7900-series Nova LFS - Updates

[Guest]

On 2/25/2019 at 12:50 PM, BusHunter said:

Ok I'm at fg now. #8331 and #8332 are on the Armstrong fence now. #8341 has joined #8340 in the 3rd yard. I'm trying to figure this bus swap out but I cant just like cta usually does bus swaps sightings are sporadic. Dont know what 8325s are at 103rd. 

As far the numbers it does figure out but what buses are going to retired? There is no spare ratio. They cant get rid of the 77 6400s because it will create a shortage. Maybe 103rd is having show and tell but these new buses are way off the original spec. I can see why they delayed them going into service. It's like a new model. 

I'll be out in the field later maybe I can get some pics before they all go 103rd because i dont know what's going to happen. 

They should,just send all the remaining 6400 Novas to 103rd.to finish out their time. 

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, CTA5750 said:

They should,just send all the remaining 6400 Novas to 103rd.to finish out their time. 

Why?  103rd routes overall are heavier than FG.   While I don't think 103rd didn't need any new Novas and FG should have more new buses, there's no logic in sending 6400s anywhere else.

[BusHunter]

6 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Why?  103rd routes overall are heavier than FG.   While I don't think 103rd didn't need any new Novas and FG should have more new buses, there's no logic in sending 6400s anywhere else.

It would make sense to give them half of what fg has. This way those buses could run as little as possible. I'd spread them around the system myself. The way it's looking those 6400s may still be here at 22 years old. Run them too hard even at fg and they will end up with a 2600s situation where they fail I guess they learn when the time comes. 

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

It would make sense to give them half of what fg has. This way those buses could run as little as possible. I'd spread them around the system myself. The way it's looking those 6400s may still be here at 22 years old. Run them too hard even at fg and they will end up with a 2600s situation where they fail I guess they learn when the time comes. 

The primary purpose of keeping the 6400s in one place is ease.  You can easily manage parts inventory if inventory is in one place.  There is now ease of maintenance because only one garage has to deal with this series.  Since it is now only less than 100 of these, no need to spread them out.  Again, routes like 88 Higgins and 81W W Lawrence and 85A N Central and 86 Narragansett Ridgeland can handle those buses better than the 103rd routes can.

[YoungBusLover]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

The primary purpose of keeping the 6400s in one place is ease.  You can easily manage parts inventory if inventory is in one place.  There is now ease of maintenance because only one garage has to deal with this series.  Since it is now only less than 100 of these, no need to spread them out.  Again, routes like 88 Higgins and 81W W Lawrence and 85A N Central and 86 Narragansett Ridgeland can handle those buses better than the 103rd routes can.

Are we talking mileage wise or overall passenger usage rate? I feel 103rd could treat the 6400's series the same way they treated the last few 5300's they had around mid to late 2007 because at this point with 100 or less 6400's in service why not just send them south and let them ride off into the sunset? Some of 103rd's routes are just a short on mileage as some of the FG routes. A few routes that come to mind would be routes 100,111,111A,112,115,106,and perhaps the U of C routes. Its apples to oranges at this point but I do see where you're coming from though.

[artthouwill]

13 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

Are we talking mileage wise or overall passenger usage rate? I feel 103rd could treat the 6400's series the same way they treated the last few 5300's they had around mid to late 2007 because at this point with 100 or less 6400's in service why not just send them south and let them ride off into the sunset? Some of 103rd's routes are just a short on mileage as some of the FG routes. A few routes that come to mind would be routes 100,111,111A,112,115,106,and perhaps the U of C routes. Its apples to oranges at this point but I do see where you're coming from though.

Most of the 103rd routes you named interline with the heavy 29 or another heavy route. Th he 111A is one bus.  The 2 garages are at the extreme opposite of town.  Unnecessary to transfer old equipment 

[BusHunter]

23 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

Are we talking mileage wise or overall passenger usage rate? I feel 103rd could treat the 6400's series the same way they treated the last few 5300's they had around mid to late 2007 because at this point with 100 or less 6400's in service why not just send them south and let them ride off into the sunset? Some of 103rd's routes are just a short on mileage as some of the FG routes. A few routes that come to mind would be routes 100,111,111A,112,115,106,and perhaps the U of C routes. Its apples to oranges at this point but I do see where you're coming from though.

