5000-series - Updates

[Mr.cta85]

Hey does anybody know what line the 5000's will be on next?? I saw them on the Red Line 95th terminal a few days ago but haven't seen them since then.

[BusHunter]

Today I saw the 2600s on the Green Line, cars 3119-20, 3149-50, and two others. My guess is that they are loaners because I saw some 2400s on the Blue Line (looks like it is a work train). No sign of the 5000s on the Red Line today for any testing.

#3068-67 and #3096-95 have been sitting in the midway yard coupled together for about 2 or 3 weeks, complete with there blue signs. There were some #2400's parked at desplaines yard last week, but they were the work cars. There appears to be some ongoing overnight construction on the forest Park branch. Those additional tracks 5750 was talking about a couple weeks ago at Western are staging some work equipment if you pass by the area. It appears to be track straighteners and tie laying equipment. I know the WB track conditions were really bouncy last time I passed through there. There probably trying to fix that. As far as the #5000's, sounds like there going to be testing well into the spring next year. Bombardier though seems to be building the cars, if you look closely at the president's visit to the plant, you can see cars built without the seats but with the doors built on, but the cars were unnumbered. The cars seem to be at least in a preliminary building state. I wouldn't doubt we see a flood of cars in the late winter or early spring once the testing is over.

[sw4400]

It seems like the 5000's have fallen off the face of the CTA Earth(at least for the moment). I wonder if some more defects might've popped up, beside the aforementioned LED Sign troubles.

[Kevin]

Orange Line starting Oct 25

[artthouwill]

Orange Line starting Oct 25

They should blend in with the 3200s. I guess this is also a great time to see how these cars handled massive slow zones.

[rmadisonwi]

They should blend in with the 3200s. I guess this is also a great time to see how these cars handled massive slow zones.

My guess would be, by going slow?

[Mr.cta85]

5000's going to the Orange Line that's cool. Hey I've been noticing this connection between the Brown and Orange line that brings me to this question which is...Is is possible the Brown and Orange line will merge into 1 line like instead of it just starting from Midway to the Loop then back to Midway It would go from Midway to Kimball?? I personally think that would be great on so many levels.

[Guest]

It seems like the 5000's have fallen off the face of the CTA Earth(at least for the moment). I wonder if some more defects might've popped up, beside the aforementioned LED Sign troubles.

LED signs have always been and will continue to be troublesome. They should eliminate this technology and allow transit systems to go back to the old mylar curtin signs. Those never malfunctioned!.

[teck22]

LED signs have always been and will continue to be troublesome. They should eliminate this technology and allow transit systems to go back to the old mylar curtin signs. Those never malfunctioned!.

Well they both have issues, i mean how many times have you seen a red line for example have a car read Howard on 3 signs and 95th on the fourth

[rmadisonwi]

5000's going to the Orange Line that's cool. Hey I've been noticing this connection between the Brown and Orange line that brings me to this question which is...Is is possible the Brown and Orange line will merge into 1 line like instead of it just starting from Midway to the Loop then back to Midway It would go from Midway to Kimball?? I personally think that would be great on so many levels.

It might be "great" for folks from the north side wanting a one-seat ride to Midway, but there's simply no way to through-route those two routes without essentially screwing one side of the loop. That, right there, is the reason it hasn't been done already.

LED signs have always been and will continue to be troublesome. They should eliminate this technology and allow transit systems to go back to the old mylar curtin signs. Those never malfunctioned!.

Never malfunctioned, except when they ripped. Or when they needed to be updated and the system has to spend thousands of dollars on materials and much more on labor physically replacing every sign roll.

In reality, there's nothing disallowing transit systems today from going back to roll signs, as long as they can develop such a sign that still meets ADA requirements. Nonetheless, based on my experience, it seems that only CTA has as many problems with brand new electronic signs as they do. Other cities I visit generally seem to have better than 95% of their signs working.

I was just in Philadelphia and New York. The signs there work fine. I frequently visit Milwaukee. The signs there work. Signs work in other places. Actually, as it stands now, it seems that CTA's signs are working for the most part, though that is something that tends to go in streaks.

[BusHunter]

Some of the #5000's on the Orange line still have the blue line car cards on them. I spotted them on #5004-03 and #5011-12 at least. In other unrelated rail news, #3150-49 and #3139-40 was on the green line yesterday. I'm surprised the blue line has that many cars to spare. I believe those four I reported before are still at Midway.

