5000-series - Updates

[Guest]

I say they look like the 6000 series because if you look at their end caps and the end caps on the 5000's you'll notice the similarities in their design not talking about the headlights I'm talking about mainly the windows lol for example. If you notice the 26 and 3200 windows have like a out line on their windows while the 6000 and 5000's don't. To me the 5000's are like updated version of the 6000's. Also I wanted to say something else not relating to my previous statement I think the next order of trains should be dedicated to the older cars as far as their exterior design is concerned for example the nexts cars should resemble the 2000's (besides the blinker doors of course). Cta has a history of re numbering new buses and trains so why don't they design newer train cars in memory of classic trains such as the 6000's and 2000's.

Ill have to take a closer look at the 5000 end caps. I agree with your entire statement, but in reference to your statement about recreating CTA history, I think we all know with CTA, that's a very highly unlikely thought. CTA dosen't seem to make much of an effort to preserve its history. Like NYC Transit with its subway museum or its large historical bus collection. CTA management are not transit professionals, even if they came from entry level CTA positions. Management is mostly made up of Daley cronies and politically aquired positions. Absolutely, not one transit professional in the bunch! CTA management is all about Covering Their Ass!

Ok, so they have a few historical buses and very few railcars in their collection, Big Deal!! They do absolutely nothing to show the public its beginnings and I think its important that the public gets a little taste of how our transit systems have evolved over its 100+ year history. New York City does an outstanding job of it, but Chicago! Forget it!.

[Busjack]

I say they look like the 6000 series because if you look at their end caps and the end caps on the 5000's you'll notice the similarities in their design not talking about the headlights I'm talking about mainly the windows lol for example. If you notice the 26 and 3200 windows have like a out line on their windows while the 6000 and 5000's don't. To me the 5000's are like updated version of the 6000's. Also I wanted to say something else not relating to my previous statement I think the next order of trains should be dedicated to the older cars as far as their exterior design is concerned for example the nexts cars should resemble the 2000's (besides the blinker doors of course). Cta has a history of re numbering new buses and trains so why don't they design newer train cars in memory of classic trains such as the 6000's and 2000's.

• In one sense, all cars look something like the 6000s, because that's when CTA went from a more traditional railroad look to the streetcar look, and standardized the dimensions of the cars. However, one sure can't base a 5000 as looking like a 6000 based on the windows, given that the 6000s had lift windows.
• As far as an homage to history, the consensus on this forum is that the 5000s look too much like the 3200s, especially on the inside, when Huberman floated other design concepts.
• For cost reasons, CTA is not going to have a tribute to the past by, for instance, acquiring car bodies that need painting. The one effort in that regard was the centennial South Side Rapid Transit paint on a 2000 set, and that doesn't look right to me. The exterior is going to be whatever stainless steel body is available on the world market, and with capital funds being scarce, CTA is not going to the extra expense of demanding a custom job much different than what it already has.
• The numbers on the buses (and I assume the trains) have no real significance except as placeholders in the equipment database. One can't argue that a current 1000 has any relationship to a 1972 GM 1000 or a 1948 Twin Coach gas 1000, or a 6400 has any relationship to a 1940s Yellow/GMC or a 1950s railcar.

[BusHunter]

That might've been Busjack(he mentioned something about 60 cars to the Brown Line). As far as some 5000's going to the Brown Line, I'd say yes because they are still due "X" amount for expansion since becoming an 8-car capable line. My original theory was that the 5000's move to Brown and Orange, and the 3200's move to Blue, Green and Purple to replace the 2200's and 2400's. But that theory is not appearing likely now, since the 5000's are slated to replace the 2200's on the Blue Line and the 2400's on the Green and Purple. The first 150-200 of the 2600's are getting close to 30 yrs old, so their retirement should* start in the next few years. If the CTA is committed to fleet management now, and not 'a band-aid here, a band-aid there', then the 2600's total retirement should be by 2017*(last group turns 30) and the 3200's total retirement should be 2024*(last group turns 30).

*= If the CTA has the capital funding to order more railcars

Historically, CTA has mainly replaced railcars at the 40 year mark or greater. If you go back to the #4000 series or wood cars the replacement goes upwards of 50 years. The only exception being the #2000's (which were around 29-30 years) but I believe that series never got any rehabs like the #2200 series or #2600's. Saying that I would say the #2600's will completely retire in the 2020's decade. Even though a few #2600's may go away for the 706 car order (about 360 if they retire all pre #2600's railcars) some may come back for the three CTA expansions slated for 2016. It all depends which will happen first the end of the order or end of the expansion project.

