8350-series Nova LFS - Updates

[YoungBusLover]

Kedzie operators have to be punching the air right now because why Chicago but then again those moves may be in reaction to those defunct #600s at the garage.

[artthouwill]

34 minutes ago, Ghoul said:

Soooo 8547-48 somehow managed to sneak into Chicago Ave now ?

8547 70: Division 66 -856 5 (Chicago)

8548 157: Streeterville/Taylor 157 -854 5 (Chicago

 

On 9/24/2023 at 1:38 PM, artthouwill said:

I always thought 77th would get 8350s.   I do believe 74th will eventually get some also.  The question is whether K or C would get them?  My guess is C.  Obviously that means I believe P will not get any Novas but will continue to be all New Flyer at least until CTA figures out how they will replace the 4000 series artics. 

 

On 9/24/2023 at 2:17 PM, Busjack said:

You didn't  read the notice. It said:

So, the buses are there. Whether they are to be capriciously transferred out is anyone's guess, but the reason they are not now in service at K is because the operators need training on the Mobileye.

 

So it is appearing that my guess of C getting the new Novas was correct.  Regardless of what was alledgedged to be posted at K, to this point no new Novas in the 8500 range has appeared on any K routes.  Now we have to see if C will lose any of its upper numbered New Flyers, which I believe will be the case.

[Busjack]

2 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

Kedzie operators have to be punching the air right now because why Chicago but then again those moves may be in reaction to those defunct #600s at the garage.

Defunct? There are 4 on the tracker now. Tracker shows recent trips for 603. 604. 605, 608, 609, 614, 618, and 621. Not as many as there should be, but defunct?

 

[YoungBusLover]

5 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

 

 

So it is appearing that my guess of C getting the new Novas was correct.  Regardless of what was alledgedged to be posted at K, to this point no new Novas in the 8500 range has appeared on any K routes.  Now we have to see if C will lose any of its upper numbered New Flyers, which I believe will be the case.

They currently have 5 so far so time will tell.

8547    9/26/23, 3:46 PM    9/26/23, 4:46 PM    65    66 -856    C
8548    9/26/23, 3:46 PM    9/26/23, 4:46 PM    157    157 -854    C
8549    9/26/23, 4:11 PM    9/26/23, 4:46 PM    73    73 -853    C
8562    9/26/23, 4:36 PM    9/26/23, 4:46 PM    20    20 -856    C
8577    9/26/23, 3:41 PM    9/26/23, 4:46 PM    66    66 -859    C

[artthouwill]

5 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

Kedzie operators have to be punching the air right now because why Chicago but then again those moves may be in reaction to those defunct #600s at the garage.

Could be,  but CTA could have sent loaners to achieve that goal or if K was designated to get the Nocas, send the Novas to K and K send loaners to C.  Like I said before,  we will see if C will lose any buses, particularly the higher numbered New Flyers 

[YoungBusLover]

3 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Defunct? There are 4 on the tracker now. Tracker shows recent trips for 603. 604. 605, 608, 609, 614, 618, and 621. Not as many as there should be, but defunct?

 

I was referring to these 10, I've seen quite a handful at SS along with others sitting out on the back lot at C.

613    8/29/22    9/10/23, 8:25 PM    66    66 -805    C
607    2/12/22, 6:40 AM    8/15/23, 5:20 PM    66    66 -860    C
619    9/1/22, 7:50 AM    8/3/23, 9:07 PM    66    66 -864    C
602    3/23/21, 5:39 AM    8/3/23, 8:02 AM    66    66 -808    C
606    2/4/22    8/1/23, 2:52 AM    66    N66 -893    C
600    3/26/21, 5:38 AM    7/18/23, 12:51 PM    66    66 -802    C
615    9/16/22, 6:03 AM    7/3/23, 3:00 PM    66    66 -811    C
620    12/1/22, 5:10 AM    6/20/23, 12:08 PM    66    N66 -892    C
616    10/13/22, 10:20 AM    6/18/23, 2:33 AM    66    N66 -892    C
617    10/3/22, 6:40 AM    6/6/23, 5:37 AM    66    66 -803    C

[Busjack]

6 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

I was referring to these 10, I've seen quite a handful at SS along with others sitting out on the back lot at C.

