Random CTA

chrissz2613 · April 13, 2022

Does anyone know if the list of bus stops for the discontinued 90N route is archived or saved anywhere?

I noticed the lists for other routes that were cut in 2012 are available on the Wayback Machine.

Unfortunately, I'm not getting anything when I look for the 90N list.

Busjack · April 13, 2022

1 hour ago, chrissz2613 said:

Does anyone know if the list of bus stops for the discontinued 90N route is archived or saved anywhere?

Essentially the same as the current 423 stops. The stops had CTA signs with a map with one line to Touhy/Overhill marked 90N and the other line to Glenview for 423. Basically, the SB signs were replaced (south of the tracks) with CTA signs for 88/423, and northbound with Pace signs.

90N and 423 were considered alternate routes (you could board either), and when 90N was cut, Pace said there was no need to replace the service.

The Pace stop list is here.

NewFlyerMCI · April 13, 2022

I'd made this based on a twitter request, but I figured I'd share it here

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTMqL7isKP091zk74Xm5UvUTXO1xCLZegJMrTbhs9C1quSYtVR18x1jwQqV97gvtWj7E_79Jl69e0br/pubhtml

The above is a spreadsheet showing the noon-hour headways for all regular service bus routes in the CTA system. It's split into five categories, from under 10 mins to more than 26, and routes are placed based on how frequent it is during the noon-hour every day of the week. I took the headways from the section of route with the most service if the route had multiple subroutes (e.g. Western to Lakefront for the 79, or Belmont/Stockton to Union Station for the 151). Headways usually stay the same or get better, from AM Peak to early evening, so what a route has on this chart is pretty indicative of how service is during daylight hours. Feel free to do with and/or use as you please.

Some takeaways:

A lot of routes have better midday service on Saturday than they do on weekdays
About ~30% of CTA's regular service routes (94 total if I counted right) has 15 min or better headways everyday of the week
Only a few routes have headways worse than 26 mins. If sorting only by routes have have all-week service, this includes:
- 11, 39, 43, 68 (30-32 mins, sheesh), 88, 97, 106, 112, 63W & 81W (35 mins, might be the worst in the system)
  - None of these routes I imagine are surprising
  - 39 & 43 might have the worst drop off from weekday headways to weekend (I think the 39 literally doubles it's headways)
Conversely, routes that generally do 10 mins or better all-week include (i.e. metro-like service):
- 9, 22, 36, 63, 66, 79, 146, 151
  - Again, I don't imagine this is a surprise (although the 63 & 146 was for me lol)
  - Blue, Brown & Red lines also make this list, the only L lines to do so
  - There's some flexibility with this list ofc (iirc 4, 6, 20 and a couple of other lines toe the every 10 mins line, and they're important enough that I'd add them to metro-like service)

artthouwill · April 13, 2022

8 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I'd made this based on a twitter request, but I figured I'd share it here

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTMqL7isKP091zk74Xm5UvUTXO1xCLZegJMrTbhs9C1quSYtVR18x1jwQqV97gvtWj7E_79Jl69e0br/pubhtml

The above is a spreadsheet showing the noon-hour headways for all regular service bus routes in the CTA system. It's split into five categories, from under 10 mins to more than 26, and routes are placed based on how frequent it is during the noon-hour every day of the week. I took the headways from the section of route with the most service if the route had multiple subroutes (e.g. Western to Lakefront for the 79, or Belmont/Stockton to Union Station for the 151). Headways usually stay the same or get better, from AM Peak to early evening, so what a route has on this chart is pretty indicative of how service is during daylight hours. Feel free to do with and/or use as you please.

