600-series Proterra BE40/ZX5 - Updates

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

Most of them are out of action.  74th is running theirs good but only once a day in the morning.  There’s a lot of down proterras like 619 out at south shops too.               

[busfan2847]

6 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Haven't really been catching up on the 600s are they getting more active again? I know they've been barely running with all the issues.

Only 603, 608-612. 615, 617, 620 and 622 have been in service in January on maths22 bustracker, and 609 was last out on 1/2/24.

None of Chicago's were out from 1/3 to 1/19 - so they missed the snow fall and polar vortex between 1/12-1/17. The one daily am bus was out, from 74th on the 63 weekdays, throughout the period from 4am to 9:30-10:00am

For the rest 616 was last in service in 6/23, 602/7/19 in 8/23, 601/13 in 9/23, 600/6/21 in 10/23, 614 in 11/23, 604/5 in 12/23.

[jajuan]

On 2/1/2024 at 3:38 PM, busfan2847 said:

Only 603, 608-612. 615, 617, 620 and 622 have been in service in January on maths22 bustracker, and 609 was last out on 1/2/24.

None of Chicago's were out from 1/3 to 1/19 - so they missed the snow fall and polar vortex between 1/12-1/17. The one daily am bus was out, from 74th on the 63 weekdays, throughout the period from 4am to 9:30-10:00am

For the rest 616 was last in service in 6/23, 602/7/19 in 8/23, 601/13 in 9/23, 600/6/21 in 10/23, 614 in 11/23, 604/5 in 12/23.

Are they still working out getting the buses to hold a longer charge as far as reasons some have been out of service between two and eight months?

[Busjack]

At least 614 is now on the street, after g-d knows how long:

[busfan2847]

20 hours ago, Busjack said:

At least 614 is now on the street, after g-d knows how long:

15th November 2023

[rl12383]

5 hours ago, busfan2847 said:

15th November 2023

There were 4- 600's (603, 608, 617 and 619)on the 66 route this morning. Maybe they are getting the parts they need, finally. 

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

610 is at Chicago and 607 is 74th

From @maths22's tracker, looks like 607 got back into service Friday, ran yesterday, then got swapped. Anyone have any idea why?

[YoungBusLover]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

From @maths22's tracker, looks like 607 got back into service Friday, ran yesterday, then got swapped. Anyone have any idea why?

I have no idea, my initial thoughts were maybe it is a farebox swap but after seeing it today that wasn't the case. 

[busfan2847]

607 has gone back to Chicago, and 610 to 74th the weekend before last (9th/10th)

[busfan2847]

Just spent a couple of days in Bloomington-Normal. They have 12 Proterra ZX5 buses or which only 2 are in service. The rest are off the road waiting spare parts which have become impossible to source since the bankruptcy.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, busfan2847 said:

The rest are off the road waiting spare parts which have become impossible to source since the bankruptcy.

The only thing with which I may have a quarrel is the implied timeline or causation, as the bankruptcy file indicates problems before then.

[busfan2847]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

The only thing with which I may have a quarrel is the implied timeline or causation, as the bankruptcy file indicates problems before then.

OK before bankruptcy it was difficult to get parts, since November it has become impossible.

https://www.25newsnow.com/2024/03/27/public-transit-buses-remain-parked-after-supplier-goes-bankrupt/

[NewFlyerMCI]

5 hours ago, busfan2847 said:

OK before bankruptcy it was difficult to get parts, since November it has become impossible.

https://www.25newsnow.com/2024/03/27/public-transit-buses-remain-parked-after-supplier-goes-bankrupt/

https://gvwire.com/2024/05/01/why-wheels-on-10m-worth-of-fresno-buses-dont-go-round-and-round/

Fresno is experiencing the same issue

[Busjack]

Based on the BC Transit repoirt, I checked the court order,  which states that various CTA contracts were rejected. Thus, it looks like CTA is not getting 623-644 (at least not from Proterra) nor the associated chargers. Some "notices of conditional acceptance" were also rejected, so I don't know the status of the delivered buses.

 I don't recall anything having been said about this. But apparently RIP in the NABI graveyard.

[Mr.NewFlyer1279]

3 hours ago, Busjack said:

Based on the BC Transit repoirt, I checked the court order,  which states that various CTA contracts were rejected. Thus, it looks like CTA is not getting 623-644 (at least not from Proterra) nor the associated chargers. Some "notices of conditional acceptance" were also rejected, so I don't know the status of the delivered buses.

