7900-series Nova LFS - Updates

[sw4400]

I think they were put out incomplete.... they have the holes for cloth inserts... they'll probably have them eventually. With the Novas(6400-6883) seemingly giving out the past few days on #80 and #152(see Breakdown Thread), they might've been pressed into service to have runs filled.

[BusHunter]

Thanks Garmon you come through in the clutch. I'll be out tomorrow but someone needs to call the guy who decided on those seats to the manager's office. I hope they aren't too harsh on the derriere or what is the sense in that?

[jajuan]

3 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Aww!! Hell Naw!! Ok you can send me a paramedic now!! And both on Belmont Hmm... What other thing is going on on Belmont?? You get some shots cause my availability is not so great today.

Ok you can wipe that smug look from your face. But yeah it looks like they gave FG riders something else to rant about when it comes to that goofy seat spec they used on these.

[BusHunter]

Tell me about it. Now I think I really do need a paramedic. I'll see them tomorrow or if they stay out maybe tonight. But I feel like throttling the whole CTA hq on this one. Why don't they experinent anything before they do it. In time probably the fleet will have to mix because fg will have a majority of the same buses with the same seats. It will be like a nightmare we can't escape from.

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, Pace831 said:

So, arguably, FG still has the most uncomfortable buses. Beats taking a shower or breaking down, though.

I think the seats look good.  I also believe that these are new specs and not in completed seats.  No worries about stick gum or unknown soiling that the cloth seats are subjected to.  Besides the cloths really don't add any cushion. 

[sw4400]

For any forum members who feel a little faint with the 8200's in service at FG now..... they got your backs....  

 

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, garmon757 said:

Here it is guys! What the hell did they do to the seats though?!?!?! Also, notice the two stop requested buttons at the front (a very good idea for passengers who are senior citizens and disabled). There are 13 stop requested buttons total (7 on the right and 6 on the left) exclusively on the 8200s. I need to know the rest of the specs because these buses are not the same as 7900-8199. By the way, #8203 is also on #77. 

Congratulations on being the first to get pics of FG first 7900s in service.   What was the reaction from passengers and the driver,  if any?

[sw4400]

For a little side-by-side comparison of #8000 and #8202. It's still possible that maybe they were rushed into service due to shortages..... #152 and #80 have been short due to broke down Novas these past two days. I don't know the percentage of broke down Novas to operable ones, and 40 New Flyers isn't really going to fill gaps if there's a lot of buses down. Two possibly on #80 yesterday and one today in #6807 which was due to be the first to Cumberland when I was waiting for it(a passenger at the Addison Blue Line complained that he was waiting over an hour for a bus), only to have it disappear from the map completely and never come up as a ghost bus.

 

[4CottageGrove95th]

24 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Congratulations on being the first to get pics of FG first 7900s in service.   What was the reaction from passengers and the driver,  if any?

I'd like to know that too. Well, well, well..........The Forest Glenn "Curse" is finally over!!!  Ain't that nice!  Now, if we can just end the Blue Line "Drought" with some 7000s!  Now that FG is getting a taste of new equipment, I'm curious to see what CTA5750s reaction is.

[jajuan]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

I think the seats look good.  I also believe that these are new specs and not in completed seats.  No worries about stick gum or unknown soiling that the cloth seats are subjected to.  Besides the cloths really don't add any cushion. 

Yeah the seat looks nice, but the solid blue bottoms make the seats look unfinished.

1 hour ago, sw4400 said:

For a little side-by-side comparison of #8000 and #8202. It's still possible that maybe they were rushed into service due to shortages..... #152 and #80 have been short due to broke down Novas these past two days. I don't know the percentage of broke down Novas to operable ones, and 40 New Flyers isn't really going to fill gaps if there's a lot of buses down. Two possibly on #80 yesterday and one today in #6807 which was due to be the first to Cumberland when I was waiting for it(a passenger at the Addison Blue Line complained that he was waiting over an hour for a bus), only to have it disappear from the map completely and never come up as a ghost bus.

 

I kind of doubt that they would accept and put incomplete buses on the road. The seats come with the buses, otherwise CTA would not have been able to stipulate instructions about seating arrangements during the bid stage of the procurement process, and the stimulus artics would not have come with the King County spec for the seats due to CTA getting those by piggybacking Metro's remaining options of their order to New Flyer. About the only things one would expect the buses to come without are CTA-specific items, i.e the fare boxes, Ventra readers, the destination sign software, and maybe the Clever Device units. 

[garmon757]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

Congratulations on being the first to get pics of FG first 7900s in service.   What was the reaction from passengers and the driver,  if any?

 

1 hour ago, 4CottageGrove95th said:

I'd like to know that too. Well, well, well..........The Forest Glenn "Curse" is finally over!!!  Ain't that nice!  Now, if we can just end the Blue Line "Drought" with some 7000s!  Now that FG is getting a taste of new equipment, I'm curious to see what CTA5750s reaction is.