Some takeaways:

A lot of routes have better midday service on Saturday than they do on weekdays

About ~30% of CTA's regular service routes (94 total if I counted right) has 15 min or better headways everyday of the week

Only a few routes have headways worse than 26 mins. If sorting only by routes have have all-week service, this includes:
11, 39, 43, 68 (30-32 mins, sheesh), 88, 97, 106, 112, 63W & 81W (35 mins, might be the worst in the system)
None of these routes I imagine are surprising

39 & 43 might have the worst drop off from weekday headways to weekend (I think the 39 literally doubles it's headways)

Conversely, routes that generally do 10 mins or better all-week include (i.e. metro-like service):
9, 22, 36, 63, 66, 79, 146, 151
Again, I don't imagine this is a surprise (although the 63 & 146 was for me lol)

Blue, Brown & Red lines also make this list, the only L lines to do so

There's some flexibility with this list ofc (iirc 4, 6, 20 and a couple of other lines toe the every 10 mins line, and they're important enough that I'd add them to metro-like service)

Believe it or not. 63rd St historically has been a busy routes. I suppose being flanked by the slow 59 to the north and the 67 being 3/4 mile to the south between King Drive and Western and a mile between Western and Pulaski may contribute to this. At one time 63rd had Limited stop service. Seemingly any east west routes with a Dan Ryan Line station did well.

Busjack · April 13, 2022

6 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Believe it or not. 63rd St historically has been a busy routes. I suppose being flanked by the slow 59 to the north and the 67 being 3/4 mile to the south between King Drive and Western and a mile between Western and Pulaski may contribute to this. At one time 63rd had Limited stop service. Seemingly any east west routes with a Dan Ryan Line station did well.

63rd is one of several crosstown routes that goes through 3 or 4 different kinds of neighborhoods.

However, since about half of the buses turn back at Kedzie, the ridership must not be in Mike Madigan's neighborhood. 55 similarly has some buses turn at St. Louis, although not as many as 63. It would be interesting to see boarding data per stop. If the Midway charger is for 63, this would raise doubt whether it would be effective.

artthouwill · April 13, 2022

36 minutes ago, Busjack said:

63rd is one of several crosstown routes that goes through 3 or 4 different kinds of neighborhoods.

However, since about half of the buses turn back at Kedzie, the ridership must not be in Mike Madigan's neighborhood. 55 similarly has some buses turn at St. Louis, although not as many as 63. It would be interesting to see boarding data per stop. If the Midway charger is for 63, this would raise doubt whether it would be effective.

The Kedzie short turns are relatively recent, as in the last 10 years or so. Historically Cicero was the short turn prior to the Orange Line opening

To the Kedzie terminal at 63rd that is a CTA owned turnaround, a charge could be added there which would not only solve 63rd's issue, but if multiple chargers can fit, the 52 becomes a viable routes for electric buses.

Tcmetro · April 14, 2022

About a decade ago, Toronto moved all of their service to a 30-minute standard and planned to move to a 20-minute standard. Their bus system is quite a bit busier than ours (most of the main lines run at 5 min frequencies with limited stop overlays) and they have a much better night network, but I think it's a worthwhile one to aspire towards. They share a lot of similarities like being a grid system and heavy dependency on the rail system to get downtown. There's some differences as well though, it seems their roads are wider and move faster and the city is more dense.

artthouwill · April 14, 2022

4 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

About a decade ago, Toronto moved all of their service to a 30-minute standard and planned to move to a 20-minute standard. Their bus system is quite a bit busier than ours (most of the main lines run at 5 min frequencies with limited stop overlays) and they have a much better night network, but I think it's a worthwhile one to aspire towards. They share a lot of similarities like being a grid system and heavy dependency on the rail system to get downtown. There's some differences as well though, it seems their roads are wider and move faster and the city is more dense.

Also seems like less suburban sprawl, less crime, and more resources allocated to transit in Toronto. I would also guess they have less political corruption and influence than here.

NewFlyerMCI · April 15, 2022

On 4/13/2022 at 9:31 PM, Tcmetro said:

About a decade ago, Toronto moved all of their service to a 30-minute standard and planned to move to a 20-minute standard. Their bus system is quite a bit busier than ours (most of the main lines run at 5 min frequencies with limited stop overlays) and they have a much better night network, but I think it's a worthwhile one to aspire towards. They share a lot of similarities like being a grid system and heavy dependency on the rail system to get downtown. There's some differences as well though, it seems their roads are wider and move faster and the city is more dense.

