With BRT on a long development schedule it just adds fuel to the fire.I think the Groundhog Blizzard proved how effective artics are in poor driving conditions, though. Would you want a total fleet of them? How would the CTA operate in another Groundhog Blizzard scenario? They would be jackknifing and blocking not just LSD, but arterial streets too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 I think the Groundhog Blizzard proved how effective artics are in poor driving conditions, though. Would you want a total fleet of them? How would the CTA operate in another Groundhog Blizzard scenario? They would be jackknifing and blocking not just LSD, but arterial streets too.No but 100 more couldn't hurt. What good is a bus no one can get on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 On my first 7900 series Nova, bus 8032 on the 9. It may be new, but it is still a Nova. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Now on Nova 7932 on 79th. What is this thing sticking out from the rear wheel wells into the aisle? I almost tripped on it while about to sit on one of the aisle facing seat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethebusman Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Wait a minute, you approve of Gov. Rauner? Then you must not care about transit because he is anti transit. I don't expect to see him riding a #147. Buying artics at least will help provide service and ease the overcrowding on the CTA. Better to have less frequent service than no service. Have you seen the traffic on Thurs-Sat? The city is slowly gridlocking due to poor planning and expansion of roads and transit. We are essentially on the cusp of putting more people into their cars with this potential service cut. We may not have a storage issue if 100's of buses get cut.Rapid transit is really the golden goose of transit around here, but they are basically to the point where it can't be expanded any further. With BRT on a long development schedule it just adds fuel to the fire.Basic problem is that back in the 1970's when everybody was in a state of "unrealistic enthusiasm" about the future, the state employee unions convinced everybody that there would be more and more money for the state, so they put in an iron-clad provision in the state constitution that whatever you were promised on the day you hired on with the state you were going to get and now the money isn't there, and we can't do anything about it, short of rewriting the constitution (which the state employee unions will fight to the death). So Rauner is in a very bad spot. He will almost certainly get tossed in four years if he takes the steps to cover this monstrosity, or if he can't take care of this either.As far as CTA is concerned, another crisis is coming. And even though I work there, the reality I can't avoid seeing is that the final answer to the CTA will be wage cuts. $32 an hour is just not sustainable under current conditions. Either the union will be forced to give in, or there has to be an effort to contract the system out. Sad but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Basic problem is that back in the 1970's when everybody was in a state of "unrealistic enthusiasm" about the future, the state employee unions convinced everybody that there would be more and more money for the state, so they put in an iron-clad provision in the state constitution that whatever you were promised on the day you hired on with the state you were going to get and now the money isn't there, and we can't do anything about it, short of rewriting the constitution (which the state employee unions will fight to the death). So Rauner is in a very bad spot. He will almost certainly get tossed in four years if he takes the steps to cover this monstrosity, or if he can't take care of this either.As far as CTA is concerned, another crisis is coming. And even though I work there, the reality I can't avoid seeing is that the final answer to the CTA will be wage cuts. $32 an hour is just not sustainable under current conditions. Either the union will be forced to give in, or there has to be an effort to contract the system out. Sad but true.Last time they had a crisis, I believe they tried to force the 30 year guys to retire. Don't know what that accomplished unless they were not the eligible age to collect their pensions. CTA has recently dropped the starting pay of bus operators, so most hired before that have that perk. I don't know about operators taking a pay cut, if it did happen then the unions weak. The pay scale for operators seems kind of high especially when you factor in years of service. I know some people in upper level management whose starting pay is just a few dollars more than that. Now why would an operator make what an upper level management person makes? There no incentive to advance yourself in the company.Most likely what will happen is the part time operator again will be laid off, but last time they were calling them back a year later. I thought legally they only have to call them back by 6 months. They could save money just cutting their ties with them or rehiring them at starting pay. That's dirty, but it stretches the payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethebusman Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 In 2009, both full and part time drivers were laid off. Basically because otherwise CTA would have ended up with nothing but full-timers who would then end up working trippers but getting paid for 8 hours. This is because part time and full time are considered separate job classifications, and when one goes from part to full time, you technically resign and are rehired, so there is no mechanism for going the other way, resign as full time and be rehired as part time. Maybe there should be a different way of defining part vs full time, like in some systems where you become "full time" whenever you can pick work totaling 40 hours a week, with nothing else changing. But because of the history of how this part-time business started back in 1983, that is probably not possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcherRider Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I was ride #8085 on #62 yesterday evening and the bus broken down middle of street the bus operator said the new NOVA bus was "piece of junk." I was shocked when I heard it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I went past 77th garage today. There were no 8100 numbered buses. There were some Novas on the south fence like 8093. I didn't catch the other numbers. So I guess the wait continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I went past 77th garage today. There were no 8100 numbered buses. There were some Novas on the south fence like 8093. I didn't catch the other numbers. So I guess the wait continues. Soon we'll see some of them.... Plattsburgh has a few 8100's built, we saw that in the Facebook photo when that dignitary visited the plant. They'll no doubt be taking the drive west soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I was ride #8085 on #62 yesterday evening and the bus broken down middle of street the bus operator said the new NOVA bus was "piece of junk." I was shocked when I heard it.That's nothing compared to the level of squawking by some