613    8/29/22    9/10/23, 8:25 PM    66    66 -805    C
607    2/12/22, 6:40 AM    8/15/23, 5:20 PM    66    66 -860    C
619    9/1/22, 7:50 AM    8/3/23, 9:07 PM    66    66 -864    C
602    3/23/21, 5:39 AM    8/3/23, 8:02 AM    66    66 -808    C
606    2/4/22    8/1/23, 2:52 AM    66    N66 -893    C
600    3/26/21, 5:38 AM    7/18/23, 12:51 PM    66    66 -802    C
615    9/16/22, 6:03 AM    7/3/23, 3:00 PM    66    66 -811    C
620    12/1/22, 5:10 AM    6/20/23, 12:08 PM    66    N66 -892    C
616    10/13/22, 10:20 AM    6/18/23, 2:33 AM    66    N66 -892    C
617    10/3/22, 6:40 AM    6/6/23, 5:37 AM    66    66 -803    C

OK

[artthouwill]

43 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

I was referring to these 10, I've seen quite a handful at SS along with others sitting out on the back lot at C.

613    8/29/22    9/10/23, 8:25 PM    66    66 -805    C
607    2/12/22, 6:40 AM    8/15/23, 5:20 PM    66    66 -860    C
619    9/1/22, 7:50 AM    8/3/23, 9:07 PM    66    66 -864    C
602    3/23/21, 5:39 AM    8/3/23, 8:02 AM    66    66 -808    C
606    2/4/22    8/1/23, 2:52 AM    66    N66 -893    C
600    3/26/21, 5:38 AM    7/18/23, 12:51 PM    66    66 -802    C
615    9/16/22, 6:03 AM    7/3/23, 3:00 PM    66    66 -811    C
620    12/1/22, 5:10 AM    6/20/23, 12:08 PM    66    N66 -892    C
616    10/13/22, 10:20 AM    6/18/23, 2:33 AM    66    N66 -892    C
617    10/3/22, 6:40 AM    6/6/23, 5:37 AM    66    66 -803    C

That's a lot of Proterras out of service relative to the total number of Proterras in the fleet.  I wonder if any other manufacturer of electric buses are having issues?  I don't know if CTA will ever get the 6 electric Novas that were supposed to go to 103rd.  I haven't seen or heard anything about the Gillig electric that Pace has in its possession  supposedly at Plainfield.   New Flyer seems to be doing well with their electric artics, but I think CTA would rather not deal with New Flyer unless there's no other option.

In the meantime,  to @Busjackearlier point about bloat in the CTA fleet, it seems like the bloat is somewhat necessary.  C really hasn't missed the OOS Proterras to this point.  I'm sure they would rather have them in service  but it hasn't been detrimental for the operation.

[YoungBusLover]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

That's a lot of Proterras out of service relative to the total number of Proterras in the fleet.  I wonder if any other manufacturer of electric buses are having issues?  I don't know if CTA will ever get the 6 electric Novas that were supposed to go to 103rd.  I haven't seen or heard anything about the Gillig electric that Pace has in its possession  supposedly at Plainfield.   New Flyer seems to be doing well with their electric artics, but I think CTA would rather not deal with New Flyer unless there's no other option.

In the meantime,  to @Busjackearlier point about bloat in the CTA fleet, it seems like the bloat is somewhat necessary.  C really hasn't missed the OOS Proterras to this point.  I'm sure they would rather have them in service  but it hasn't been detrimental for the operation.

Yeah it isn't detrimental to service but after all this P/R over the past year or so about them, One would think that you'd see practically an entire fleet of Electric buses out by now almost. Ya can't preach going "Fully electric by 2040." while the beta stage fleet as I call it is sitting Idle every other week.Those charging stations to me are one of the reasons reasons why they haven't been running more in mass like they once did earlier in the spring and summer. It's hard to keep electric buses on the road when the quote on quote infrastructure can't even charge the buses properly let alone the buses themselves at times not being able to keep a charge for over 6 - 12 hours. 

[artthouwill]

27 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

Yeah it isn't detrimental to service but after all this P/R over the past year or so about them, One would think that you'd see practically an entire fleet of Electric buses out by now almost. Ya can't preach going "Fully electric by 2040." while the beta stage fleet as I call it is sitting Idle every other week.Those charging stations to me are one of the reasons reasons why they haven't been running more in mass like they once did earlier in the spring and summer. It's hard to keep electric buses on the road when the quote on quote infrastructure can't even charge the buses properly let alone the buses themselves at times not being able to keep a charge for over 6 - 12 hours. 

I agree.   I believe 2040 was right aggressive and optimistic for being fully electric.  I believe CTA should understand at least one additional set of diesel buses    if they wish to order a small number of electrical, that's dune.  Byr they need a comprehensive plan for charging infrastructure.