That was my takeaway from this as well. While I initially believed CTA didn’t have any routes with headways longer than 25 mins, I see now that’s not the case, but I also think that it won’t be that much work to get all buses to or beneath that standard. Hell, even by 2040, I’d like to see all CTA routes operating every 20 mins or less during daylight hours, I think that’s achievable, especially if CTA gets more competitive with the hiring process

*for regular service bus routes

Edited April 15, 2022 by NewFlyerMCI

YoungBusLover · April 15, 2022

Does anybody know the bus number that has this particular shield? I know it's a Kedzie bus for sure.

Policeman · April 15, 2022

Just now, YoungBusLover said:

Does anybody know the bus number that has this particular shield? I know it's a Kedzie bus for sure.

I just reported this in another topic ?, but 4105 (3) also has it

BusHunter · April 15, 2022

4 minutes ago, Policeman said:

I just reported this in another topic ?, but 4105 (3) also has it

That's good. The operators need better protection. These are no doubt a prototype. I expect to see them on the rest of the artics soon. Is this universal for all NF's? The bus at kedzie is not mentioned as artic or 40 footer.

YoungBusLover · April 15, 2022

2 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

That's good. The operators need better protection. These are no doubt a prototype. I expect to see them on the rest of the artics soon. Is this universal for all NF's? The bus at kedzie is not mentioned as artic or 40 footer.

I remember years ago of someone saying they saw a standard 40 footer with this kind of shield.

BusHunter · April 15, 2022

1 minute ago, YoungBusLover said:

I remember years ago of someone saying they saw a standard 40 footer with this kind of shield.

As they are basically the same bus except for size you would think one shield could fit both buses. It's hard to say if they would make it to all 1000s because they will be retiring them soon. But anything going through high crime areas needs them. I'd start doing the artics and work my way down from highest 1000 to lowest. If something has higher crime they could skip a little here and there. They just don't want to put them on the 1000 and 1100s because those will either be gone or at the Glen soon.

Crime is really getting bad, I'm starting to wonder if the passengers need a shield lol!! It's getting like Detroit. You go to McDonald's and it looks like a currency exchange!!

YoungBusLover · April 15, 2022

7 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

As they are basically the same bus except for size you would think one shield could fit both buses. It's hard to say if they would make it to all 1000s because they will be retiring them soon. But anything going through high crime areas needs them. I'd start doing the artics and work my way down from highest 1000 to lowest. If something has higher crime they could skip a little here and there. They just don't want to put them on the 1000 and 1100s because those will either be gone or at the Glen soon.

Crime is really getting bad, I'm starting to wonder if the passengers need a shield lol!! It's getting like Detroit. You go to McDonald's and it looks like a currency exchange!!

My best assumption would be that the last 400 handpicked #1000s will get rehabbed with this shield with some #4000s & #4300s as well. You're right though crime has just gotten out of control based on what I hear on my scanner radio in relation to transit. The stuff that I hear sometimes make my jaw drop and heart sink a bit because one day that may be me in that situation. The CTA is lucky right now that it hasn't been warm really like in recent years, with so many runs missing from the street around the system I've encountered a boatload of angry passengers that are just fed up with how things have been.

BusHunter · April 15, 2022

Trouble is nova is so slow and the order makes them slower. You guys need protection now. Somehow I see this as a way to Jimmy a few novas away from the Glen. Could the Glen go all NF??? That's an interesting question. They could only put shields in maybe 700 1000s FG would probably get them last anyway.

I just wonder why the nova order is so small in terms of production. Is that a Nova request or cta doesn't have the money. By the end of the order they could be getting boatloads of Proterras. Who knows what Biden has up his sleeve.

Shannoncvpi · April 15, 2022

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Trouble is nova is so slow and the order makes them slower. You guys need protection now. Somehow I see this as a way to Jimmy a few novas away from the Glen. Could the Glen go all NF??? That's an interesting question. They could only put shields in maybe 700 1000s FG would probably get them last anyway.

