5000-series - Updates

[Busjack]

That's what I thought about the site but now I feel like I'm getting picked on (not by you) and it might be certain reasons why. I rarely let my emotions explode but I'm really pissed off right now.

I'm just making a statement about what is authoritative, especially here, as a statement of CTA official policy.

[BusHunter]

Yeah we straightened things out. Now you are updated. Chicago-l.org hasn't been updating assignments or other things lately. You have to take into account people are living their lives too. I need an updated #2400's list, but I'm now using other sources. That's how it works in the investigative field. There's good reporting here, this should be your top source.

[garmon757]

Garmon, I think you done well. You gave me the source. I'm through.

PS: Reading what l.org said, that was a quote from a newspaper from Nov. 2011. No credibility anymore...too much time has passed. I doubt if Garfield remembers it.

I'm just making a statement about what is authoritative, especially here, as a statement of CTA official policy.

Yeah we straightened things out. Now you are updated. Chicago-l.org hasn't been updating assignments or other things lately. You have to take into account people are living their lives too. I need an updated #2400's list, but I'm now using other sources. That's how it works in the investigative field. There's good reporting here, this should be your top source.

I understand. I'm just trying to learn day by day. I've been influenced by all this (routes, buses, trains, route changes, bus changes, etc.) for almost 18 years. It all started because of me finding a 1997 map in the snow near Lake and Menard (in between Central and Austin). Sounds crazy right?

[artthouwill]

Youre missing my point! You obviously don't live on the NW side so you don't understand the argument Im trying to make here! First, my issue is not the south and west sides getting the new equipment. My concern is why does it seem that the NW side riders are having to ride the oldest equipment either trains or buses in the CTA fleet when a large number of new buses and rail cars are currently being delivered and we don't see any of them where we live!!! Every part of the city should have the right to new and good equipment! We are all taxpayers and we all have a right to good transit equipment! I just think it should be a fair and balanced distribution which is not been the case lately with CTA! . The Blue runs through the west side and those riders do have to ride those cars as well. But they also have access to the Green line which has the new cars! The NW side only has one option, the Blue Line! Plus this line serves one of the two Chicago major airports. As I stated, I don't have an issue with the Red and Green lines running new equipment. I would just like to see a fair distribution. The 4300 series buses, there were only 100 delivered!!! CTAs bus fleet is much larger than that! And BTW, those buses mainly serve the riders along the north shore areas of the city, the lakefront and downtown.They do not serve areas northwest of the city! So that is not a valid argument! There has to be a question of why is one part of the city having to ride "hand me down" equipment while the rest of the city enjoys new or refurbished trains and buses??? I said before I would be satisfied seeing rehabbed 3200 series cars on the Blue but that too dosent look like a possibility that will happen! It just seems to be that the NW side is always shunned by the CTA! You misread my post!!! Whats the problem with the nw side being able to enjoy new equipment as well??? The Blue may not see new equipment for another five to seven years!!! That is totally unfair considering its youngest cars, the 3100 series were delivered almost thirty years ago!!! A fact that I will raise to my alderman when I finally get a chance to speak about this! So, what is slippery slope are you talking about??? That I am stating facts??? I am just a concerned rider who feels CTA is giving the NW side areas the "short end" of the stick while the rest of the city enjoys riding new or nearly new equipment!

I think I've been on record saying that the Blue Line should've been first in receiving the new 5000s. Perhaps the seat layout mixed with luggage/ luggage space makes this difficult, I don't know. I certainly doen't know why the Blue can't at least have all of the 3200s (from Orange and Brown). The 2600s are in too sad of shape to be run so heavily on the 2nd busiest rail line in the system.

Like I said earlier, I hope FG gets all of the 7900s (I don't particularly care for them), bur we know that won't happen. I am not saying that FG shouldn't get any new equipment ever, and yes it should enjoy getting some new equipment. What I am saying is that the south side and the west side don't always get the new equipment first, and when it does, more often than not it's taken from them.