[Amtrak41]

If on the Orange, can I assume they would never be assigned to the "Brownage" which may be an otherwise random drawing everyday ?

[toppdawg12]

If on the Orange, can I assume they would never be assigned to the "Brownage" which may be an otherwise random drawing everyday ?

I believe the "random" run is Midway #703, so I guess the 5000s can end up as a "Brownage" as easily any other consist.

[toppdawg12]

Now that I think of it, could the 3100s that appear on the Green Line be referred to as "Peen" trains? Or would that be "Grink?" What about the 3000s parked at Midway? Could they be "Blange" cars? The increase in "foreign road" rather harkens back to the days when stray 6000s occasionally ran away from their home routes.

[Guest DevalDragon]

I don't understand this - the Green line traverses the loop already; why couldn't the orange/brown line do this on the side the green does not use?

rmadisonwi said:

It might be "great" for folks from the north side wanting a one-seat ride to Midway, but there's simply no way to through-route those two routes without essentially screwing one side of the loop. That, right there, is the reason it hasn't been done already.

[BusExpert32]

I don't understand this - the Green line traverses the loop already; why couldn't the orange/brown line do this on the side the green does not use?

rmadisonwi said:

It might be "great" for folks from the north side wanting a one-seat ride to Midway, but there's simply no way to through-route those two routes without essentially screwing one side of the loop. That, right there, is the reason it hasn't been done already.

That idea would cause your "brownage" proposal to not serve the Clark/Lake station, and that would screw the connection between these lines and the blue line, so that would be a no also.

[nflyer22]

That idea would cause your "brownage" proposal to not serve the Clark/Lake station, and that would screw the connection between these lines and the blue line, so that would be a no also.

There's always the chance to transfer at the Harold Washington Library station to the Red and Blue Lines via Jackson.

[BusHunter]

The trouble also with the merge between the orange and brown lines is the brown line has more riders and more frequent service than the orange line. The only way I think they could possibly merge would be to make every other brown line continue to Midway. Anyone on the Wells and Van buren side would have to ride over to the other side, but northsiders could rely on the purple line in the rush and just transfer further up north on the brown/purple line.

[Mr.cta85]

The trouble also with the merge between the orange and brown lines is the brown line has more riders and more frequent service than the orange line. The only way I think they could possibly merge would be to make every other brown line continue to Midway. Anyone on the Wells and Van buren side would have to ride over to the other side, but northsiders could rely on the purple line in the rush and just transfer further up north on the brown/purple line.

Oh man this is good stuff guys so is it really a possibility of the cta emerging the Brown and Orange Line together? Cause if it is like I said before that would be great. Concering the Loop The "Brownage" line could run the way they do on the Brown line except it would be both directions. And like BusHunter said northsides could rely on the purple line durning rush hour and just transfer futher up north on the purple line.

[Amtrak41]

While the Brownage would produce a north-south side service imbalance, we already have that situation with the Red Line. Dan Ryan has nothing near the ridership of the Howard Line. But the Red has a single route down State St. Brownage has the thorny issue of whether to serve Wells or Wabash. Purple and Orange can't be merged because of 6 & 8 car trains, unless we degrade the Orange. There is still the issue of what to do in the Loop.

Then there's Purple/Pink, again a train length issue. If a southbound Purple became a westbound Pink at Tower 18, it would have to make a left turn from Wells onto Lake, causing congestion. Although Purple and Pink now encircle the Loop in the same direction, what direction around the Loop would an eastbound Pink to northbound Purple run in ? If in the same direction, it could cut some redundant train miles and congestion within the loop. Then we would have to call south & west Evanston/Lake trains Purple, and east/north ones Pink. More confusion that nobody but railfans would understand. I think WMATA did something like that in the 1980's with the Orange & Blue lines, but dropped it.

[sw4400]

Now if you want to consolidate rail lines, I can think of one.... the Yellow Line. This service can be merged with the Purple Line, so the Purple Local goes the normal route to Linden, but the Purple Express makes all express stops up to Howard, but then goes to Skokie instead of continuing to Linden. Maybe instead of the Purple Line Express, they can make it a different color... only colors I can think of are White, Black, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Grey. This should be possible to do, since there is a switch track at Howard for the Yellow, Red and Purple Lines.

