If I ran Transit for one day...

[Busjack]

I'm starting this topic due to the lack of bus ridership and what would be some good options to help improve bus service citywide. So like give your opinions about what bus routes could use some changes to its routing, schedules, new bus routes the CTA could add, or what bus routes they could eliminate, etc. This does not reflect on the opinions of those associated with the Chicago Transit Authority. Open public opinions only.

One of my opinions: Add owl service to the #155 Devon route.

For this or any other ones, the Community Guidelines require some indication of what passenger generator is not being served.* For instance, I don't believe that there is any hospital, auto plant, or the like working night shift on Devon. When I lived around there, it was either people trying to get to the Loyola L station to work downtown, or people traversing between the various ethnic markets (which since have become more ethnic), which tends to show that the people stay in the neighborhood. Business that used to cater to people who used to live there have moved to Skokie.

In any event, opinion needs facts behind it.

_______

*This game having been previously played with the 155A Superdawg Feeder, and becoming more acute when the Crowd Reduction Plan showed that CTA is more willing to cut than add.

[strictures]

I'm starting this topic due to the lack of bus ridership and what would be some good options to help improve bus service citywide. So like give your opinions about what bus routes could use some changes to its routing, schedules, new bus routes the CTA could add, or what bus routes they could eliminate, etc. This does not reflect on the opinions of those associated with the Chicago Transit Authority. Open public opinions only.

One of my opinions: Add owl service to the #155 Devon route.

Extend every other run of the 53 Pulaski to Devon/Kedzie.

The only reason it ends at Peterson is that the C&NW Mayfair Cutoff had a grade crossing at Granville, so Surface Lines didn't want the streetcars crossing that, otherwise, it would've gone to the city limits at Devon.

[MetroShadow]

For this or any other ones, the Community Guidelines require some indication of what passenger generator is not being served.* For instance, I don't believe that there is any hospital, auto plant, or the like working night shift on Devon. When I lived around there, it was either people trying to get to the Loyola L station to work downtown, or people traversing between the various ethnic markets (which since have become more ethnic), which tends to show that the people stay in the neighborhood. Business that used to cater to people who used to live there have moved to Skokie.

In any event, opinion needs facts behind it.

_______

*This game having been previously played with the 155A Superdawg Feeder, and becoming more acute when the Crowd Reduction Plan showed that CTA is more willing to cut than add.

You beat me to it.

You have to back up your proposals and you have to be realistic. Refer to the community guidelines and go from there.

For example: does reviving the 11 south of the Brown Line fix the ridership issue where the Brown Line has handled the shift? Does eliminating the 96 and expanding the 84 or 155 to Edgebrook make any sense?

Tl;Dr- show your work!

/I'm still pro "superdawg feeder"

[garmon757]

Umm, I feel like this topic is duplicating my topic that I created last year...

[Busjack]

Extend every other run of the 53 Pulaski to Devon/Kedzie.

The only reason it ends at Peterson is that the C&NW Mayfair Cutoff had a grade crossing at Granville, so Surface Lines didn't want the streetcars crossing that, otherwise, it would've gone to the city limits at Devon.

I was going to argue the location of the bus loop, but saying Devon/Kedzie took care of that objection.

However, given that such routes in the area as 14 Cicero-Devon, 155A whatever it was, and Pace 211 were canceled, there apparently is no demand in an area that essentially has suburban characteristics.

....

/I'm still pro "superdawg feeder"

In that they eliminated 56A on Devon between Harlem and Milwaukee, apparently with no blowback, I wouldn't put any money on that.

[geneking7320]

I haven't ground the numbers but I would like to see artics on routes 3 and 4.

I have seen some full buses southbound in the afternoons between Wacker and

Roosevelt.

[jajuan]

I haven't ground the numbers but I would like to see artics on routes 3 and 4.

I have seen some full buses southbound in the afternoons between Wacker and

Roosevelt.

Well that won't be happening until either a.) the 3 and 4 go to other garages or b.) 77th gets some garage managers who get other this thing they seem to have against artics in general since they've pushed artics out twice now in recent history (the prior time being when 77th had 7500s and then 4000s during the part of the time that 77th had the 6 after the 2003 Lake Shore Express realignments).

[sw4400]

11.... 11.... 11. Am I being too vague here... bring it back between Fullerton and Western.

Other thoughts...

X routes that could stand returning/being made...