 I don't recall anything having been said about this. But apparently RIP in the NABI graveyard.

a lot are sidelined at C near the maintenance bays (a few still run) but not for a long time there are 3 chargers and only 2 work which is Chicago Garage and Navy Pier the one at Austin been broke since July 2023 as a operator pulled the bus away and forgot charging was still in process😂

[Busjack]

17 minutes ago, Mr.NewFlyer1279 said:

the one at Austin been broke since July 2023 as a operator pulled the bus away and forgot charging was still in process😂

That one's on CTA.

[Sam92]

20 hours ago, Mr.NewFlyer1279 said:

the one at Austin been broke since July 2023 as a operator pulled the bus away and forgot charging was still in process😂

 

20 hours ago, Busjack said:

That one's on CTA.

All those bells whistles and gimmicks and they couldn't add some kind of alert that the bus was plugged to a charger while being put in drive? 🥴

[Busjack]

56 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

 

All those bells whistles and gimmicks and they couldn't add some kind of alert that the bus was plugged to a charger while being put in drive? 🥴

Unfortunately SAE J3105 Standard document costs $168.00, so unless we have an electrical or automotive engineer willing to spill the beans for free, we won't know.🥲

[YoungBusLover]

I'm going to take #600 off the active roster. It's been sitting in our busbay for several months now collecting dust. Farebox was also removed as well. I think this is the beginning of the end for some of the #600s.

[Bus1883]

1 hour ago, YoungBusLover said:

I'm going to take #600 off the active roster. It's been sitting in our busbay for several months now collecting dust. Farebox was also removed as well. I think this is the beginning of the end for some of the #600s.

Smh so they aren’t bound for 12 years of FTA guidelines?

[NewFlyerMCI]

20 minutes ago, Bus1883 said:

Smh so they aren’t bound for 12 years of FTA guidelines?

Someone more knowledgeable that me can step in, but that only prevents them from scrapping them (and it's not like it can be sold or leased).

Most likely what will happen is the same with Foothill Transit's BE35s; they'll just sit, collecting dust b/c they can't be repaired, until the 12 years are up

EDIT: If you want to do some more reading: 5010.1E Circular. It's also interesting to note that this question is covered in the FAQs as such (although, this applies more to the Foothill example than CTA):

Quote

Quote

My agency was an early adopter of battery electric, before the technology matured, and is having difficulty maintaining the technology through its minimum useful life. What should my agency do?

Transit agencies should first seek all appropriate recourses from the vehicle manufacturer, including claims under any warranties.  If all recourses have been exhausted, transit agencies should discuss other options with their FTA Regional Office.

 

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

The proterras no longer work on weekdays. They seem to mostly be out during afternoon rush hour (the ones on the 66). The 63 ones 622 and 611 are still early morning runs, 610 is out of service. More than half of the proterra fleet has been out of service for over a month. 604 is the only active BE40 at this time. Seems like the proterras are starting to fail, but then again they repaired some of them. 616 was out the longest since June of 2023, almost a year. 616 didn’t even get to run for a full year before being pulled out of service 

Edited May 27, 2024 by Erin Mishkin Jr.
616 info

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Someone more knowledgeable that me can step in, but that only prevents them from scrapping them (and it's not like it can be sold or leased).

Most likely what will happen is the same with Foothill Transit's BE35s; they'll just sit, collecting dust b/c they can't be repaired, until the 12 years are up

EDIT: If you want to do some more reading: 5010.1E Circular. It's also interesting to note that this question is covered in the FAQs as such (although, this applies more to the Foothill example than CTA):

 

What you cited led in the correct direction, but what's in point is FTA C 5100.1 BUS AND BUS FACILITIES FORMULA PROGRAM: GUIDANCE AND APPLICATION INSTRUCTIONS.  To briefly summarize it, the useful life depends on various factors stated in the grant application (see page 51).  For instance, in the case of the two XE40s, CTA said it was a 2-year experiment. Of course, after rebuilding, 700 and 701 only hit the street a couple of times and have mostly sat.

The main import of the useful life requirement is whether the grantee has to reimburse the FTA (as in the cases of CTA NABIs and the DeKalb ENCs to Pace). Since Proterras are going OOS all over the country, I don't know what FTA's attitude is concerning that.

As far as the suggestion of following up on warranties, with the bankruptcy court having allowed rejection of the CTA contracts, there aren't any. Looks like the feds would have to eat the loss.

[renardo870]

65 Grand operating 617 EB Grand & Division

[Busjack]

On the June Finance subcommittee agenda:

Technically there isn't a contract to assign, but who's going to get it??? Who's saying New Flyer?