[Busjack]

Question: Since when the electric buses were 8350s? Or vice versa?

[YoungBusLover]

21 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Question: Since when the electric buses were 8350s? Or vice versa?

In this regard I bring up the #600s in relation to C getting #8500s over Kedzie which I initially thought at the time was next in line. I then speculated that maybe C is getting those #8500s as a buffer for the #600s fleet which isn't as active as it should be right now. However, I see where you're going in regards to staying on topic. 

[Sam92]

7 hours ago, Busjack said:

Question: Since when the electric buses were 8350s? Or vice versa?

 

7 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I agree.   I believe 2040 was right aggressive and optimistic for being fully electric.  I believe CTA should understand at least one additional set of diesel buses    if they wish to order a small number of electrical, that's dune.  Byr they need a comprehensive plan for charging infrastructure.

 

8 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

Yeah it isn't detrimental to service but after all this P/R over the past year or so about them, One would think that you'd see practically an entire fleet of Electric buses out by now almost. Ya can't preach going "Fully electric by 2040." while the beta stage fleet as I call it is sitting Idle every other week.Those charging stations to me are one of the reasons reasons why they haven't been running more in mass like they once did earlier in the spring and summer. It's hard to keep electric buses on the road when the quote on quote infrastructure can't even charge the buses properly let alone the buses themselves at times not being able to keep a charge for over 6 - 12 hours. 

 I think at some point the all electric deadline is gonna be pushed back. I gotta find the link to post; but basically if the conversion proves too troublesome, CTA and other TAs can ask for an extension of some sorts and let the Feds know that "we can't realistically" implement this by the date due to trouble getting infrastructure up to date in time etc. The article basically tells of similar issues in other places and says that if it all electric implementation collides with providing consistent service then CTA should prioritize service as they have a loophole and won't be penalized for not meeting the deadline. On a side note, even though the 600s aren't exactly getting rolled out at a fast clip it seems like an improvement over the 700s ??

 

[YoungBusLover]

Add 8561 9/27/23, 7:56 AM 9/27/23, 8:11 AM 74 74 -814 to C

[Busjack]

14 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

In this regard I bring up the #600s in relation to C getting #8500s over Kedzie which I initially thought at the time was next in line. I then speculated that maybe C is getting those #8500s as a buffer for the #600s fleet which isn't as active as it should be right now. However, I see where you're going in regards to staying on topic. 

I don't think there is any reason to freak over this, C still has 8418-8425, 8427. 8429, 8430, but that didn't mean that 103 wasn't getting any.

FG trading 65 buses with K means that a conscious decision was made, but also that K got some newer buses. Hence, there is no reason why "Kedzie operators have to be punching the air right now because why Chicago. " Maybe they have to complete training, or maybe riders on NP routes have reason to.

@andrethebusman99 explained who makes these decisions; maybe someone here can psychoanalyze him.

[YoungBusLover]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

I don't think there is any reason to freak over this, C still has 8418-8425, 8427. 8429, 8430, but that didn't mean that 103 wasn't getting any.

FG trading 65 buses with K means that a conscious decision was made, but also that K got some newer buses. Hence, there is no reason why "Kedzie operators have to be punching the air right now because why Chicago. " Maybe they have to complete training, or maybe riders on NP routes have reason to.

@andrethebusman99 explained who makes these decisions; maybe someone here can psychoanalyze him.

Chicago Ave getting #8350s never made any sense to me during the early stages of the deliveries and still doesn't to this day. If I was working out of K and getting shown that this training is mandatory on these brand new buses supposedly coming to the garage in the near future I would be punching the air right now because what is the purpose of training on something that isn't even here at this point in time. It took no more than a couple of months to train everyone at 77th during the pandemic on the artics we received. We're about to reach the 3 month mark soon as far as training goes on the 8500s and yet still no new equipment has popped up at K. Yet C receives 6 more along with 77th getting almost 22 more when neither one of those garages trained there operators on the same upgraded systems that K trained theirs on.  K and C are just about even on equipment being OOS at this point but to send almost all of FGs #82/8300s to K for #1600s while training operators on #8500s that haven't even popped up at the garage in revenue service just doesn't make much sense to me. Also in regards to training, Once the 1 hour training is completed that operator is good to go in regards to operating the new equipment. I don't want to seem like I'm overexaggerating my point here about all of this because you're right in regards @andrethebusman99 explaining how things are done at the top. However, even the decisions made from top aren't always the most logical in some aspects. ?