[Busjack]

Historically, CTA has mainly replaced railcars at the 40 year mark or greater. If you go back to the #4000 series or wood cars the replacement goes upwards of 50 years. The only exception being the #2000's (which were around 29-30 years) but I believe that series never got any rehabs like the #2200 series or #2600's.

CTA keeps saying that the FTA lifetime of a rail car is 30 years, but obviously, due to various issues, CTA cars have gone longer. Of course, in this instance, if they had a viable RFP in 2002, instead of delaying the award until 2006, because the carbuilders wouldn't bid on the DC traction specs, and it appears that Bombadier was a year late in getting out the prototypes, the result was that the 2200s will be around a lot longer than anyone figured.

Krambles's take on the 2000s is that they needed motor overhauls, because most were wrecked in the 1979 blizzard, and since they were service headaches later, may as well dispose of them. However, in his 1992 book, he really didn't foresee that the 3200s would be the end of them.

As far as predicting the future, it doesn't pay to do so with this order, especially given such things are the airport express. The only thing that could be said is that if this is like most option contracts, in that the options are good for 5 years after the notice to proceed, this contract runs out one way or the other by about 2015. If CTA gets all 706, that takes care of 706 out of 1190 cars, not to mention any fleet increase. That might get you into about half of the 2600s.

[BusHunter]

I say they look like the 6000 series because if you look at their end caps and the end caps on the 5000's you'll notice the similarities in their design not talking about the headlights I'm talking about mainly the windows lol for example. If you notice the 26 and 3200 windows have like a out line on their windows while the 6000 and 5000's don't. To me the 5000's are like updated version of the 6000's. Also I wanted to say something else not relating to my previous statement I think the next order of trains should be dedicated to the older cars as far as their exterior design is concerned for example the nexts cars should resemble the 2000's (besides the blinker doors of course). Cta has a history of re numbering new buses and trains so why don't they design newer train cars in memory of classic trains such as the 6000's and 2000's.

The way the "L" system is set up to receive 40 foot cars, alot of the cars would look similar if you looked at them at a structural level, but technologies have changed since the 1950's. The 6000's are basically a PCC streetcar retrofitted to be an "L" car. So they have that vintage quality to them. For instance all roll signs are manual crank controlled and even the lower two lights on the train car ends have to be manually changed to go from green to red. The #5000's are basically a reflection of the computer age that we are all moving toward. In the operator's cab one can see what is happening with each car mechanically through a small computer screen and the train car is basically being ran more by computer with a human driver, but probably soon in the next 20 years the cars will be completely automated like the O'hare people mover is now. (I believe I read somewhere one of the rapid transit lines in NYC has no operator)

[Mr.cta85]

I think I should have been more detailed about my comparisons with the 5 and 6000 series looking alike. I was talking about their end caps only not including the lights just the over all look of them lol but still I appreciate every thing you guys said as I stated before you all know so much about cta. When I was talkin about future car designed to resemble the past car I was still basically talkin about their end caps I'm pretty sure the sides of the train cars would be like those of the 3200 and 5000 series with the stainless steel and all but I figured it shouldn't cost much or nothing at all for the cta to have at least the end caps to resemble past cars. I guess you can say I was thinking out loud when it came to something like that because that would be something personally I would like to see.

[Busjack]

In that some L cars have composite caps, I suppose anything is possible with regard to how they are molded. However, except for 2000s having obvious molded contours, I see nothing to get that excited about, especially since the red white and blue of the 2400s has been coated over.

Refreshing my recollection by looking at chicago-l.org, I personally don't see anything different between the ends of a 3200 and 5000, except what is necessary to accommodate LEDs.

[artthouwill]

Today around 11 a.m., I got to ride the new train on the Blue Line from Harlem (Forest Pk branch) to Western. Car 5010 was the lead car. However, the female operator did not seem comfortable with this train whatsoever. She seemed to stop short of her intended target at every station (the cab signal made her stop short at Western only), then she had to inch and stop, sometimes two and three times until she got where she wanted before opening the doors. After I got off, I asked her a question twice while standing in front of her while she was operating the doors. It was like I wasn't even there. Ironically, I briefly overheard a conversation on a passenger's cell phone. From that call I was able to deduce that he works for CTA, and someone (who, I don't know) wasn't much inclined nor took any initiative to learn anything about the new cars. Could he have been referring to the current operator? I don't know, but certainly is possible. I guess it is to be expected since this was the very first day on the Blue Line. By the way, I also rode it Friday evening on the Green Line and the male operator operated the train like it was a 2400 series train. So maybe by week 5 of Blue LIne testing, the operators will be much more comfortable with it.