I just wonder why the nova order is so small in terms of production. Is that a Nova request or cta doesn't have the money. By the end of the order they could be getting boatloads of Proterras. Who knows what Biden has up his sleeve.

The NF got the sheilds in them already been had them even way before covid its just the 6400's that was last to get em

Mr.NewFlyer1051 · April 15, 2022

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Trouble is nova is so slow and the order makes them slower. You guys need protection now. Somehow I see this as a way to Jimmy a few novas away from the Glen. Could the Glen go all NF??? That's an interesting question. They could only put shields in maybe 700 1000s FG would probably get them last anyway.

I just wonder why the nova order is so small in terms of production. Is that a Nova request or cta doesn't have the money. By the end of the order they could be getting boatloads of Proterras. Who knows what Biden has up his sleeve.

i’m iffy now……i feel like the 8350’s will go high crime areas wit new shields and your right FG is possible to become all NF’s so it would be give up 8231-8324 8343-8349 to like 77th for 103rd in exchange for either 1051-1205 (103rd) or 1206-1375 (77th)

BusHunter · April 15, 2022

1 minute ago, Shannoncvpi said:

The NF got the sheilds in them already been had them even way before covid its just the 6400's that was last to get em

No but were talking about the floor to almost ceiling shields like the 7900 debuted with.

Shannoncvpi · April 15, 2022

Just now, BusHunter said:

No but were talking about the floor to almost ceiling shields like the 7900 debuted with.

Aw I havent seen those yet dam fr they starting to put em on the NF cause I rarely use my shield depends on hoe I feel I might pull it & I might not if I'm doung a route that goes downtown I might pull it then but if I do a route that says in the hood I dont use it only time I really use it is if I get a novas you are forced to use em

BusHunter · April 15, 2022

2 minutes ago, Shannoncvpi said:

Aw I havent seen those yet dam fr they starting to put em on the NF cause I rarely use my shield depends on hoe I feel I might pull it & I might not if I'm doung a route that goes downtown I might pull it then but if I do a route that says in the hood I dont use it only time I really use it is if I get a novas you are forced to use em

I know I heard the story on the 7900s. Don't know if they will force you to use the new one probably not. They probably can't put the tech into it.

artthouwill · April 15, 2022

2 minutes ago, Mr.NewFlyer1051 said:

i’m iffy now……i feel like the 8350’s will go high crime areas wit new shields and your right FG is possible to become all NF’s so it would be give up 8231-8324 8343-8349 to like 77th for 103rd in exchange for either 1051-1205 (103rd) or 1206-1375 (77th)

It's not like FG doesn't serve any high crime areas. The 85 and 91 are 2 examples and a case could be made for the 78 and 81. So in order to give up all their Novas, they would have to receive the NFs with the new shields and dedicate those buses to the aforementioned 4 routes. However crime is citywide with downtown included. So I don't think robbing FG of its Nivas is the answer.

Mr.NewFlyer1051 · April 15, 2022

57 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

It's not like FG doesn't serve any high crime areas. The 85 and 91 are 2 examples and a case could be made for the 78 and 81. So in order to give up all their Novas, they would have to receive the NFs with the new shields and dedicate those buses to the aforementioned 4 routes. However crime is citywide with downtown included. So I don't think robbing FG of its Nivas is the answer.

81 definitely has its share of passing thru a few dangerous neighborhoods (ex: albany park and uptown) same goes for 78 but for some reason i can see FG being a all NF garage wit the 1000-1375 range

Shannoncvpi · April 15, 2022

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

I know I heard the story on the 7900s. Don't know if they will force you to use the new one probably not. They probably can't put the tech into it.

Yea the 79's you are forced to use them another reason why I try to adviod getting a nova cause I really only use the sheild when I go downtown but when I stay out in the hood I never use the sheild

artthouwill · April 15, 2022

51 minutes ago, Shannoncvpi said:

Yea the 79's you are forced to use them another reason why I try to adviod getting a nova cause I really only use the sheild when I go downtown but when I stay out in the hood I never use the sheild

Are you claustrophobic? I rarely encounter a driver who doesn't use their shield, be it CTA or Pace.

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