Surprisingly, there were no reaction at all by anybody else while I was on that bus. Just a typical riders that get on and get off. Otherwise, somebody would've probably ask me why I'm taking shots. 

[jajuan]

1 hour ago, garmon757 said:

 

Surprisingly, there were no reaction at all by anybody else while I was on that bus. Just a typical riders that get on and get off. Otherwise, somebody would've probably ask me why I'm taking shots. 

So bus and transit fans would have stuck out on that bus. 

[Pace831]

2 hours ago, sw4400 said:

 

Thanks for the comparison. Hard to tell whether the "new" seats are made to have cloth inserts without actually seeing them. However, the most noticeable difference is the Priority Seating lettering. The first picture does not show writing on the inserts. Otherwise the plastic part of the seat looks the same. On the new bus, is there a separate plastic piece taking the place of the cloth insert or is the seat all one piece? Depending on the answer to that question, if you were to remove a cloth insert, would there be Priority Seating lettering on the plastic underneath?

[Mr.cta85]

3 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I think the seats look good.  I also believe that these are new specs and not in completed seats.  No worries about stick gum or unknown soiling that the cloth seats are subjected to.  Besides the cloths really don't add any cushion. 

Agreed ??

[garmon757]

26 minutes ago, jajuan said:

So bus and transit fans would have stuck out on that bus. 

Exactly!!! 

[sw4400]

#8201 remains the only bus in service at this time on #77.... this is probably going to be their assigned route for the next several weeks. So if you're looking for the 8200's, check out #77 Belmont. It gets too crowded at the Kimball Blue Line for me to do so(I remember a Flxible being loaded WB with passengers standing in the stairwell of the bus against the doors).

[sw4400]

1 hour ago, Pace831 said:

Thanks for the comparison. Hard to tell whether the "new" seats are made to have cloth inserts without actually seeing them. However, the most noticeable difference is the Priority Seating lettering. The first picture does not show writing on the inserts. Otherwise the plastic part of the seat looks the same. On the new bus, is there a separate plastic piece taking the place of the cloth insert or is the seat all one piece? Depending on the answer to that question, if you were to remove a cloth insert, would there be Priority Seating lettering on the plastic underneath?

The giveaway is the little ring I've marked with a arrow. That's where a cloth insert could be put on the seat. I don't know about the backs, but as you can see 8000 doesn't have a ring on the back portion, but has cloth inserts. Maybe a special glue holds it on?

For an additional comparison of a bus with hard seat backing, here's a image of a 9800-Series Flyer D901 with plastic seating(no cloth). Note the absence of the ring in the middle... This bus is unable to have cloth inserts because of the design of the seating at this time. The 8200's can have the cloth inserts with the ring on the bottom seat. That, plus the fact that 8000-8199 have it, lead me to believe that the buses were pressed into service before all the finishing touches were installed. A seat insert is not a major component... I've seen Flxibles before with missing seat inserts because they needed the bus and it still needed a seat insert. If it can take customers from point "A" to "B", it can be put into service. That's CTA's motto....

Let's see what happens with 8200-8203 and subsequent Novas as they begin service and in the coming days...

[sw4400]

2 hours ago, jajuan said:

Yeah the seat looks nice, but the solid blue bottoms make the seats look unfinished.

I kind of doubt that they would accept and put incomplete buses on the road. The seats come with the buses, otherwise CTA would not have been able to stipulate instructions about seating arrangements during the bid stage of the procurement process, and the stimulus artics would not have come with the King County spec for the seats due to CTA getting those by piggybacking Metro's remaining options of their order to New Flyer. About the only things one would expect the buses to come without are CTA-specific items, i.e the fare boxes, Ventra readers, the destination sign software, and maybe the Clever Device units. 

The seats come with the buses jajaun, yes. But, the cloth inserts might be done in-house when they are at South Shops or their home garage. That probably takes just a few minutes per bus to install. All they need is a special tool to remove the ring, insert the cloth seat cover and reseat the ring. Plus put the cloth backing on(special glue?). And that seat is fully ready.

[jajuan]

3 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

The giveaway is the little ring I've marked with a arrow. That's where a cloth insert could be put on the seat. I don't know about the backs, but as you can see 8000 doesn't have a ring on the back portion, but has cloth inserts. Maybe a special glue holds it on?

For an additional comparison of a bus with hard seat backing, here's a image of a 9800-Series Flyer D901 with plastic seating(no cloth). Note the absence of the ring in the middle... This bus is unable to have cloth inserts because of the design of the seating at this time. The 8200's can have the cloth inserts with the ring on the bottom seat. That, plus the fact that 8000-8199 have it, lead me to believe that the buses were pressed into service before all the finishing touches were installed. A seat insert is not a major component... I've seen Flxibles before with missing seat inserts because they needed the bus and it still needed a seat insert. If it can take customers from point "A" to "B", it can be put into service. That's CTA's motto....