X80: Saved time traveling from Lake Shore to Harlem/Irving with reduced stops

X9: This route should be brought back as Irving Park to 95th is a long ride for a local route

X49: I could see this route returning, but it'll need to be rethought as the bus terminated at 95th/Evergreen Plaza. Maybe it can terminate at 79th with the local 49 or perhaps another location that this bus can terminate

X56: I can see this route coming as Milwaukee is a long route and it would save time having service that doesn't stop at all locations.

X77: This route should be looked at as it would make service faster on Belmont, and this route can continue straight on Belmont and not go to pick up the 500,000 people who cram the bus at the Kimball Blue Line stop. Leave that for the local bus service, and as long as the 77 is being discussed, put some 60' buses on the route... maybe every other bus or every two buses idea(40', 60', 40' or 40', 40', 60', 40' 40'...).

BRT's I don't see workable in Chicago anywhere, especially when you need to order special 60' buses with exits on both sides. That's a waste of money, and what if the service is cut due to funding, ridership, etc...? Those buses can be used, but might need to be rebuilt to eliminate the extra left-hand doors. Extra $$ the CTA doesn't have here. The Express routes can work with BRT technology perhaps where they can change lights at intersections with a sensor that will start a 15 second countdown as the bus is about 1/4 mile from the light(provided no emergency vehicles are present-running with lights and sirens will deactivate the sensors until they leave the area. Railroads will have priority as well, so cars aren't dumped onto railroad crossings as they are activating causing them to be stuck between the gates causing a possible fatal situation.)

If anything.... Lincoln should be returned fully.

[Busjack]

...

Other thoughts...

X routes that could stand returning/being made...

...

X49: I could see this route returning, but it'll need to be rethought as the bus terminated at 95th/Evergreen Plaza. Maybe it can terminate at 79th with the local 49 or perhaps another location that this bus can terminate

X56: I can see this route coming as Milwaukee is a long route and it would save time having service that doesn't stop at all locations....

X49: There might have once been justification for it going to Evergreen Plaza, but between the 49A being canceled and Evergreen Plaza apparently turning into a dead mall, the justification is no longer there, so I agree with this one.

X56: Totally defies the theory that X routes are needed only where there isn't rapid transit service. As I noted previously, that may be justification for canning 56 entirely, but that isn't going to happen, either.

...

BRT's I don't see workable in Chicago anywhere, especially when you need to order special 60' buses with exits on both sides. ...

I agree, and for that reason that the not awarded contract for 50-150 articulated buses is now not needed, and the solicitation was out there only for the pipe dream of the Ashland BRT. CTA should just exercise the option for the 150 40 foot buses, and hold the solicitation for the articulated buses for the very unlikely possibility that the Ashland BRT will be funded.

[jajuan]

X49: There might have once been justification for it going to Evergreen Plaza, but between the 49A being canceled and Evergreen Plaza apparently turning into a dead mall, the justification is no longer there, so I agree with this one.

X56: Totally defies the theory that X routes are needed only where there isn't rapid transit service. As I noted previously, that may be justification for canning 56 entirely, but that isn't going to happen.

Unless Wicker Park, Logan Square and other points moving northwest see big population declines that impact boardings, we should probably forget about the 56 getting canned because despite paralleling the upper leg of the Blue Line it does have solid passenger loads in its current service times. As the 3, 4, 29 and 62 have shown, a bus route and rapid transit line being parallels to each other (true ones and not b.s grabbing at straw ones like Claypool did with the 11 and the Brown Line) isn't necessarily good enough justification alone to can a bus route. We do need to be realistic that people actually do ride CTA to destinations close to a rail line that are situated at spots in between two adjacent stations and stations are not always that close together. It's a matter of balancing the right service times for the bus if the bus gets kept (i.e. the 29 not having owl service since the Red Line makes a good substitute for that or the flip relationship between 62 and the Orange Line, the 62 having owl service as the Orange Line doesn't).

[TripleTransit1]

Umm, I feel like this topic is duplicating my topic that I created last year...

And it's somewhat similar to my topic about what would happen if people on this forum ran CTA for 1 day.

[garmon757]

And it's somewhat similar to my topic about what would happen if people on this forum ran CTA for 1 day.

Fair enough!