103rd: Mostly hand me down equipment. Received the 5300s Flx brand new. Their first order shipped off to 77th and 103rd received middle range 5300 Flxs. REceived the new 7500 series NABIs. Kept original 7500 - 7549 until buses pulled off street. REceived some 4060 - 4079 range buses and inherited the rest up to early 4100s when 103rd inherited 77th's artics and the 6 Jackson Park Express route. When 1000s were coming, orders were split between them and North Park, yet 103rd eventually wound up with some older 1000s originally delivered to Archer. 103rd did receive the first set of 4300s though they did lose the top end of their assignments to K and C. Forgot to mention 103rd received 6070 through 6099 for a short season before all 6000s were split between 74th and FG.

77th. REceived the last order of 9600s (9759 - 9799) brand new, then swapped with NP for mid 965x through 969x, then lost them altogether. Received the last order of MAN buses up to 4361, then lost them upon the opening of 103rd garage, receiving their 9800 series Flyers. Got first order of 4400s but saw them shipped away. Eventually 77th wound up twith the highest number 4400s (479x - 4874) until retirement. REceived first order of 6000 series Flx buses then saw lower number buses shipped to K and higher numbered ones go to FG and received 103rd's 5300s. REceived highest number 7500 NABIs (769x to 7725) until pulled out of service. REceived some 4000s until losing them and the 6 route to 103rd. REceived 6400 series Novas first and until recent swaps stayed at 77th . REceived 1226 - 1310 NFs. Started losing lower numbered NF when starting to receive odd number 1929 - 1977. Eventually even numbered buses came, but 77th continued to lose NFs and gain Novas (FG 6849 - 6883) until recently when this garage went all NF. (mostly old ones).

74th: At 69th, received 9000 series first and stayed there until retirement. REceived 4114 - 415x MAN buses. REceived 4500 series range of TMC RTS. Received highest numbered 6000 sries Flx. Eventually received more Flx until garage was 100% Flx. When those buses failed at a high rate, then and only then did 74th start to receive some 1000 series NF. Upon closing of ARcher garage, most of the ARcher Novas went to 74th.

FG: IIRC received the highest numbered 9000 series buses new (up to 9599). Received upper numbered 5300 series Flxs then swapped for 6000 series Flxs inherited from K. REceived highest numbered 9800 series Flyers and the only garage to get the 1600 series Flyers NEW. REceived the highest numbered 6400 series Novas NEW. It did lose the highest numbered set (6849 - 6883) to 77th but got them back. REceived some hand me down 1000 series NF buses but gave them up (maybe in anticipation of receiving 7900 series Novas).

As you can tell, FG does get new equipment, maybe not necessarily the first to get it, but they do get them. If any garage could make a case for not getting new equipment first, it would be Chicago Ave.

[jajuan]

I'm just shocked that fg has all 12 year old buses. I don't think that has ever happened to a bus fleet at CTA, ever. Ridership does seem to be dropping a hair on the nw side, I was noticing this weekend the #90 was dead for ridership and that goes to a mall. I hate to crack jokes about this, but I was thinking the last new bus FG has had is currently in the scrap yard at south shops. Now who can say that!! Eventually though the tide will shift. Personally I'd rather see NF's than Nova's. And the #3200's to the blue line idea is not dead yet. You know putting all the oldest cars in one spot makes that entire line sound like it's junk. Ask yourself what line has been in the news with all the defective cars and derailments and retirements. I bet there will be more stories coming too. Anyone can tell you that if you run your junk equipment hard it will fail. All that happens is the line gets shorter and shorter on equipment. Eventually I believe they'll be at a point where they'll have to do something, but maybe just maybe the #3200's are coming, but they need rehabbing too, they are almost 25 years old.

I guess you forgot that timeframe that 74th went all 6000s and at the time that happened the 6000s were at least 12 years old or more. And does it need to be pointed out again that FG along with 77th, Archer and Chicago got the 6400s, leaving three out of the four Americana garages (Kedzie, North Park and 103rd) to contend with aging 4400s and 5300s that were themselves at retirement age when the last of the Americanas were retired in 2004 (man it's been 10 years already since those old girls were retired). And they really didn't replace those 4400s and 5300s completely until 2009.