currently less active forum members who were Chicago Garage operators at the time CTA was phasing out the 4400s and 5300s and 1000s were still relatively new and replacing them. Every little issue that came up with the 1000s as their kinks were being ironed out was fuel for the fire for these guys of why the 1000s were "junk" compared to these guys' revered 5300s even though the 4400s and 5300s, which didn't get a rehab as the 4400s did, were several years further along past their retirement eligibility at that time than the 6400s are now currently as a series. It just shows nothing has changed about some being so resistant to change that it becomes baffling. Maybe this operator should work at FG for a few weeks stuck driving nothing but the oldest bus model in the system and experiencing what those operators have to contend with, and we'll see how much he/she thinks the 7900s are junk then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcherRider Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 That's nothing compared to the level of squawking by some currently less active forum members who were Chicago Garage operators at the time CTA was phasing out the 4400s and 5300s and 1000s were still relatively new and replacing them. Every little issue that came up with the 1000s as their kinks were being ironed out was fuel for the fire for these guys of why the 1000s were "junk" compared to these guys' revered 5300s even though the 4400s and 5300s, which didn't get a rehab as the 4400s did, were several years further along past their retirement eligibility at that time than the 6400s are now currently as a series. It just shows nothing has changed about some being so resistant to change that it becomes baffling. Maybe this operator should work at FG for a few weeks stuck driving nothing but the oldest bus model in the system and experiencing what those operators have to contend with, and we'll see how much he/she thinks the 7900s are junk then.I think CTA still I ironed it out the kinks on the new bus so these new buses are not junks not liked NABI buses that were JUNK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyerMCI Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 I think CTA still I ironed it out the kinks on the new bus so these new buses are not junks not liked NABI buses that were JUNK.Yes, well, I believe here we can make a special exemption for the NABI's, which, for the most part seem to be a singularity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Well since it's easy now to go by South Shop due to the fact that I just moved about 5 blocks from there on Vincennes Ave, I did a quick check (riding #24 to Walmart near 87th) and so far no sign of 8100s yet. However, #8059 and #8090 are OOS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) Well since it's easy now to go by South Shop due to the fact that I just moved about 5 blocks from there on Vincennes Ave, I did a quick check (riding #24 to Walmart near 87th) and so far no sign of 8100s yet. However, #8059 and #8090 are OOS.I was thinking with the recent #6400 transfers to FG, that would only leave 93 #6400's left to go not counting the FG ones. So it sounds like with this next 100 #8100's coming in FG will be receiving something even if it is the #1000's. Maybe just maybe Fg could receive as many as 100 #1000's if they figure the option (150) was to replace the rest. We still don't know if that's happening, but this might eliminate most of the pre #6709's without the option and just the addition of #1000's.BTW, the updated clever device installation is being installed on the rest of the FG buses. I saw one on #6482, #6697 and a few others yesterday. Maybe this recent swap is an effort to not equip all the buses with the updated cd's. Maybe they could save themselves 10-15 installations, but I thought maybe they would wait a little longer for the #8100's to displace 100 buses. The article linked to did say a few months from now. Edited May 20, 2015 by BusHunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I was thinking with the recent #6400 transfers to FG, that would only leave 93 #6400's left to go not counting the FG ones. So it sounds like with this next 100 #8100's coming in FG will be receiving something even if it is the #1000's. Maybe just maybe Fg could receive as many as 100 #1000's if they figure the option (150) was to replace the rest. We still don't know if that's happening, but this might eliminate most of the pre #6709's without the option and just the addition of #1000's.BTW, the updated clever device installation is being installed on the rest of the FG buses. I saw one on #6482, #6697 and a few others yesterday. Maybe this recent swap is an effort to not equip all the buses with the updated cd's. Maybe they could save themselves 10-15 installations, but I thought maybe they would wait a little longer for the #8100's to displace 100 buses. The article linked to did say a few months from now.At this point, I really don't care where the 8100s lands at because the bottom line is that all garages should have a decent amount of better equipment by all means. Having some old Novas while new Clever Devices doesn't mean squat. Hell, the 4000s Clever Devices must have to be upgraded. Otherwise, they would be incompatible with the new system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 At this point, I really don't care where the 8100s lands at because the bottom line is that all garages should have a decent amount of better equipment by all means. Having some old Novas while new Clever Devices doesn't mean squat. Hell, the 4000s Clever Devices must have to be upgraded. Otherwise, they would be incompatible with the new system.It's just like with anything else, it has to be rolled out on a garage by garage basis. Remember when they did bustracker, it didn't all happen at once. They could just delay the #4000's until they get their rehabs. We'll know something's up if the #4060's get segregated to one route as the #4300's already have this. They seem to want to get the 40 foot buses online by the summer though but it's not out of the question to jump ahead and repair the cd's in the #4000's. They just do it ahead of the rehab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 Rode 8002 today on #9, and it's got a little cosmetic interior damage. The right LED cover panel by the front right bench seats and wheelwell is a little bent off. I can see the interior LED lights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.cta85 Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Still no sight of 8100's I assume right? Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Still no sight of 8100's I assume right? LolPatience, young Transit Padawan. See new buses soon, you shall.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4dyRTAfsKc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.cta85 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Patience, young Transit Padawan. See new buses soon, you shall.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4dyRTAfsKcLoool!!!! Ok just checking lol, I'll be out on the lookout as well just incase they pop up at 103rd ha ha!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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