[BusHunter]

Well I would increase frequencies right off the bat. Non rush service is terrible, taking me to the point of choosing a more frequent route and walking (what I chose) or waiting the 20-30 minutes for a slow bus. I ride alot of #77's cause it's like the only route that runs out west on a halfway decent basis after 8PM but even that route can have ridiculous headways. The "L" is far superior to the bus and I can see the point made on Redeye that people are moving closer to "L" stops and abandoning the bus. There is also the option of driving to the "L" stop. Remember how CTA did a "we're increasing frequencies and adding buses initiative." They should do another one.

And those X routes, I can't stress this enough to bring them back, even on a limited scale is better than nothing. I would even be in favor of a slight service cut for a faster bus cause now we can time when we need to be at a stop for Bustracker.

[MRM]

I have two ideas. What do you think?

1. "Yellow" line branch from Howard. It would turn south on the vacant rail ROW at the water treatment plant. Stops at Lincolnwood Town Center, Devon, Foster, and Montrose Blue Line. This would provide people on the north side with rail access to OHare. It would improve the functionality of all buses and rail lines that service Howard. (Also metra stops could be added to Howard for UP-N and Montrose for UP-NW)

2. Kensingtion super station.

• All Amtrak from the south/east would stop at this station.
• A major intercity bus station could be built for Megabus, greyhound, charter bus, anyone. (easy highway access)
• South Shore Line would stop.
• Two additional commuter lines are proposed that could stop at this station
• The Red Line South extension could stop here
• Pace and CTA busses could stop here
• It would add jobs to a community that needs them
• While I do not love parking lots at transit stations, there is plenty of land and it would take pressure off Union Station, also the easy highway access would make car + train a good option for many people.
• Could someday connect to south suburban airport (although I dont think this will ever really be built)
• With so many services in one location, express service to the loop would be very valuable
• Some day High Speed Rail could stop here
• Could have a car rental facility
• This would also take some pressure off 95th st station

Both of these ideas could be done in stages. Initial upgrades to Metra stations could be done today. Long term projects like HSR and RLE would be planned for with space and ROW.

[Busjack]

I have two ideas. What do you think?

1. "Yellow" line branch from Howard. It would turn south on the vacant rail ROW at the water treatment plant. Stops at Lincolnwood Town Center, Devon, Foster, and Montrose Blue Line. This would provide people on the north side with rail access to OHare. It would improve the functionality of all buses and rail lines that service Howard. (Also metra stops could be added to Howard for UP-N and Montrose for UP-NW)

2. Kensingtion super station.

• All Amtrak from the south/east would stop at this station.
• A major intercity bus station could be built for Megabus, greyhound, charter bus, anyone. (easy highway access)
• South Shore Line would stop.
• Two additional commuter lines are proposed that could stop at this station
• The Red Line South extension could stop here
• Pace and CTA busses could stop here
• It would add jobs to a community that needs them
• While I do not love parking lots at transit stations, there is plenty of land and it would take pressure off Union Station, also the easy highway access would make car + train a good option for many people.
• Could someday connect to south suburban airport (although I dont think this will ever really be built)
• With so many services in one location, express service to the loop would be very valuable
• Some day High Speed Rail could stop here
• Could have a car rental facility
• This would also take some pressure off 95th st station

Both of these ideas could be done in stages. Initial upgrades to Metra stations could be done today. Long term projects like HSR and RLE would be planned for with space and ROW.

1. CTA itself has had all sorts of fantasies about connecting something else to the Blue Line at Jeff Park or Montrose (i.e. a Brown Line subway under Lawrence, or along the Comm Ed right of way from Dempster-Skokie southbound, or the Mid City Line south along 4600 west to the Ford City area). While I agree that access to O'Hare from north of Foster could be better, I don't see (after the Old Orchard extension of the Yellow Line was shot down) CTA proposing anything that would primarily serve suburban ridership or low transit utilization parts of the city. Personally, I don't see where there is the room to build anything around Montrose to connect to the Blue Line.
2. Something like the Kensington superstation was proposed in connection with the Red Line to 130th extension, but the current thinking is that there is plenty of city owned vacant land for a transit center at 115th between Michigan and State. Connecting with Metra in the outlying area is not a priority with the CTA.
3. The South Shore line will not stop, because they built a bypass around Kensington, to connect with the easternmost northbound track. The first stop is essentially 57th (schedule).
4. The current CREATE plan is that high speed rail would go over to the Norfolk Southern right of way, in the case of trains from Champaign, with a flyover at Grand Crossing. Not clear from your reference whether your concept of high speed is via that alignment or the UP alignment where the 130th Red Line extension is supposed to be built.
5. If transit oriented development is supposed to be the answer for Roseland, I think Emanuel would have found a private partner after 3-1/2 years of looking.
6. On pressure off the 95th station, I don't see why they are doubling the bus terminal capacity at 95th if they intend the 130th extension, but they are spending $240 million of mostly borrowed money to expand that bus terminal.