[Busjack]

6 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

Yet C receives 6 more along with 77th getting almost 22 more when neither one of those garages trained there operators on the same upgraded systems that K trained theirs on.

Then who let the buses out in passenger service there, if the drivers weren't trained? Were a few trained and only they get assigned those buses?

[YoungBusLover]

2 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Then who let the buses out in passenger service there, if the drivers weren't trained? Were a few trained and only they get assigned those buses?

That is the million dollar question I've pondered on since #8405 popped up at 77th last year along with #8362, #8440, #8446 that popped up at 74th when they were short on equipment. I remember the first day #8405 entered service and was working my run out on Halsted. I asked the operator if he was trained on the bus for the updated systems and he said no. So that led my mind to go all over the place. When I started getting #8405 along with these #8500s I wasn't stopped by sign-out asking if I was trained to operate this bus yet. So to me it just seems fishy that K,FG103rd and Possibly C trained its operators on the newer Novas but 74th and 77th didn't. 

[YoungBusLover]

Add two more to C, Now will C trade off a few Flyers? Time will tell. 

8579    9/27/23, 3:16 PM    9/27/23, 3:36 PM    66    66 -858
8569    9/27/23, 3:21 PM    9/27/23, 3:36 PM    65    66 -857

[Ghoul]

8508 has entered service on the 74

[Mr.NewFlyer1279]

10 extra buses at C.

8508, 8547 8548 8549 8561 8562 8569 8577 8578 8579

[Shannoncvpi]

3 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

That is the million dollar question I've pondered on since #8405 popped up at 77th last year along with #8362, #8440, #8446 that popped up at 74th when they were short on equipment. I remember the first day #8405 entered service and was working my run out on Halsted. I asked the operator if he was trained on the bus for the updated systems and he said no. So that led my mind to go all over the place. When I started getting #8405 along with these #8500s I wasn't stopped by sign-out asking if I was trained to operate this bus yet. So to me it just seems fishy that K,FG103rd and Possibly C trained its operators on the newer Novas but 74th and 77th didn't. 

I never did get trained on em either when they first hit C they just gave it to me to take it out & I trained weeks later 

[pudgym29]

I start here. I have sent a PM to @maths22 alerting him that the Authority is now accepting buses numbered higher than 8549.

He has not logged on here since June 2022. ?

Intriguingly, if you delve into the run history of individual buses section, these new arrivals are being detected. ?

Anyhow, - what I scribe here is that a while ago, I mildly chastised the Authority because of the eighteen new Nova 7900-series buses then assigned to Kedzie garage, they were not being assigned to the Owl runs on #60 Blue Island-26th, the sole Owl route the garage had. It seems to me currently that the Authority has actually come around to my vista. And not just at Kedzie, but systemwide. Late evening and Owl runs are showing a preponderance of new Novas; both the 7900s and the 8350s, on all garages' routes. I attribute this due to these Novas are now equipped with the full-height operator door to minimize the potential for operator abuse.

I believe this is why Chicago garage got a handful of 8350s - so that they could run late night & Owl runs on routes #20, #53, & #66 (and possibly #54 and #72). Thanks to preceding posts, I will get out of the abode more frequently to observe and photograph if these new 8550s are running on Cicero and #74 Fullerton.

[Busjack]

14 hours ago, pudgym29 said:

I start here. I have sent a PM to @maths22 alerting him that the Authority is now accepting buses numbered higher than 8549.

He has not logged on here since June 2022. ?

Intriguingly, if you delve into the run history of individual buses section, these new arrivals are being detected.

He once explained how this works. The "in Service" pulls various fields in the gps data, but the bus field is based on whatever list of buses he has.

On the other hand, the "Run History" pulls the bus number you enter. Apparently, the other fields for that bus still reside in the Clever Devices server (or Transitmaster for Pace).

@maths22 has his gmail address on the first page of his CTA Route Tracker site (but you can guess what it is).

[alphabetlore1044]

Add 4 more buses on  C

8553 : 9/28/2023, 3:40pm   9/28/2023, 6:00pm   37   37-852

8567 : 9/28/2023, 4:00pm  9/28/2023, 6:00pm  54B  54B-851

8568 : 9/28/2023, 3:20pm    9/28/2023, 6:00pm 66    66-858

8573 : 9/28/2023, 3:40pm   9/28/2023, 4:20pm 65     66-859