5000-series - Updates

[Busjack]

If 5713-14 are to be held for Skokie Swift reopening, it might be a LONG time before they are seen. I have hard that MOST of the embankment west of McCormick might have to be removed and replaced as unstable. October? I doubt it. Personally I suspect 5713-14 might be short a few pieces before they can be put into service, same as the last three SEPTA Silverliner V's. They were delivered, but not accepted for several months until the missing pieces were put on.

 

The agency has CONFIRMED an October start date, there's no need to dispute that. How much more proof is needed, pres. Carter announced it on his exclusive Newsview interview, there are service flyers out stating that service is anticipated to return in October.

...

Besides that, I noted above a cbschicago story that said all 714 cars were accepted.

Now, whether MWRD and Walsh Construction actually get it done in October is another question, but, again, Sunday Carter said it was on schedule (as he said everything else was).

[chicagopcclcar]

If 5713-14 are to be held for Skokie Swift reopening, it might be a LONG time before they are seen. I have hard that MOST of the embankment west of McCormick might have to be removed and replaced as unstable. October? I doubt it. Personally I suspect 5713-14 might be short a few pieces before they can be put into service, same as the last three SEPTA Silverliner V's. They were delivered, but not accepted for several months until the missing pieces were put on.

Sorry, but I must dispute your feelings....the #5713-5714 have been seen at Skokie, that are ready for final approval cab signal function. They are missing no parts.  They are completely built. Your feeling that because another transit agency not connected to Illinois or the CTA  suffered a delay in delivery of suburban transit railcars built by a completely different Hyundai Rotem in South Korea with final assembling done in the good ole U-S-of-A has about the same relationship as expecting today's lottery numbers be duplicated tomorrow. Bombardier is not connected to Hyundai Rotem.  Good luck with those lottery tickets....I'll take my cut, LOL. 

If you were trackside recently you would have seen another part scheduled for the ceremony. 

Edited September 22, 2015 by chicagopcclcar

[andrethebusman]

Well, we will see when the first Skokie Swift rolls again. I hope soon.

As far whether the 5713-14 are roadworthy, just because they are physically here (which is not in dispute) is not the same as whether they are ready to go. They can even be able to move, but still not be 100% ready. Not saying they aren't, just leaving that possibility open.

However, let's not think that Bombardier is perfect, by any means. Toronto's new streetcars are having terrible gestating problems. I guess they have finally got four delivered, when they should have had almost a hundred by now. Every car order has its problems. Buses, too. Pace's new Champion Access 6400's have 20-plus at Acceptance Center now for over a month waiting for a replacement part for a defective one on every bus in the batch.

[chicagopcclcar]

What makes #5711-5712 different to #5713-5714? I don't see why you feel something is missing with the final two railcars. The only procedure missing is....Still to done is "carborune testing." I listed the shops that can do this.  63rd lower yard is not a shop for revenue cars. The major testing is described...." a testing of the cab signal system. This is done to certify the car is road worthy for operations." Text I posted before.  98th or Howard has done this for the 36 railcars, two more to be done....#5711-5712.  Skokie usually did this before the track problem. So Skokie does it for #5713-5714. What is your reservation with this. 

EDIT....EDIT...Andre...you are so thoughtful, your posting are so well documented, I don't understand  why you feel as you do.  We are talking about two railcars sitting on West Oakton. They are here.  They are not in Pennsylvania, Toronto, on Pace bus lines. I don't speak to Busjack because he has proudly boasted that he won't read my posts.  I still maintain that that is a fault of this forum and it make posting difficult. 

Edited September 22, 2015 by chicagopcclcar

[Busjack]

...

However, let's not think that Bombardier is perfect, by any means. Toronto's new streetcars are having terrible gestating problems. ...

There were the documented problems with the first 100 or so CTA cars (journal and front welds) that were worked out. It is hard to believe that with over 500 deliveries since then, something is all the sudden wrong with the last 2.

[Juniorz]

andrethebusman, please give these theories a rest. Your claims are baseless, the facts are outthere, your superstitions are about as real as Stevie Wonder's 1970s hit record of the aforementioned word. 

The anticipated opening of the Yellow Line: October

The Final 5000s: signed, sealed and delivered (and rumored to be ushered in when the Yellow Line Returns)

[BusHunter]

I sure am glad i'm on vacation. But first we were told the cars are here, then the trib says they are not, then pcclcars says no they are not, then cbs says they are and everyone believes them when they were here most likely the whole time. I agree they seem to be held for some kind of ceremony or event and with CTA making a thing out of the 500th car, they probably are. Whether that's on the yellow line, I don't know. But there's no need to attack people here. Calm down take a breath guys and exhale.