Let's see what happens with 8200-8203 and subsequent Novas as they begin service and in the coming days...

And again, I doubt the seats of 8200 and up seen so far has all that much to do 6400s dying faster than usual. That's just how the seats are made on these buses. 

[jajuan]

2 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

The seats come with the buses jajaun, yes. But, the cloth inserts might be done in-house when they are at South Shops or their home garage. That probably takes just a few minutes per bus to install. All they need is a special tool to remove the ring, insert the cloth seat cover and reseat the ring. Plus put the cloth backing on(special glue?). And that seat is fully ready.

Highly doubtful on that. When the seat manufacturers put together seats, they're very likely going to put together a seat complete with the inserts unless there is a spec for the seat to be done differently. Artics 4150-4207, with the exception of 4155 which seat design is further unique, have a seat design of an entirely different shape than other CTA buses. You think CTA just happened to have seat inserts that fit a King County Metro seat spec? I highly doubt it.

[sw4400]

Just now, jajuan said:

And again, I doubt the seats of 8200 and up seen so far has all that much to do 6400s dying faster than usual. That's just how the seats are made on these buses. 

Just a theory..... let's see what happens in the coming days, ok? I'm playing it on that possibility as #80 and #152 are never usually this bad(these routes usually have good service, especially when Cubs games are going on), so the older Novas must be dying out in numbers greater than the mechanics can get them operable again(those that are still able to chug along). The mentioning about #6807 disappearing when it was 8 minutes from my stop and never showing up is an example. Yesterday, crammed Irving Park bus Irving Park WB at 1:30p. Passengers saying a bus died somewhere near Lake Shore, another dead around Western. And on the Addison trip, several past Central saying they were on the other bus that was nowhere to be seen(another breakdown?).

The Novas might've had to be pressed into service by FG Management ahead of CTA Brass. Whoever the Garage Supervisor was must've decided "Screw it! We're short buses and we have enough trained staff. Get the Novas to Belmont to begin runs!" That might explain why they started at Octavia going east rather than Central or Cumberland, which @pudgym29 said seemed unusual.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Congratulations on being the first to get pics of FG first 7900s in service.   What was the reaction from passengers and the driver,  if any?

Glad to see FG finally get its due!!!  That garage deserved to have new buses!

[jajuan]

10 hours ago, sw4400 said:

Just a theory..... let's see what happens in the coming days, ok? I'm playing it on that possibility as #80 and #152 are never usually this bad(these routes usually have good service, especially when Cubs games are going on), so the older Novas must be dying out in numbers greater than the mechanics can get them operable again(those that are still able to chug along). The mentioning about #6807 disappearing when it was 8 minutes from my stop and never showing up is an example. Yesterday, crammed Irving Park bus Irving Park WB at 1:30p. Passengers saying a bus died somewhere near Lake Shore, another dead around Western. And on the Addison trip, several past Central saying they were on the other bus that was nowhere to be seen(another breakdown?).

The Novas might've had to be pressed into service by FG Management ahead of CTA Brass. Whoever the Garage Supervisor was must've decided "Screw it! We're short buses and we have enough trained staff. Get the Novas to Belmont to begin runs!" That might explain why they started at Octavia going east rather than Central or Cumberland, which @pudgym29 said seemed unusual.

And my theory is the details you're trying to connect are unrelated. CTA is not going to deliberately put incomplete brand new buses on the road even if the missing parts are related to the seats. You're reading too much into this, and you're also suggesting that the inspection teams for Nova and CTA are not doing their jobs, which ever since the NABI fiasco of years ago, CTA inspectors who look over newly delivered buses have shown themselves to be watching every small detail before they OK a bus to go into revenue service. If these buses were incomplete in any way, they never would have been authorized to leave South Shops and be assigned to FG. 

[sw4400]

6 minutes ago, jajuan said:

Highly doubtful on that. When the seat manufacturers put together seats, they're very likely going to put together a seat complete with the inserts unless there is a spec for the seat to be done differently. Artics 4150-4207, with the exception of 4155 which seat design is further unique, have a seat design of an entirely different shape than other CTA buses. You think CTA just happened to have seat inserts that fit a King County Metro seat spec? I highly doubt it.

They did have #6462 ahead of them, which had the seats before #4150-4207 arrived. The inserts were probably in the stockrooms.

[jajuan]

1 minute ago, CTA5750 said:

Glad to see FG finally get its due!!!  That garage deserved to have new buses!

A lot of us had been saying it was going to happen for that garage. It was stupid to stock that garage with nothing but the bus model set to go through retirement in the first place.