[Busjack]

...She seemed to stop short of her intended target at every station (the cab signal made her stop short at Western only), then she had to inch and stop, sometimes two and three times until she got where she wanted before opening the doors. After I got off, I asked her a question twice while standing in front of her while she was operating the doors. It was like I wasn't even there...

Someone reported something similar on the Red Line a couple of months ago, starting about here.

As far as not talking to you, one would hope that the operators are doing their job, first.

[Guest]

This morning I picked up two CTA motormen in Schaumburg, they were all hyped up about the first day of test operation of the 5000s on the Blue Line.

[toppdawg12]

As far as setting the 5000s apart from the 3200s in the production order, maybe unique end treatments on the order of those now used in New York City(both 'A' and 'B' Divisions - I think those are cool)could be implemented. That would seem to be a relatively inexpensive modification that would facilitate the mixing of AC and DC powered cars with no accidental coupling attempts at a given terminal. At the same time, they would say to the public "Hey, these are new, different, more modern cars." The NYC cars accomplish that while staying with the same basic body styles. I can also tell Mr. Rodriguez(sic)where to send the check for my consulting services.

[Guest]

CTA keeps saying that the FTA lifetime of a rail car is 30 years, but obviously, due to various issues, CTA cars have gone longer. Of course, in this instance, if they had a viable RFP in 2002, instead of delaying the award until 2006, because the carbuilders wouldn't bid on the DC traction specs, and it appears that Bombadier was a year late in getting out the prototypes, the result was that the 2200s will be around a lot longer than anyone figured.

Krambles's take on the 2000s is that they needed motor overhauls, because most were wrecked in the 1979 blizzard, and since they were service headaches later, may as well dispose of them. However, in his 1992 book, he really didn't foresee that the 3200s would be the end of them.

As far as predicting the future, it doesn't pay to do so with this order, especially given such things are the airport express. The only thing that could be said is that if this is like most option contracts, in that the options are good for 5 years after the notice to proceed, this contract runs out one way or the other by about 2015. If CTA gets all 706, that takes care of 706 out of 1190 cars, not to mention any fleet increase. That might get you into about half of the 2600s.

Its just incredible how these railcars, whether CTA or Metra, can stay in operation for more than 40 years given the bad summer and bad winter climates they have to contend with each year of service, not to mention the pounding they take because of the day to day operation. .

[BusHunter]

Today around 11 a.m., I got to ride the new train on the Blue Line from Harlem (Forest Pk branch) to Western. Car 5010 was the lead car. However, the female operator did not seem comfortable with this train whatsoever. She seemed to stop short of her intended target at every station (the cab signal made her stop short at Western only), then she had to inch and stop, sometimes two and three times until she got where she wanted before opening the doors. After I got off, I asked her a question twice while standing in front of her while she was operating the doors. It was like I wasn't even there. Ironically, I briefly overheard a conversation on a passenger's cell phone. From that call I was able to deduce that he works for CTA, and someone (who, I don't know) wasn't much inclined nor took any initiative to learn anything about the new cars. Could he have been referring to the current operator? I don't know, but certainly is possible. I guess it is to be expected since this was the very first day on the Blue Line. By the way, I also rode it Friday evening on the Green Line and the male operator operated the train like it was a 2400 series train. So maybe by week 5 of Blue LIne testing, the operators will be much more comfortable with it.

There was the same stopping short problem on one of the afternoon trains. It most likely is just the operator getting used to the new equipment, like when you drive a new car or truck you may be cautious at first, but get more confident with it later on. Same thing can be said about her not talking to you. She obviously was very focused on the train car so much so she didn't see you or hear you. It's like working the first day on a complicated job, you look up and wonder what happened to those last two hours. Yesterday, I took a complete round trip (about 3 hours of my time) I noticed at O'hare so many people were boarding with carry on bags and placing them in front of them on the longitudinal seats that you couldn't walk up the aisles that well. Some spots were only a foot wide. There were many CTA employees on the cars at O'hare about 1 per car. I spotted at least 3 sitting in different motor cabs. Mechanically the trains performed well, but I seemed to notice a slight vibration on the Kennedy corridor only noticeable at high speeds. We can only wonder what will happen when they get to 70 mph. On the last descent right before Belmont SB there was a little jerkiness, but it appeared to be some kind of power issue there with the third rail like a surge or something. Surprisingly the smoothest ride was in the dearborn subway. On the Congress leg there was some real nasty vertical bouncing of the rail car at the ex California station WB. I thought the guy next to me was going to jump out of his seat. I'm not joking. The EB trip was very smooth on the Congress and (NB)O'hare though.