[chgofan78]

On a unrelated note, there is a new set of ad-wrapped cars on the Red Line for Boost Mobile (5325-5326).  When I first caught a glimpse of the cars, I thought for a quick second that there was a new set of cars or a mismate.  It seems they ran out of the number 5, so one of numbers on 5326 looks like 6326.  They basically cut off a piece of the 6 to make a 5. 

[chicagopcclcar]

Glad you're on a vacation....have fun.

There's no attack on people here.  Why is attack or whatever negative always brought up?  Debates can be cordial and thoughtful.  The forum rules state:...."Backup facts and explain your positions. If making a statement of fact, always provide supporting evidence. For opinions or suggestions, always provide justification for your position. For example, do not suggest changes to CTA routes or operations without providing reasonable justification."

Seems fine with me. 
 

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

Yep.  Green I presume is 100% Green, Pink I presume is a mix of red and blue with more red than blue, Purple is also a mix of red and blue with more blue than red, Yellow I think is a mix of 100% Red and 100% Green, Orange is 100% Red with a some green, Brown is a dim red with some green, and I think the CTA shade of Blue might be 100% Blue with a slight amount of green.

The signs have a white LED set as well. Remember that the "Cottage Grove" sign commonly in use has green text with a white background. Pink would probably be a combination of red and white, since those make pink (think about the marker lights on the front of Pink Line trains).

[briman94]

The signs have a white LED set as well. Remember that the "Cottage Grove" sign commonly in use has green text with a white background. Pink would probably be a combination of red and white, since those make pink (think about the marker lights on the front of Pink Line trains).

I believe this is incorrect. When the red channel is out on a sign, the text is turquoise (RGB - R = GB, or turquoise). Also, from a distance, the Cottage Grove sign appears slightly pink because the red light travels faster than green and blue (yay physics stuff...). This is exaggerated by the colors being slightly separated because they're different LEDs. White is just an illusion by the red, green, and blue lights blurring together (remember, white light is just a combination of all other colors)

Edited September 23, 2015 by briman94

[Pink Jazz]

Plus, red + white doesn't really make a true pink.  What would typically be described as pink is a mix of red and either blue or violet light (a light shade of magenta).  In RGB LED signs, pink likely contains more red than blue, while purple probably contains more blue than red.

Trust me, since pink is my signature color, I know what pink really is.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Pink Jazz

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

...When the red channel is out on a sign, the text is turquoise (RGB - R = GB, or turquoise). Also, from a distance, the Cottage Grove sign appears slightly pink because the red light travels faster than green and blue (yay physics stuff...). This is exaggerated by the colors being slightly separated because they're different LEDs. White is just an illusion by the red, green, and blue lights blurring together (remember, white light is just a combination of all other colors)

I would agree, but our very own BusHunter posted this video a while back. If white is made up out of all of the other LEDs, why would a sign cycling through each type of LED (as this train appears to be doing) show white? Wouldn't it just show red green and blue? Or am I missing something?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2U3aDsEw-s

[briman94]

Plus, red + white doesn't really make a true pink.  What would typically be described as pink is a mix of red and either blue or violet light (a light shade of magenta).  In RGB LED signs, pink likely contains more red than blue, while purple probably contains more blue than red.

Trust me, since pink is my signature color, I know what pink really is.

White + red would technically not be correct, as you can't add anything to white given that it is by definition 100% Red, Green, and Blue. It would more accurately be white minus a little bit of green and blue.

I would agree, but our very own BusHunter posted this video a while back. If white is made up out of all of the other LEDs, why would a sign cycling through each type of LED show white? Wouldn't it just show red green and blue? Or am I missing something?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2U3aDsEw-s

It shows white in order to test each pixel's R, G, and B components together. It's easier to spot an issue if the whole thing is white and one pixel is, for instance, teal, magenta, or yellow. (R, G, or B missing, respectively). It also tests the white balance (each pixel's white balance should be the same, so it doesn't look gray in some places).

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

...It shows white in order to test each pixel's R, G, and B components together. It's easier to spot an issue if the whole thing is white and one pixel is, for instance, teal, magenta, or yellow. (R, G, or B missing, respectively). It also tests the white balance (each pixel's white balance should be the same, so it doesn't look gray in some places).

I don't have the specs of the signs to say if this is right or wrong, even though your point is very logical. I know that what you describe is very important for LCD computer screens. However it could be just testing out if the LEDs are lit at all. I would think that tests that sophisticated would be more for an LCD screen, though the video doesn't tell us the purpose of the signs acting that way.