I totally agree. That's the point I'm trying to make. If you spread them around though put those on the slower routes like #57,#24 and others you could run buses and not be using them to the max. It doesnt help fg to take away new buses because that could be used heavily and now it cant. An argument for consolidation stops with the half transfer of the new buses. Why do that they have special components the rest of the fleet dont have. Alot of what cta does dont make sense then they get in trouble like with the 2600s. I predict though the 8325s will come back to fg. Once they see the absence of hopper windows if they have the same ac no one will want them. Fg is the dumping ground for old unwanted equipment so theyll get them. 

[Mr.cta85]

11 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

I totally agree. That's the point I'm trying to make. If you spread them around though put those on the slower routes like #57,#24 and others you could run buses and not be using them to the max. It doesnt help fg to take away new buses because that could be used heavily and now it cant. An argument for consolidation stops with the half transfer of the new buses. Why do that they have special components the rest of the fleet dont have. Alot of what cta does dont make sense then they get in trouble like with the 2600s. I predict though the 8325s will come back to fg. Once they see the absence of hopper windows if they have the same ac no one will want them. Fg is the dumping ground for old unwanted equipment so theyll get them. 

If the hopperless windows are an issue for 103rd It'll be the same thing if they go back to FG or any other garage. If that's a real issue they'll take them out of service to perhaps get hopper windows installed. I get that FG traditionally have the oldest buses in the fleet. But besides the 6400's, FG still have a good amount of still new 8200's and the latter of the 8325's which are far more than the few 20 novas 103rd have. 103rd and FG collectively have the oldest 1000 series in the fleet as well so I don't see the issue or the unfairness you speak of on behalf of FG. My garage could used some new 40fters too lol and mind you that all new flyers were recently rehabbed so it's not like they running around barely holding up like the 6400's they're still good reliable buses and will probably be around for 20yrs as well. I personally feel all garages should get 7900's so it can be a even spread (that's about 64 per garage) but since it's not like that, 103rd getting only 18 New novas in comparison to FG 80 plus is the least that could happen considering we haven't had new 40fters since 2007 I believe.

[ChicagoNova]

13 hours ago, CTA5750 said:

They should,just send all the remaining 6400 Novas to 103rd.to finish out their time. 

I was thinking the same thing.

[YoungBusLover]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

Most of the 103rd routes you named interline with the heavy 29 or another heavy route. Th he 111A is one bus.  The 2 garages are at the extreme opposite of town.  Unnecessary to transfer old equipment 

Well you could easily send some #1000's to only cover the 29 and the  other heavy routes I can think out of like Rt.34 and possibly Rt.119. Like I said before is this about mileage or overall passenger usage? And sending 100 or so 6400's back south wouldn't hurt anyone since they're going to south shops and then sims anyway afterwards, bring them back south. I remember seeing a few mid 6700's a few weeks back getting towed to sims on I-55 so it could happen.

[Mr.cta85]

20 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

Well you could easily send some #1000's to only cover the 29 and the  other heavy routes I can think out of like Rt.34 and possibly Rt.119. Like I said before is this about mileage or overall passenger usage? And sending 100 or so 6400's back south wouldn't hurt anyone since they're going to south shops and then sims anyway afterwards, bring them back south. I remember seeing a few mid 6700's a few weeks back getting towed to sims on I-55 so it could happen.

I've said this before, sending 6400's to 103rd or any other garage out south dont make sense at all. Route wise 103rd or any other south side garage are rougher than any of the routes at FG for the exception of 85 central I guess. If anything we need more novas because of those shields. It wouldn't make any sense to send those old shield less buses anywhere south or any other garage besides FG.

[artthouwill]

11 minutes ago, Mr.cta85 said:

I've said this before, sending 6400's to 103rd or any other garage out south dont make sense at all. Route wise 103rd or any other south side garage are rougher than any of the routes at FG for the exception of 85 central I guess. If anything we need more novas because of those shields. It wouldn't make any sense to send those old shield less buses anywhere south or any other garage besides FG.