[westing]

Here's a few ideas I've thought would help out greatly

Buses carry so much of the CTA's ridership but get no dedicated ROW on Michigan Ave. Instead of fighting with taxis for the curb lane, extend lower Michigan to LSD and make it bus only. Having only a few stations like Water Tower Place, Huron, Grand, and S. Water would speed up operations. I'm thinking something like Seattle's Transit Tunnel. Hybrid buses could go into "hush" mode and run off battery power. Stations would have pre-paid and level boarding.

Another idea is to have the Purple line run into the subway to Roosevelt. This would add needed capacity to the Red line during rush periods. Brown Line service would be beefed up with more trains interlined with Midway (assuming the bypass is built). This would probably require the subway to have an enhanced signal system to handle that load.

The number of people working in River North is growing. It would make sense to create a terminal north of the river again, this time elevated along Franklin south of Hubbard, providing a connection with the Mart. Something like 5 - 8 trains a rush period could use this station. Currently three to four trains can go by before passengers at Merchandise Mart or Chicago can board Brown and Purple line trains and they're always crush loaded.

[Busjack]

Here's a few ideas I've thought would help out greatly

Buses carry so much of the CTA's ridership but get no dedicated ROW on Michigan Ave. Instead of fighting with taxis for the curb lane, extend lower Michigan to LSD and make it bus only. Having only a few stations like Water Tower Place, Huron, Grand, and S. Water would speed up operations. I'm thinking something like Seattle's Transit Tunnel. Hybrid buses could go into "hush" mode and run off battery power. Stations would have pre-paid and level boarding.

Another idea is to have the Purple line run into the subway to Roosevelt. This would add needed capacity to the Red line during rush periods. Brown Line service would be beefed up with more trains interlined with Midway (assuming the bypass is built). This would probably require the subway to have an enhanced signal system to handle that load.

The number of people working in River North is growing. It would make sense to create a terminal north of the river again, this time elevated along Franklin south of Hubbard, providing a connection with the Mart. Something like 5 - 8 trains a rush period could use this station. Currently three to four trains can go by before passengers at Merchandise Mart or Chicago can board Brown and Purple line trains and they're always crush loaded.

Problem with your #1 is that the double decking (and thus the lower level) ends at Grand. You would have to dig a subway from there to LSD to achieve what you want. Go down and look around Billy Goat's and Nordstrom.

Your #2 has been proposed by others, and if the Purple becomes the express for the Red probably will happen. I believe that it was also proposed as part of the Circle Line plan.

I don't think CTA is interested in trains short of the :Loop, having discarded that idea in about 1948. I also doubt that Brown Line riders want to stand on the southbound platform trying to decide if a train is going to go through, although that would be possible. CTA would also have to condemn air rights over Franklin.

[strictures]

I would have preferred that the west leg of The Loop L had been relocated to Clinton St., so there would have been direct rail access to the two largest train stations.

I would have moved the tracks to Orleans St. & then a high level fixed bridge of the river, eliminating the need to ever open it for boats, solving that problem.

With the new Wolf Point buildings, that will become very difficult.

[Busjack]

I would have preferred that the west leg of The Loop L had been relocated to Clinton St., so there would have been direct rail access to the two largest train stations.

I would have moved the tracks to Orleans St. & then a high level fixed bridge of the river, eliminating the need to ever open it for boats, solving that problem.

With the new Wolf Point buildings, that will become very difficult.

There was, at some time, a plan for a triple level subway under Clinton, with the Red Line going from North Ave. to Chinatown that way, plus another level for Amtrak. I'm not sure what was planned for the third level, such as the trolley via the north bank of the Chicago River to the Navy Pier or Trump Tower area.

As you can guess from the scope of the project, nobody came up with the money or willpower to do it.

As with the other L above, the easements of light and air would have to be condemned, especially since the Clinton St. area has been redeveloped.

However, that subway proposal raises an interesting question: Is State Street a real destination at this point, since that area has basically been turned into a college town, with the only shopping Macy's (where a real Chicagoan will not shop)?