[Mr.cta85]

While the Brownage would produce a north-south side service imbalance, we already have that situation with the Red Line. Dan Ryan has nothing near the ridership of the Howard Line. But the Red has a single route down State St. Brownage has the thorny issue of whether to serve Wells or Wabash. Purple and Orange can't be merged because of 6 & 8 car trains, unless we degrade the Orange. There is still the issue of what to do in the Loop.

Then there's Purple/Pink, again a train length issue. If a southbound Purple became a westbound Pink at Tower 18, it would have to make a left turn from Wells onto Lake, causing congestion. Although Purple and Pink now encircle the Loop in the same direction, what direction around the Loop would an eastbound Pink to northbound Purple run in ? If in the same direction, it could cut some redundant train miles and congestion within the loop. Then we would have to call south & west Evanston/Lake trains Purple, and east/north ones Pink. More confusion that nobody but railfans would understand. I think WMATA did something like that in the 1980's with the Orange & Blue lines, but dropped it.

We were talking about the Orange and Brown Lines not the Orange and Purple.

[ArcherRider]

My question is does the Orange Line run the 5000s on the weekend for testing?

[Busjack]

Now if you want to consolidate rail lines, I can think of one.... the Yellow Line. This service can be merged with the Purple Line, so the Purple Local goes the normal route to Linden, but the Purple Express makes all express stops up to Howard, but then goes to Skokie instead of continuing to Linden. Maybe instead of the Purple Line Express, they can make it a different color... only colors I can think of are White, Black, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Grey. This should be possible to do, since there is a switch track at Howard for the Yellow, Red and Purple Lines.

You were theorizing about cars coming off the roster--where are you going to get the additional 50 cars to run this (if it is an additional line)?

If you are, in effect, saying the Purple Line local "normal route" means only the shuttle between Howard and Linden should be retained at all times, including rush hour, then all you are offering is that instead of passengers transferring from the Purple Express to Skokie (which I often did) they have to transfer from the Purple Express to the Linden shuttle, then you are saying that more passengers would have to transfer, since Skokie now only supports 2 car trains on that branch, while Evanston supports 6 car trains. You would also have to lengthen the platform at Dempster-Skokie to handle the 6 car trains, not to mention whether there would be enough room between Oakton and Searle (at the station supposedly under construction) to build that long of a platform, or the need to lengthen the switchback track at Dempster into the street.

Hence, unless you have some real justification, other than being confusing, this makes no sense.

[sw4400]

You were theorizing about cars coming off the roster--where are you going to get the additional 50 cars to run this (if it is an additional line)?

If you are, in effect, saying the Purple Line local "normal route" means only the shuttle between Howard and Linden should be retained at all times, including rush hour, then all you are offering is that instead of passengers transferring from the Purple Express to Skokie (which I often did) they have to transfer from the Purple Express to the Linden shuttle, then you are saying that more passengers would have to transfer, since Skokie now only supports 2 car trains on that branch, while Evanston supports 6 car trains. You would also have to lengthen the platform at Dempster-Skokie to handle the 6 car trains, not to mention whether there would be enough room between Oakton and Searle (at the station supposedly under construction) to build that long of a platform, or the need to lengthen the switchback track at Dempster into the street.

Hence, unless you have some real justification, other than being confusing, this makes no sense.

There was talk previously in the thread about combining the Brown and Orange permanently(I believe Mr.cta85 mentioned this). To try to clarify what I was mentioning, I was saying that if you wanted to consolidate two lines into one, why not eliminate the Yellow Line and merge it with the Purple Line Express, which can either stay an Express, or be changed to a new color line, so as not to confuse the Purple Line passengers. Now what can be done here is the Purple Line Local makes all stops to Linden, the Purple Line Express/New Line color makes only the stops that a Purple Express would, but instead of going to Linden, this train goes from Howard to Skokie, returns back to Howard, and continues south, making all Express stops.

There wouldn't be a need to expand the roster, all you're doing here is changing the Purple Line Express into a line that runs to Skokie rather than Linden. The only addition would be the 10 cars that the Yellow Line currently has.

On the subject of train length, can't the current Yellow Line layout handle 4-car trains at all stops?

Does this clarify what I'm saying a bit more?