And those shields on the 7900s are the only reason 103rd is getting ANY Novas at all.  Although I thought the shields on the NFs should be enough, apparently that's not the case.   So this should quash anyone's pipe dream about sending 6400s south.

[Nova's at 103rd]

I'm not surprised 103rd got Nova's because around 2011 or 2012 they experimented with 6400 series (usually was on the 15 Jeffery Local or 28 Stony Island) and only during rush hours for like 3 weeks and sent them back to i believe 77th, but I don't feel they made such an impact on service. Seeing the Nova's on the 103rd routes is just weird but something I saw if you go on the ChicagoBus.org website it says 103rd has Nova's so 8325's at 103rd is permanent at least for now.

[BusHunter]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

And those shields on the 7900s are the only reason 103rd is getting ANY Novas at all.  Although I thought the shields on the NFs should be enough, apparently that's not the case.   So this should quash anyone's pipe dream about sending 6400s south.

If it's really that bad put some shields in the 6400s. Crazy doing all this deadheading to south shops. I always see these on the xway. I tell you now the ac is superior on the old 6400s when the summer gets hot you may wish you had some. The #91 is no cakewalk. It gets all the high schoolers and that can be a rough crowd. If anything I say 77th is the highest risk for crime 79th followed by the 3 gets hit alot. How can you say this is fair maybe fair for you two third of the new buses are yours. And fg not only has the oldest novas it has the oldest nfs. So I guess that fair where your coming from!!

[Mr.cta85]

16 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

If it's really that bad put some shields in the 6400s. Crazy doing all this deadheading to south shops. I always see these on the xway. I tell you now the ac is superior on the old 6400s when the summer gets hot you may wish you had some. The #91 is no cakewalk. It gets all the high schoolers and that can be a rough crowd. If anything I say 77th is the highest risk for crime 79th followed by the 3 gets hit alot. How can you say this is fair maybe fair for you two third of the new buses are yours. And fg not only has the oldest novas it has the oldest nfs. So I guess that fair where your coming from!!

Lol easier said than done as far as putting shields on almost 20yr old buses which are on their way out the door lol. We too have the oldest flyers numerically speaking but I said all 1,030 have been fully rehabbed also. We only have 20 in comparison to 80 is all I'll say. 

[artthouwill]

31 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

If it's really that bad put some shields in the 6400s. Crazy doing all this deadheading to south shops. I always see these on the xway. I tell you now the ac is superior on the old 6400s when the summer gets hot you may wish you had some. The #91 is no cakewalk. It gets all the high schoolers and that can be a rough crowd. If anything I say 77th is the highest risk for crime 79th followed by the 3 gets hit alot. How can you say this is fair maybe fair for you two third of the new buses are yours. And fg not only has the oldest novas it has the oldest nfs. So I guess that fair where your coming from!!

I was never in favor of FG losing ANY new Novas.  I felt that 77th and 103rd should've done NF for new Novas swap.  I'm not in favor of unnecessary deadheading.  But more of that will come when the Proterras show up.  CTA still needs more 40 ft buses to rid itself of the 6400s once and for all.  It's not that I want all of them at FG.  But they ARE there so let them stay.  I didn't advocate 74th sharing its 6000s with other garages while it had ALL 6000s.  It made sense for 74th and FG to have them.  Unfortunately they crapped out so much they had to be replaced.   

[sw4400]

4 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I was never in favor of FG losing ANY new Novas.  I felt that 77th and 103rd should've done NF for new Novas swap.  I'm not in favor of unnecessary deadheading.  But more of that will come when the Proterras show up.  CTA still needs more 40 ft buses to rid itself of the 6400s once and for all.  It's not that I want all of them at FG.  But they ARE there so let them stay.  I didn't advocate 74th sharing its 6000s with other garages while it had ALL 6000s.  It made sense for 74th and FG to have them.  Unfortunately they crapped out so much they had to be replaced.   

Proterras will more likely then not be assigned to Chicago, Kedzie or 103rd or some mix 2 or all of these.

 

BTW: What's the status on them? I know we already hear thirty-some Proterras were contracted to be delivered, but that was awhile back. Are they due mid-late 2019?