To expand this back out to include railcars though, the problem isn't really so much CTA leaving one or more sections of town to contend with old equipment in and of itself. It's more the fact that CTA procures new equipment in longer intervals compared to some other TAs that lead to points where by the time one older model of anything is replaced, it's time or close to time for another model to get replaced. So we end up seeing the debates and battles about one or more sections of the city are getting ignored in relation to other sections in getting new equipment each time a new fleet model is introduced into the system.

[chicagopcclcar]

I guess

To expand this back out to include railcars though, ....... . So we end up seeing the debates and battles about one or more sections of the city are getting ignored in relation to other sections in getting new equipment each time a new fleet model is introduced into the system.

Only on railfans groups like the one here!!

Most transit agency are in the business of giving their patrons travel, and not in the business of hearing railfans. Except the seating, most CTA riders don't care if they ride a 2600, 3200, or a 5000. They want only a safe, clean, an a fast trip.

Fleet requirements in the Chicago "L" scene first happened then the CRT put all the 455 steel cars in a fleet and assigned them to service the Englewood/ Ravenswood and the Jackson Park-Howard-Evanston in the city's initial subway in 1943.

The next fleet change came in 1955 when the subway, the North-South received all 6000 cars and the older steels were assigned to other routes. The 4000s ran on the Milwaukee, Douglas Park, Garfield Park, Ravenswood, Evanston. The CTA said this would put the best performance equipment on its major route. True, the 6201-6510 would spend their entire life there. I wonder if there was others who faulted this move.

In the 1990s, the CTA equipped three routes, the Yellow, the Orange, and the Brown. In 2010's, the CTA equipped the Pink, Green, Yellow, Red, and Purple. Sound's like good management to me.

[jajuan]

Only on railfans groups like the one here!!

Most transit agency are in the business of giving their patrons travel, and not in the business of hearing railfans. Except the seating, most CTA riders don't care if they ride a 2600, 3200, or a 5000. They want only a safe, clean, an a fast trip.

Fleet requirements in the Chicago "L" scene first happened then the CRT put all the 455 steel cars in a fleet and assigned them to service the Englewood/ Ravenswood and the Jackson Park-Howard-Evanston in the city's initial subway in 1943.

The next fleet change came in 1955 when the subway, the North-South received all 6000 cars and the older steels were assigned to other routes. The 4000s ran on the Milwaukee, Douglas Park, Garfield Park, Ravenswood, Evanston. The CTA said this would put the best performance equipment on its major route. True, the 6201-6510 would spend their entire life there. I wonder if there was others who faulted this move.

In the 1990s, the CTA equipped three routes, the Yellow, the Orange, and the Brown. In 2010's, the CTA equipped the Pink, Green, Yellow, Red, and Purple. Sound's like good management to me.

True you see a lot of the gripes on railfan/transit fan forums. However, CTA's Facebook page shows that those complaints have gone beyond the transit fan web pages locally.

[briman94]

Man, the loop sure was messed up this morning. CTA never released an alert about it, but I saw purple traintracker times on the Brown/Green side and then saw what looked like a 2600 train running the Brown line. Then I saw an Orange line leaving the loop from the CCW tracks (meaning it went Library -> Roosevelt). What on earth was going on?

[joechicago]

Man, the loop sure was messed up this morning. CTA never released an alert about it, but I saw purple traintracker times on the Brown/Green side and then saw what looked like a 2600 train running the Brown line. Then I saw an Orange line leaving the loop from the CCW tracks (meaning it went Library -> Roosevelt). What on earth was going on?

Just sounds like Brownage trains, nothing unusual.

[Busjack]

Man, the loop sure was messed up this morning. CTA never released an alert about it, but I saw purple traintracker times on the Brown/Green side and then saw what looked like a 2600 train running the Brown line. Then I saw an Orange line leaving the loop from the CCW tracks (meaning it went Library -> Roosevelt). What on earth was going on?