[Tcmetro]

If we are gonna throw random ideas out, I've got one.

A new subway line beginning at Jefferson Park, along Lawrence to Kimball, take over the Brown Line to Clark Jct, new subway transfer at Belmont, subway under Clark to Larrabee to Clinton to serve the West Loop, then to Chinatown.

This would allow a change on the North Side Main Line to operate frequent, all day express trains. I suppose which trains would go to Linden, which would go to the Dan Ryan Line, which would take the subway or the L downtown all depend on ridership patterns.

[Busjack]

If we are gonna throw random ideas out, I've got one.

A new subway line beginning at Jefferson Park, along Lawrence to Kimball, take over the Brown Line to Clark Jct, new subway transfer at Belmont, subway under Clark to Larrabee to Clinton to serve the West Loop, then to Chinatown.

This would allow a change on the North Side Main Line to operate frequent, all day express trains. I suppose which trains would go to Linden, which would go to the Dan Ryan Line, which would take the subway or the L downtown all depend on ridership patterns.

If you read my comments above, that suggestion isn't new, although it strings together several others.

However, something in the CMAQ list you posted is:

State Street/Lake Street Station Reconstruction CTA Loop Elevated

That eyesore should have been removed at least 50 years ago. There is mention about a new entrance in an adjoining building. One thing they should make sure is that the transfer to the Red Line subway is as convenient as the transfer to the Blue Line at Clark and Lake.

[Tcmetro]

I've been digging around on the CMAQ webpage (http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/mobility/strategic-investment/cmaq) to find more info about some of these projects. Looks like they only approved $4 million for the State/Lake project for 2017, a far cry from the $88.6 million budget. In any case, the consultants will have work at least. Hopefully this project can get some more funds in the next round of CMAQ, which is supposed to start accepting project applications next month.

Proposed CMAQ budget with breakdown: http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/37856/FY14-18_Proposed_Program_All_8-2-13.pdf/6745d8b9-e4bc-494e-a331-b6af8c801cb2

Final CMAQ budget summary: http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/37856/CMAQ_FY14-18_program_approved_13-10-17.pdf/98fe92f5-3122-4cab-b016-fc33122be8e7

I'm surprised CTA hasn't been more proactive in getting the State/Lake station reconstructed. I read about an old plan from the 90s to create a "superstation" to replace 3 Loop stations, so I guess it's another classic case of changing the plan at the last minute. I wonder if/when LaSalle/Van Buren will ever be tackled, but at this rate probably another couple of decades.

[Busjack]

I've been digging around on the CMAQ webpage (http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/mobility/strategic-investment/cmaq) to find more info about some of these projects. Looks like they only approved $4 million for the State/Lake project for 2017, a far cry from the $88.6 million budget. In any case, the consultants will have work at least. Hopefully this project can get some more funds in the next round of CMAQ, which is supposed to start accepting project applications next month.

Proposed CMAQ budget with breakdown: http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/37856/FY14-18_Proposed_Program_All_8-2-13.pdf/6745d8b9-e4bc-494e-a331-b6af8c801cb2

Final CMAQ budget summary: http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/37856/CMAQ_FY14-18_program_approved_13-10-17.pdf/98fe92f5-3122-4cab-b016-fc33122be8e7

I'm surprised CTA hasn't been more proactive in getting the State/Lake station reconstructed. I read about an old plan from the 90s to create a "superstation" to replace 3 Loop stations, so I guess it's another classic case of changing the plan at the last minute. I wonder if/when LaSalle/Van Buren will ever be tackled, but at this rate probably another couple of decades.

On any of these, the question is whether the CMAQ is just a "kicker." For instance the Washington Wabash station is on this list (presumably the Superstation, because it combines Randolph and Madison), but much of the money is TIF. After talking about it for 3 years, it finally looks like it is getting started.

But in this case, the document you originally posted indicates that construction starts in FY 2016, and they want $70 million from CMAQ. Of course, you have to ask before you receive, but doesn't necessarily mean you will get.

[Busjack]

Looks like Wally's now working for the CTA.

[rvwnsd]

Looks like Wally's now working for the CTA.

Amazing how something occurs in my work life and the next thing I know it happens in Dilbert. I've wondered whether Scott Adams follows every man, woman, and child around every moment of every day.

Now on to some strategic planning! Wouldn't it be cool if CTA started hot air balloon shuttle service from the Ogilvie Transit Center to the Museum Campus?