[pudgym29]

On 2/26/2019 at 3:25 PM, ycu2455 said:

[After much plundering, image was finally snipped]

Look at the run number on that bus. "0000"?

I've seen a few Forest Glen buses running with run number "999" the past few days.

Maybe this is part of the snag?

[John7]

Rode 8325 yesterday on route 29. The back is now covered and Windows are darker. + Windows won't open if you need fresh air

20190226_201209.mp4

[Guest]

On 2/26/2019 at 11:31 PM, artthouwill said:

Why?  103rd routes overall are heavier than FG.   While I don't think 103rd didn't need any new Novas and FG should have more new buses, there's no logic in sending 6400s anywhere else.

I’m sure FGs routes are right up there with 103rds. The only light routes are 81W and 85A. The rest of FGs routes are heavy workers  I don’t see why FGs old Novas can’t be used at 103rd. 

[XE NewFlyer]

1 hour ago, CTA5750 said:

I’m sure FGs routes are right up there with 103rds. The only light routes are 81W and 85A. The rest of FGs routes are heavy workers  I don’t see why FGs old Novas can’t be used at 103rd. 

FG has quite a few light Routes including:88, 68, 86, 90, 54A, 81W, and 85A as you said While 103rd really has the 100, 106, 111A, and 112. Some 6400's could go to 103rd but there are a lot of light routes at 74th: 44, 48, 55N, 55A, 62H, 63W, 75, and 165, or 77th with the 8A, 31, 43, 51, 52A, and 53A. Send some old novas to one or both of those garages might not be a bad idea.

[NewFlyerMCI]

55 minutes ago, CTA5750 said:

I’m sure FGs routes are right up there with 103rds. The only light routes are 81W and 85A. The rest of FGs routes are heavy workers  I don’t see why FGs old Novas can’t be used at 103rd. 

103rd doesn't have the parts for them for any on-site maintenance?

[NewFlyerMCI]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m6VUanv_TI7FT41Xifa3w0hqTr-YFPrYtRHNvULakcg/edit?usp=sharing

Comparison of FG vs 103rd ridership

Data from RTAMS, Sept 2018 ridership used

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, CTA5750 said:

I’m sure FGs routes are right up there with 103rds. The only light routes are 81W and 85A. The rest of FGs routes are heavy workers  I don’t see why FGs old Novas can’t be used at 103rd. 

Like I stated earlier,  the ONLY reason 103rd is getting 7900s is for their driver safety shields, which the 6400s don't have.   There were a few high profile assaults on drivers on 103rd routes which prompted this move.  Prior to this 103rd wasn't slated for any 7900s.  

I also stated for inventory parts purposes, since it's less than 109 6400s, it makes sense to keep them at one garage.  Since they are already at FG, keep them there.  If they were all at 103rd already, I would say keep them at 103rd.  If they were all at C, I would say leave them at C.  There is no good reason to split them among any other garages.   No reason; NONE!

[BusHunter]

35 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m6VUanv_TI7FT41Xifa3w0hqTr-YFPrYtRHNvULakcg/edit?usp=sharing

Comparison of FG vs 103rd ridership

Data from RTAMS, Sept 2018 ridership used

Wow I'm actually surprised fg seems to have higher ridership than 103rd. But the #77 is a beast top 5 in ridership and they have some high profile routes like the #80 and #81. No reason to run old junk on a top 5 route. Fg just gets the shaft. Things have gotten worse over time. Used to be when fg got buses they weren't stolen away. Last two deliveries have been like that. Why cant they just take the 8236s and call it a day? Taking new buses is insulting to fg because they have the oldest equipment. Do you know counting the 89 buses and the 7 novas not even half the garage is equipped with buses at least from this decade. That's right. The majority of the fg fleet has buses 2006 and older. That's saying over half of fg has buses past the FTA 12 year service life. While we can argue a rehab gets the 1000s to 18 years what can you say about the 6400s. No rehab in 18 years!!! Are they the oldest buses in the nation. They got to be getting close. In a  way it dont make sense to have 7 new buses at fg. If they are not going to split them they should just take them all. Believe it. If cta goes all electric guess what garage will be last on the list. You know what would be interesting is figuring the average age of buses per garage. I bet fg is dead last.