Depending on the time, some of it is undoubtedly Brownage trains (Orange interlined with Brown*), but the Purple on the wrong Train Tracker screen is hard to explain (although unlike the others, you didn't say that you saw an actual Purple Line train on the wrong track).

The other missing link is the various reports that 2400s are being replaced by 2600s at Midway Yard, I bet especially for Brownage.

_________

*See "M" legend in Brown Line schedule brochure.

[briman94]

Depending on the time, some of it is undoubtedly Brownage trains (Orange interlined with Brown*), but the Purple on the wrong Train Tracker screen is hard to explain (although unlike the others, you didn't say that you saw an actual Purple Line train on the wrong track).

The other missing link is the various reports that 2400s are being replaced by 2600s at Midway Yard, I bet especially for Brownage.

_________

*See "M" legend in Brown Line schedule brochure.

It must have been a 2600 on brown from a brownage train followed immediately by an actual brownage transitioning to orange. Didn't know they'd run them that close together.

[andrethebusman]

Additions 4/14 to 6/14

5433-5446 to Red

5447-5460 to Purple

5461-5470 to Red

Were 5447-60 originally on Red?

[Sam92]

Additions 4/14 to 6/14

5433-5446 to Red

5447-5460 to Purple

5461-5470 to Red

Were 5447-60 originally on Red?

Persinally im counting anything that touches the Red Line as Purple and Yellow as well. maybe we should arrange the 5000's roster as:

Green: xxxx-xxxx

Pink: xxxx-xxxx

Red/Purple/Yellow: xxxx-xxxx

Orange: xxxx

[Guest]

Only on railfans groups like the one here!!

Most transit agency are in the business of giving their patrons travel, and not in the business of hearing railfans. Except the seating, most CTA riders don't care if they ride a 2600, 3200, or a 5000. They want only a safe, clean, an a fast trip.

Fleet requirements in the Chicago "L" scene first happened then the CRT put all the 455 steel cars in a fleet and assigned them to service the Englewood/ Ravenswood and the Jackson Park-Howard-Evanston in the city's initial subway in 1943.

The next fleet change came in 1955 when the subway, the North-South received all 6000 cars and the older steels were assigned to other routes. The 4000s ran on the Milwaukee, Douglas Park, Garfield Park, Ravenswood, Evanston. The CTA said this would put the best performance equipment on its major route. True, the 6201-6510 would spend their entire life there. I wonder if there was others who faulted this move.

In the 1990s, the CTA equipped three routes, the Yellow, the Orange, and the Brown. In 2010's, the CTA equipped the Pink, Green, Yellow, Red, and Purple. Sound's like good management to me.

Its good management when all areas of the system are given consideration not just some!

[Busjack]

Only on railfans groups like the one here!!

Its good management when all areas of the system are given consideration not just some!

I figure the average passenger can figure out which cars have the bad seats, and which cars have defects that make them crash prone. In that sense, no part of the city gets any bargain.

[BusHunter]

Additions 4/14 to 6/14

5433-5446 to Red

5447-5460 to Purple

5461-5470 to Red

Were 5447-60 originally on Red?

So some of those are officially on the purple line, I thought they were just loans. Some days some of those cars will run the red line, I saw #5451-52 the other day. I just noticed your roster count has #5453-60 going to purple. If so that would mean they now have 24 #5000 cars?

FYI, all #5000 cars above #5147 have run on the red line before even if it was for one day, #5405-16 ran for the first day on the red line.

[garmon757]

Shots of #5457-58, #5459-60 and surprising #5477-78 @ Merchandize Mart.

[BusHunter]

Wow already.

[Guest]

I figure the average passenger can figure out which cars have the bad seats, and which cars have defects that make them crash prone. In that sense, no part of the city gets any bargain.

True, but the bottom line, All the lines except for the Blue get to enjoy new or nearly new train cars while the Blue continues to run its 30 yr old fleet and CTA fills the gap with more 30 yr old equipment on the Blue!!! TOTAL B.S.!!! CTA dosent give a rats behind of the NW side residents! Ive reported this to our alderman. Ive asked her to look into this matter. This is total unfairness!