One of my substitute automotive teachers told us "Keep it simple, stupid."  We all laughed, but he does have a point.

[briman94]

I don't have the specs of the signs to say if this is right or wrong, even though your point is very logical. I know that what you describe is very important for LCD computer screens. However it could be just testing out if the LED are lit at all. I would think that tests that sophisticated would be more for an LCD screen, though the video doesn't tell us the purpose of the signs acting that way.

One of my substitute automotive teachers told us "Keep it simple, stupid." 

I'm curious now; I'm still in the loop so I'll take the Red line up to Belmont instead of the Brown line so I can be sure to get an LED sign. I'll get a close-up picture with my phone to see if the text is RGB or a white LED

EDIT: Phone was nearly dead when I got off at Belmont so the camera was extremely laggy. I'll try to get a close-up some other time.

Edited September 23, 2015 by briman94

[sw4400]

I'm curious now; I'm still in the loop so I'll take the Red line up to Belmont instead of the Brown line so I can be sure to get an LED sign. I'll get a close-up picture with my phone to see if the text is RGB or a white LED

EDIT: Phone was nearly dead when I got off at Belmont so the camera was extremely laggy. I'll try to get a close-up some other time.

That's not an excuse.... sorry, but briman94.....

 

[Busjack]

The picture of the 95th in blue with a black background would tend to negate any white LED.

[briman94]

The picture of the 95th in blue with a black background would tend to negate any white LED.

That's my main reasoning. If there were white LEDs, the text color wouldn't change when the red channel goes out. It's just a giant computer monitor, really...white is always a combination of R, G, and B. It saves money by having less LEDs.

[Pink Jazz]

White + red would technically not be correct, as you can't add anything to white given that it is by definition 100% Red, Green, and Blue. It would more accurately be white minus a little bit of green and blue.

But not equal amounts of blue and green.  Pink generally contains mostly red with some blue, and far less green.

The top image is red with equal amounts of blue and green added, while the bottom image is a color that I would describe as truly pink, with more blue than green in it.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Pink Jazz

[chicagopcclcar]

Trains equipped with 5000s, a northbound meets a southbound on the median Red line between 63rd St. and 69th St near where the Chicago Skyway intersects the Dan Ryan expressway. North of this point the expressway carried both Interstate designations...ninety and ninety-four but eastward, the Chicago Skyway only carries signage saying "To I-90."  This is a decade old dispute between Chicago and the other governments.  And at this time, the Red line is rumored to be 100 percent equipped with 5000s series. In the background is the new Metra Rock Island District approach bridge over the expressway that leads to the CREATE railroad crossing of the Norfolk Southern.

Edited September 24, 2015 by chicagopcclcar

[BusHunter]

So no #2600's are in 98th yard? No #2600 gap trains? If so then the rumor is true. They should be all #5000's or soon will be cause nothing new minus a deuce is destined for the Red line for at least 4-5 years. Wasn't there a report of rehabbed #3200's coming into 63rd lower yard. What ever happened to those? I haven't been on the system in 2 weeks.

[chicagopcclcar]

So no #2600's are in 98th yard? No #2600 gap trains? If so then the rumor is true. They should be all #5000's or soon will be cause nothing new minus a deuce is destined for the Red line for at least 4-5 years. Wasn't there a report of rehabbed #3200's coming into 63rd lower yard. What ever happened to those? I haven't been on the system in 2 weeks.

"100 percent" does not mean no 2600s are not in the yards.  You guys have to phraphrase more carefully. Just drove past 98th on I-57 to I-94. The eight-car 2600s is still in there.  Plus the two deuces on derails.  A quad of 5000s, returned from Skokie to 63rd is at lower yard. A six-car Green line consist of  5000s is in 61st upper.

98th St. yard from the south.

Edited September 25, 2015 by chicagopcclcar

[See Tea Eh]

the Cottage Grove sign appears slightly pink because the red light travels faster than green and blue (yay physics stuff...)

Last I checked, all light traveled at the same speed.  Red light has a longer wavelength, but it ain't any faster.

[briman94]

Last I checked, all light traveled at the same speed.  Red light has a longer wavelength, but it ain't any faster.

Take a look at this article from the University of Wisconsin. The bottom paragraph explains that prisms work as they do because the light travels at different speeds (and is thus affected differently by the prism, sort of like how a bullet would travel further horizontally in water than something thrown by a person).

The doppler effect presumably also affects the color of the light, but not as much as it would affect sound.

Edited September 25, 2015 by briman94