[Mr.cta85]

Today around 11:00 am I was driving on 290 heading east when I saw the 5000's on the Blue Line heading to O'hare. And this was my 1st time seeing them without cars 5009 and 5010 and to be honest the train as a whole looked a lot better without them lol I really do hope they make cars 5009 and 5010 like the rest of the fleet cause that's just too much.

[Busjack]

Today around 11:00 am I was driving on 290 heading east when I saw the 5000's on the Blue Line heading to O'hare. And this was my 1st time seeing them without cars 5009 and 5010 and to be honest the train as a whole looked a lot better without them lol I really do hope they make cars 5009 and 5010 like the rest of the fleet cause that's just too much.

It's just a wrap, which can be pulled.

[Mr.cta85]

It's just a wrap, which can be pulled.

Yeah I know that's why I can't wait till they are removed because it's just too much lol we all understand it's for advertisement but I think we all get that they (the 5000's) are "the new kids on the block" by now.

[Busjack]

Yeah I know that's why I can't wait till they are removed because it's just too much lol we all understand it's for advertisement but I think we all get that they (the 5000's) are "the new kids on the block" by now.

The railfan here might, but the average Blue Line rider, probably not. Of course, probably all they care about is if they get to their destination.

[Guest]

Here are some pics I shot this morning of #5000s at Rosemont on my way to DuPage Fairgrounds/Train Show. Mr. CTA, I see your point to the end caps resembling the 6000s.

[jajuan]

Got a chance to ride them on the Blue Line Thursday night. What few passengers were aboard the car I was on, given the time of evening, seemed to be impressed overall and liked that it had the visual display that scrolls the next stop along with Mr CTA's verbal announcement. I must say the new cars do give a smoother ride and are a lot quieter inside the downtown subway. Also it appeared this operator was more comfortable operating the train. He wasn't stopping short of the stations like the female operator mentioned earlier in the week. He was making steady decelerations into each station.

[sw4400]

It's getting close to the time to switch lines again... the Blue Line started with the 5000's on August 2nd, and August 22 marks the end of week three, August 28 marks the end of week four. So either this weekend or next weekend, the railcars should be transferred to another line.

[nflyer22]

What's interesting about this phase of the testing is that (according to CTA rail staff) this phase of the testing is scheduled to last from Monday, August 2 through Saturday, September 4. That's 5 weeks of Blue Line testing, not 4, as has been the case with the Red and Green Lines.

Actually, the 5000s are here until, at latest, Saturday, September 4th, since they are being tested on the Blue Line for 5 weeks, rather than the usual 4 back on the Red and Green Lines, according to greenstreet. Of course, only someone from the CTA will truly decide how long they will stay on each line.

[Railwaymodeler]

I saw an eight car train on the Blue Line this past Wednesday. Dad and I were driving home from Chicago, and I got a bit excited when I saw a whole 8-car train of 5000 series, and told him these are the new El cars. He liked the car at one end that had the large CTA logo.

I take it this is a testing train?

[artthouwill]

Yesterday afternoon, I caught the 5000 series train from Clinton WB to Forest Park around1:45P. Car 5009 was the lead car, and door #2 in that car was not operating at all. Operator was very comfortable with train. I did feel a slight vibration at higher speeds along the Ike, though. Other than that, a normal train ride.

[BusHunter]

Yesterday afternoon, I caught the 5000 series train from Clinton WB to Forest Park around1:45P. Car 5009 was the lead car, and door #2 in that car was not operating at all. Operator was very comfortable with train. I did feel a slight vibration at higher speeds along the Ike, though. Other than that, a normal train ride.

At least you had an 8 car train yesterday. The blue line was running 4 car trains. The 4 car trains get ridiculously crowded leaving the downtown stations en route to O'hare. I don't know why they just don't run 8 cars on the weekend. The 8 car train was much more spacious than the 4, but it wasn't empty either en route to Forest Pk.

[greenstreet]

It's getting close to the time to switch lines again... the Blue Line started with the 5000's on August 2nd, and August 22 marks the end of week three, August 28 marks the end of week four. So either this weekend or next weekend, the railcars should be transferred to another line.

The bulletin instructing that the 5000's will remain in revenue service on the Blue Line until September 4 is still in effect.