[chicagopcclcar]

True, but the bottom line, All the lines except for the Blue get to enjoy new or nearly new train cars while the Blue continues to run its 30 yr old fleet and CTA fills the gap with more 30 yr old equipment on the Blue!!! TOTAL B.S.!!! CTA dosent give a rats behind of the NW side residents! Ive reported this to our alderman. Ive asked her to look into this matter. This is total unfairness!

Would you be satisfied if the CTA would decide to transfer the 5000s and let the Red line await the new generation 7000s?

[briman94]

Would you be satisfied if the CTA would decide to transfer the 5000s and let the Red line await the new generation 7000s?

If any two lines got fully outfitted with 5000s, it should be those two because they're the most ridden lines (and operate 24/7 unlike other lines). I think Purple should stick with 2600s and the new 5000s should start filling Blue instead. I know they're doing purple next because of the common yard between R/P/Y but it seems like the blue line needs the 5000s the most.

[chicagopcclcar]

If any two lines got fully outfitted with 5000s, it should be those two because they're the most ridden lines (and operate 24/7 unlike other lines). I think Purple should stick with 2600s and the new 5000s should start filling Blue instead. I know they're doing purple next because of the common yard between R/P/Y but it seems like the blue line needs the 5000s the most.

I don't think enough cars were able to be ordered given the funds.

[Guest]

Would you be satisfied if the CTA would decide to transfer the 5000s and let the Red line await the new generation 7000s?

Now when did I say that??? As we were both once CTA employees, I would expect both of us to understand what Im trying to explain here.....Im saying with such a large railcar order that theres no reason why the Blue cant receive some of the 5000 series equipment. I believe that ALL CTA lines should be operating with some or all new cars of this order. No one line should be left out. I think many of us here can agree, both the Red and Blue Lines are the two most heavily used and longest rapid transit lines in the CTA system, I know you know that! Now Im not going to be selfish and say that the entire Blue line fleet be re equipped with new cars but it would be nice for those of us who live on the NW side be given the enjoyment and comfort of new railcars instead of continuing riding 30 year old equipment. The Blue line hasant seen new equipment since 1985! So I think the Blue is way overdue!!! If CTA wants to continue operating 2600s on the Blue Line, Fine!... But with over 700 cars being being built, it would be nice that the residents that live on the NW side be entitled to finally ride some new equipment. Wouldn't that be fair??? Upon retirement of the 2200s, which I miss very much! CTA chooses to replace them with more aged 2600 series equipment while the rest of the system continues to receive the new cars, just seems like CTA is thumbing its noses at the residents of the NW side. Im sorry if I don't include the west side portion of the Blue only because those residents have the option of the Green and Pink lines.

[garmon757]

Wow already.

Yessir! :D

[peterpyterek]

Now when did I say that??? Understand what Im trying to explain here.....Im saying with such a large railcar order that theres no reason why the Blue cant receive some of the 5000 series equipment. I believe that ALL CTA lines should be operating with some or all new cars. No one line should be left out. Both the Red and Blue Lines are the two most heavily used and longest rapid transit lines in the CTA system, I know you know that! Now Im not saying the entire Blue line fleet be re equipped with new cars but it would be nice for those of us who live on the NW side be given the enjoyment and comfort of new railcars instead of continuing riding 30 year old equipment. The Blue line hasant seen new equipment since 1985!. CTA wants to continue operating 2600s on the Blue Line, Fine!... But with over 700 cars being being built, it would be nice that the residents that live on the NW side be entitled to finally ride some new equipment. Wouldn't that be fair??? But for CTA to retire the 2200s and replace them with more aged 2600 series equipment while the rest of the system gets new cars, that's just seems like CTA is thumbing their noses at the residents who live on the NW side.

Yeah I know. I feel bad for the Northwest Side. Why do they save it for last to get new trains and buses?